Trailblazer and Envoy not quite dead yet

[Flybrian]

GM sees future for Moraine plant

Link to Original Article @ Yahoo! | Tuesday June 26, 3:09 pm ET

The mid-size sports utility vehicles made at the General Motors Corp. Moraine assembly plant continue to be a strong piece of the GM sales, a GM regional leader said Tuesday.

Steve Hill, general manager of GM's North Central region, said the vehicles -- particularly the Trailblazer and Envoy -- are part of the automaker's portfolio for the foreseeable future.

Hill, who focuses on sales and marketing, was in Mason at Kings Island Resort to talk with about 200 local GM dealers.

"Mid-size utilities have been a home run in the marketplace," Hill said.

The GM Moraine assembly plant, which has about 3,000 employees, makes the GMC Envoy, Chevrolet Trailblazer, Buick Rainier and Saab 9-7x and the Isuzu Ascender.

[Flybrian]

I would really like to see Moraine continue producing the Trailblazer and Envoy on the next-generation compact truck platform. These would exist only as 5-passenger two-row BOF SUVs and be more akin to the old S-Series Jimmy and Blazer in price and market. Keep them tow-capable, offroad-capable, and offer a strong 4cyl, a V6, and a turbodiesel. Keep the SS going with a real lightweight 2wd Trailblazer a la Typhoon.

There is a market for a 5-seat rugged SUV and there always will be. As I've said many times before, I predict it'll be whittled down to the 4Runner, Pathfinder, Explorer (I still don't think it'll be unibody), Grand Cherokee/Liberty, and Trailblazer maybe Envoy, too. But, they'll still sell.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

This is not making sense..

SAAB 9-7x is going away. The Buick Rainier is going away. That leaves Trailblazer and Envoy, but GMC and Chevrolet will have Chevrolet Traverse and GMC Acadia which is doing quite well.

[gm4life]

Shove the new truck platform under them and give them a standard V6, optional TD and a V8 SS.

[Northstar]

They are probably keeping them until the NG Equinox and such come.

[Drew Dowdell]

This is not making sense..

SAAB 9-7x is going away. The Buick Rainier is going away. That leaves Trailblazer and Envoy, but GMC and Chevrolet will have Chevrolet Traverse and GMC Acadia which is doing quite well.

Simple. Nissan has the Xterra and Murano and Pathfinder. Toyota has the Highlander and 4 runner, Ford has the Taurus X, Explorer, Edge, and Flex <coming soon>, Chrysler has the Duragno/Asspen and Pacifca.

If anything, this is GM catching up to the rest of 'em.

[loki]

will/would the atlas 6 get the bump in displacement like the 4 and 5 did?

i could guess they'll sell these for 2, maybe 3 more years.

would these be getting an MCE or anything soon?

[ocnblu]

Well if all the development money is going into the Lambdas, the remaining 360s will become less and less relevant. That is old-GM speak. If they're staying, they need to be either decontented and sold at prices below the Lambdas, or they need to be updated stylistically and mechanically.

[Northstar]

The 360's R&D money isn't going to the Lambdas, but rather more similarly-sized crossovers.

[Robert Hall]

The 360's R&D money isn't going to the Lambdas, but rather more similarly-sized crossovers.

Which they already have...Equinox, Vue, Torrent...

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think people are balking at the price of the Lambdas and GM a few weeks back was giving 6k back on these.

[Newbiewar]

i think they ought to redesign the colorodo and use that platform instead of making their unique platform... the blazer was always a good seller because it wasnt as big as the other ones... you could get enviornmentalists in those old blazers... but not in the tahoe/suburban...

so redesign a home run colorodo, and throw an suv on the same platform...

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Why would you want a 4-cylinder engine in these trucks? And second of all, these don't compete with Nitro/Liberty and Xterra-those are compact, truck-based SUV's, the TrailBlazer/Envoy are mid-size like 4Runner, Pathfinder, Explorer, and just barely (if at all still) the Grand Cherokee . I'd suggest shortening GMT900 a little if these were to continue. Just kill the 9-7X and Ascender-there's no point to them and they don't sell anyway. As for a compact Blazer and GMC Jimmy, I say why not. But stay away from the 4-cylinders there too-they barely have power or purpose in base-trim compact pickups, so how would they fare for an SUV? Look how many Cherokee/Liberty I-4's sold-almost none!

[RJB]

We did have 256 Trailblazers in the pep program here, now I think we are down to single digits. So they must be selling, a guy I work with said he was very luck to tag one. I do know and I have said this before, all the development work and anything else for that matter is done on the Line 6 engine.

