What brands need to leave the US market?

[Camino LS6]

We all know that the US market is VERY overcrowded with brands, so leaving the big ones out of it (Toyota and Honda aren't going anywhere) what brands need to disappear? Think of the ones that simply drain away sales from more viable brands and don't have much going for themselves.

Who needs to go?

And, what would be a "good mix" afterward?

[Robert Hall]

Mitsubishi seems barely there... not sure what value Kia adds (seems largely redundant w/ Hyundai). And what about Suzuki and Isuzu? Invisible..

I don't see any of the European brands leaving, though Saab seems to be barely a blip on the radar these days..

[Drew Dowdell]

Everything except Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, and Saab.

I mean really..... what else could you possibly want?

What's good for GM is good for the country.

[Camino LS6]

Everything except Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn, Oldsmobile, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, and Saab.

I mean really..... what else could you possibly want?

What's good for GM is good for the country.

C'mon, be serious. I saw that you responded and I was expecting a well thought out list. :AH-HA_wink:

[Flybrian]

What Drew said.

But realistically, Mitsubishi, Volkswagen, and Kia need to leave. Make way for Alfa-Romeo and Citroen.

[Camino LS6]

Trying to be objective here, so this is a list of possibles.

Mitsubishi

Kia

VW

Saab

Lincoln

Mercury

Scion

Isuzu

Pontiac

Buick

Hummer

Land Rover

Suzuki

Volvo

Subaru

Maserati

Infiniti

[Screaming Trees]

Mitsubishi

Kia

Isuzu

Suzuki

Scion

Saturn

Infiniti

Land Rover

Volvo

Lotus

Jaguar

Acura

They should probably go

Edited July 20, 2007 by Screaming Trees

[Camino LS6]

I think this group needs a hard look:

Lincoln

Mercury

Land Rover

Volvo

Jaguar

These are the "no-brainers":

Mitsubishi

Suzuki

Kia

Isuzu (except medium duty trucks)

On the cusp:

Volvo

Saab

Mercury

Scion

VW

Land Rover

Maserati

Pontiac (trying to be objective here, I don't think this would be wise)

EDIT: Can't really list Pontiac without listing Buick in this category. If Doomsday were upon us, I could see making Buick China -only and having Pontiac do Luxury as well as Performance - it wouldn't be too much of a stretch as they have done that before. No flames please, I don't think this is necessary.

[VenSeattle]

I'm listing them in my personal order of probability... give or take ten positions... lol.

Import Brands (regardless of ownership) & Domestic Brands (regardless of ownership)

Import Brands:

1 ) Isuzu - obvious

2 ) Mitsubishi - obvious

3 ) Volkswagen - mostly obvious

4 ) Maybach - rolling eyes at the obvious

5 ) Suzuki - low market penetration, poor retention of customers, and low satisfaction coupled with everyone wanting in on the compact/sub/micro-compact market. They’re getting squeezed out.

6 ) Jaguar/Land Rover - If they're sold, who can guess?

7 ) Audi - Have you checked their sales? if VW leaves, I can picture Audi planning a similar exit strategy.

8 ) Saab - GM is very stubborn. The brand doesn't even have a pulse at the moment, but GM will continue to pump cash into it

Domestic Brands:

1 ) Chrysler/Dodge tie for first - Despite being sold and taken private, their operations are extremely unprofitable. If the turn-around fails, there will be no salvation for Chrysler and Dodge. Jeep would be sold to the highest bidder.

2 ) Pontiac - With no real international presence and waning market appeal locally, the last Pontiac-Attack may be of the heart. I feel it would be more sensible to invest in premium touring compact and mid-size vehicles and sell them under Buick in America and China instead of fighting budget constraints to keep them affordable under the US-only Pontiac. Let Chevrolet sell affordable versions globally to help control costs. Although, see Saab’s description about GM being stubborn.

3 ) Mercury - Once the crown jewels are sold, Ford may end up pursuing what several auto-analysts have suggested and follow a Toyota approach: two divisions... Mainstream & luxury - Ford & Lincoln. (Ford has a controlling stake in Mazda, but doesn't own it.)

4 ) Buick - Regardless of how I feel, there's no guarantee Buick will survive in America unless GM becomes serious about saving its founding brand. However, China keeps Buick on life support at the moment.

