Volkswagen may leave United States

[Flybrian]

Can VW Finally Find Its Way In America?
A last-ditch drive must correct disastrous turns to make the U.S. profitable again

Link to Original Article @ Business Week

Volkswagen's (VLKAY ) experience in the U.S. has always been one of highs and lows. But rarely have its fortunes sunk so low as now. Less than a decade ago, the quirky reinvented Beetle helped VW come roaring back from a previous crisis. But for the past three years, its U.S. operations have lost close to $1 billion annually.

Now it's trying again to save the brand in the U.S. To head U.S. operations, it's bringing in Stefan Jacoby, a German with close ties to VW Chairman Martin Winterkorn and Supervisory Board Chairman Ferdinand K. Piëch, who took control of the company this year after a shakeup that left Porsche as VW's controlling shareholder. Jacoby, 49, an accountant by training, made his mark as head of VW's global sales and marketing. Since Jacoby took charge, the company boosted its European market share to 20.3% from 18.1%, helping keep it solidly in place as the Continent's leading brand. With its U.S. fortunes in long-term decline, Jacoby is facing his biggest challenge yet. His mission: to meet Winterkorn's target of breaking even in the U.S. by 2009.

Only a year ago, VW was gearing up a huge marketing campaign to relaunch a revamped Rabbit and Jetta in a bid to recapture its niche as the affordable, stylish European car of choice for younger buyers. VW hired former MiniUSA marketing chief Kerri Martin, who recruited super-hot U.S. ad agency Crispin Porter + Bogusky. The plan, as chronicled in a BusinessWeek cover story (May 22, 2006), was to create a VW renaissance.

It didn't work out that way. A string of attention-grabbing ads—one campaign showed people surviving crashes unscathed and another starred a German dominatrix named Helga—did little to juice sales of VW's two most important models, the Jetta and the Passat. "I've never seen a brand struggle so hard to understand the U.S. market and fail so miserably," says Rebecca Lindland, a director at consulting firm Global Insight Inc. VW's sales slid to 235,000 last year, from 338,000 in 2002. Martin left last December, part of a shakeup when Porsche took over.

Making matters worse is the perception in the U.S. that VW's quality lags vs. its Japanese rivals. VW's interiors, for example, don't stand up to the kind of abuse they get from U.S. drivers, who do a lot more eating, drinking coffee, and applying makeup in their cars than Europeans do. That's one factor in J.D. Power & Associates Inc. (MHP ) ranking VW in the bottom 20% for reliability, quality, and service. "That really hurts VW when its young customer base does so much online comparative shopping," says Power Information Network analyst Tom Libby.

To turn operations around, Jacoby has to battle the punishingly high euro and VW's limited manufacturing presence in North America. Even more important, the company needs to introduce new models that build on its long tradition of quirkiness and connect with U.S. consumers. Instead, the carmaker's more recent offerings feel bland. Dealers think VW blew a golden opportunity when it chose not to introduce an updated version of the wildly popular Microbus from the '60s and '70s. Instead, the company is launching a repackaged, Volkswagen-branded, Chrysler (DCX ) minivan. Casey Gunther, VW's top-selling U.S. dealer, in Coconut Creek, Fla., is worried. "We're missing the funkiness" that U.S. buyers expect from VW, he says. "The Germans don't understand." And unlike in Europe, affluent buyers don't see VW as an aspirational brand.

Winterkorn vows the turnaround of the U.S. business is his "No. 1 priority." But there's only so long any management can put up with nearly $1 billion annual losses. Says one executive close to VW: "For the first time in some time, the phrase If we are to stay in the U.S.' precedes a lot of conversations at VW."

[Cory Wolfe]

In some ways, I'm surprised... But in others, I'm not.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not at all surprised. My ex was a total VW nut and even he didn't get at all excited about any of the new VWs. He liked the Pheaton for it's interior... and that was about it.

[A Horse With No Name]

Given the quality of what they build...good riddance.

Chris

[FAPTurbo]

Oh, shame.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

One problem I find is that, while their cars are handsome, they are boring as hell. Other European brands have at least a few interesting styling cues (take the taillights and the interior in an Opel Astra, for example) while VW has none. They need to focus on making all of their cars sporty while being original and funky. The new Scirocco needs to be here. Why couldn't they build a car similar in spirit to the Porsche 924/944/968 models, rear-drive and all. And the Beetle is just way too cute to cut it.

