Buick and Lexus are tied for reliability

[maxximus1]

Buick ties Lexus for No. 1 in car reliability
Survey finds Detroit brands making headway against Japanese competitors

August 9 2007: 9:57 AM EDT | Link to Original Article @ CNNMoney

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- For the first time in 12 years, Toyota's Lexus luxury brand has to share its top rank in J.D. Power and Associates' annual Vehicle Dependability Study.

And it has to share it with an American car.

General Motors' Buick brand tied Lexus in the study, which measures the number of problems owners experience with their cars after three years of ownership.

Following Lexus and Buick in the rankings were GM's Cadillac luxury brand, Ford's Mercury brand and Honda's Honda brand.

Toyota's mass-market Toyota brand ranked sixth.

"Consumers don't necessarily need to pay premium prices to obtain high quality and dependability," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis for J.D. Power and Associates.

"With three non-premium nameplates - Buick, Honda and Mercury - ranking within the top five," he said, "and particularly with Buick tying with Lexus for the top rank, consumers seeking a vehicle with strong dependability have good choices at various price levels."

J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 53,000 original owners of 2004 model year vehicles.

Owners of the top-ranked Lexus and Buick vehicles experienced 145 problems per 100 vehicles. Owners of second-ranked Cadillac vehicles experienced 162 problems per 100 vehicles.

The lowest-ranking brand was Land Rover, Ford's European luxury SUV brand. Land Rover owners experienced 398 problems per 100 vehicles, according to the survey.

J.D. Power and Associates also ranked specific vehicles within their respective categories. The top-ranked sub-compact car, for example, was the Scion xA from Toyota's youth-oriented Scion brand.

The top-ranked compact car was the Honda Civic and the top-ranked Sporty car was the Mazda Miata.

The Chevrolet SSR, a low-slung convertible pickup, and the Ford Mustang tied as the most dependable midsize sporty cars, and the Ford Crown Victoria ranked as the most dependable large car.

Lexus vehicles topped five categories, more than any other brand. Lexus had the top-ranked premium SUV, large premium SUV, premium sporty car, large premium car and midsize premium car. Toyota's Toyota brand topped four categories.

-----------------

Gotta love it!

http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa...dex.htm?cnn=yes

[Sixty8panther]

Land Rover is last.... again.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Very good news indeed. Thank you Maxximus. These parts of the article I liked are highlighted in bold:

Buick ties Lexus for No. 1 in car reliability

Survey finds Detroit brands making headway against Japanese competitors.

August 9 2007: 3:56 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- For the first time in 12 years, Toyota's Lexus luxury brand has to share its top rank in J.D. Power and Associates' annual Vehicle Dependability Study.

And it has to share it with an American car.

General Motors' Buick brand tied Lexus in the study, which measures the number of problems owners experience with their cars after three years of ownership.

Following Lexus and Buick in the rankings were GM's Cadillac luxury brand, Ford's Mercury brand and Honda's Honda brand.

Toyota's mass-market Toyota brand ranked sixth.

"Consumers don't neccessarily need to pay premium prices to obtain high quality and dependability," said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis for J.D. Power and Associates.

"With three non-premium nameplates - Buick, Honda and Mercury - ranking within the top five," he said, "and particularly with Buick tying with Lexus for the top rank, consumers seeking a vehicle with strong dependability have good choices at various price levels."

J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 53,000 original owners of 2004 model year vehicles.

Owners of the top-ranked Lexus and Buick vehicles experienced 145 problems per 100 vehicles. Owners of second-ranked Cadillac vehicles experienced 162 problems per 100 vehicles.

The lowest-ranking brand was Land Rover, Ford's European luxury SUV brand. Land Rover owners experienced 398 problems per 100 vehicles, according to the survey.

J.D. Power and Associates also ranked specific vehicles within their respective categories. The top-ranked sub-compact car, for example, was the Scion xA from Toyota's youth-oriented Scion brand.

The top-ranked compact car was the Honda Civic and the top-ranked "Sporty car" was the Mazda Miata.

The Chevrolet SSR, a low-slung convertible pickup, and the Ford Mustang tied as the most depenible midsize sporty cars, and the Ford Crown Victoria ranked as the most dependable large car.

Lexus vehicles topped five categories, more than any other brand. Lexus had the top-ranked premium SUV, large premium SUV, premium sporty car, large premium car and midsize premium car. Toyota's Toyota brand topped four categories.