[chevelle454]

I would love for all asian cars to leave, especially Toyota and Honda, Euro cars can stay even though I don't care them could stay except for VW, Volvo and BMW, but we all know that will never happen.

So these could be realistc

Mitsubishi

Isuzu

Kia

Suzuki

Mercury

VW

Land Rover

Acura

[Camino LS6]

I'm listing them in my personal order of probability... give or take ten positions... lol.

Import Brands (regardless of ownership) & Domestic Brands (regardless of ownership)

Import Brands:

1 ) Isuzu - obvious

2 ) Mitsubishi - obvious

3 ) Volkswagen - mostly obvious

4 ) Maybach - rolling eyes at the obvious

5 ) Suzuki - low market penetration, poor retention of customers, and low satisfaction coupled with everyone wanting in on the compact/sub/micro-compact market. They’re getting squeezed out.

6 ) Jaguar/Land Rover - If they're sold, who can guess?

7 ) Audi - Have you checked their sales? if VW leaves, I can picture Audi planning a similar exit strategy.

8 ) Saab - GM is very stubborn. The brand doesn't even have a pulse at the moment, but GM will continue to pump cash into it

Domestic Brands:

1 ) Chrysler/Dodge tie for first - Despite being sold and taken private, their operations are extremely unprofitable. If the turn-around fails, there will be no salvation for Chrysler and Dodge. Jeep would be sold to the highest bidder.

2 ) Pontiac - With no real international presence and waning market appeal locally, the last Pontiac-Attack may be of the heart. I feel it would be more sensible to invest in premium touring compact and mid-size vehicles and sell them under Buick in America and China instead of fighting budget constraints to keep them affordable under the US-only Pontiac. Let Chevrolet sell affordable versions globally to help control costs. Although, see Saab’s description about GM being stubborn.

3 ) Mercury - Once the crown jewels are sold, Ford may end up pursuing what several auto-analysts have suggested and follow a Toyota approach: two divisions... Mainstream & luxury - Ford & Lincoln. (Ford has a controlling stake in Mazda, but doesn't own it.)

4 ) Buick - Regardless of how I feel, there's no guarantee Buick will survive in America unless GM becomes serious about saving its founding brand. However, China keeps Buick on life support at the moment.

Thanks for the post, Ven!

How could I have left Maybach off of the list?!!

I mostly agree with you on the imports, but I see the domestics a bit differently. I would place Mercury at the top of the list. I simply see no further purpose for that brand.

Buick and Pontiac, along with GMC, will be just fine as a grouping as long as GM can get the product rolling soon. I really do believe in the BPG concept.

Dodge and Chrysler will live or die together as one isn't worth much without the other. Jeep will survive no matter what. The jury is about as out as it can be for all of Chrysler Corp. right now as it is too soon to say how the turnaround is going.

[Camino LS6]

I would love for all asian cars to leave, especially Toyota and Honda, Euro cars can stay even though I don't care them could stay except for VW, Volvo and BMW, but we all know that will never happen.

So these could be realistc

Mitsubishi

Isuzu

Kia

Suzuki

Mercury

VW

Land Rover

Acura

Those names are all on my list as well.

Thanks for the post!

[Brougham-Holiday]

1. Suzuki

2. Isuzu

3. Saab

4. Saturn (use the Oldsmobile name again)

5. Kia

6. Scion (the answer to the question no one ever asked)

7. Land Rover

Edited July 20, 2007 by Brougham-Holiday

[Z-06]

Anything and everything non-GM should GO. If they bitch about fair competition may be keep Ford and Chrysler, may be BMW and MB as foreign competitors.

Although I do have soft corner for the S2000, TSX and the TL for their spectacular manual transmissions.

That is it.

[Camino LS6]

I think I'll take this in corporate chunks with GM first:

1. We all know that GM doesn't want to kill any brands.

2. I think BPG will eventually work out just fine.

3. Hummer and Saab are loose ends.

4. Isuzu (50% GM, right?) is pointless as a retail brand.

5. Saturn is on the rise, so what about a Saturn, Saab, Hummer grouping?

6. Kill Isuzu as a brand for anything but medium-duty trucks

Now to think about Ford for a while, their corporate situation is tougher to science out.

[Camino LS6]

OK, Ford.