[thecarguy]

Moraine, OH will close. It will just die a slow death, not any different than Linden, NJ did.

[u118224]

According to a friend of mine who's a Chevy salesman, he believes the Trailblazer will continue because it can tow. People buy them because they're a lot cheaper than a Tahoe and they can tow their boat, trailer, etc. As I understand it, the Lambda's don't have much of a tow rating. If the Trailblazer goes away, a Chevy buyer would have to go with a Tahoe or a pickup.

[Cadillacfan]

Well, if the Trailblazer/Envoy are going to be staying alive, GM will need to give them each a redesign or at least a substantial refresh that will keep them somewhat competitive with Toyota, Nissan, and Ford. I guess the demise of the truck-based SUVs was greatly exaggerated.

I'm hoping that if GM wants to keep these two competitive, a redesigned and lighter weight platform will be a must.

[Viperfan07]

Simple. Nissan has the Xterra and Murano and Pathfinder. Toyota has the Highlander and 4 runner, Ford has the Taurus X, Explorer, Edge, and Flex <coming soon>, Chrysler has the Duragno/Asspen and Pacifca.

If anything, this is GM catching up to the rest of 'em.

But isn't the Durango/Aspen and Pacifica soon to be discontinued?

[drew770]

I would hope that GM would have used any development money on the Triplets. Big BOF SUVs are not what GM needs to focus on anyway.

Chevy has to shift it's spotlight to passenger cars and light crossovers.

I know there is still a need for these types of vehicles but there is a much faster demand for afforable fuel friendly passenger cars.

[aaaantoine]

The Lambdas should be of the pedestrian people mover variety, while the Trailblazer/Envoy should be of the tow-haulin off-roading variety. Plain and simple. They would compete with the Highlander and 4-Runner, respectively, along with other vehicles.

[chevelle454]

We did have 256 Trailblazers in the pep program here, now I think we are down to single digits. So they must be selling, a guy I work with said he was very luck to tag one. I do know and I have said this before, all the development work and anything else for that matter is done on the Line 6 engine.

Yep, I know a guy that tagged one when there were over 200, a couple days later there were like 24 then the next day there were 4 left.

Edited June 27, 2007 by chevelle454

[Intrepidation]

But isn't the Durango/Aspen and Pacifica soon to be discontinued?

The Durango, at the very least, will not be, the Pacifica is being replaced,and the Aspen will be around for a least a little while.

If they are going to keep these and not redesign them for a while, at the very least they should take the suspension tuning from the 9-7x and implement it into the TrailBlazer/Envoy...so they at least handle decent. Then give them a fairly substantial reskin and redo the interior (and ditch that hideous steering wheel). Upgrade the transmissions too.

[Northstar]

Which they already have...Equinox, Vue, Torrent...

Don't be surprised to see something a bit bigger and similar to the Equinox (in terms of platform type) replace the TB/Envoy.

[daves87rs]

Well, if the Trailblazer/Envoy are going to be staying alive, GM will need to give them each a redesign or at least a substantial refresh that will keep them somewhat competitive with Toyota, Nissan, and Ford. I guess the demise of the truck-based SUVs was greatly exaggerated.

I'm hoping that if GM wants to keep these two competitive, a redesigned and lighter weight platform will be a must.

Nah, I wouldn't put too much money into these SUVs....because-regardless of what they do these two-they are stil going to have to put money on the hood to sell them. I usually don't like to see a car die a slow death-but in this case-I would say yes.

Money would be better spent on the Volt/ Compact/subcompact/midsize car market.

Unless these things could get around 30mpgs...then it wouldn't be worth it.

Actually though-the 360s are going to get an update in 2009 MY. They will get some of the benefits of the 9-7x and Rainier parts bin-as you will see some of this stuff showing up on the TB and Envoy.

I think they also get freshened fronts and rears, and also get an optional DOD v-8 also.

Other than that-I don't expect too much changing...as 360s should be gone by 2012......replaced with something better...

[ponchoman49]

This doesn't mean GM can sit on it's laurels and let this duo wither and die like they do so much else. It's now going on 7 model years with nothing other than some chrome accents sprinkled about the interior and a few more ponies for the L6 since it's intro back in 2002. Oh and lets not forget a grille change on LT TB's!

[prototype66]

A reskin, upgraded interior and the 2 mode hybrid tranny would make this truck catch fire. The body and interior is very dated and well overdue for a makeover. Leave it on a frame for sure and maybe vvt with afm 6 cyl for non hybrid. It would be a huge mistake to remove it from the market. GM knows trucks better than anyone .