There also needs to be less overlap with Audi and VW and they need to set down specific styling for each brand. In some respects, one could confuse a Passat for a A6 and vice versa.

I'd like for VW to stay Stateside. European cars always were more or just as interesting to me as an American car in a few ways, mainly because they are sort of uncommon. However, I must say this news doesn't surprise me one bit.

[LosAngeles]

That's a cute thread title....but we all know that's not gonna happen. Neither Volkswagen nor any brand in its portfolio in this market is going anywhere. They're not Renault or PSA, they're too firmly entrenched in America to seriously consider leaving.

It is definitely true that they can't make the conservative stuff, that's just not the VW business in the US. They've gotta be the car you look at and think "hmmmm....interesting" (like people are currently doing with Scions--tell me folks wouldn't have gone wild if the xB was a Volkswagen at the right price).

Edited July 18, 2007 by LosAngeles

[Oracle of Delphi]

Buh Bye VW, I hate you more than I hate Holden! But then y'all knew that, huh?

Edited July 18, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Cory Wolfe]

One problem I find is that, while their cars are handsome, they are boring as hell. Other European brands have at least a few interesting styling cues (take the taillights and the interior in an Opel Astra, for example) while VW has none. They need to focus on making all of their cars sporty while being original and funky. The new Scirocco needs to be here. Why couldn't they build a car similar in spirit to the Porsche 924/944/968 models, rear-drive and all. And the Beetle is just way too cute to cut it.

There also needs to be less overlap with Audi and VW and they need to set down specific styling for each brand. In some respects, one could confuse a Passat for a A6 and vice versa.

I'd like for VW to stay Stateside. European cars always were more or just as interesting to me as an American car in a few ways, mainly because they are sort of uncommon. However, I must say this news doesn't surprise me one bit.

Agreed.

I also think they need to go back to the feel that the previous generation models had. The Mk IV Jetta and Golf are a favorite of mine. The current offerings are downgrade in design, IMO.

Edited July 18, 2007 by blackviper8891

[76ChevyTrucker]

I don't really know what to say about this one, from what I've seen with VW, its been a crapshoot when it comes to the quality, and in most cases, they are a little boring when it comes to their design and style. Otherwise, I've heard some good things, but I've also heard an assload of bad things too. Maybe it would be a good idea for them to get out of the market for a while and reinvent themselves (like said above, differentiate themselves more from Audi).

[toesuf94]

I happen to really like the current VWs for thier content and pricing. The features are better than the Japanese rivals, and at least when you crash a VW, you have a chance of Surviving. Beetle, Jetta, Passat...all 5 star crash ratings. Sure, they may be less exciting than many other cars out there, but they are a lot better than any Japanese car this side of the Mazdas. I really have not heard anything bad about the reliability- all of ours were bullet-proof.

[balthazar]

Good news!

I spent far too much time in a passat last winter- besides being a bore-fest, it fell totally short of the 'VW hype' and had some really strange ergonomics.

I'm disappointed that this article failed to bring up VW's market performance peaked almost 40 years ago and has fallen ever since, instead picking the very recent year of 2002, as if it's only been a few years of trouble.

Ironic- tho I'm far from a VW fan, their recent funky ads and the current Golf finally were catching my eye.

>>"...we all know that's not gonna happen. Neither Volkswagen nor any brand in its portfolio in this market is going anywhere... they're too firmly entrenched in America to seriously consider leaving."<<

Ever hear of a little outfit called Oldsmobile? And they weren't losing anything close to the cash VW has been bleeding for years (Olds was still profitable in 2000 when the discontinuance was announced).

[VenSeattle]

Where was the "Volkswagen Death Watch" for the past three years?

[tmp]

Making matters worse is the perception in the U.S. that VW's quality lags vs. its Japanese rivals. VW's interiors, for example, don't stand up to the kind of abuse they get from U.S. drivers, who do a lot more eating, drinking coffee, and applying makeup in their cars than Europeans do.

Funny, my friend who had a new beetle did nothing but drive it and the interior was peeling like a bad sunburn two minutes after the warranty ran out. Add in the power window switches that snapped off in her hands, the glovebox door that seized up (they wanted $700 to fix it so it stays closed to this day) and the magic-self-staining seats and you have a disaster of an interior. Which would have been only annoying if the damned pile of crap didn't go through 3 clutches, 2 radiators in 90k miles, now has a shifter that feels like it's seated in warm butter and it eats brake pads like they were M&M's.