1. Kill Mercury

2. Sell Jaguar/Land Rover as a unit. These might survive under other ownership

3 Group Lincoln with Volvo and give Lincoln a Major overhaul.

4.Grab as much of Mazda as possible.

[Flybrian]

SAAB needs too much work for too little return. Keep fostering SAAB's development overseas and just import various models for the states. Don't develop vehicles necessarily geared for the US-market. No one actually gives a crap in this country. Purists bitch about the cupholder opening counterclockwise instead of clockwise while the general public is apathetic.

[Camino LS6]

The Asian Makes:

1. Mitsubishi: exit the market

2. Suzuki: exit the market

3. Isuzu: exit the retail market

4. Kia: exit the market

5. Scion: should exit the market but Toyota will prop it up forever if necessary.

6. Infiniti: Nissan thinks they have a good shot with this brand, and if things go wrong they will

prop it up for quite a while.

7. Acura: Doing too well to leave anytime soon and Honda will prop it up forever if need be.

[Camino LS6]

SAAB needs too much work for too little return. Keep fostering SAAB's development overseas and just import various models for the states. Don't develop vehicles necessarily geared for the US-market. No one actually gives a crap in this country. Purists bitch about the cupholder opening counterclockwise instead of clockwise while the general public is apathetic.

Agreed.

All the more reason to sell them at Saturn stores.

[Camino LS6]

The Europeans:

1. Maybach: exit the market

2. Jaguar: Can't survive without the US market - needs a new owner.

3. Land Rover: go with Jag or die alone.

4. Maserati: exit the market, can't compete here now that it's split from Ferrari

5. Saab: see GM list

6. Volvo: see Ford list

7. VW: one more remake, then give up and exit the market if it fails

8. Audi: cozy up to Porsche or exit the market

9. Lotus: exit the market

[Camino LS6]

So here's my final list of those that should go now:

1. Mercury

2. Isuzu

3. Kia

4. Mitsubishi

5. Suzuki

6. Maybach

7. Maserati

8. Lotus

Those that likely should go:

1. VW

2. Infiniti - the weakest of the Japanese luxury makes

3. Jaguar - very weak sales and an ailing parent

4. Land Rover- see above

Thanks everyone for helping me formulate this list, now I have a question.

Can anyone tell me how many total sales the above brands represent in total?

[Oracle of Delphi]

H O L D E N Edited July 20, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Sixty8panther]

Hyundai

Kia

Mitsubishi

Acura

Scion

Land Rover

[Camino LS6]

H O L D E N

US market, wiseguy.

[VenSeattle]

Those that likely should go:

1. VW

2. Infiniti - the weakest of the Japanese luxury makes

3. Jaguar - very weak sales and an ailing parent

4. Land Rover- see above

Infiniti's line-up is well-rounded and stands up against the direct competition better than Acura. FWD/AWD sedans and two Crossovers don't make the most premium of line-ups... especially when the only true-luxury car you have is floundering. Also, Acura's target "luxury market" only spans from the $25k-$50k range (but be honest, who's paying full price for an RL?!? No one around here.)

So, I'd say the weakest luxury brand out of the Japanese is Acura.

[Robert Hall]

So, I'd say the weakest luxury brand out of the Japanese is Acura.

Acura has it's own niche, I don't think it will have the volume of Lexus or Infiniti, but in it's on way it fits nicely along with other FWD/AWD near-lux brands like Saab and Volvo. Acuras are a nice step up from regular Hondas.

[Hudson]

I don't believe the market is overcrowded. I'm all for MORE choice.

[Robert Hall]

I don't believe the market is overcrowded. I'm all for MORE choice.

Agreed..plenty of choice is a good thing. But I do wonder how brands like Isuzu or Suzuki can stay afloat in the US market... (i.e. do they turn a profit?).

I love seeing the high dollar, low volume models here...the world would be a lesser place without rolling art like Maseratis, Aston Martins, etc...

[Camino LS6]

Infiniti's line-up is well-rounded and stands up against the direct competition better than Acura. FWD/AWD sedans and two Crossovers don't make the most premium of line-ups... especially when the only true-luxury car you have is floundering. Also, Acura's target "luxury market" only spans from the $25k-$50k range (but be honest, who's paying full price for an RL?!? No one around here.)

