Dodge's Chinese subcompact to cost ~$10k

[Flybrian]

Chery's U.S. car likely to cost $10,000
Analysts call initial quote of $7,000 too low

Link to Original Article @ Detroit Free Press

Chrysler is unlikely to roll out a $7,000 car when it brings the first Chery-made American-brand small car to the U.S. market in 2009, U.S. industry analysts said Thursday.

Rather than hit the streets with an extremely cheap set of wheels, Chrysler and Chery will more likely beef up the Chery A1 to about $10,000 with features and content expected by American consumers.

Shortly after the Chinese government gave the OK to a deal between the two automakers, Chrysler CEO Tom LaSorda said his company would begin selling cars made by Chery Automobile Co. in South and Central America in 2008 and in North America by 2009.

Chery's president, however, indicated that a version of his company's new A1 car will be sold in the United States at a price of $7,000 -- half the price of the cheapest Chrysler vehicle on the market today -- and that it would be on the road by next year, according to reports by Bloomberg News.

Chrysler has not confirmed this and the statements appear to be at odds with what LaSorda said at the official event Wednesday.

The A1 goes for the equivalent of $7,100 to $7,900 in China, but no official export price has been set yet by Chrysler.

The automakers' messages are unified, however, on the most important matter of the week: Chrysler and Chery are raring to go with a partnership that will likely bring the first Chinese cars to U.S. dealerships.

"This is a significant deal," said George Magliano, Global Insight's director of automotive research for the Americas. "I don't think Chrysler can wait around on this thing. Everyone is scrambling to get these programs out there."

Magliano estimates the Chrysler-Chery vehicle will sell for around $10,000 in the U.S. market. "I don't think seven is going to work," he said. "First of all, what's going to sell is not a bare-bones vehicle. They can do what they want when they sell this thing in developing countries. ... In the U.S. this thing has got to be styled right, it's got to perform right, it's got to have quality, it's got to have safety. And you don't get that for $7,000."

Erich Merkle, director of forecasting for IRN Inc., agreed.

"If I were Chrysler I don't think I would sell it that cheap. I think you could sell it for more ... and make a profit off of it," he said. "Why create a price war if you don't have to?"

Merkle estimated the Chrysler-Chery vehicle will have lots of features, such as glowing cupholders, a powerful stereo and other features "younger people expect" and suggested it should sell for as much as $15,000.

"This vehicle probably will be targeted and marketed at the younger generation," he said.

Competition in the U.S. small car market has been heating up as gasoline prices have skyrocketed.

Ford has said it is working to develop a good small car by 2010 for the U.S. market, which already has entries from Chevrolet, Toyota, Honda and Nissan.

Chrysler wants into the game, too, but officials have said it cannot produce a small car competitively in North America.

Part of Chrysler's restructuring plan is to expand its global alliances so the company can bring vehicles to market quicker and cheaper.

Last winter, Chery and Chrysler announced that they had agreed in principle to a deal that would allow Chrysler to sell Chery-made vehicles around the world under a Chrysler nameplate, expected to be Dodge.

Chrysler parent company DaimlerChrysler AG approved the deal in February. DaimlerChrysler's decision to sell Chrysler threw the Chrysler-Chery partnership into question as the German parent company looked at potential buyers.

In May it was announced that private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management would invest $7.4 billion to acquire 80.1% of Chrysler. The deal could be wrapped up as soon as this month.

At a ceremony Wednesday in Beijing, the Chinese government gave its approval to the deal, clearing the way for Chery and Chrysler to craft other contracts over which specific vehicles will be part of the partnership.

[siegen]

So are these things going to perform as poorly in crash tests as other Chinese cars?

Merkle estimated the Chrysler-Chery vehicle will have lots of features, such as glowing cupholders

Headline: Chrysler, first automaker to offer glowing cupholders in entire lineup!

Unfortunately, market analysts predict that glowing cupholders will not save struggling automaker, and that they should focus on making better cars.

In other news: Al Gore's son gets pulled over for driving a Prius 100mph.

[the_yellow_dart]

No, son, that piece on the dash didn't "fall off". Look at the cupholder!!! It's glowing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111eleven zomg

[AxelTheRed]

God, Chrysler...is it really that much of a chore to build your OWN compacts?

I don't buy "made in China" if I can help it, so if I feel the pressing need to get a compact, it sure as hell won't be this one.

