Enclave Demand Surprises GM

[buickguy]

http://subscribers.wardsauto.com/ar/enclav...ises/index.html

[loki]

maybe 40% of the production.... wow

[Drew Dowdell]

Enclave probably has the highest margin too...

[cmattson]

I wonder how much of this is related to a brand/image type of thing. Saturn doesn't resonate as a main-stream brand -- a chunk of people don't even associate it with GM (there is an up and down side to that). Buick's name doesn't resonate the level of prestige that it used to. GMC has always been a niche/prestige division. It markets itself as heavy-duty ('professional grade'). It's always been a step-above Chevrolet. For people crossing over from a lux. import, the GMC brand may carry a premium. I guess I'm not too surprised by this.

I'm not going to question why Chevrolet is getting a variant of these vehicles; Chevrolet is GM's everyman brand.. it should have something to offer the minivan market segment that these crossovers are targeting -- especially when GM's minivans are extinct. My question is why BUICK is getting one? How doesn't this conflict with GM's B-P-G strategy. You've got overlap not just across brands, but withing the combined BPG network itself. That just doesn't make sense to me.

[buickguy]

A better question is why is Saturn getting one? Saturn is supposed to be small, inexpensive, cars. Does a 40K 8 passenger crossover fit the bill?

Buick definitely needs the Enclave. For many GMC means truck, a Cadillac SUV means Sopranos or rappers, and Chevy is the everyman's cheaper vehicle. Buick consistently outranks all GM brands in quality and the Enclave reflects Buick's styling heritage nicely and the Enclave competes squarely with Acura and Lexus.

[buickguy]

I've always felt better than BPG a marriage of Saab, Saturn and Buick would have worked better.

They could help each other. Saturn and Saab have younger buyers, Buick has older ones. Get them together in the showroom.

Saab has horrible dependability, Buick outstanding according to JD Power. Buick could really help Saab by association.

Both Saab and Saturn need more dealers, and Buick has plenty.

[Drew Dowdell]

I've always felt better than BPG a marriage of Saab, Saturn and Buick would have worked better.

They could help each other. Saturn and Saab have younger buyers, Buick has older ones. Get them together in the showroom.

Saab has horrible dependability, Buick outstanding according to JD Power. Buick could really help Saab by association.

Both Saab and Saturn need more dealers, and Buick has plenty.

And then on the other side Pontiac/Olds/GMC and Cadillac/Hummer

[gm4life]

This is good news indeed. I think the Enclave is by the best looking.

[Drew Dowdell]

The worrying thing to me is that there are no inexpensive versions of this platform yet. While it's great that the high end models are selling, I worry about when those sales lose steam. There needs to be a Chevy version.

[AAS]

The worrying thing to me is that there are no inexpensive versions of this platform yet. While it's great that the high end models are selling, I worry about when those sales lose steam. There needs to be a Chevy version.

A base Outlook starts around $28,000. What other 8-seater (where anyone can sit comfortably in all rows) starts that cheap? The ontly comfortable 8-seaters that I can think of are the Suburban and the Expedition EL (I've never been inside the new bigger Benz), and those two start at $38k and $35k respectively!

[Drew Dowdell]

A base Outlook starts around $28,000. What other 8-seater (where anyone can sit comfortably in all rows) starts that cheap? The ontly comfortable 8-seaters that I can think of are the Suburban and the Expedition EL (I've never been inside the new bigger Benz), and those two start at $38k and $35k respectively!

I understand where you're coming from...but I didn't mean an exact clone of these vehicles.... something more like a short wheelbase version that would take the place of the Trailblazer.

[Newbiewar]

A better question is why is Saturn getting one? Saturn is supposed to be small, inexpensive, cars. Does a 40K 8 passenger crossover fit the bill?

Buick definitely needs the Enclave. For many GMC means truck, a Cadillac SUV means Sopranos or rappers, and Chevy is the everyman's cheaper vehicle. Buick consistently outranks all GM brands in quality and the Enclave reflects Buick's styling heritage nicely and the Enclave competes squarely with Acura and Lexus.

because saturn is replacing olds spot on the chain of premium vehicles

and in my basic opinion... saturn is competing majorly with honda... similar themes... similar customers... similar vehicles... and if the crv is about to become the most sold cuv/suv... then i think... it needs some friendly competition

Edited June 21, 2007 by Newbiewar

[cmattson]

Saturn needs one as they are leading the charge in targeting conquest sales. As I previously mentioned, a crowd of people exist that don't even identify Saturn as a GM brand. Saturn doesn't have the baggage associated with other GM brands. GM can use this to their advantage. Saturn's lineup cannot remain small (Ion, L-series, Vue, and Sky). Saturn needed a people/cargo mover.

I'll step back on my comment in questioning the need for a Buick version. Let me retract that and change it slightly: why does Buick AND GMC need a crossover? It should've been one OR the other. You can certainly make a case that Buick should've been the lone recipient: it will certainly restore some luster to Buick's nameplate. The Enclave looks premium and luxurious -- something that couldn't always be said about some recent Buick vehicle entries. Arguing against the Acadia, you could say that a car-like riding crossover hardly fits into GMC's 'professional grade' personality. I'm simply struggling with the idea that the BPG channel needs both vehicles. I really believe that if the Acadia didn't exist, 98% of those Acadia sales would be Enclave sales -- and vise versa.

[Flybrian]

I've always felt better than BPG a marriage of Saab, Saturn and Buick would have worked better.

They could help each other. Saturn and Saab have younger buyers, Buick has older ones. Get them together in the showroom.

Saab has horrible dependability, Buick outstanding according to JD Power. Buick could really help Saab by association.

Both Saab and Saturn need more dealers, and Buick has plenty.

Interestingly, from what I've picked up on, there was a plan concocted in the late 1980s to create a 'superdivision' comprised of Saturn, Oldsmobile and Aurora. Saturn was to handle low-end, entry-level cars (which it eventually did) while Oldsmobile offered mainstream intermediate to fullsizers. Aurora would've been comprised of three cars - a midsize AWD sedan, a large V8 FWD car, and a large V8 RWD car. The midsize AWD sedan was reworked and presented as the 1990 Cadillac Aurora. The large V8 FWD car manifested itself from the 1989 Tube Car design study that eventually became the Olds Aurora. I know nothing more of the large V8 RWD car.

Obviously, certain other divisions had issues with that *cough*Buickcadillac*cough*. One possible path not taken.

[GMman]

My wife and I looked at a hard loaded Enclave the other day. Not only is it stunning to look at, the materials are first class and the sound of that 3.6 was a real surprise. It almost sounded like a V8.

If the smart ass high end foreign car buyers give the Enclave a look, they'll become patriotic.

I understand the BPG thing. They complement each other, I just hope each brand keeps their distinct identities. Buick will always be my favorite GM brand. What a proud heritage! I never have understood the Saturn thing though... Killing Olds was one of the dumbest things I've seen out of GM. Olds had one of the best overall lineups in GM when they killed them. I remember when Saturn was born. It was supposed to be a entry level economy line with fixed, no haggle sales prices. I'll always be turned off by Saturn "replacing" Olds.