So, I'd say the weakest luxury brand out of the Japanese is Acura.

I understand your point,Ven. However, the parent company has issues and so I see Infiniti as less protected than Acura. Also Infiniti has some really awful SUVs. With that said, I almost like the new Coupes and have always prefered Infiniti's approach to that of Lexus and Acura. I guess I just see the brand at greater risk.

[Drew Dowdell]

C'mon, be serious. I saw that you responded and I was expecting a well thought out list. :AH-HA_wink:

I'm shocked... shocked... that you imply my list was not well thought out!

[Drew Dowdell]

1. Isuzu and Mitsubishi should leave the consumer business and just do commercial trucks.

2. Smart

3. Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep - when an entire major car company fails to have a single vehicle that even vaguely interests me.... they've failed. As much as I harp on BMW, Nissan/Infiniti, and Toyota/Lexus, they each do make at least one vehicle that I'd give a shot at my money if I were in the market today.

4. Kia.... just fold it into Hyundai and save the marketing dollars. It's not like it has any cache.

5. VW.... come back when you're relevant again and the Euro isn't so strong.

6. Saab... just leave them in Europe as Saabs. Rebadge the 9-5 as a Saturn Aurora.

Runners up.

1. Subaru - as much as I like Subi, their styling direction is way off these days. Fix it before you lose relevance.

Disagree with others on:

1. Mercury - I think Mercury really has the potential to be where VW thought it was going. Where VW still has the stigma of being the "people's car", Mercury, as damaged as it is <was?> is still though of as better than a Ford. Mercury is one of the few lineups where I like everything they make.

2. Lincoln - Lincoln is going through their remake and so far I want to give it time. I'm not thrilled with their design direction, but if it sells... then hey.

3. Jaguar - I think the expectations on Jaguar are a bit unrealistic. Jaguar should get comfortable with it's current sales volume, improve the cars it has, and advertise the hell out of the exclusivity of owning a Jaguar. Stop trying to go for volume.

edit: I didn't include the niche players like Maseratti or Lotus. They're too small to matter.

Edited July 20, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[CMG]

Repetitive brands..

For GM

-Oldsmobile

-Saturn

For Ford

-Mercury

Chrysler got rid of Plymouth, they should think about looking at Chery next. LOL

-Kia

-Scion

-Suzuki (let GM sell them?)

-Any of the lower production number imports.

-High end imports, let the rich import them...

Mind you, I think variety is the spice of life, and a lack of competition wouldn't be a GOOD thing for automakers already in need of repairs...??

[Cory Wolfe]

I don't believe the market is overcrowded. I'm all for MORE choice.

Agreed. I dont think any brands need to leave the market. However, if I had to mention some...

Buick - On the brink of redundancy.

Hummer - With fuel concerns, worthless.

Izuzu - Lost its touch long ago.

Jaguar - Sales are nonexistant, does Ford want it?

Mercury - Pretty much redundant as is.

Mitsubishi - Losing buyers and support.

Pontiac - Losing the fight, no thanks to it's fleet queens.

Suzuki - Other than SUVs, has little value.

[regfootball]

i'd like to see suzuki and hyundai and kia leave and have its buyers get absorbed by other brands.

toyota and lexus and scion can leave whenever they want.

acura is fairly useless.

i used to like subaru but these days I think they could certainly gft.

if dodge and chrysler left i wouldn't cry

Edited July 20, 2007 by regfootball

[CARBIZ]

The market is horribly oversaturated. I see it all the time with brand confusion. Even the "clipboard customer" gets his makes/models mixed up.

As to GM, if they would completely separate the divisions (unlike the symbolic separation we have now), so that P-B-GMC actually had its own design/marketing/engineering people, Chevrolet was Chevrolet again, Cadillac was autonomous, Saab-Saturn-Isuzu had its own structure - then, I could see the brands surviving; otherwise, a few of those should go because badge engineering is just distracting and siphoning precious resources that GM no longer has. The way things are done now, it is obvious that innovations and upgrades are "held back" for the next brand's iteration (the Aura and new Malibu come to mind).

Unless a meteor hits Japan, Toyota, Honda and Nissan, plus their associated brands are going nowhere.

I agree that Mistubishi, Kia and Subaru are just taking up space, although I wouldn't mind seeing Subaru's line being absorbed by Hyundai or someone who could use it. If Mitsubishi didn't have the daddy company behind it, it would not be in business.

