2011 C7 'Vette could go mid-engine?

[Flybrian]

Chances of a Mid-Engined C7 Corvette?

Link to Original Article @ Winding Road

This issue of Winding Road showcases a discussion with some analysts and experts about the direction the next Corvette is going to take and while its all but certain that the C7 will be a front-engine rear-wheel drive car as it has been for over a half century, the possibility is entertained that a mid-engined 'Vette could be sold alongside a tradtional one.

Click here for the article in its entirety.

Quick notes:

• Final designs have been submitted to Ed Wellburn from design teams this June.
• C7 (GMX711) will debut in 2011, coinciding with Chevrolet's centennial.
• One possibility is for a mid-engined platform to be shared between Chevy (s/c V8) and Cadillac (V12).
• Due to hamstrung V8s in the mid/late-1970s, designers heavily explored mid-engined V6 powertrains for the C4. Many of those concepts ended up in the Pontiac Fiero.

[Intrepidation]

So they want to build 2 Corvettes at the same time, on completely different platforms? Hardly sounds cost effective, but cool nonetheless.

[Windy-57]

So they want to build 2 Corvettes at the same time, on completely different platforms? Hardly sounds cost effective, but cool nonetheless.

There have been rumblings for a long time now about GM making a new brand called Corvette. All the models would take after the original in that they would rival the best performance cars in the world, but have a more down-to-earth price tag. So in that light, a mid-engine "halo" Vette to sit next to the current would make a lot of sense.

But don't take this seriously, it's only rumblings and wishing and there is no reason to expect this to actually happen.

[hyperv6]

The standard C7 will be front engine and we go through this every time there is a change in the platform. There are two groups with one for the mid engine and one front. The mid engine guy always lose out.

As for the future I would not rule out a limited car as mentions to be shared with Caddy as a low volume mid engine car but is still remote. The odds are not good but there is a slight opening in the door. The part that may help it is the Blue Devil and taking it to the next level in the future.

But it is a long shot and a lot of other things and factors would need to come together. It is not a priority for GM and will remain so till their house is in better order.

The things that all weigh in on this is the Vette is a affordable 8 Cylinder two seater front engine car to the purist anything else is not a Corvette. Just the same for the 911 owners as it is a rear engine slopping back coupe and anything else will never be a 911 to their owners.

[z28luvr01]

The standard C7 will be front engine and we go through this every time there is a change in the platform. There are two groups with one for the mid engine and one front. The mid engine guy always lose out.

As for the future I would not rule out a limited car as mentions to be shared with Caddy as a low volume mid engine car but is still remote. The odds are not good but there is a slight opening in the door. The part that may help it is the Blue Devil and taking it to the next level in the future.

But it is a long shot and a lot of other things and factors would need to come together. It is not a priority for GM and will remain so till their house is in better order.

The things that all weigh in on this is the Vette is a affordable 8 Cylinder two seater front engine car to the purist anything else is not a Corvette. Just the same for the 911 owners as it is a rear engine slopping back coupe and anything else will never be a 911 to their owners.

Exactly, talk of a mid-engined Corvette has been occurring since the late 50s. And with the current front engine/rear transaxle configuration performing very well - some drivers actually prefer it to a mid-engine layout - there isn't much of a need to make the Corvette mid-engined. However, if they're looking for a business case for a mid-engined supercar for Caddy, why not share the platform with Pontiac?

[jbartley]

finally there would be a CIEN!

[Z-06]

Now that is an uncharted territory, where GM can test its waters. A $60k mid-engined machine, which can blow the snobs from old world which cost at least twice as much. With Audi R8, and MB as well as BMW in plans for a mid-engined cars, it may be an all out war. Imagine how much fun it will it be if Chevy Vette responds to them with vengeance.

If highly successful it will occupy a nice niche like the regular Corvette, a class of its own.