But it's our fat American latte swilling asses that are the problem....

[LosAngeles]

>>"...we all know that's not gonna happen. Neither Volkswagen nor any brand in its portfolio in this market is going anywhere... they're too firmly entrenched in America to seriously consider leaving."<<

Ever hear of a little outfit called Oldsmobile? And they weren't losing anything close to the cash VW has been bleeding for years (Olds was still profitable in 2000 when the discontinuance was announced).

Exiting a market and FOLDING a brand completely are two different things.

[Drew Dowdell]

Where was the "Volkswagen Death Watch" for the past three years?

.

[VenSeattle]

Ever hear of a little outfit called Oldsmobile? And they weren't losing anything close to the cash VW has been bleeding for years (Olds was still profitable in 2000 when the discontinuance was announced).

Unfortunately, that just isn't true. Oldsmobile had been unprofitable for several years. Here's a link to GM's published official statement:

Detroit, Mich. - GM announced today that the Oldsmobile Division will be phased out over the next few years.

In making the announcement, GM President and Chief Executive Officer Rick Wagoner and Executive Vice President and President North America Ron Zarrella said that despite major investments over the past few years that resulted in critically acclaimed new Oldsmobile products, the division was still unprofitable and its sales volume continued to erode.

Here's another link to an article full of information on Oldsmobile:

The industry sales trend meant that Oldsmobile's sales and market share plunged steadily for well over a decade, dropping to only 265,878 vehicles sold in the first 11 months of this year, representing only 1.6 percent of the U.S. market. By comparison, in 1985 the brand sold 1.1 million U.S. vehicles, or 7 percent of that market.

The sales are even weaker than those numbers suggest, said David Healy, analyst with Burnham Securities. He said about half the sales are lower-profit fleet sales to companies or to GM employees at a discount. He said the elimination of the Oldsmobile brand was inevitable.

[Drew Dowdell]

Isn't that number for Olds actually higher than what Buick or Pontiac are doing these days? I know it way higher than Saab.

Olds actually had a more complete lineup in 2000 than Pontiac or Buick have today.

[Clownzilla]

Every single one that we have had in our dealership has had serious problems. Even the VW's that were only a few years old (that was most of them). Buttons and seat leather cracking, parts falling off, panel separation, etc.. These things are pieces of $%&t. I still have a soft spot for them though, and I hope they don't leave the USA.

[Drew Dowdell]

I will give VW props where props are due. Their V6es, both the standard ones and the VR models, are the smoothest 6 cylinder engines this side of BMW.

[chevelle454]

Good, I can"t stand VW's. Now if only Toycrapa and Hundah would leave.

[Viperfan07]

I'd hate to see VW leave. I love'em especially when they have the rack on the roof. In fact I think they're possibly the only vehicles on the road that look good with a rack on top. I must agree with BV, the Mk IV Jetta is possibly the best designed Jetta ever! The new Golf/Rabbit looks great IMO. Anyway, I hope they straighten this out and fast.

[hyperv6]

The big problem is VW is still considered a cheap car in this country while they have gone upscale in Europe. We look at them as a whole different car here and that is why the $25,000 and up VW's just don't sell.

Besides once you get to $30,000 or higher American's buy Audi's.

The V6 GTI's are a blast to drive but it seems only a few Passats and Beetles are all you see.

Edited July 18, 2007 by hyperv6

[Flybrian]

VW wastes its time pursuing the premium and elite markets where it a) has no business and b) already has a brand that does it (Audi). The article is dead right; VWs are not aspirational and they never will be. No one hopes to one day own a VW. No one looks at a VW as a sign that you've 'made it.' Not in this country. A Volkswagen says you're a little out there, a little crazy, a little hip, and a little cool. You want it because it fits your personality and *gasp!* you're supposed to be able to afford it with no problem. That's how VW rebounded from the depths of exile-dom late last decade with the Beetle, Jetta, and Passat. Cute, cheap, affable cars.

Whoever ran the show, however, for the past eight years is a joke on wheels. The Phaeton. The Turwrarughagh. The Eos. All wastes of time and money exerted trying to pursue a market not meant for them. Keep those cars in Europe where they belong. Where is the funk? The cool? The groovy, daddy-o? The Beetle - which is snoring the hell out of me at this point - and the Rabbit/Golf are the only realistically marketable VWs in the lineup.