Ford may want to make better use of Mercury and Lincoln, like the good old days. It probably wouldn't hurt to have Mazda brought a little closer. Ford needs to learn more from its Mazda cousin. Jaguar, Volvo and the rest should just go.

Personally, I would hate to see Chrysler go, but now that it has no international links, I fear Cerebrus will get tired of its new toy in a few years and cut the company up. That would probably cut loose Jeep - again. GM should have grabbed Jeep 20 years ago and put an end to that wandering brand's travels.

VW has lost its way. If it and Audi left, I would not lose any sleep. I doubt BMW or Mercedes are going anywhere soon, although I would like to see Cadillac and Lincoln get their acts together and kick the &#036;h&#33; out of those two brands and banish them from this side of the ocean, but I know I am just dreaming.

If I was a betting man, I would bet that Detroit is going to be a shell in a decade or so. Perhaps only GM will be left standing, with both Ford and Chrysler gone. Japan Inc is too relentless and with China waiting in the wings to conquer this shore and Washington's head in the sand, I don't think either of those two venerable names will survive.

One day, when a President has to call up the Chinese vice-Chairman (because the Chairman is too busy to take her call) and beg for more military vehicles to rescue a batallion in Darfur, perhaps an aid will wonder if something should have been done sooner.

[Hudson]

I can understand the comments about Isuzu, they are barely here to begin with. I don't know if anyone (including the few dealers left) would care if they stopped selling light-duty vehicles. I don't really understand why anyone buys a Colorado or Canyon when you can buy the equivalent (IF that equivalent is available) is offered at an Isuzu dealer for less money and with a better warranty. But, again, who would miss the Ascender or I-Series?

Mitsubishi I have more of a problem with. The Eclipse is a fun car. The Galant is a better car than many of the bland mid-sized cars offered. The Lancer is a very nice compact. Why would you like to lose these guys? If they left the market, not many people would notice, but something would be missing.

Suzuki is profitable and makes interesting products. As a Suzuki car (not truck) owner, I understand the appeal and I'm sure that most people (here and otherwise) have never experienced an Suzuki four-wheeled product. Their trucks aren't bad vehicles (even though I'm not a truck person) and their cars offer inexpensive and good quality (no matter what the surveys may tell you) choices. My car was rated as the second-lowest quality brand when I purchased it...and 15 years later it's still running great, getting great gas mileage, and honestly fun to drive.

I can't make good arguments for Mercury or Buick or Pontiac or Kia or many other brands mentioned above. Kia's profitable and offers more choices to the buying public at reasonable price/quality levels. Buick and Pontiac offer interesting products but I can't say that they're profitable or highly desirable to the buying public. And I'm not entirely sure why Mercury wasn't killed a decade ago.

I agree with Moltar that if all (or any) of the tiny manufacturers (Aston Martin, Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc) left, the marketplace would be a much less colorful place. They're not hurting anyone, especially if you can't afford them so why should they be on anyone's list?

If the measure of the marketplace crowding is the fact that buyers are getting confused, I don't see this as a problem with overcrowding as much as homogenization. If the buyer confuses two vehicles, there's not enough differentiation and that's the manufacturer's fault. Make products unique. Differentiate your mid-sized sedans from the competition. Mitsubishi has tried...and they've made nearly everyone's list. Suzuki attempted (by selling that underpowered Daewoo)...and again they've made many lists. Scion and Smart and Suzuki have offered unique small cars and again they've made many lists.

Are you guys desiring more homogenization? Would you like "Generic Car" brands and models?

Customer: "Yes, I'm here to buy a Car."

Walmart Salesperson: "No problem. We offer Car in Small, Medium, and Large models. The price is marked by the UPC label."

[frogger]

As it stands now IMO in NA all of these brands bring little to the table vs the competition, have only one car anyone buys or are redundant. Perhaps they don't need to leave but the market as a whole wouldn't miss them, just fans.

Saab

Volvo

Suzuki

Kia

VW

Mitsubishi

Mercury

Pontiac

Buick

Edited July 20, 2007 by frogger

[Sixty8panther]

3. Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep - when an entire major car company fails to have a single vehicle that even vaguely interests me.... they've failed. As much as I harp on BMW, Nissan/Infiniti, and Toyota/Lexus, they each do make at least one vehicle that I'd give a shot at my money if I were in the market today.