[donpella]

I don't think they should mess with tradition, BUT......if marketed right I think GM may be onto something. I see a brand within a brand here, if they are going to be two Vettes under the Chevrolet name. Two high performance or three, models that focus strictly on performance. The C7 can be exactly what it is now a high performance monster with a affordable price that is half the price of it's competitors. The C7 can be the entry level car of the Corvette brand. The sister cars of the C7 that are mid-engineened can be targeted more up market to enter the bracket of more exotic cars like Lamborgini and Ferrari. If Corvette is moving toward being an individual brand, three very good and awesome cars can do it. Lamborgini only have two names. Aston Martin have three and Ferrari also have three(four if your counting the ENZO).

It can work if it's done right, but since it's an american made product it can't afford to slip in any area, or it will be the laughing stock in the automotive industry. Everyone thinks american products are inferior and can't ever match-up to anything german or Italian.

The problem is, if it is still offered as a Chevrolet what do you call it, Chevrolet Corvette C7.....?

[Z-06]

Dave McLellan rightly said, the cost of R&D is the same for front or rear engined vehicles. Why not make them both and let the market decide it.

As a die hard Chevy Corvette fan and a Z06 owner, I do not think Corvette should be a separate brand.

[the_yellow_dart]

I know this is not really the topic here, but I seriously doubt we'll see the C7 by 2011.

[Cadillacfan]

I agree. Perhaps we'll a C7 concept that shows the design direction for the next Vette.

Also, I really want to see what GM is going to do with the Cadillac version. Will they go Cien all the way or will they turn it into a supercar with Sixteen styling? It makes perfect sense for Cadillac since all luxury makers are putting some serious money into their own supercars. We can thank Audi for making it really popular, I guess.

[Supergrobo82]

I feel like the rumors about a Vette division and a mid engine vette occur everytime the car is redone. I don't think it's going to happen and look where the story is comming from: Winding Road. Who knows they may be right but they lost all credibilty from me and anyone else who's done a tadbit of journalism after the fake devil thing.

[gm4life]

NO! NO! NO! FRONT ENGINE REAR DRIVE... Come out with a new model like... I dunno and make that mid-engine!

[cletus8269]

right, mid engines are cool but not vette cool. besides the biggest gain for a mid engine car is the near perfect weight ratio... isnt the ZO6 just that???

[ZL-1]

The standard C7 will be front engine and we go through this every time there is a change in the platform.

I was thinking the same thing: remember this? Edited June 28, 2007 by ZL-1

[the_yellow_dart]

I was thinking the same thing: remember this?

Somebody even gave the C6 one a name: Blue Devil. Whatever happened to that, and who came up with that name? Was it actually GM?

[Camino LS6]

I'd put this in the unlikely column, however, not as quickly as I would have in the past. This time I can see a few reasons why it could happen.

- Competitors dancing around with a mid-engine layout.

- Ford did the GT

- Most importantly, Caddy may be pushing for it to make a business case for a Cien/Sixteen.

- Imagine the marketing opportunities in debuting a Cien for GMs 100th.

It would be one hell of a roll of the dice for the Corvette brand though, and I'm not so sure it's worth it. I like Z's idea of sharing this platform between Caddy and Pontiac - might be the better route to go.

Corvette is so right just as it is, why mess with success?

But then, that Vette/Cien chop does look natural.

Decisions, decisions.

[Dragon]

well there's going to be a second, kappa based Vette, so I dont' see whats so far fetched about a 3rd, mid-engined version being included in the Vette "sub-brand".

I know this is not really the topic here, but I seriously doubt we'll see the C7 by 2011.

I get the feeling it'll be the concept/pre-production version we'd see in '11

[Camino LS6]

That kappa Vette idea - I thought that it had no real chance? Haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

[Drew Dowdell]

I feel like the rumors about a Vette division and a mid engine vette occur everytime the car is redone.

[Dragon]

That kappa Vette idea - I thought that it had no real chance? Haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

havent' been around much. maybe I just missed it

[Windy-57]

That kappa Vette idea - I thought that it had no real chance? Haven't heard anything about it for a long time.