[haypops]

First they scared the hell out of us with bird flu

Then it was killing the dog with Chinese dog food

Don't use the toothpaste

Thomas the Train (via China) could harm your kids

Now they will kill Chrysler too

on the other hand they do have this.

really neat train

I wonder if it is a French import or something.

[bowtie_dude]

That looks a lot like the Chevy Matiz...

[Robert Hall]

God, Chrysler...is it really that much of a chore to build your OWN compacts?

I don't buy "made in China" if I can help it, so if I feel the pressing need to get a compact, it sure as hell won't be this one.

This is a subcompact..Chrysler already builds a compact--the Calibre. The reason they are outsourcing it that probably there is no way that Chrysler could profitably engineer, design and build a $10k car themselves, let alone build it the US...just like Wal-Mart, import the cheap crap from China.

[BrewSwillis]

No American manufacturer builds a subcompact in America. It doesn't make sense unless their main market would be Asia, Europe, and South America.......and then why would you build it in the US?? And then forget Asia.....Japan won't buy an American car. The Japanese automakers sell subcompacts in the US, but they just import them from Japan....where a ton of people drive them.

The only reason an American would buy a subcompact is if they lived in New York or Chicago, or gas was expensive.....and gas has been fairly cheap until recently. I like how people think the Japanese are so smart for having a subcompact ready to sell in the US just as gas prices skyrocket....but the fact is that they always had those subcompacts waiting in Japan, and they are now just releasing their large gas guzzling trucks and SUV's in the US.

[AxelTheRed]

This is a subcompact..Chrysler already builds a compact--the Calibre. The reason they are outsourcing it that probably there is no way that Chrysler could profitably engineer, design and build a $10k car themselves, let alone build it the US...just like Wal-Mart, import the cheap crap from China.

Subcompact...my bad.

But you're probably right, it'd be much easier to import the cheap crap from China...but, even though I know cars have come a long way since this, if Henry Ford could succeed in slashing the cost of the Model T time and time again (I know, old reference), Chrysler could build its own stuff profitably if it tried hard enough.

[Clownzilla]

First they scared the hell out of us with bird flu

Then it was killing the dog with Chinese dog food

Don't use the toothpaste

Thomas the Train (via China) could harm your kids

Now they will kill Chrysler too

on the other hand they do have this.

really neat train

I wonder if it is a French import or something.

Amazingly, the train is a Chinese creation. A friend of mine went to China recently and rode it. Said it was pretty interesting.

Edited July 7, 2007 by Clownzilla

[Robert Hall]

Subcompact...my bad.

But you're probably right, it'd be much easier to import the cheap crap from China...but, even though I know cars have come a long way since this, if Henry Ford could succeed in slashing the cost of the Model T time and time again (I know, old reference), Chrysler could build its own stuff profitably if it tried hard enough.

Chrysler does build their own stuff profitably.. minivans, Rams, etc. The margins on cheap tiny cars are so small that they likely can't do it profitably (a 10k car costs as much to develop as a 30k car).

[AxelTheRed]

Chrysler does build their own stuff profitably.. minivans, Rams, etc. The margins on cheap tiny cars are so small that they likely can't do it profitably (a 10k car costs as much to develop as a 30k car).

I was referring more to the subcompacts.

[lanky9172]

i think this is the exact reason Plymouth should still be around. dodge is the muscle car/mid grade before you jump to chrysler and chrysler of course should be more like buick or caddy. i always thought there was a place for plymouth to be something like a chevy competitor or even a kia/hyundai competitor. although it would be highly unlikely for Cerberus to resurect the name plate, i think that a tiny car like this in dodge's portfolio would prove to be somewhat of a tarnish on the name as was, or in some cases, the pt was to chysler (since everything else in the line was more high end and you had the cheapest car in the chrysler corp under the chrysler label-not wise in my mind)

[the_yellow_dart]

Now that I look at the picture, I remember seeing these Chery A1s in China. They look like they're about the width of a Smart Fortwo. They have engine size badges on the back, either "1.1" or "0.8". It actually said it that way on the badge in silver letters too - "0.8".

[Drew Dowdell]

Now that I look at the picture, I remember seeing these Chery A1s in China. They look like they're about the width of a Smart Fortwo. They have engine size badges on the back, either "1.1" or "0.8". It actually said it that way on the badge in silver letters too - "0.8".

yes, but is it a hemi?