2007 Nameplate Ranking

Problems per 100 Vehicles

Buick 145

Lexus 145

Cadillac 162

Mercury 168

Honda 169

Toyota 178

BMW 182

Lincoln 182

Subaru 192

Oldsmobile 196

Jaguar 197

Acura 207

Mercedes-Benz 212

Infiniti 215

Industry Average 216

Jeep 219

Pontiac 220

Scion 220

Ford 221

GMC 222

Chevrolet 226

Hyundai 228

Mitsubishi 228

Volvo 230

Audi 234

Dodge 236

HUMMER 242

MINI 247

Chrysler 249

Porsche 252

Nissan 274

Saturn 274

Kia 288

Mazda 289

Volkswagen 298

Saab 319

Isuzu 322

Suzuki 324

Land Rover 398

Top Three Models per Segment

Car Segments

Sub-Compact Car

Highest Ranked: Scion xA

Hyundai Accent

Chevrolet Aveo

Compact Car

Highest Ranked: Honda Civic

Toyota Prius

Toyota Corolla

Compact Sporty Car

Highest Ranked: Mazda Miata

Mitsubishi Lancer/Lancer Sportback

Toyota Celica

Midsize Sporty Car

Highest Ranked:

Chevrolet SSR (tie)

Ford Mustang (tie)

Toyota Solara

Midsize Car

Highest Ranked: Buick Century

Buick Regal

Mercury Sable

Large Car

Highest Ranked: Ford Crown Victoria

Mercury Grand Marquis

Buick Park Avenue

Compact Premium Sporty Car

Highest Ranked: Honda S2000

BMW Z4

Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class

Entry Premium Car

Highest Ranked: Infiniti I35

Cadillac CTS

Lexus IS 300/IS 300 SportCross

Midsize Premium Car

Highest Ranked: Lexus GS 300/GS 430

Acura RL

Lexus ES 330

Large Premium Car

Highest Ranked: Lexus LS 430

Lincoln Town Car

Cadillac DeVille

Premium Sporty Car

Highest Ranked: Lexus SC 430

Ford Thunderbird

Chevrolet Corvette

NOTE: Models with multiple trim levels are combined for ranking purposes.

Top Three Models per Segment

Truck / Multi-Activity Vehicle (MAV) Segments

Compact MAV

Highest Ranked: Toyota RAV4

Honda CR-V

Honda Element

Midsize MAV

Highest Ranked: Oldsmobile Bravada

Buick Rainier

Toyota 4Runner

Large MAV

Highest Ranked: Toyota Sequoia

GMC Yukon

Chevrolet Suburban

Large Pickup

Highest Ranked: Toyota Tundra

Ford F-150 Heritage/F-150 Lightning

Ford F-150 LD

Midsize Pickup

Highest Ranked: Toyota Tacoma

Ford Ranger

Mazda B-Series

Van

Highest Ranked: Oldsmobile Silhouette

Mercury Monterey

Honda Odyssey

Midsize Premium MAV

Highest Ranked: Lexus GX 470

Lexus RX 300

Infiniti FX-Series

Large Premium MAV

Highest Ranked: Lexus LX 470

Toyota Land Cruiser

Cadillac Escalade EXT

NOTE: Models with multiple trim levels are combined for ranking purposes.

Edited August 9, 2007 by NINETY EIGHT REGENCY

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

That Crown Victoria may be outdated and have a funny looking new grille for 2008, but it is dependable.

[buickguy]

GM needs to put this in ads, pronto.

[Drew Dowdell]

GM needs to put this in ads, pronto.

What, the top ranked vehicles are cars that GM canceled already?

[ToniCipriani]

Hmm... Buick is ahead of Cadillac... interesting.

[Z-06]

This is a good news!

And the import humpers say that the $h!SAN has good quality. Man it is lingering at the bottom.

Saab is a bummer when it comes to quality, and the 2004 Saturines were not good either.

I think 2004 was a time when GM had some real dogs as their products before their transformation began.

Too bad, people will not know till 2009 how bad Toys were last year.

[VenSeattle]

Hmm... Buick is ahead of Cadillac... interesting.

If memory serves me, Buick usually is.

This is excellent news, but one line urks me:

"With three non-premium nameplates - Buick, Honda and Mercury - ranking within the top five," he said, "and particularly with Buick tying with Lexus for the top rank, consumers seeking a vehicle with strong dependability have good choices at various price levels."