Bad enough they took themselves out of the minivan market with a lame overhashed van instead of bringing one from opel to be competitive. now there is a huge gap in the available model selection. Big mistake imo

[DelawareMonte]

I would be interested in a Trailblazer/Envoy if they made them the size of the old S10 blazer and made them to get better gas mileage. My 93 s10 blazer just averaged 25.8 miles to the gallon on the highway. I know I could never get that kind of mileage out of a Trailblazer. If it is kept as a 5 passenger SUV with towing ability, I think it would still do well in the marketplace. Just look at how many S10 Blazer/Jimmys are still on the road from the 80s and 90s.

[K.C.]

I think there's a place for the TB/Envoy. They do offer a more maneuverable package than the Yukon and can still tow a substantial amount. The Lambdas are much larger than the TB/Envoy and not everyone wants a gigantic SUV. If GM wants my opinion, I say keep em around and update them regularly.

[thegriffon]

Bear in mind that GM will be designing a pickup-based midsize SUV for Chevrolet in any case. The only question is whether they will build or sell it in North America.

[ToniCipriani]

Wasn't the "9-4x" caught testing a while ago? Isn't that new platform mule?

[intrigued]

I think there may be a big enough market for midsize BOF trucks left to allow for a redisign of the TB and Envoy, and JUST thoese two, GMT 360s IF they keep the cost down on the redisign.

Here's what you do.

Moderate refreshes on both exteriors, brining the new Chevy/GMC truck looks to them. Same deal with the interiors.

Give them better suspension tuning like the SAAB version and the only major mechanical upgrade would be to give them the new 6 speed auto. The 4.2 with a fast shifting 6 speed would absolutley tear down the roads. Also offer the 5.3 DOD with a 6 speed on both. The only major design work that would need to be done mechanically would be for the 6 speed. The rest you just take from the other upmarket 360s that are going out of production. It they could do this economicall enough that they could get say 100k TB sales and 60k GMC sales would make the business case I say why not let them stay in the lineup?

[cire]

If GM can sell these two (Trailblazer and Envoy) and turn a profit, then I think they should keep them in the lineup. If they are going to let them whither on the vine and become liabilities to the company, then I say dump them.

I do agree with GM's decision to eliminate all the other variations (9-7x, Rainier, and Ascender) and assign the remaining variations to their truck divisions (Chevrolet and GMC). In a gas price conscious world, truck based SUVs are out of step with the times and not needed in the company's near luxury divisions (Buick and Saab). Buick and Saab need to sell crossovers, not SUVs.

If GM does decide to keep the pair, they should be redesigned on the corporate midsize truck platform (Colorado and Canyon). They should keep their current monikers (Trailblazer and Envoy) to avoid further confusing customers who have seen a plethora of model names come and go in the company's attempt to turn their fortunes around (Besides, "Jimmy" does not fit in with GMC's current "Professional Grade" marketing and "Blazer" does not sound as exciting or adventurous as "Trailblazer"). The vehicles should be 5 passenger vehicles only (if a customer requires more seats, then they need to purchase a Tahoe or Suburban). They should continue to offer these vehicles under the Chevy and GMC divisions; if a customer needs/wants a luxury version of this vehicle they can pile options on the Trailblazer or check the Denali trim box for the Envoy. If GM decides that these vehicles still serve a purpose and can produce profits and sales figures, then redesign them to stay competitive and continue to offer them in your truck divisions' lineups.

[pensive]

the local chevy dealerships sell a LOT of Trailblazers in this region.

(Western PA USA)

a lot.

since we get snow and ice and have things called 'hills' to

deal with each winter, i am not going to buy a RWD car

anytime before the polar caps melt, and i have always owned

a truck of some form or other.

my present truck is a GMC Envoy XL.

i would buy another but GM has dropped the XL

and Chevy (which is a less expensive brand) brought out the

Trailblazer SS.

the local chevy dealerships have sold a LOT of the SS models.

i have seen 4 just in the 10 mile area near my place.

3 on the road or in local parking lots.

1 in an auto repair shop getting it's snarfed front end fixed.

despite the low mileage the SS gets, i still like the overall

usefulness of a SUV, the room it has, and with the SS model,

the performance factor. it really looks like a much smaller

truck, without the roof rack and being lowered. my wife even

commented on that and suggested it would be easier for her

to get into and exit. i agreed with her quickly.

another issue...