The new Jetta is bland, soft, and pricey.

The Passat is bland, soft, and pricey.

The Touruhgiuhoiugh is wonderfully-engineered for a market that will never, ever use it. Can you see these 30 year-old wannabe broads offroading their VW? "Hill Descent Control...is that Starbucks' newest blend?"

The Eos doesn't belong here. Get it out of here and bring back the Cabrio. God, I never thought I'd say that, but its true. You're asking folks to spend how much on a Volkswagen convertible with three seperate electrically-moving roof panels? Are you a masochist? You know how horribly disjointed that thing is going to look in three years? What happened to the $20,000 ditzy lil' ragtop that wasn't trying to be a luxury car, just fun?

And now what's on the horizon - a Scirroco? Of course not, there's no market they say. However, there is a market for a lightly-reengineered Caravan. WHAT?! This is the plan? The Microbus would've had standing orders above MSRP for at least two years. VW would've struggled to meet demand, straining factories, importers, and dealers. Instead, VW gets a characterless, bland family box. Someone people are asking, "Is it going to have a diesel? It would be cool if it had a diesel...and maybe a stick. Yeah, it should have a turbo-four and a stick." WHO CARES[/b]...you can buy a Caravan for $21,000 at a Dodge dealership. What moron would buy this VW van?

Remember when VWs had soul? People really didn't give a &#036;h&#33; if they fell apart a little (or a LOT) because they loved 'em anyway. You think Beetles and Microbuses were in any way reliable? Safe? Not really. But they were cute and appealing and people ate them up. Now, VW wants to show it has the pedigree and class to compete in the premium arena. Guess what - people expect premium cars to not fall apart.

Its very ironic actually that the flower child becomes the corporate shill as much as VW has become. I do have to laugh a little at it.

[thegriffon]

Why the h— aren't they selling the Fox in NA? The Euro situation is a red herring, since most VW's sold in the US are built in Mexico.

[Camino LS6]

Actually, it's about time for some brands to leave this market. I rather it was an Asian brand, but any foreign brand that exits the US market is good news.

[thegriffon]

The big problem is VW is still considered a cheap car in this country while they have gone upscale in Europe. We look at them as a whole different car here and that is why the $25,000 and up VW's just don't sell.

Besides once you get to $30,000 or higher American's buy Audi's.

The V6 GTI's are a blast to drive but it seems only a few Passats and Beetles are all you see.

VW hasn't really gone upscale in Europe. Pricing is within the ballpark for the other mainstream brands (Opel, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen etc.), even if the odd variant is a little at the high end, but the same can be said for the other brands as well. Bear in mind that in Germany a 235 PS Hyundai Azera is 39K Euro, a 238 PS Volvo S80 41K Euro, and an 231 PS E 280 just over 42K Euro (now you see why Hyundai calls a sub $US30K Genesis a luxury car). Even a Toyota can be more expensive than a comparable Saab or Alfa Romeo (of course, top end engine in the Toyota v. a lower rung engine in the Saab or Alfa). A Vectra OPC? over 40K Euro, more than a Saab 9-3 Aero or Cadillac BLS.

[ketch]

Given the quality of what they build...good riddance.

Chris

one word. Mexico

[dimitri0917]

omg. that really isn't good.

anyway. they need out of the premium market and let audi handle that b/c audi isn't good enough to REALLY compete with Mercedes-BMW

Kill Bug.

Beef up Rabbit to be hip and cool.

Audi needs A1 to slay Mini.

Jetta needs redo to fight imports better.

Kill Eos, really.

Passat needs redo to fight Accord.

Keep Phaeton away, and give the A8 resuscitation!

Bring on Tiguan whilst CUV's are in vogue.

Bring Touareg down a notch. No VW needs a V-10, no matter how big. Leave that for Cayenne.

Do all that, and they got a chance.

Edited July 19, 2007 by dimitri0917

[ocnblu]

I have loved VWs for their wonderful driving feel, their solid bodies, and spunky engines. I have owned 4 so far. By far, my favorite was an '00 GTI 1.8t. What a wonderful little car that was.

I have been a vocal critic of VW's march upmarket since it began. VWs used to be classless, meaning they appealed to everyone, regardless of income level. But they have abandoned the very market they thrived in, moving into Audi territory... an obvious mistake.