It explicitly removes any market association between Lexus and Buick, despite Lucerne CXS/Super compares to the ES350 and the Enclave compares to the RX350. Buick's warranty is also just as competitive. GM needs to work harder at pushing Buick as a premium brand, and not a competitor to Honda.

(Yes I've kept up on the 4-sp/3800 argument in the other topics... true enough, but Buick's product offerings cover higher ground than non-premium competitors. Buick will have only premium offerings within 3 years. Hopefully the press will be able to distinguish Buick's return as a real premium brand.)

[The O.C.]

If memory serves me, Buick usually is.

This is excellent news, but one line urks me:

It explicitly removes any market association between Lexus and Buick, despite Lucerne CXS/Super compares to the ES350 and the Enclave compares to the RX350. Buick's warranty is also just as competitive. GM needs to work harder at pushing Buick as a premium brand, and not a competitor to Honda.

(Yes I've kept up on the 4-sp/3800 argument in the other topics... true enough, but Buick's product offerings cover higher ground than non-premium competitors. Buick will have only premium offerings within 3 years. Hopefully the press will be able to distinguish Buick's return as a real premium brand.)

Yeah....it is interesting the article referred to Buick as a "non-premium" brand. But right now, that's what it is.....with the exception of Enclave.

However, the reliability ratings don't surprise me. GM is building totally reliable products now. (If there's an area where they still fall behind the competition, it's not "reliability"....it's perceived quality, fit-and-finish, and material choices.)

I've just turned 20K in the CTS and it's been flawless with two exceptions.......1) key fob that works intermittently and 2) nasty creak/groan somewhere up in the I.P near where it connects with the A-pillar.

Both are irritating.....and dealer won't replace my key fob because it "magically" works everytime I'm in for service....and, naturally, I live with the creak/groan every day.....except when I'm in for service.....(I can't believe how true Murphy's Law is....)

Other than that, the car is mechanically flawless. My only one gripe is poor fuel economy. Over 20K miles, I've averaged between 17-19mpg....with significant freeway miles. I don't drive that aggressively either....and cruise is set every day at 70mph on the way to work. It's really disappointing....but I've convinced myself that the gearing in the 6-speed manual must be significantly different that it gets worse gas mileage than the (probably) economy-tuned 5-speed auto.

Still love the car though! Still would be tough for me to trade up to an '08.....

[smk4565]

JD Power should go back to the 4 year study, rather than the 3 year they do now. 3 years isn't that long term. Or perhaps do a 3 year and a 6 year, since those that lease ususally do 3 years, but people that buy keep a car 5-6 years usually.

Good to see Cadillac in their perennial top 5 position, Cadillac needs to advertise that, and advertise the SRX's success in magazine reviews more. GM only advertises brand new product, or the Impala and Silverado due to volume, and they rarely push the good stuff.

Chevy dropped, they were above average last year I think, that should be a concern for GM, because Chevy will get compared with Honda and Toyota. I don't think where Buick finishes on this list affects it sales that much.

[smk4565]

I think the sign of well built car is one that still runs well and functions close to new when it has over 100k miles on it. A great car will run over 200k miles I think, Cadillacs are built to last like that, they run forever. Lexus is similar. I am not convinced yet that Buick and Mercury are that level, even though they perform well for the first 3 years.

[AxelTheRed]

Watch out, Lexus. Better cars are being built.

[VenSeattle]

JD Power should go back to the 4 year study, rather than the 3 year they do now. 3 years isn't that long term. Or perhaps do a 3 year and a 6 year, since those that lease ususally do 3 years, but people that buy keep a car 5-6 years usually.

Good to see Cadillac in their perennial top 5 position, Cadillac needs to advertise that, and advertise the SRX's success in magazine reviews more. GM only advertises brand new product, or the Impala and Silverado due to volume, and they rarely push the good stuff.

Chevy dropped, they were above average last year I think, that should be a concern for GM, because Chevy will get compared with Honda and Toyota. I don't think where Buick finishes on this list affects it sales that much.

I think the sign of well built car is one that still runs well and functions close to new when it has over 100k miles on it. A great car will run over 200k miles I think, Cadillacs are built to last like that, they run forever. Lexus is similar. I am not convinced yet that Buick and Mercury are that level, even though they perform well for the first 3 years.

Sorry to hear that you are apparently disappointed in Buick's positioning, but this isn't anything new. Buick has been in the top percentages for years. My Mother holds on to her Buicks longer than I do and she does not experience an abrupt increase in problems compared to my personal experience. And if you think these type of headlines go unnoticed, you're wrong. Three people in my office made a point to mention they saw and read about this today.