There are some gross/ugly./craptastic Mopars out ther today but

between the SRT8s (Dodge Charger, 300C, Jeep G.C.) and the

full size trucks I can not imagine that you like NOTHING.

Granted I think 65% of Mopars are gross, here's a few that I despise:

Aspen

Durango

Caliber

Nitro

Sebring

I hate those five, absolutely HATE them. They're ugyl as sin and

they do not have any other redeming value at all. But I would not

say that Mopar deserves to leave the market, if anything thank

God for the LX cars which made the Sheeple realise that RWD and

kisk ass Big V8s still belong in cars!

6. Saab... just leave them in Europe as Saabs. Rebadge the 9-5 as a Saturn Aurora.

I think Fly just threw up in his mouth a little....

[Drew Dowdell]

There are some gross/ugly./craptastic Mopars out ther today but

between the SRT8s (Dodge Charger, 300C, Jeep G.C.) and the

full size trucks I can not imagine that you like NOTHING.

The styling and ergonomics of the LX cars are what completely lose me. Sure they have a great engine.... but there's more to a car than that.

I'm not an SUV guy at all so the Jeep G.C. does nothing for me.

so... yeah, there is nothing that chrysler makes that I'm even remotely interested in.

[aaaantoine]

I don't think we should remove any car companies. They all have a distinct personality, even if it's subtle.

Isuzu -- Well, okay, I wouldn't miss them, personally.

But I happen to like Mercury. It's the only American Ford brand I would/could buy from. They're certainly looking a lot more attractive than their Ford-badged counterparts.

I would very much like for Toyota to leave, but from what I hear, Hell's been keeping pretty toasty.

[NOS2006]

GM:

*Sell Saab (exit market)

*Rework Buick into Lexus fighter

*Rework Pontiac into what it's supposed to be

Ford:

*Kill Mercury (Ford can take over their vehicles)

*Lincoln needs makeover like Cadillac just went through

*Sell Jag/Rover together

*Keep Volvo and put it in line with Lexus/Buick

*Work out the rough edges in Mazda

*Bring over some Euro/Australian Ford vehicles

Cerberus:

*Acquire Jag/Rover and place Jag in the luxury role (major rework)

*Keep Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler. Huge rework all over.

Leave market:

*Saab

*VW

*Mitsubishi

*Suzuki

*Isuzu

*Kia

*Hyundai

*Subaru

*Scion

[LosAngeles]

All of you know I don't believe in companies not being in this market.

Answering the original question:

Exit/Fold (in order of extent):

Scion-Toyota's exercise in d--k wagging. Also their exercise in trying to get hip, because they know that as conservative as the Toyota brand has always been, they've made their lineup the most boring of all time (barring FJ Cruiser). Scion wasn't the way to be hip (great free Hip-Hop shows, however, and I hope to eternally be on their list). Celica, Supra, Corolla coupe, and the WILL cars are (Toyota was a great brand to check out when the former three existed). The tC should be a Celica or Corolla coupe, plain and simple. Scion simply wasn't really necessary to me.

Acura-each car could be recast as Honda-brand with a name change, plus Acura was US only, because of our perception issues. Honda as a brand could sell a proper standard car now that would get far better response than the Legend/RL ever did (and the KA-7 Legend was a VERY popular car here, so that's telling). Acura's luxury isn't as full-blown as it should be.

Kia-hand the Spectra hatch to Hyundai as the Elantra's partner (think of a Korean Golf/Jetta). The Oval-H can stand alone. Kia is simply Hyundai with different styling. Not sportier or more luxurious, not even more inexpensive, just different. And it would be difficult to recast as not being the POSes the public at large think they are.

Mercury-barring Cougar, has been 35 years of badge engineering. It's not Pontiac, Acura, or even the late Plymouth...no otherwise clear mission. Damn near the extreme of what I mentioned with Kia, jsut redundantly doing the same thing.

and dare I say it....