IF GM had asked me, i would have suggested bringing the

base SS out with a turbocharged 6 ...much like the Toyota Supra.

the below turbo boost range would give better mileage in regular

traffic driving and i suspect that over the boost range would get better mileage.

some of the tuned Supras running here get close to 700 hp

in fighting form so it's certainly do-able.

the SS has vastly improved brakes, which has been one of my

gripes with the regular truck either Envoy or Trailblazer.

again, we have hills to contend with, so maybe that isn't

a big issue with guys from OK or KN, but here, it is.

and a last point.

i am pretty certain that the SS has the fullsize spare INSIDE

the trucks rear hatch, not stuck up under the rear frame.

call me difficult to please, but i am no fan of an exposed tire

with the difficult access in and out and the extra corrosion

problems which i have seen.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well My 2005 Equinox replacment will either be a 2008 Pontiac Torrent or the GMC Envoy. Welcome pensive to G&G.

[CARBIZ]

Just an observation from the Hinterland:

DUMP THE FRIGGIN TRUCK ALREADY!!! We haven't stocked the Trailblazers in a year. I know dealers that are glad to be out of them. Good grief: the truck hasn't changed since it came out, and even then it had some of the worst fit and finish I have ever seen. Give me a Jeep or Explorer any time.

If there was any evidence of the obscene amount of holes in the dike that GM is trying to plug, the latest 'roll-out' of models is a clear, clear sign. The Equinox is going into its 4th year with - what, a performance option? We lost the Tracker and the Blazer, gained the Equinox which is shared with Pontiac anyway, and the Trailblazer is a 6 year old dog.

I have sat back and watched as the Xterra, Pilot, Tuscon, Sante Fe, Liberty, Escape, Edge, Sportage, CR-V - Gad, the list is too endless, have all chipped away at the market dominance that GM once had. It took 20 years to update the Blazer. Sad, very sad.

GM owned this market 20 years ago. The Blazer set the market on its ear in '82. I worked at a dealer then - and it was remarkable when the vehicle was launched.

GM needs small to mid-sized SUV and pick ups to battle the imports at the lower end of the price field and for those who want a smaller truck. Chevrolet has nothing. I understand there is more money in the Acadia/Enclave end of things, but GM can't continue to give up ground to the imports in the lower priced trucks. One of my best customers just showed me a deal he was offered on the Ranger - $8k less than a similar Colorado. Okay, I said, the Ranger is 20 years old, but who can argue with $100 a month on a payment? We have Tracker leases being dropped off left and right. We have nothing for these people.

At $4 a galllon, the Tahoe makes a great boat anchor. The only truck we sell is the Uplander. The Equinox was a great truck - THREE YEARS AGO.

Where is the rumored GMDAT small SUV? We needed that two years ago. Too late now, the Tracker people have all gotten Sante Fes and Sportages. GM has way-overpriced their Canadian trucks and high end cars. I know of people that have gone over the border to buy Corvettes and Tahoes because they are nearly $20k cheaper down there - or has somebody in Detroit not realized the Canadian dollars is damned near PAR? Leasing is big up here, but explain to someone why a new Avalanche is going to be $75 a month more than the one they are dropping off??? (Sir, go to Buffalo, I am sure it's cheaper there.)

Just my two cents.,

[thegriffon]

Rant Rant Rant.

Best selling SUVs/crossovers in July?

1. CR-V 20K

2. Trailblazer 14.5 K

3. RAV4 14.5 K

4. Pilot 13.1K

5. HHR 12.9K

6. Escape 12.4K

7. Tahoe 11.9K

8. Explorer 11.2K

9. Grand Cherokee 10.1K

Most midsize rwd/awd SUVs dropped 25% last month, except the pathfinder (-8%), Grand Cherokee (+4%), Commander (-15%) and Trailblazer (+10%). In fact midsize crossovers suffered just as badly, if not worse:

Honda Pilot -29.79%

Toyota Highlander -23.10%

Nissan Murano -8.61%

Chevrolet Equinox -39.78%

Pontiac Torrent -32.65%

I can believe all the tracker people have bought Sportages, along with all the people who used the buy the old pint-sized RAV4. There certainly isn't much else in that segment since the RAV4 was upsized, and the only other entries left have been in decline (both losing 10K a year). A strong entry might sell 50K in a year while the Equinox, even with soft sales this year, may still sell twice that, and a strong midsize crossover should sell three times that. A Captiva with the right engines might even make 4 times that in the current environment (but badge it Equinox please, as Holden considered doing).

[thegriffon]

I realize Canada is different, but the "small" SUV would not have been much smaller or lighter than the Vue. I can see why they moved to a less-rugged, but probably more fuel-efficient lwb Gamma that could eventually be shared with the Meriva MPV and Combo LCVs.

