UAW's future: Givebacks or else

[Northstar]

UAW's future: Givebacks or else

Delphi starts clock ticking on rich wage, benefit packages across U.S. auto industry.


By Bryce G. Hoffman / The Detroit News

After decades of hard-fought victories at the bargaining table, the United Auto Workers union faces the prospect of unprecedented wage and benefit concessions at one of its largest employers. In addition to Delphi Corp., the clock may be ticking against workers' rich package of wages and benefits at other Detroit automakers , analysts say.

Compensation packages are worth more than $130,000 a year. That may put a smile on workers' faces, but the labor costs also give American automakers a $1,500-per-car disadvantage over their Japanese rivals.

"Everyone feels betrayed and stabbed in the back," said Bryan Stoner, 48, an electrician at a Delphi plant in Kokomo, Ind.

The UAW faces a difficult choice: accept the painful concessions or take its chances with a bankruptcy.

"What (Delphi's Chairman) Steve Miller has essentially asked to do is shred 40 years of gains and renege on the promises the company made to its workers," said Harley Shaiken, professor of labor relations at the University of California-Berkeley. "They may go for even more Draconian measures before a bankruptcy judge."

The filing marks the beginning of "Sherman's march across wages and benefits" throughout the automotive industry, Shaiken said.

"If the airline industry is any indication, we'll see it far sooner rather than later," he said Saturday. "This is a pivotal moment and could be a watershed for manufacturing (as a whole)."

UAW President Ron Gettelfinger vowed Saturday to protect the interest of workers and retirees. The UAW hasn't faced such a crisis since the recession of 1980-81, when Detroit automakers slashed thousands of jobs and Chrysler skirted bankruptcy. Meanwhile, the union's membership continues to drop.

"It really puts a tremendous amount of pressure on UAW management," said Joe Phillippi of AutoTrends Consulting Inc. in New Jersey. Without significant concessions from the union, Delphi said Saturday it is prepared to sell, consolidate or discontinue a substantial chunk of its U.S. manufacturing operations.

"If they acquiesce to the demands of Delphi, clearly that sends a signal to the rest of the unionized suppliers," Phillippi said. "They're going to want to get the same deal."

Daniel Mitchell, a labor expert at the University of California in Los Angeles, said any concessions the union gives to Delphi will likely become the outline for future bargaining sessions between the automakers and the UAW.

Continue reading: http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0.../A08-341864.htm

[CaddyXLR-V]

I'm just amazed that the union believed they could continue on like they have forever. Did they not see all of this coming?

[razoredge]

I'm just amazed that the union believed they could continue on like they have forever. Did they not see all of this coming?

[post="25764"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

What was that ?
The 4.4 billion losses at Fiat ?
The 7-8 million losses at Fuji ?
Not sure how much has been spent on saturin and Saab but its all been loss
Forgot what it cost to close Olds not to mention the sales losses
Perhaps they should have seen this coming

"Delphi's decision would be extremely disappointing under any circumstances, but it is all the more so in light of the company's announcement on Friday * just one day before filing bankruptcy -- that it had sweetened the severance packages for Delph's 21 most highly compensated executives because the old severance package was * as a Delphi spokesperson put it -- 'uncompetitive.'

Whos shoe which foot ?

[VenSeattle]

"Everyone feels betrayed and stabbed in the back," said Bryan Stoner, 48, an electrician at a Delphi plant in Kokomo, Ind.

The UAW faces a difficult choice: accept the painful concessions or take its chances with a bankruptcy.

"If they acquiesce to the demands of Delphi, clearly that sends a signal to the rest of the unionized suppliers," Phillippi said. "They're going to want to get the same deal."

Daniel Mitchell, a labor expert at the University of California in Los Angeles, said any concessions the union gives to Delphi will likely become the outline for future bargaining sessions between the automakers and the UAW.

[post="25756"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So the message becomes: "Go ahead... file for bankruptcy. We'll take our chances."

Delphi replied: "So be it."

[razoredge]

Wonder if Wagoner and Co would give back those big bonus's they got last year.........and the year before..........and the year before............and the year before...........and the year before..........and the year before...... and the year before?????????

[VenSeattle]

Wonder if Wagoner and Co would give back those big bonus's they got last year.........and the year before..........and the year before............and the year before...........and the year before..........and the year before...... and the year before?????????

[post="25795"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Why should they? GM was profitable then. Are the UAW members willing to give back their huge profit sharing checks that they received over the past several years? No... Why should they? GM was profitable then.

[razoredge]

Why should they? GM was profitable then. Are the UAW members willing to give back their huge profit sharing checks that they received over the past several years? No... Why should they? GM was profitable then.

[post="25796"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So Gm was profitable last year and the year before ?