Yeah, I think this was all part of the idea that GM would spawn a brand around Corvette. You could have a Kappa as an entry model, a front-engine rear-drive model like the one that exists, and mid-engine that would share with a Caddy CIEN type vehicle.

However, I think this idea has been tanked. You never know when it will be alive again, but I wouldn't expect it to happen until GM is solidly on their feet and they feel that they are competing at the level they need to be in other areas.

[gm4life]

They will not have a Corvette brand, a Corvette is a Chevy. Not a Corvette, Corvette, wait that makes no sense!

[Northstar]

I could see the "Blue Devil" being mid-engined. It gives it a more exotic feel and the ability to be higher-performing than a front-engined car. That would easily command the $100+k price tag that some don't feel the C6 Blue Devil is going to be able to command (though they are wrong, IMO).

[Drew Dowdell]

They will not have a Corvette brand, a Corvette is a Chevy. Not a Corvette, Corvette, wait that makes no sense!

Corvette K04

Corvette Z08

Corvette C12

[hyperv6]

Lets put this into focus...

With each new C platform a choice has to be made and this agument always comes up.

When it does come up it always reverts to a nice idea but it is not what the Corvette is about and what the majority of the buyers want.

Add this to the fact the Vette program is under review each time to see if they are even going to build the car in the first place. It has run the risk for cancelation more times than people really know. The C6 even came up for review and only go the go ahead since they were able to factor in the Caddy two seater to cover some of the cost.

You don't really think that Chevy and the Corvette team really wanted to share their car and plant do you unless forced to do so to save the car?

The Vette gets a free pass to a certain extent but there are limits since it is not a profit center. Things are good right now as Chevy is in a better position today than in the past but it can always change.

Unless Caddy gets a mid engine approved I just don't see the Vette ever getting one. At this point Caddy can't even get the go ahead yet on the high end sedan they want and really need.

No I am not going to say this is on the table or will ever happen but Corvette is a brand that could even be sold if needed. It could live on as a private owned company like the Avanti. Again I know Chevy is not planning this but it is an option that could always be put on the table in hard times.

Edited June 28, 2007 by hyperv6

[91z4me]

Add this to the fact the Vette program is under review each time to see if they are even going to build the car in the first place. It has run the risk for cancelation more times than people really know. The C6 even came up for review and only go the go ahead since they were able to factor in the Caddy two seater to cover some of the cost.

Umm...the C6 program got started within a couple of years of the C5 starting production. I would be freakin' shocked and amazed if GM ever thought about cancelling the C6. And I doubt it ever happened and until you provide proof you get the BS flag from me on that one.

You don't really think that Chevy and the Corvette team really wanted to share their car and plant do you unless forced to do so to save the car?

Whoa right there. Chevy isn't sharing their plant nearly as much as you might think. Having seen both lines the XLRs take NO room compared to the Vette line. It is a separate line and has a different assembly process to boot.

The Vette gets a free pass to a certain extent but there are limits since it is not a profit center. Things are good right now as Chevy is in a better position today than in the past but it can always change.

No. Vette doesn't get a free pass it pays its own way. The C5/6 are self funding. Their profit covers their costs and then some. The actual production cost of the C6 is likely higher than only BOF trucks.

And since nobody has mentioned this the Corvette brand idea came up in the 90s and was never really considered. This splitting off idea will NEVER happen and the Kappa Vette was a figment of someone's imagination.

[Windy-57]

Corvette K04

Corvette Z08

Corvette C12

Thank you

They will not have a Corvette brand, a Corvette is a Chevy. Not a Corvette, Corvette, wait that makes no sense!

Believe it or not, this discussion has been had within GM. I don't think it will actually happen either, but it already has elements of being separate from the Chevy brand; when was the last time a Vette wore a bowtie?

[91z4me]

when was the last time a Vette wore a bowtie?

It still wears one!

[Camino LS6]

Right now the Vette is very safe, as it has been for some time. The car is profitable, excellent, and commands respect around the globe.

Mess with it at your peril,GM.