As for JD Power's VDS study - JD Power changed the study for several valid reasons.

- They're studying new cars. By the time a vehicle turns 6 years old or hits 100,000 miles the vehicle is no longer manufactured and is half a generation into its replacement. That particular vehicle's reliability holds little relevance to those buying new or even certified pre-owned.

- They only survey original owners. That pool of buyers becomes pretty shallow at 4 or even 6 years into a car's life.

- So many unpredictable variables impact a car throughout its life that have nothing to do the manufacturer of the vehicle. Buyers tend to take their cars religiously to the dealer for service, maintenance, and repairs while the vehicle is under warranty but that percentage degrades considerably after 3 years when most warranties have expired. You can not hold the manufacturer accountable when majority of the vehicles are not being maintained according to manufacturer recommendation.

- Once again, most of the used car market is made up of 3-6 year old vehicles which that market is not the core purpose of this study. Anyone purchasing a pre-owned car must take into account all possible circumstances despite which manufacturer it came from. Some of the worst built vehicles could be immaculately maintained and last for decades while the best built vehicle would last only a few years without proper care or maintenance.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Congrats to Buick and all the people that build them!

[steve333]

>Midsize Car

Highest Ranked: Buick Century

Buick Regal<

Smart move changing names, GM. Now you have no cars that match up.

Wagoner is an idiot.

Notice the park Avenue is there also.

[-Camaro-]

It doesn't seem right that Buick and Mercury are ahead of Cadillac and Lincoln...

[frogger]

Did they stuff ballot boxes at the old age homes?

[cletus8269]

Land Rover is last.... again.

holy crap, i'd never buy one of those things after talkin to one of the spine surgeons at the hospital i work at. its 2 yrs old and its in and out of the shop once a month, why he doesnt just sell it i have no clue... not like he is strapped for cash.

[bobo]

Good news for Buick.

Common thread among most of the highest ranked vehicles were that they were near the end of their builds, when most of the quality bugs should have been worked out.

[Dsuupr]

Take note; the GM divisions that did not rank well have the cars that we all know are not known for decent quality in 2004. Example; Chevrolet had, Cavalier, Blazer & the Astro (though lasts for many miles, tended to have a fair amount of little problems). In 2 years you will see the vehicles that have caused GM headaches in those reports no longer included.

Congrats GM. Keep up the good work.

[thegriffon]

If memory serves me, Buick usually is.

This is excellent news, but one line urks me:

It explicitly removes any market association between Lexus and Buick, despite Lucerne CXS/Super compares to the ES350 and the Enclave compares to the RX350. Buick's warranty is also just as competitive. GM needs to work harder at pushing Buick as a premium brand, and not a competitor to Honda.

(Yes I've kept up on the 4-sp/3800 argument in the other topics... true enough, but Buick's product offerings cover higher ground than non-premium competitors. Buick will have only premium offerings within 3 years. Hopefully the press will be able to distinguish Buick's return as a real premium brand.)

If the Lucerne was the same size as the ES350, and the Enclave the same size as the RX350, that would be a valid argument. However they are in fact much miuch bigger. The Lucerne needs to be in the same class as the LS460 to be considered a "premium" sedan on par with Lexus, and the Enclave at least as expensive as similarly-sized Audi Q7. Even the LaCrosse is a bit on the large size to be compared directly to the ES350.

[buickguy]

GM is talking about this on the gm fastlane blog

[Robert Hall]

Good to see Buick do so well.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Good news for Buick.

Common thread among most of the highest ranked vehicles were that they were near the end of their builds, when most of the quality bugs should have been worked out.

I checked out JD Power's archives of this survey going back to 2001 (1998 M/Y Cars) and the Century was still on top, Regal runner up (for every single one). LeSabre and/or Park Avenue shared top spot for Full Size for a good chunk of that too.

[mustang84]

Chevy dropped, they were above average last year I think, that should be a concern for GM, because Chevy will get compared with Honda and Toyota. I don't think where Buick finishes on this list affects it sales that much.

Chevy didn't actually drop, it's just that others shot past them. They improved by 15 defects per 100 vehicles.

Interesting to note that Lexus went down, as did Acura by a lot. Mercury also dropped some.