[Flybrian]

yes, but is it a hemi?

Chery Revenger SR-Tee with Hemmy-Super-Power!!

Grapple Living by Tusks!

[Drew Dowdell]

Chery Revenger SR-Tee with Hemmy-Super-Power!!

Grapple Living by Tusks!

August 4th.... you owe me another Dr. Pepper.

[cire]

I guess this means that the Hornet concept will not become a reality. I was hoping that Chrysler's deal with Chery would give Chrysler the means to profitably bring the Dodge Hornet to market. I believe that would have been a vehicle that would be able to grab the attention of the youth market and provide continuity with the Dodge lineup. The Chery A1 is not the car that will help Dodge attract buyers of the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, Chevrolet Aveo, Hyundai Accent, Kia Rio, or the Scion lineup. The Chery A1 reminds me of Yugos and Hyundai Excels from the late 80's. Chrysler should have just signed a distribution deal with Chery to sell the A1 as a Chery through its Dodge dealerships and developed the Hornet (with Chery's assistance) to sell at a later date as a Dodge product. If this action is any indication of the direction the company is going under Cerberus, then I don't have any more faith in their future with Cerberus than I had when Daimler was calling the shots for the company.

[BrewSwillis]

i think this is the exact reason Plymouth should still be around. dodge is the muscle car/mid grade before you jump to chrysler and chrysler of course should be more like buick or caddy. i always thought there was a place for plymouth to be something like a chevy competitor or even a kia/hyundai competitor. although it would be highly unlikely for Cerberus to resurect the name plate, i think that a tiny car like this in dodge's portfolio would prove to be somewhat of a tarnish on the name as was, or in some cases, the pt was to chysler (since everything else in the line was more high end and you had the cheapest car in the chrysler corp under the chrysler label-not wise in my mind)

$9,995

$70,175

Edited July 10, 2007 by BrewSwillis

[Flybrian]

The Aveo/Corvette disparity is completely different. Dodge has a similar situation with this potentially $10k car vs a $100k+ Viper. Lanky9172's totally valid point, however, is that Dodge and Chrysler lack differentiation. Who is the value leader and who is the premium maker? Chrysler sells the PT and sold the Voyager for several years. A base 300 is less-equipped than a base Charger. Styling alone differentiates the Avenger from the Sebring sedan. A problem exists.

[Intrepidation]

The Aveo/Corvette disparity is completely different. Dodge has a similar situation with this potentially $10k car vs a $100k+ Viper. Lanky9172's totally valid point, however, is that Dodge and Chrysler lack differentiation. Who is the value leader and who is the premium maker? Chrysler sells the PT and sold the Voyager for several years. A base 300 is less-equipped than a base Charger. Styling alone differentiates the Avenger from the Sebring sedan, that and the Avenger has better suspension tuning.. A problem exists.

[BrewSwillis]

A base 300 is less-equipped than a base Charger.

You'll be happy to know that there is a Charger SE for 2007 that comes equipped with a 2.7L V6 and 4 speed auto for $21K. The base 300 is now $24K.

The "base Charger is better equipped than the base 300" statement no longer works.

[Flybrian]

Okay. Why is the base 300 so poorly-equipped then for a 'premium' car?

[Satty]

Okay. Why is the base 300 so poorly-equipped then for a 'premium' car?

Because Enterprise doesn't want to pay for tortise shell and nav.

[BrewSwillis]

Okay. Why is the base 300 so poorly-equipped then for a 'premium' car?

Who said it was a premium car? It's Chrysler's large sedan that can be purchased for $24K, or can be loaded out as a C model for $35K. Prices and features are pretty similar to the Buick Lucerne, but you can get into a base 300 for $2,000 cheaper.....and the Lucerne can't be had with RWD or 345 HP, let alone 425 HP.

[Flybrian]

Who said it was a premium car?

Chrysler.

It's Chrysler's large sedan that can be purchased for $24K

And you don't see a problem with this? Buick will soon stop selling Chevrolet-priced cars and Mercury intends on having nothing smaller than the Milan, leaving the value market to Ford. Twenty years ago, the base 300 would've been called the Plymouth Gran Fury as it should be today. Having cheesy wheel-covered, hood-propped, anemic-engined, refrigerator white 300 bases running around with Dollar tags on them dilute the premium intentions of Chrysler. Or at least I thought that's what Chrysler wants to be. Maybe they don't care. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't at this stage in the game.