I hope they can improve things. Their diesel engines have always been great. We need a wholesale return to diesel availability here in the U.S., and we need more affordable cars throughout the lineup... which I feel should be limited to Beetle, Rabbit, Jetta, Passat and Tiguan. Maybe slot a smaller car below the Rabbit.

[Drew Dowdell]

Fly keeping his pwnage credentials intact.

[Camino LS6]

Fly keeping his pwnage credentials intact.

[regfootball]

VW has earned its place here and does not deserve to go.

diesels

the bus

beetle

scirroco

corrado

passat

fox

eurovan

golf

jetta

i would rather see other brands die. hyundai kia honda toyota etc.

vw is a long time contributor to our automotive history in the US.

its really the quality issue but everything else is there. remember we say 'its all about product'? well, vw's product is good and look where that gets them.

it was styling and interiors that got vw popular earlier this decade. it was reliability that killed them.

in the age of the internet, 5 minutes of surfing tells the idiotic non thinking amurchan to buy a camry or accord.

and its that much harder for a diverse automotive landscape. its not fair.

the current jetta and rabbit are very good cars. they lease them cheap and in lesser trims are fairly reasonable to buy. beetles are cheap and campy.

a big problem is stuff like the phaeton and v6 passats way too spendy. audi going downmarket doesn't help.

here's what i would do to flush out vw's lineup.

rabbit - as is pretty much.

jetta- stop trying to peddle loaded versions at such a high price.

gti- seemingly ok

beetle......i would try to bring down the pricing to move them in more volume except for some special editions. the interior needs a redo. this car needs a marketing push.

passat......repackage it. get the word out about the base model and lower equipped models. i would consider dropping the v6's.

i would rebadge the eos as the jetta convertible. or i might even drop the model.

i might drop the toareg. off a cliff if possible.

they need a budget entry, a size smaller than the rabbit. bring the polo over. scirroco too.

vw needs a cheap crossover. tiguan is unattractive. they can do better. a good crossover or two would help vw.

i've never understood why GM never marketed the saab 9-3 to passat customers. 'vw's break down' and the saab is more unique. i think saab could have sustained itself in the US just off of disgruntled VW customers.....poaching them......an extra 10,000 a year or so.

vw's dealers don't help. they are often pushy rude and bad places overall. VW must have poor customer relations.

Edited July 19, 2007 by regfootball

[LosAngeles]

Yeah, bread and butter brands (which is what Volkswagen MOSTLY wants to be) should stay below $40K (and below $30K if you stop at intermediates like the Passat)

But one can't help but understand the attempt to bland up or move upmarket. The Americans seem to only appreciate Camcords or luxury cars. So Volkswagen got ideas in their heads that didn't work....just didn't have the needed flexibility to switch back fast enough.

One thing they better stay in the GTI era is drivers' cars.

[the_yellow_dart]

Am I the only one COMPLETELY shocked by this???

I thought this was one of Fly's jokes!!!

I thought Ford and Mitsu would die LONG before VW!!!

[VenSeattle]

Am I the only one COMPLETELY shocked by this???

I thought this was one of Fly's jokes!!!

I thought Ford and Mitsu would die LONG before VW!!!

I'm not shocked... Mitsubishi & Volkswagen are both at the top of my list of the soon-to-be-departed.

Suzuki's sales increased last year, but I think their survival in the US market depends on what they bring out to replace the GM-DAT cars.

Are there any Isuzu dealers left?

[pow]

Funny how differently VW is perceived here in the US compared to Europe. Over there, VWs are synonymous with quality, practicality, and class. Golfs are for families, GTIs are the sole non-antisocial hot hatches, and Passats are executive saloons. Here VWs are unreliable, impractical, and funky.

Their sales successes and failures seem to correlate with these perceptions. My own personal experience (base '02 Passat 1.8T, 63K mi) has been positive. Five years ago, the then-four-year-old beat anything from Toyota or Honda. The Mazda 6 didn't exist yet. Neither did Cadillac's A&S revolution. Or the H2. Curtain airbags, which the Passat had standard, were still rare and exotic. Ditto a tilt and telescoping steering wheel. Now, though, others have caught up.