Improvements in number of problems by brand

Buick -8

Lexus +9

Cadillac -1

Mercury +17

Honda -24

Toyota -1

BMW -30

Lincoln -38

Subaru -40

Oldsmobile -28

Jaguar -13

Acura +23

Mercedes-Benz -28

Infiniti 0

Jeep -45

Pontiac -12

Scion --

Ford -3

GMC -17

Chevrolet -15

2007 vs. 2006

Edited August 10, 2007 by mustang84

[pow]

It isn't surprising to see Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Toyota, Acura, and Honda up there... what is surprising is Jaguar, Mercedes, and Mercury, especially since Ford is below industry average. What's so special about those Mountaineers..

[ZL-1]

Maybe Mountaineer owners complain less?

[trinacriabob]

Common thread among most of the highest ranked vehicles were that they were near the end of their builds, when most of the quality bugs should have been worked out.

True.

And, in response to Ven's comment above, Cadillac has more things to go wrong, considering the number of simpler LaCrosses and Lucernes that help kick Buick up a little bit. I am sure that a lot of the problems are in the more esoteric accessories.

Incidentally, back to my prolonged W body acquisition, I showed the THREE to my Mom and she liked the LaCrosse the best. She said it was more timeless.

Also, as I drove down the length of Oregon yesterday into NorCal, I was paralleling a Park Avenue (of vintage similar to that of Ven's) but in the pearl white extra cost paint. I was relieved to see a "zipper head" type lady (Cher look alike, kind of earthy), driving this car, with 2 kids in the back and no bumper stickers. She would have looked quite at home in a Subaru, yet she was piloting a P.A., and this put a smile on my face. The earthy crunchy liberals are so fixated that a foreign nameplate MUST be better, thereby adding to their packaged approach to life. I think that, even if you rammed these studies in their faces, they would still keep buying those brands appropriate to their image.

[smk4565]

If the Lucerne was the same size as the ES350, and the Enclave the same size as the RX350, that would be a valid argument. However they are in fact much miuch bigger. The Lucerne needs to be in the same class as the LS460 to be considered a "premium" sedan on par with Lexus, and the Enclave at least as expensive as similarly-sized Audi Q7. Even the LaCrosse is a bit on the large size to be compared directly to the ES350.

Buicks are just big, the cars are based on platforms that are 12-18 years old so they are the same size as the cars that were built 12-18 years ago. While most other American cars downsized, and the Accrod-Camry grew and they all met in the middle.

ES350 is 191 inches long (Lexus GS is actually smaller), LS460 is 198 inches long

LaCrosse is 198 inches long, Lucerne is 204 inches long

[smk4565]

I was thinking of the initial quality study I think when I said Chevy was above average. I see they were below average last year in dependability but slowing improving. I hope they can get above average in the long term test. They are the #1 American brand, if they look good, it helps American cars in general.

[mustang84]

It isn't surprising to see Lexus, Buick, Cadillac, Toyota, Acura, and Honda up there... what is surprising is Jaguar, Mercedes, and Mercury, especially since Ford is below industry average. What's so special about those Mountaineers..

A lot of it is probably due to Ford trucks with the 6.0L Powerstroke. It's also probably why both Chevrolet and Ford are lower...they have many more truck sales than brands like Mercury or Buick, and trucks tend to take more of a beating so they suffer more problems.

Likewise, the more Tundras Toyota sells, the farther I expect to see it drop down the list.

Edited August 10, 2007 by mustang84

[GXT]

As for the person who commented about the deck being stacked with olde people... I saw a study that showed that old and young people typically repair their cars less. Makes sense. That is one reason why some of these "old person" brands (Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Lexus) do so well on this study. It might also explain why BMW and Mercedes do so well even though they are not really reliable vehicles.

Finally, it might also explain why the Oldsmobile Silhouette made number 1 (19/20) but the near identical Venture (15/20) and Montana (14/20) didn't manage to make 2 or 3. Still, it is strange that the Silhouette was some 35% "more dependable" than the Montana. In fact, the Montana was one of the worst.

Anybody have a link to JD Power's methodology for this study? Is it as bogus as the IQS?

Edited August 10, 2007 by GXT

[Flybrian]

If anything, older folks fix their car more and complain more about problems.

[Cananopie]

I love it when people desperately clamor to find the "loophole" that Buick slipped through because it couldn't possibly be as reliable as the beloved untouchable Toyota Brand...