[hyperv6]

Umm...the C6 program got started within a couple of years of the C5 starting production. I would be freakin' shocked and amazed if GM ever thought about cancelling the C6. And I doubt it ever happened and until you provide proof you get the BS flag from me on that one.

Whoa right there. Chevy isn't sharing their plant nearly as much as you might think. Having seen both lines the XLRs take NO room compared to the Vette line. It is a separate line and has a different assembly process to boot.

No. Vette doesn't get a free pass it pays its own way. The C5/6 are self funding. Their profit covers their costs and then some. The actual production cost of the C6 is likely higher than only BOF trucks.

And since nobody has mentioned this the Corvette brand idea came up in the 90s and was never really considered. This splitting off idea will NEVER happen and the Kappa Vette was a figment of someone's imagination.

First off read Dave Mclellans book Inside the Corvette. He points out the peril the Vette has face over the years and at each change since the 70's and up. I suspect he would know since he was incharge. Second the C6 was approved but it was never a sure thing till they got the final approval. Things were on hold for a while per the Autoweek interview around the time the car was intro'd. If I recall correctly it was a interview with Tom Wallace. Also note at the time GM was in a world of hurt for money and everything was on the table at that point so things were really looked at when they went to do the final approval to go ahead.

You can call it BS if you want but I saw it in print and it was from a GM spokesman not some beat writer. It make no differance if you believe it or not as I have nothing to gain or lose here. I know what I read and will stand by that it was stated!

Whoa it is not plant space but number of cars built and the fact they can spread the cost over two division. You have to think in terms of developent cost and cost per unit per plant. Space has nothing to do with anything. Caddy absdorbed a lot of the cost of the C6 when they built their car. It also provided a stronger frame as they needed it for the hard top roof, the Chevy engineers pointed that out. It is easier to justify two car lines and two development cost out of one plant vs one. If that statment was not true would there have been a need for all the kappa variations?

Low volume car at a cheap price need to find volume in some way and more than one version helps a lot. To bad the Caddy has not done better but the great sales of the C6 has offset that. But the bottom line is the Vette boys were not real thrilled in the fact they had to share their car at first but I think they have learded to deal with it and find it has let them do thing they would not have been able to do other wise.

I agree the Vette get no free pass but profits dip as production dips as each C model gets older there have been some years gone by it did not make much money. Today things are better but it is far from a Profit center. It is like the Goodyear blimp, it is a image and icon and will be around as long as it does not drain the company in a hurtful way. But the company will always come first if there is problems.

As for the brand deal it was considered in Europe since Chevy really had no presents there but they did know the Corvette. Now Chevy is there [Korean but there in name] so it is no longer a factor.

As for the Kappa Vette it I never saw more than a V6 concept that really never went anywhere though some tried to convince us it did.

Please if You have not read Dave McLellans book do it as you will really learn how thing have been a fight since the start of the car and how many bad things and stupid things have happend but the car survived. He held no punches and tell it like it was. It is one of the best Vette history boks made.

[Camino LS6]

Sure the Vette's been in trouble many times and been close to elimination more than once, but for some time now it has been quite profitable IIRC.

[dimitri0917]

How about we take this Corvette as a brand idea one step forward...

Kappa based small RWD hybrid coupe

Alpha based small RWD Mazda RX8 style coupe.

Zeta based RWD Corvette Four Door Coupe (Don't call it a sedan!) Maybe a diesel version?

Y-body based classic Corvette, with pop up headlights!

And a whole new platform for a RWD midengine exclusive.

And of course to save money, add available V6s and rebadge each of these as Cadillacs, Saabs, Pontiacs, GMCs, Hummers, and Buicks (Reatta anyone?)

Corvette= RWD front engined Chevy small block V8 coupe.

Why mess up near-perfection by expanding it?

[gm4life]

I think it is crazy to have multiple Vette's in a Corvette brand. That still is nuts.

[Z-06]

How about we take this Corvette as a brand idea one step forward...

Kappa based small RWD hybrid coupe

Alpha based small RWD Mazda RX8 style coupe.