Edited July 19, 2007 by empowah

[pow]

VW has earned its place here and does not deserve to go.

diesels

the bus

beetle

scirroco

corrado

passat

fox

eurovan

golf

jetta

i would rather see other brands die. hyundai kia honda toyota etc.

vw is a long time contributor to our automotive history in the US.

its really the quality issue but everything else is there. remember we say 'its all about product'? well, vw's product is good and look where that gets them.

it was styling and interiors that got vw popular earlier this decade. it was reliability that killed them.

in the age of the internet, 5 minutes of surfing tells the idiotic non thinking amurchan to buy a camry or accord.

and its that much harder for a diverse automotive landscape. its not fair.

the current jetta and rabbit are very good cars. they lease them cheap and in lesser trims are fairly reasonable to buy. beetles are cheap and campy.

a big problem is stuff like the phaeton and v6 passats way too spendy. audi going downmarket doesn't help.

here's what i would do to flush out vw's lineup.

rabbit - as is pretty much.

jetta- stop trying to peddle loaded versions at such a high price.

gti- seemingly ok

beetle......i would try to bring down the pricing to move them in more volume except for some special editions. the interior needs a redo. this car needs a marketing push.

passat......repackage it. get the word out about the base model and lower equipped models. i would consider dropping the v6's.

i would rebadge the eos as the jetta convertible. or i might even drop the model.

i might drop the toareg. off a cliff if possible.

they need a budget entry, a size smaller than the rabbit. bring the polo over. scirroco too.

vw needs a cheap crossover. tiguan is unattractive. they can do better. a good crossover or two would help vw.

i've never understood why GM never marketed the saab 9-3 to passat customers. 'vw's break down' and the saab is more unique. i think saab could have sustained itself in the US just off of disgruntled VW customers.....poaching them......an extra 10,000 a year or so.

vw's dealers don't help. they are often pushy rude and bad places overall. VW must have poor customer relations.

Good points all. VW NA is very poorly managed.

I don't understand why more people don't buy Passats. The entry-level ones are great value for the money, but apparently people would rather spend money on an inferior, but more nicely-garnished car (hence the success of "thin" cars like the ES350, IMO). According to CarsDirect, a Passat VE now goes for $20,235. Direct-injection, turbo, six-speeds, stability control, but manual seats, leatherette upholstery, wheel covers, and 4-cylinders. Perhaps mainstreaming their product line is what VW needs, though it's certainly not what enthusiasts want.

Edited July 19, 2007 by empowah

[RJB]

VW's used to be more fun. Now they are fat, bloated, and overpriced. It is disgusting how these cars have become candidates for a weight loss clinic, but yet the prices keep going up. My friend has a R32 and it is a fun car but I still think his 91/92 Gti was one of the most funs cars I have driven or been in. Not too mention it weighs a ton less than his current R32. I think the push for safety these days has killed alot of cars that were fun in their earlier days.

[Sixty8panther]

Where was the "Volkswagen Death Watch" for the past three years?

Amen!

I have way more respect for VW than any Japanese/Korean

manufacturer but their products often do dissapoint me.

Between the wicked funny "Veee-Duh-B" comercials and the

reintroduction of the Rabbitt name I actually thought they

were doing well for them selves... er ASSumed I guess.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm not shocked... Mitsubishi & Volkswagen are both at the top of my list of the soon-to-be-departed.

Suzuki's sales increased last year, but I think their survival in the US market depends on what they bring out to replace the GM-DAT cars.

Are there any Isuzu dealers left?

There is an Oldsmobile, Daewoo, Isuzu, Jeep dealer near me. He used to be an Plymouth,Eagle, Jeep dealer.

talk about a glutton for punishment.

[LosAngeles]

VW's used to be more fun. Now they are fat, bloated, and overpriced. It is disgusting how these cars have become candidates for a weight loss clinic, but yet the prices keep going up. My friend has a R32 and it is a fun car but I still think his 91/92 Gti was one of the most funs cars I have driven or been in. Not too mention it weighs a ton less than his current R32. I think the push for safety these days has killed alot of cars that were fun in their earlier days.

Yeah, I was looking for that six-letter S-bomb to be dropped everytime people talk about how much cars weigh.

That's why there's the need for higher factory performance these days.

Because all the safety and other technologies people and governments are demanding don't come light.

Between the wicked funny "Veee-Duh-B" comercials

Bro, you are so damn Massachusetts....that when you said that, you just magically teleported yourself into Legal Seafood. Edited July 19, 2007 by LosAngeles

[FAPTurbo]

Bro, you are so damn Massachusetts....that when you said that, you just magically teleported yourself into Legal Seafood.

:rotflmao:

[regfootball]

Good points all. VW NA is very poorly managed.