[Drew Dowdell]

Who said it was a premium car? It's Chrysler's large sedan that can be purchased for $24K, or can be loaded out as a C model for $35K. Prices and features are pretty similar to the Buick Lucerne, but you can get into a base 300 for $2,000 cheaper.....and the Lucerne can't be had with RWD or 345 HP, let alone 425 HP.

Even as old as it is... 3800 > Chrysler 2.7.... I've driven both.

Base model for base model, the Lucerne is a superior package... even if just in ergonomics alone. And before someone springs on me with "but the 300 is RWD!".... who the f@#k cares which wheels are driven if you only have a 2.7 litre V6 in a nearly 4,000lb car? If you're that hopped up on RWD, you're probably buying a used Mustang GT, Lincoln LS, 300c anyway.

The $24k 300 feels like a Plymouth....especially with the rubbermaid feeling interior.

The $25k Lucerne still feels like a Buick..... you still get the quiet tuning, and the materials feel better.

[Drew Dowdell]

Chrysler.

And you don't see a problem with this? Buick will soon stop selling Chevrolet-priced cars and Mercury intends on having nothing smaller than the Milan, leaving the value market to Ford. Twenty years ago, the base 300 would've been called the Plymouth Gran Fury as it should be today. Having cheesy wheel-covered, hood-propped, anemic-engined, refrigerator white 300 bases running around with Dollar tags on them dilute the premium intentions of Chrysler. Or at least I thought that's what Chrysler wants to be. Maybe they don't care. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't at this stage in the game.

Things may change now though without Mercedes pushing down on Chrysler from the top.

[Ravenfreak13]

I think that's an issue for all auto companies. If you like the styling of the 300 more then charger, but the 300 is $3k+ more, you are still not going to buy the charger. You'll buy another car.

I certainly would take a G6 over malibu, but if I couldn't afford a G6 but could afford a malibu, I would take my money somewhere else.

[ponchoman49]

First they scared the hell out of us with bird flu

Then it was killing the dog with Chinese dog food

Don't use the toothpaste

Thomas the Train (via China) could harm your kids

Now they will kill Chrysler too

on the other hand they do have this.

really neat train

I wonder if it is a French import or something.

Don't forget lean poisened Christmas tree lights with a Prop65 warning right on the back of each box claiming to wash hands after touching lights because they contain lead and that it can cause cancer. I imagine if you breath in the new car smell of one of these $h! boxes the same thing might occur.

[Drew Dowdell]

Don't forget lean poisened Christmas tree lights with a Prop65 warning right on the back of each box claiming to wash hands after touching lights because they contain lead and that it can cause cancer. I imagine if you breath in the new car smell of one of these $h! boxes the same thing might occur.

A lot of wiring is like that though. I know that most of the packages I've seen of Cat5/Cat6 network cable have that same warning.

[ToniCipriani]

Wouldn't the Dodge Attitude be a better solution?

[Intrepidation]

You'll be happy to know that there is a Charger SE for 2007 that comes equipped with a 2.7L V6 and 4 speed auto for $21K. The base 300 is now $24K.

The "base Charger is better equipped than the base 300" statement no longer works.

Which means we'll be able to buy 2.7L Chargers for 800 bucks soon when the engine blows!

[AxelTheRed]

Chinese subcompact.

Base 300.

Two great reasons why Chrysler needs to resurrect Plymouth. Besides, Dodge just doesn't make sense (to me) as the value/economy brand.

Edited July 30, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[Ravenfreak13]

Dodge should be all about performance(powerful engines, sport tuned suspension etc) where Chrysler should be all anbout comfort(plush seats, lots of chrome, less powerful then their dodge counterparts. Pricing could be simalar, just different packaging. All the "value stuff" could go to plymouth(chrysler engines, dodge comfort).

[AxelTheRed]

Dodge should be all about performance(powerful engines, sport tuned suspension etc) where Chrysler should be all anbout comfort(plush seats, lots of chrome, less powerful then their dodge counterparts. Pricing could be simalar, just different packaging. All the "value stuff" could go to plymouth(chrysler engines, dodge comfort).

I agree.

But, even if they don't decide to bring back Plymouth, I'm sure that the entire Chrysler Group is going to start getting their crap together pretty quickly now that they're out from under the big Nazi-esqe thumb of Daimler-Benz.