Zeta based RWD Corvette Four Door Coupe (Don't call it a sedan!) Maybe a diesel version?

Y-body based classic Corvette, with pop up headlights!

And a whole new platform for a RWD midengine exclusive.

And of course to save money, add available V6s and rebadge each of these as Cadillacs, Saabs, Pontiacs, GMCs, Hummers, and Buicks (Reatta anyone?)

Corvette= RWD front engined Chevy small block V8 coupe.

Why mess up near-perfection by expanding it?

Haven't you heard enough from the media about killing brands of GM, and here you are being anticlimactic.

Like I said earlier, Chevy Corvette is a car. Not a brand. GM will make a huge mistake if they bring it as a brand. Besides that Chevy dealers will probably harass GM to death for that idea, see how they are having the Lambdas. They will certainly not let an integral car to get cut off from their profits. Corvette is one of their customer attractors.

Making a new brand means investing into many more things, other than R&D or just vehicles. I think it just does not make business sense, given the current state of proposition GM is in.

[CaddyXLR-V]

I like the idea of giving Pontiac a mid-engine car. Make it more upscale, more refined than the Corvette, with a higher price tag. The Blue Devil will still kill it on a track so we don't have to worry about it outdoing the Corvette. The LS3 would work fine, just keep it lightweight~3000lbs. If Pontiac is to be the performance brand, why shouldn't they have a car like this? Less bang for your buck than a Corvette, but more refined, just like the GTO should be compared to the Camaro.

[Camino LS6]

I like the idea of giving Pontiac a mid-engine car. Make it more upscale, more refined than the Corvette, with a higher price tag. The Blue Devil will still kill it on a track so we don't have to worry about it outdoing the Corvette. The LS3 would work fine, just keep it lightweight~3000lbs. If Pontiac is to be the performance brand, why shouldn't they have a car like this? Less bang for your buck than a Corvette, but more refined, just like the GTO should be compared to the Camaro.

[Sixty8panther]

YES!!!!!

Sell a $50K traditional Corvette

AND

a $100,000 Mid-engined Vette.

I'm 100% for this idea.

(still, if they have this kind of money WhyTF is the Sixteen not a "production car" yet)

[ToniCipriani]

I thought in Europe Corvette is a separate brand marketed along with Cadillac already.

And I thought they tried this kind of brand splitting back with the Aurora, and didn't work out that well here.

Edited June 29, 2007 by ToniCipriani

[91z4me]

First off read Dave Mclellans book Inside the Corvette. He points out the peril the Vette has face over the years and at each change since the 70's and up. I suspect he would know since he was incharge. Second the C6 was approved but it was never a sure thing till they got the final approval. Things were on hold for a while per the Autoweek interview around the time the car was intro'd. If I recall correctly it was a interview with Tom Wallace. Also note at the time GM was in a world of hurt for money and everything was on the table at that point so things were really looked at when they went to do the final approval to go ahead.

While I have not read Dave's book I did read ACAR several times and also the GM C6 book that was putout around SOP. Autoweek is a secondary source and should always be questioned. Look at how many times a partial quote has been expanded to mean something 100% different, the Zeta on hold thing for example. The C4 represented the greatest threat to Corvette in its history. The car was old, outdated and ran WAY to long. Many higher ups wanted GM to be FWD unibody cars and Trucks/SUVs. If not for the dedication of the Corvette team and creative accounting the C5 would never have happened. That being said GM never thought to kill it seriously.

Also being on hold pending financial approval is not even close to being canceled. Almost every program is put on hold at some point. It is the time at which the bean counters examine the business case and decide if it will be profitable enough to do or if the business case needs to be redone.

You can call it BS if you want but I saw it in print and it was from a GM spokesman not some beat writer.

You gotta link to this or are you going from memory. Without seeing the exact quote I can't speculate on what it said but I doubt seriously that Corvette was ever in jeopardy.