But Toyota/Lexus should get used to this, they're about to be the #1 company and they have to shell out more vehicles than the rest, and with that, naturally, comes more problems in a vehicle. There is an ebb and flow to the automotive industry and when you're the biggest brand you're going to get the most heat and produce the most cars which will naturally turn people away to those brands that can pay more attention to what they're creating instead of firing out car after car like Toyota is really starting to do.

If theres a loophole it's how die-hard in love Toyota consumers are about their vehicles being the best and most reliable strictly because they're the stereotypical Asian marketing brand which can build no wrong. People buy Toyotas (and Lexi) because they're generally dead set on the car being as good as gold, bulletproof, and will never ever break down... but that image is starting to dissipate now that it's becoming Americas bulk company.

[ToniCipriani]

As for the person who commented about the deck being stacked with olde people... I saw a study that showed that old and young people typically repair their cars less. Makes sense. That is one reason why some of these "old person" brands (Buick, Oldsmobile, Cadillac, Lexus) do so well on this study. It might also explain why BMW and Mercedes do so well even though they are not really reliable vehicles.

Finally, it might also explain why the Oldsmobile Silhouette made number 1 (19/20) but the near identical Venture (15/20) and Montana (14/20) didn't manage to make 2 or 3. Still, it is strange that the Silhouette was some 35% "more dependable" than the Montana. In fact, the Montana was one of the worst.

Anybody have a link to JD Power's methodology for this study? Is it as bogus as the IQS?

There IS a difference between the vans. Different brands tend to get slightly different quality in the parts.

Back when the J-Bodies were built in Lordstown, the Sunfires tend to get better materials than the Cavaliers.

[cyclonic]

Congrats to Buick on this one! As much as the brand confuses me, its good to see them do well. Lets hope GM seizes on it and heavily promotes this.

[CARBIZ]

There IS a difference between the vans. Different brands tend to get slightly different quality in the parts.

Back when the J-Bodies were built in Lordstown, the Sunfires tend to get better materials than the Cavaliers.

Total hogwash. Same plastic parts. They were completely interchangeable. You can take almost any part off a Cavalier and put it on a Sunfire and vice versa.

The Silhouettes were not sold in a RWB version, nor were their any 'value vans' sold. Demographics, plain and simple. A family of 6 is going to trash their $23k Valu Van, whereas the wealthier couple who bought their Silhouette for $35k will treat it better. This is the same reason there are so many Impala SS's on the road from the 1960s, while all the Chevy wagons are all rusted and gone. Same metal, same parts, just treated differently by their owners.

[A Horse With No Name]

Total hogwash. Same plastic parts. They were completely interchangeable. You can take almost any part off a Cavalier and put it on a Sunfire and vice versa.

The Silhouettes were not sold in a RWB version, nor were their any 'value vans' sold. Demographics, plain and simple. A family of 6 is going to trash their $23k Valu Van, whereas the wealthier couple who bought their Silhouette for $35k will treat it better. This is the same reason there are so many Impala SS's on the road from the 1960s, while all the Chevy wagons are all rusted and gone. Same metal, same parts, just treated differently by their owners.

Exactly.

Chris

[VenSeattle]

The Silhouettes were not sold in a RWB version, nor were their any 'value vans' sold. Demographics, plain and simple. A family of 6 is going to trash their $23k Valu Van, whereas the wealthier couple who bought their Silhouette for $35k will treat it better. This is the same reason there are so many Impala SS's on the road from the 1960s, while all the Chevy wagons are all rusted and gone. Same metal, same parts, just treated differently by their owners.

Bingo... although it's well known Buick does receive a higher grade of materials (LaCrosse to Grand Prix; Park Avenue to Bonneville; Rainier to TrailBlazer)... Mature buyers (people who have owned multiple new cars) know how to better care for them than some 16 year old in a Scion or Pontiac. It's just reality.

[ellives]

>Midsize Car

Highest Ranked: Buick Century

Buick Regal<

Smart move changing names, GM. Now you have no cars that match up.

Wagoner is an idiot.

Notice the park Avenue is there also.

If he is, he obviously has company....

[cire]

Congratulations, Buick and GM! You need to grasp this foothold and market the heck out of it!

Now that proof exists that the vehicles possess initial quality, it is time for the company to retain that position while it repositions its future products for success in the near luxury market.

I am also tired of people looking for the loopholes in the results of this study. GM is fighting for its survival; any good news should be celebrated and used to create motivation for GM to strive harder in the future. I just hope the future products really match the buying public's perceptions of near luxury vehicles.