I don't understand why more people don't buy Passats. The entry-level ones are great value for the money, but apparently people would rather spend money on an inferior, but more nicely-garnished car (hence the success of "thin" cars like the ES350, IMO). According to CarsDirect, a Passat VE now goes for $20,235. Direct-injection, turbo, six-speeds, stability control, but manual seats, leatherette upholstery, wheel covers, and 4-cylinders. Perhaps mainstreaming their product line is what VW needs, though it's certainly not what enthusiasts want.

THEY NEVER ADVERTISE THE PASSAT VE!!!!!!!!

IF THEY DID, i suppose those with the loaded 40k passats would get POED.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I was speaking with my former German teacher (she's a native of Berlin) and she told me VW's are seen as cheap cars for poor people.

She is right, almost a low life car there.

[ocnblu]

As far as I know, VW is still the best selling brand in Europe, and unless the Astra has taken over for the year, the Golf is still the best selling car over there. Or am I dreaming?

[hyperv6]

VW hasn't really gone upscale in Europe. Pricing is within the ballpark for the other mainstream brands (Opel, Ford, Peugeot, Citroen etc.), even if the odd variant is a little at the high end, but the same can be said for the other brands as well. Bear in mind that in Germany a 235 PS Hyundai Azera is 39K Euro, a 238 PS Volvo S80 41K Euro, and an 231 PS E 280 just over 42K Euro (now you see why Hyundai calls a sub $US30K Genesis a luxury car). Even a Toyota can be more expensive than a comparable Saab or Alfa Romeo (of course, top end engine in the Toyota v. a lower rung engine in the Saab or Alfa). A Vectra OPC? over 40K Euro, more than a Saab 9-3 Aero or Cadillac BLS.

Sorry, I guess I did not explain my thought well now that I read it.

I don't mean upscale as in Audi, BMW etc. What I ment is they are no longer considered the base transprotation that they once were. They are average to preimum mainstream car today in Europe.

Many of the Korean cars and odd small micro cars are now the entry level cars of Europe.

The bottom line is VW is no where near what made them what them a player, basic cheap transportation for the masses. They are no longer the peoples car.

Compitition is tough here today and VW is looking for a nich with the product they for the most part designed for Europe. They are now feeling the effects of what Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat have felt for years. Few Americans really like small Euro cars at the price they cost unless they have something special that draw people to them like a Mini.

I don't see te Smart car sales lasting more than 5 years unless gas goes up and stays up.

If VW could bring a small cheap to but reliable car to the states that could compete with the cheap models from [Yaris like] Japan and Korea it is going to be a tough haul.

Right now may who buy small FWD import cars just can get a better car for less money from the east.

Right now with GM and VW in the battle they are in, it shows even Toyota will have its day to fall and it might not be as far off as many think. Todays auto market is as volital as it as been since the 20's and 30's.

Edited July 20, 2007 by hyperv6

[Oracle of Delphi]

As far as I know, VW is still the best selling brand in Europe, and unless the Astra has taken over for the year, the Golf is still the best selling car over there. Or am I dreaming?

We said in Germany it's considered low class, not Europe.

[ToniCipriani]

The only reason I would ever consider a VW is for a TDI, but even that is overpriced, IMO.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm disappointed that this article failed to bring up VW's market performance peaked almost 40 years ago and has fallen ever since, instead picking the very recent year of 2002, as if it's only been a few years of trouble.

Ironic- tho I'm far from a VW fan, their recent funky ads and the current Golf finally were catching my eye.

Agreed and agreed.... I especially liked the ads that showed people surviving the crashes.

>>"...we all know that's not gonna happen. Neither Volkswagen nor any brand in its portfolio in this market is going anywhere... they're too firmly entrenched in America to seriously consider leaving."<<

Ever hear of a little outfit called Oldsmobile? And they weren't losing anything close to the cash VW has been bleeding for years (Olds was still profitable in 2000 when the discontinuance was announced).

What a shame......

Funny this is the first I've heard of the Dieing VW in a good 2 or 3 years. I guess the media was too busy running Detroit into the gound to notice VW

P.S. Has anyone seen the new Audi ad that has the car sliding into a parallel parking place and then says "Audi: The luxury car for those who can park themselves." I thought it was an EXCELLENT piece! Funny none of the watch dog groups have bitched about it, oh wait, it's not an american comapny, nevermind.