Whoa it is not plant space but number of cars built and the fact they can spread the cost over two division. You have to think in terms of developent cost and cost per unit per plant. Space has nothing to do with anything. Caddy absdorbed a lot of the cost of the C6 when they built their car. It also provided a stronger frame as they needed it for the hard top roof, the Chevy engineers pointed that out. It is easier to justify two car lines and two development cost out of one plant vs one. If that statment was not true would there have been a need for all the kappa variations?

Sure the Corvette guys didn't want to share their platform, the original idea for XLR to ride on a modified Sigma didn't pan out, and so the suits said this is how it is going to be. But you know what the extra funds that the XLR program provided to the C6 development benefited Corvette. XLR didn't take away funds it added funds. The C6 business case would have been made on its own without XLR if need be.

The Kappa cars have a completely different business case. The LOW cost $19,999 base Solstice was going to be unprofitable based on its projected volume so the Saturn version (shared w/ Opel et al) was added to spread the costs out to make the cheap base Solstices at least doable if not profitable.

Low volume car at a cheap price need to find volume in some way and more than one version helps a lot. To bad the Caddy has not done better but the great sales of the C6 has offset that. But the bottom line is the Vette boys were not real thrilled in the fact they had to share their car at first but I think they have learded to deal with it and find it has let them do thing they would not have been able to do other wise.

But Corvette isn't a low volume car at a cheap price. It is a low volume car at a high price. There is not much materials cost difference b/t the Kappa and Y body chassis. The powertrain adds cost and so do options but overall the price increase is justified by the performance of the Corvette vs the Kappa cars.

As for the Kappa Vette it I never saw more than a V6 concept that really never went anywhere though some tried to convince us it did.

I never saw said V6 concept and I doubt it had a brand name or model name attatched to it. The car if it existed was likely nothing more than an engineering mule.

Please if You have not read Dave McLellans book do it as you will really learn how thing have been a fight since the start of the car and how many bad things and stupid things have happend but the car survived. He held no punches and tell it like it was. It is one of the best Vette history boks made.

What is the name of the book? I may have to add it to my collection. But as for reading it now, not enough time. Barely enough time to get on C&G at all 32 credit hours this semester will do that to yah!

[Cory Wolfe]

I like the idea of giving Pontiac a mid-engine car. Make it more upscale, more refined than the Corvette, with a higher price tag. The Blue Devil will still kill it on a track so we don't have to worry about it outdoing the Corvette. The LS3 would work fine, just keep it lightweight~3000lbs. If Pontiac is to be the performance brand, why shouldn't they have a car like this? Less bang for your buck than a Corvette, but more refined, just like the GTO should be compared to the Camaro.

^ The only thing I agree with, so far.

[dimitri0917]

Haven't you heard enough from the media about killing brands of GM, and here you are being anticlimactic.

Like I said earlier, Chevy Corvette is a car. Not a brand. GM will make a huge mistake if they bring it as a brand. Besides that Chevy dealers will probably harass GM to death for that idea, see how they are having the Lambdas. They will certainly not let an integral car to get cut off from their profits. Corvette is one of their customer attractors.

Making a new brand means investing into many more things, other than R&D or just vehicles. I think it just does not make business sense, given the current state of proposition GM is in.

Uhh... I was using blatant sarcasm. Of course Corvette could never be a brand of its own!

[hyperv6]

While I have not read Dave's book I did read ACAR several times and also the GM C6 book that was putout around SOP. Autoweek is a secondary source and should always be questioned. Look at how many times a partial quote has been expanded to mean something 100% different, the Zeta on hold thing for example. The C4 represented the greatest threat to Corvette in its history. The car was old, outdated and ran WAY to long. Many higher ups wanted GM to be FWD unibody cars and Trucks/SUVs. If not for the dedication of the Corvette team and creative accounting the C5 would never have happened. That being said GM never thought to kill it seriously.

Also being on hold pending financial approval is not even close to being canceled. Almost every program is put on hold at some point. It is the time at which the bean counters examine the business case and decide if it will be profitable enough to do or if the business case needs to be redone.

You gotta link to this or are you going from memory. Without seeing the exact quote I can't speculate on what it said but I doubt seriously that Corvette was ever in jeopardy.