Hell, if I were a bigshot at Chrysler, the first thing I'd do is try to resurrect Plymouth just to spite DB. I'm sure that its killing had more to do with eliminating employees and making the Chrysler Group more dependant on the parent company than "relevancy"...Plymouth was beginning to have a very bright future back then.

Edited July 30, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[Flybrian]

Wouldn't the Dodge Attitude be a better solution?

[BrewSwillis]

Which means we'll be able to buy 2.7L Chargers for 800 bucks soon when the engine blows!

2.7L sludging is old news, and fixed. Here's a snippet from Allpar.com:

The 2.7 liter engine had a tendency to generate sludge which caused engine failure. Similar problems have been appearing on Toyota and Volkswagen engines. We were told that, shortly after the first reported cases, Chrysler isolated the problem to the crankcase ventilation system; hydrocarbons were entering the oil and breaking down the additives. This problem has been solved (around 2002-2004), and the number of engine failures appears to be small. However, if you have an engine that might have this problem, frequent (4,000 mile) oil changes, vigilance, and crankcase ventilation system maintenance (or replacement with newer parts?) may be an answer. We have been getting numerous reports from readers complaining that Chrylser is not standing behind these engines.

[Intrepidation]

2.7L sludging is old news, and fixed. Here's a snippet from Allpar.com:

Oh it's fixed now is it? Really...hmm then if it's "fixed" why do you suppose it still happens, and why do you suppose mine is suffering from it now? It's not fixed unless they actually own up to it and help the people out who bought cars with the piece of $h! in it not knowing it would sludge itself to death. Even Toyota settled it's sludging engines...the fact that they of all people owned up to it and not Chrysler is just horrible.

It's not fixed either because the problem isn't just the ventilation, it's the small oil passages that have 90 degree bends that not only make it difficult for oil to move through it freely but makes it easy for it to clog from sludge. Let's also not forget the idiotic placement of the water pump.

It is not old news if it still happens and they have not fixed the problem for owners of these things. Go on ebay and you'll find at least 3 at any given day. There's one down the street that has a blown engine, and a couple on Craigslist in my area. It's not a "small problem"

[BrewSwillis]

Oh it's fixed now is it? Really...hmm then if it's "fixed" why do you suppose it still happens, and why do you suppose mine is suffering from it now?

You have a 2005 or newer 2.7L with the sludging problem?....because if you read the snippet that I posted, it claims that the problem was fixed somewhere around 2002-2004. I was talking about the 2.7L being fine for use on LX and JS vehicles. I didn't say anything about the older vehicles (pre 2004). There's no doubt that some of the older 2.7L's probably experienced sludging, just like Toyota and Volkswagen.

Toyota didn't really own up to the problem either. They can just afford to pay all of their problems away. Here is Toyota's official stance:

Toyota says it knows of some 3,000 complaints about oil sludging in its

engines, but denies its products are in any way defective. Until last

month, Toyota's official response to many of the customers who turned up

at dealerships with gunk-slimed engines was to contend that the

customers were at fault.

[cire]

From the Autoweek website:

"Chrysler-Chery"

"In July, Chrysler and Chery announced they would jointly produce a car for the United States. But first, the two will assemble a car for Latin America and eastern Europe. That vehicle, an existing Chery small car called the A1, will carry a Dodge badge."

"Chrysler President Tom LaSorda says a different Chery-made car should reach U.S. showrooms in mid-2009."

"LaSorda is mum on which model. But sources say a production version of the Dodge Hornet concept is likely to be the first car produced for export to the United States. Chery and Chrysler are doing a feasibility study on the Hornet, say Chery sources. If produced, the car will use a Chery platform and a Chrysler design."

"The Hornet is a long-wheelbase, five-passenger hatchback. It has a tall, spacious interior and rear seats that fold flat, like those in Chrysler minivans. The Hornet is wide for a small car."

"The North American press gave the Hornet good marks."

"The model for the United States would be priced below the Dodge Caliber. Last year, Chery sold 303,671 vehicles in China."

I just read this information this morning at the Autoweek website. I hope these two companies can work out the details to bring us the Hornet. It should be a great Scion-fighter for Dodge. Hopefully, Chrysler will help Chery work on their crash test results (China built cars seem to have issues with this). I just can't see Dodge selling a rebadged Chery A1 over here.