[regfootball]

TB is still relevant. some folks want a real truck.

what is lacking is a cosmetic reskin and a COMPLETE INTERIOR REDO. a gorgeous interior. with TIGHT gaps, premium materials and attractive design. good seats.

6 speed auto and squeeze out some mpg. safety updates.

these models are a great value and deserve a refresh. my dad would maybe pop for one to replace the S10, he would not spend what they are asking for an Acadia.

this shows you why GM management needs to be hazed. 7 years and no interior redo or other meaningful updates. folks ought to be fired for that.

Edited August 16, 2007 by regfootball

[Derek77]

TB is still relevant. some folks want a real truck.

what is lacking is a cosmetic reskin and a COMPLETE INTERIOR REDO. a gorgeous interior. with TIGHT gaps, premium materials and attractive design. good seats.

6 speed auto and squeeze out some mpg. safety updates.

these models are a great value and deserve a refresh. my dad would maybe pop for one to replace the S10, he would not spend what they are asking for an Acadia.

this shows you why GM management needs to be hazed. 7 years and no interior redo or other meaningful updates. folks ought to be fired for that.

I can't blame them for being a little timid. They probrobly are looking over at Ford and seeing how they refreshed the Explorer with new skin, completely new interior, and more safetly features, but lost their ass on it. Does that mean keep it around and neglect updating it? No, but that's what they are doing. I don't think they have a clue on what they want to do.

[Oracle of Delphi]

he would not spend what they are asking for an Acadia.

This is going to be a big problem, I heard the same comment from lots and lots of people.

[91z4me]

Just an observation from the Hinterland:

DUMP THE FRIGGIN TRUCK ALREADY!!!

That is RETARDED! Every Chevy dealer should carry every Chevy model. At least 1. I mean you don't know how many sales you missed b/c you didn't have any for people to consider. Not everyone knows all the models available. Some people just look for what is on the lots. I bet the local Toyota deaer has RAV4s and 4 Runners on lot don't they? Some people could have rolled through the lot since all they saw were the smaller Equinox and much larger Tahoe. Nothing in their size range=no sale. Edited August 16, 2007 by 91z4me

[Z-06]

I honestly think there is market for those trucks, just like reg said, make it look good.

I hate GM's policy of making the vehicles long in tooth after good sales and dump them.

What GM is not realizing is amidst this Lambda orgy considerable sales of TB are being lost by not giving it a refresh.

[CARBIZ]

That is RETARDED! Every Chevy dealer should carry every Chevy model. At least 1. I mean you don't know how many sales you missed b/c you didn't have any for people to consider. Not everyone knows all the models available. Some people just look for what is on the lots. I bet the local Toyota deaer has RAV4s and 4 Runners on lot don't they? Some people could have rolled through the lot since all they saw were the smaller Equinox and much larger Tahoe. Nothing in their size range=no sale.

GM is not market pricing their trucks in Canada. They are gouging us. Do you know how much we pay for a Tahoe? $51k for a base LT 4WD. The Canadian dollar is at .93. You do the math. I have Avalanche customers coming out of leases and their payment is going to jump $120 a month.

We pay more for gas ($.97 a litre, which is about $3.88 an American gallon). Our trucks are substantially more expensive than the U.S. market. I understand that the Silverado and other trucks do okay outside of the Toronto area, but in the city we are having our arses handed to us. Toyota outsells GM (not just Chevrolet!) in the GTA - not by much, but with 39 dealers competing against 21 - well, the math isn't pretty either.

YOu do realize that in Canada the #1 selling vehicle for years was the Caravan? That the Sierra outsold the Silverado last year? That the Ram is not a distant third?

I agree that dealers should stock SOME Trailblazers, but when a BASE LS 4WD carries a sticker of $41k, freight in - isn't that what you can buy a Tahoe for down there? Corvettes are also dead up here. I know dealers that are stuck with 2007s and trying to dump them for $900 over invoice. Again, would you pay $70k for a base coupe?????

I only WISH I sold Chevrolet in the mid-western U.S. Chevrolet is just another 'foreign' nameplate up here, and despite its heritage and history, there is an entire generation of 20 somethings who grew up with Honda and Toyota - to them, Honda is what Dodge and Chevy were to my generation.

So, yes: I am ranting. I want good GM-DAT product and I want a 4 cylinder CUV to replace the Tracker. And a kick ass minivan. The Trailblazer was a decent truck in 2001, but it is old and outdated.