[CaddyXLR-V]

What was that ?
The 4.4 billion losses at Fiat ?
The 7-8 million losses at Fuji ?
Not sure how much has been spent on saturin and Saab but its all been loss
Forgot what it cost to close Olds not to mention the sales losses
Perhaps they should have seen this coming
Whos shoe which foot ?

[post="25785"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That is a separate issue. We are talking about American car makers having a cost disadvantage even if the companies were run perfectly. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Even without those losses you mentioned GM would still be losing share, and still be at a disadvantage to the foreign competition. That is not sustainable.

[Northstar]

What was that ?
The 4.4 billion losses at Fiat ?
The 7-8 million losses at Fuji ?
Not sure how much has been spent on saturin and Saab but its all been loss
Forgot what it cost to close Olds not to mention the sales losses
Perhaps they should have seen this coming

[post="25785"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

How about the countless billions lost on healthcare?

How about $6,983,188,500 lost due to the cost disadvantage GM suffers vs. Toyota and Honda, etc, last year ALONE? Yes, alomst 7 BILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR.

[CaddyXLR-V]

How about the countless billions lost on healthcare?

How about $6,983,188,500 lost due to the cost disadvantage GM suffers vs. Toyota and Honda, etc, last year ALONE? Yes, alomst 7 BILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR.

[post="25828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

And rising. How much will it be next year, $7 billion? $8 billion? And a yearly $6.5 billion is much worse than a one time $4.4 billion cost.

[VenSeattle]

So Gm was profitable last year and the year before ?

[post="25809"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Are you saying GM wasn't? Check it out. GM has been running in the Red for the past two quarters. Not the past two years. Division by division is a different issue. Overall, GM has been in the Black up until this year's Q1 & Q2.

[razoredge]

Are you saying GM wasn't? Check it out. GM has been running in the Red for the past two quarters. Not the past two years. Division by division is a different issue. Overall, GM has been in the Black up until this year's Q1 & Q2.

[post="25839"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

So the losses in those quarters were from what ? Im wondering if the Fiat losses were thrown into this scenario to make it look so bad. Perhaps heating oil and other oil products used also added to this ?

[razoredge]

That is a separate issue. We are talking about American car makers having a cost disadvantage even if the companies were run perfectly. Does 2 wrongs make a right? Even without those losses you mentioned GM would still be losing share, and still be at a disadvantage to the foreign competition. That is not sustainable.

[post="25821"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

We've already discussed the "market share" smoke screen, last year was GM second largest volumn year ever.

Your two wrongs question could be asked of your own agenda. but you only want to cure one wrong and sweep the other under the carpet.

[razoredge]

How about the countless billions lost on healthcare?

How about $6,983,188,500 lost due to the cost disadvantage GM suffers vs. Toyota and Honda, etc, last year ALONE? Yes, alomst 7 BILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR.

[post="25828"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

"How about the countless billions lost on healthcare?"

Yes I agree 100%, this is why the country should be coming down hard on our health care and insurance industry. Even though health insurance is not a "loss".

"How about $6,983,188,500 lost due to the cost disadvantage GM suffers vs. Toyota and Honda, etc, last year ALONE? Yes, alomst 7 BILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR."

Wow, so now Ven just said GM was profitable last year yet you have a 7 billion dollar loss ? Interesting. Now is that the total health care cost at GM ? Interesting, I guess once again we are rallying for no health insurance what so ever, thereby eliminating this cost disadvantage ? Interesting. All this happened last year or was it first 2 quarters this year ?

[VenSeattle]

"How about $6,983,188,500 lost due to the cost disadvantage GM suffers vs. Toyota and Honda, etc, last year ALONE? Yes, alomst 7 BILLION DOLLARS IN ONE YEAR."

Wow, so now Ven just said GM was profitable last year yet you have a 7 billion dollar loss ? Interesting. Now is that the total health care cost at GM ? Interesting, I guess once again we are rallying for no health insurance what so ever, thereby eliminating this cost disadvantage ? Interesting. All this happened last year or was it first 2 quarters this year ?

[post="25871"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You fail to take into account that GMAC is apart of GM. GMAC has been carrying GM for awhile. But yes, GM as a global company was profitable last year.

2004 Annual Report:

Mixed Results in 2004

In 2004, GM earned net income of $3.6 billion excluding special items, or reported net income of $2.8 billion, on record revenues of approximately $193 billion. Solid figures, considering the tough competitive conditions in most of our markets around the globe. But overall, it was a year in which we did not take the step forward we were aiming for.

There were some noteworthy successes. GMAC reported annual earnings growth for the 10th consecutive year, and a record for the sixth year in a row, with a profit of $2.9 billion. GMAC also continued to restructure its balance sheet and diversify its funding sources, significantly reducing its risk to adverse credit rating developments.