Sure the Corvette guys didn't want to share their platform, the original idea for XLR to ride on a modified Sigma didn't pan out, and so the suits said this is how it is going to be. But you know what the extra funds that the XLR program provided to the C6 development benefited Corvette. XLR didn't take away funds it added funds. The C6 business case would have been made on its own without XLR if need be.

The Kappa cars have a completely different business case. The LOW cost $19,999 base Solstice was going to be unprofitable based on its projected volume so the Saturn version (shared w/ Opel et al) was added to spread the costs out to make the cheap base Solstices at least doable if not profitable.

But Corvette isn't a low volume car at a cheap price. It is a low volume car at a high price. There is not much materials cost difference b/t the Kappa and Y body chassis. The powertrain adds cost and so do options but overall the price increase is justified by the performance of the Corvette vs the Kappa cars.

I never saw said V6 concept and I doubt it had a brand name or model name attatched to it. The car if it existed was likely nothing more than an engineering mule.

What is the name of the book? I may have to add it to my collection. But as for reading it now, not enough time. Barely enough time to get on C&G at all 32 credit hours this semester will do that to yah!

I apologize it was not in Autoweek but the McLellan book and it was the C5 that was on the Bubble. I read a lot and got this crossed up but either way the Corvette was hurting in the 90's.

Page 242 adresses the fact that Chevy was in short on money for the Vette. the 97 was to have been a 93 but was put off if and when money could be secured to bring it to market.

Quote " We were on a financial bubble, and it could go either way. So capital allocation became our biggest hurdle." Tom Wallace, who headed Chevy R&D, fully understood what was going on and did his best to protect our R&D budget from his many competing programs. It was to the credit of people all over the the corperation that, even thought they did not know what we wer tying to do in detail. they had enough faith in us and wanted the Corvette to succeed, so they supported us". Note on this part he directed most of this on money to develope a new car and untill they go the money they held things together and kept working till they could get capital even if they were unsure it would ever come due to GM condition. It was not so much GM would kill the car vs starve it to death. The bottom line is the volume cars come first as that is their bread ans butter.

This above quote was during a time GM based available capital onand cash flow expectations of 2-3 years in advance and they were lossing billions at the time. The bottom line was Chevy wanted the car but GM had little money to pay for it. Dave and his staff with alittle help from his friend keep it going but it could have gone the other way very fast.

On the Caddy

Quote "it make sense for GM and it protects the Corvette's very existence to put more product into the Bolling Green Assemnbly plant. I frankly, don't understand whey GM doesn't use Bolling Green for all it's low volume specialty production models, including the EV-1 and Hybrids" " also the existance of GM's fullsize truck also protect the Corvette. With out these trucks, the small V8 and 4 speed automatic transmissions would become much more expensive-if they remained available at all". [Note this book was written 2002.

Also a story was related the Vette was so starved for capital in 1976 that they had to use the plastic rally steering wheel from a Vega to get the car built. Page 75. He related sales had dropped and GM said they has to become profiatble. They did respond by raising the price and tried to make more per car.

Any way if you read the book "Inside the Corvette" you will learn many times and the many ways the Corvette cheated an early death. It is amazing this car has made it. If not for the Icon status any lesser car would not be here today.

Some of the mistake like the Z51 in 1984 and why it rode so bad is amazing these guys missed the tuning.

The only reason this car is here is due to the many who have protected it over the years.

He does look into the future and many things he has in the book either have or about to come true like his talk of a supercharged V8.

He also addresses the shrinking sports car market and also says many people wonder why it is. He feels the sport sedans have come in ans stiffer compition of other sports cars have hurt. He said that the icon status has helped the Vette as other very good sports cars have come and gone over the last few years due to poor sales after a year or two.

After reading what he has I feel a mid engine is a good idea but the wrong thing to do as a production model. It is everything the Vette buyer are not wanting. I fear it would go the way of the ZR 1 and sales will sink each year after the first. I will be interested how the Blue devil will do in its time. How well the BD does may determine what happen for a mid engine as will Caddys plans.