Saturn-I think most companies can only really pull off four distinct personalities: the base bread and butter (Chevy), ballsy roughneck sportiness and performance (Pontiac), comfortable-shoes, business-casual luxury (Buick), and all out exotic "what dress is that actress wearing to the awards show?" luxury (Cadillac), When Olds died, Saturn should have probably gone with it, because just like the Olds-Saturn merger talk suggested, the personality was the same, but also could easily be found elsewhere in the corporate portfolio. As much as I loved the Cutlasses and Auroras of back in the days, Olds should have died when DeSoto did, to be perfectly honest. And Saturn should never have even existed. The Astra should be a Pontiac (my longtime stance here), Aura should be a Buick, and most of the Opel/Vauxhall cars Saturn is getting could easily be Chevys (Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden are basically Chevy, the bread and butter for the respective countries they exist in)

Enter:

Renault

Peugeot

Citroen

Venturi (yes, I'm a big fan of what the French do, they add the funk we need, but one can only hope for reliability, problems with which got them running out with their tail between their legs)

Skoda

Alfa

TVR

MG Rover (with Land Rover joining the family reunion)

Now for what the post turned into:

Fix/Recast:

Isuzu-should be bought by Honda 100% to be their GMC (so Honda can quit making their own SUVs). Isuzu for me died when they quit making cars. So let them stick to trucks while Honda sticks to cars and motorcycles.

Infiniti-otherwise OK (the G and FX sell), but with the brand now worldwide, take the badge-engineered Nissan feel out. Add some Renault influence to the next Q.

Chrysler-doing the differentiation right, for the most part, just needs more premium feel thrown in.

Mitsubishi-less bonehead mistakes. Maybe add a compact hatch, and something funky? The boy-racer kids love the Lancer Evo, more sporty stuff like that would get 'em.

Saab and Volvo-should both be spun off or sold by their respective owners, who have their own houses to worry about. Then the confusion goes away and the proper attention can be paid to them.

Jaguar-like stated elsewhere, get from under Ford, and over to someone who can shoot them the cash they need to give the dating-back-to-1968 XJ a new chassis. They can be the competitor to Mercedes, Lexus, and BMW they deserve to be.

More later, I need to move on to other matters....

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Agreed.

All the more reason to sell them at Saturn stores.

This idea brings to mind the dealership where we got our Saturn from. Saturn of Lexington is grouped in alongside another dealer next door, Quantrell Group, which sells Saabs and Hummers in addition to Cadillacs and Volvos.

Edited July 20, 2007 by YellowJacket894

[MyerShift]

My list:

Definites:

Suzuki

Isuzu

Maybach

smart (not even here yet)

Possibles:

Scion

Mistusbishi

Volkswagen

Acura

Kia

Death Watch Brands (domestic)

Mercury

Lincoln

Buick

Pontiac

Dodge

Who I'd Just Want Gone

Mercedes-Benz

Toyota (all of it)

Nissan (all)

GMDAT

[Micah Pie]

I don't think any brands need to leave the market. I have such a hard time finding a car that interest me, I think the market should be revampt completely.

For example:

Chevy Trucks/ GMC ... what the hay? These IDENTICAL sheet metals ANNOY me!!.

Let Chevy sell Trucks for average Joe who thinks he needs to feel big in a Pickup (for the family) and drop the HD versions. Construction people can buy stripped down, ready-for-buissness (HD) GMCs.

No more Acadia and Envoys, Denalis.

[z28luvr01]

I'll concentrate on the Big 3, since for the imported brands it'll be hard for me not to say "I want them all gone".

GM

Any one of these:

G'bye Isuzu

G'bye Suzuki

G-bye GMDAT - let a 110hp Cobalt pick up the slack left by the Aveo.

Combine Saab and Hummer, combine Saturn and Chevrolet

Combine Saab, Hummer, and Saturn

Combine Hummer and Saturn, pull Saab out of the US

Buick of China can prop up Buick US if need be

Holden can prop up Pontiac if need be

Ford

Jag can go at least for a time. It has little cache at this point. Let it go back to Europe and rebuild itself there

Rover can stay. Drive through the Hamptons - Rovers appear to be included with the purchase of a new home, because there's one in every driveway

Mercury - prop it up with Ford of Europe

Lincoln - Prop it up with Ford of Australia

Chrysler

My least favorite of the Big 3, but I can't see too much to cut here. I'll just remark that they need to pump some serious cash into Chrysler to make it more than a Dodge with droopy headlights and strakes on the hood.