Our global automotive operations had their second highest sales volume in GM’s history, with market share gains in three of our four regions around the world.

[Northstar]

The $7 billion is the disadvantage GM is against vs. it's competitors. If you multiply the number of vehicles GM sold last year by $1500 (the cost disadvantage GM has on every vehicle) then it ends up being $7 billion. Therefore, if you got rid of that (which is what GM is trying to do) then GM'd be making probably $7 billion this year. Also, keep in mind that GM's profit over the last 2-3 years would have been probably $6-7 billion more if it didn't have it's cost disadvantage.

[razoredge]

The $7 billion is the disadvantage GM is against vs. it's competitors. If you multiply the number of vehicles GM sold last year by $1500 (the cost disadvantage GM has on every vehicle) then it ends up being $7 billion. Therefore, if you got rid of that (which is what GM is trying to do) then GM'd be making probably $7 billion this year.

Also, keep in mind that GM's profit over the last 2-3 years would have been probably $6-7 billion more if it didn't have it's cost disadvantage.

[post="25882"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I gotta go look you up, somethings not making since here.

[CaddyXLR-V]

We've already discussed the "market share" smoke screen, last year was GM second largest volumn year ever.

Your two wrongs question could be asked of your own agenda. but you only want to cure one wrong and sweep the other under the carpet.

[post="25856"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Which if you read my post again, you will see the issue isnt marketshare. The issue is foreign competition being able to do anything GM does, but cheaper. Toyota making 9 billion a year, while GM is losing money. Volume doesnt mean anything if the real cost of cars keeps dropping, while foreign competition can absorb the cost, GM cant. If something isnt done about the cost American automakers face, the only thing the union workers will be able to hope for is that Toyota will be nice enough to hire some of them. There are only 2 choices. American car makers eliminate the cost disadvantage, either by going bankrupt, or recieving concessions from the union, or, say goodbye to American car makers. I can guarantee you, things will be much worse for everyone, if those costs aren't brought in line with the rest of the competition.

[razoredge]

Which if you read my post again, you will see the issue isnt marketshare. The issue is foreign competition being able to do anything GM does, but cheaper. Toyota making 9 billion a year, while GM is losing money. Volume doesnt mean anything if the real cost of cars keeps dropping, while foreign competition can absorb the cost, GM cant. If something isnt done about the cost American automakers face, the only thing the union workers will be able to hope for is that Toyota will be nice enough to hire some of them. There are only 2 choices. American car makers eliminate the cost disadvantage, either by going bankrupt, or recieving concessions from the union, or, say goodbye to American car makers. I can guarantee you, things will be much worse for everyone, if those costs aren't brought in line with the rest of the competition.

[post="25913"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Well I explained that no amount of "reduction" would be enough, shy of working for free. But you ignore that.

You keep insisting all health & retirement plans must be giving up..... this is your 7 billion.

You dont care that exec are and have been getting their pockets lined.

You dont care that the problem is the healthcare industry itself.

You want the auto workers put in check...but

not the healthcare workers
not the insurance industry
not the corporate leaders that have had the ultimate say in things
not our government for these highly unbalanced trade agreements

unfortuantely you dont see that the Japs have been playing a game of chess with our industries and our government has allowed this. Why, because rich American investers have been involved in it and have much to lose if our country did business like Japan does.

Just ignore that lads and keep your minds on the smoke screen that points to the guys on the bottom when the result of decades of corporate mismanagement and one sided government trade agreements come calling.

Id rather fix the whole picture.......wouldnt you ?

[razoredge]

So the losses in those quarters were from what ? Im wondering if the Fiat losses were thrown into this scenario to make it look so bad. Perhaps heating oil and other oil products used also added to this ?

[post="25853"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Still waiting on this one ?

steel cost ????? is it less or more now that we got rid of the American steel industries ? Well its more because of oil and China and shipping at any rate.

[Ghost Dog]

Why should they? GM was profitable then. Are the UAW members willing to give back their huge profit sharing checks that they received over the past several years? No... Why should they? GM was profitable then.

[post="25796"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Was Gm profitable? Or were they accounting Differently to prop up the stock?

[Fiero88]

Was  Gm profitable? Or were they accounting Differently to prop up the stock?

[post="25994"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Hey Razor let's sell everything we own and move to mexico and marry some one eligible, buy us a nice little plot and live high on the hog after we get back from our last little trip to the US of A. Where, while there, we will run up all our credit cards, max'm out, and send the money to mexico. Then declare our undieing love for our country and declare bankruptcy before we finally leave at last free at last.

tic/toc tic/toc