I would love to see Pontiac get it but Pontiac right now need everyting but a expensive mid engine car right now.

Any way read this book as it will teach you much that you did not know as it covers all the roses and warts from the 60-around 2000. Once your done you will be amazed this car is here today. Also read Zora, it is also a great book and he was a amazing guy. His fights with Mitchell were great. It is the Vette survived the two of them after the fights to see who would get their way.

As for the Vette being low volume. and Cheap is a matter of perspective. For what it does and how much it cost it is a cheap ulturnitive vs most of the cars it competes with. For a collage kid it is expensive. But on the other hand a friend of mine still in collage has a Viper i has lowe milage and used but he owns it and is not what I term wealthy. But he was good at saving his money and got his dream car. If his dream was a Ferarri other than a 308 He would still be driving his Mustang. The idea is the Viper was more than most used Vettes. I should maybe say affordable vs Cheap to be more correct on this.

Edited June 30, 2007 by hyperv6

[Chris_Doane]

I know this is not really the topic here, but I seriously doubt we'll see the C7 by 2011.

Don't doubt it.

well there's going to be a second, kappa based Vette

No we aren't.

[usa1]

Two distinct Corvette models will not happen for a long time. Does anyone think it makes any sense for GM to pour money and engineering into a niche vehicle when they cannot afford the money and engineering to make a minivan? If you think so, you would drive GM further into the ground. The Ford GT did not help Ford turn around.

Mark

[Robert Hall]

The mid-engined Corvette idea has been talked about since the early '70s..the idea of a Corvette brand (like Porsche or Ferrari, w/ multiple models) has been talked about since the late '80s.. . nothing new here.

[Windy-57]

I've read a couple of things on this topic about whether GM has the money to do certain things. Yes, there certainly is an absolute limit to how much GM can spend, but they certainly have enough money to invest in a mid-engine Vette, they'd just have to choose that program over something else. And, that decision is made based on expected returns.

So it's not fair to say that they can't have the money when they don't have the money to invest in minivans. A $100K+ mid-engine Vette would play in a field that GM currently doesn't. It would rival the exotics in performance, but not in price. The question left is how would that affect the current Vettes? I think that's the center of most of the debate here.

As for the minivans, the issue is that it's going to take a lot of money to be competitive and the returns in that market are ever-decreasing. Further, they're already catching (and can catch more) of that market with crossovers.

Here's a question. How would everyone feel if the mid-engine car we're talking about was called something other than Corvette?

[halfasmallblock]

Nice, but not necessary.

If Chevy wants to make a car that is truly competitive in the eyes of the world, they need to ditch the fiberglass and transverse leaf springs. The euro-snobs do not look down on the Vette for being front-engine. I'm very deep in the Porsche world- 928 owners have driven the new C6 and like it, but are afraid that it would squeak and rattle in a couple years. This provides no incentive to switch to a Vette, especially when your 20 year old, 150k-200k mile Porsche still feels like a tank and will hang with a C6 in the corners. Chevy needs to make the production Vettes truly durable, not just their Le Mans cars. Nobody here has mentioned the fiberglass body being a necessary part of Vette tradition, so I think it can safely be replaced with sheet metal.

When Chevy runs out of development potential for the FR Corvette, then they should look at mid-engine. Luckily, FR has much more potential than something like the 911.

[eldiablobanshee]

Just looking at how Ferrari has returned to a front engine layout for their best performing mass produced car with the 2007 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano F1. Tell me why GM can not just throw some carbon fiber on most of the super vette and rap the rest in soft touch and leather and call it the $100,000 2009 C7?

[CaddyXLR-V]

Just looking at how Ferrari has returned to a front engine layout for their best performing mass produced car with the 2007 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano F1. Tell me why GM can not just throw some carbon fiber on most of the super vette and rap the rest in soft touch and leather and call it the $100,000 2009 C7?

Because I would still never choose any other Ferrari over the F430, or even the 360 Modena.