Chrysler admits Sebring, Nitro are duds

[BrewSwillis]

Which one would your money buy?

The Malibu is a clone of every other car in the segment. The Sebring is the only different looking one....whether you consider that a good thing or not?

[Intrepidation]

I will take this over either one, thank you.

[Cory Wolfe]

The Malibu is a clone of every other car in the segment. The Sebring is the only different looking one....whether you consider that a good thing or not?

Being different just for the sake of being different is senseless and well... Look at it. It's ugly.

I will take this over either one, thank you.

It's okay... You like ugly cars... I understand.

[Intrepidation]

Being different just for the sake of being different is senseless and well... Look at it. It's ugly.

It's okay... You like ugly cars... I understand.

You lusted after one of these ugly things, you have no room to talk.

[sciguy_0504]

The Sebring has grown on me a lot since it's debut but the rear 3/4, C pillar area is horrible. Very stupid design. The Nitro only looks good in upper models without all the grey plastic trim and even then it's underpowered. The Nitro looks fast and looks like it could handle well but in reality it doesn't. All show, no go. The interior is horrible, too. The world engines are underpowered for the vehicles they are being used in.

Chrysler has work to do. It's cars are average, adequate, barely good enough. It can do better.

[Phalcon]

At least GM knew how to keep proportions in check with the Malibu. Sorry, but the Malibu owns the living crap out of the Sebring.

Which one would your money buy?

Mine goes to the Bowtie. And, yes, I have seen the Sebring in person ... haven't driven one though, but I have driven a Avenger and I don't think there would be that much of a vast difference. The Malibu has much better styling, better engines/powertrain, handling that is on par with the Sebring if not better, better interior design and materials ... need I go on?

What's with the "ribbed for her pleasure" hood on the Sebring? That looks awful!

[Guest YellowJacket894]

The Malibu is a clone of every other car in the segment. The Sebring is the only different looking one....whether you consider that a good thing or not?

The Malibu isn't all that derivative in my opinion. I'll admit, the taillights may look like they came from the Mitsubishi Diamante parts bin, but the rest of the car is clean and very nice to look at. Show me where you can see another car in the Malibu (except for the taillights -- I think we all would know that one blindfolded) and I'll consider your thought.

Sure, the Sebring may be different, but it does it at the cost of being horribly ugly. You could be blind and know that, really. Chrysler's head was in the right place, but 95 percent of the car got lost in translation.

And lest we forget that the Sebring is sold or going to be sold in Europe. Designing something like that and selling it to a country where Alfas and Opels run about does not look good on our part.

May I christen the Sebring the "Aunt Esther" of the auto world?

You lusted after one of these ugly things, you have no room to talk.

I'm sorry ... but ... how is a 3-Series ugly?

Edited June 11, 2007 by YellowJacket894

[gm4life]

Sebring is ugly on the outside and pretty good on the inside. The 3.5L V6 and 6spd. automatic do appeal to me give me an Avenger. When asked would I rather have a 2.4L Sebring sedan or an Accord Special Edition, I would take the Accord in a heart beat. I normally don't say that, although the Avenger is ALOT better looking amazing to think it is the same car under-neath. I happen to like the Nitro but only in R/T because the rims actually fill out the wheel wells... :AH-HA_wink: At least the Avenger is better looking, I partically agree with Dodgeboy but I would rather have a new Malibu, I see alot of TL, and TSX in them. (I know its not creative but it is something I like!) Toyota is gonna be so pissed a 4 cylinder with a 6 speed automatic the Camry only has a 5 speed with its 4 banger...

Edited June 11, 2007 by gm4life

[BrewSwillis]

The Malibu isn't all that derivative in my opinion. I'll admit, the taillights may look like they came from the Mitsubishi Diamante parts bin, but the rest of the car is clean and very nice to look at. Show me where you can see another car in the Malibu (except for the taillights -- I think we all would know that one blindfolded) and I'll consider your thought.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Umm ... okay. They have four wheels and an engine. Styling-wise, I fail to see the influence.

[Cory Wolfe]

You lusted after one of these ugly things, you have no room to talk.

Actually, it's not all that ugly. Two, I wanted one because I found one. I like the coupe alot more but could never find one.

Yeah... No. Not at all. You're blind.

[BrewSwillis]

The Nitro only looks good in upper models without all the grey plastic trim and even then it's underpowered. The Nitro looks fast and looks like it could handle well but in reality it doesn't. All show, no go.

With a 0-60 of 7.4 sec and a 1/4 mile time of 15.7 sec, the Nitro beats or ties any other SUV in it's class in the 2007 Motor Trend SUV competition.......and guess what??......Motor Trend said it was "underpowered" too. If that's not anti-Domestic or anti-Chrysler bias, then I don't know what is? The Nitro even beats the "sporty" Mazda cx-7 in both 0-60 and 1/4, it weighs over 400 lbs more, and costs about $3K less (as tested in the 2K7 MT SUVOTY)

http://www.motortrend.com/oftheyear/suv/11...uv_of_the_year/

This is a perfect example of people just repeating what they hear, instead of finding out for themselves.

[aaaantoine]

Ah, yes, but they also have four doors, a B-Pillar, a rear window split, 5 split-spoke rims, fog lights, and similar proportions.

That's about it, though.

[Intrepidation]

Umm ... okay. They have four wheels and an engine. Styling-wise, I fail to see the influence.

They are both gray?

I like the Sebring's interior and think it's pretty nice, but the exterior is just too out of harmony. The Malibu and Fusion look far nicer, but I admit they are both pretty plain, which is why I like the Avenger.

[A Horse With No Name]

The Sebring is very cheap looking. I have seen a few in person now, and they look worse than they do in pictures. The styling is bad, and looks like something korean or chinese.

Let's not insult the Koreans.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

All the Sebring/Nitro yuk-yuk aside, the real disconcerting fact here is the Chrysler needs to actually sit down and be told this by someone, whether it be employees or being assisted from an outside firm.

How long has Chrysler been in business?

How long has Chrysler been designing cars?

Didn't Chrysler design some decent cars at some point?

I swear to God that the more you read about how Chrysler plans to 'improve' its failings in styling, management, production, or craftsmanship, the more you realize they have no business producing automobiles. Some of you say, "Well, at least they admit their mistakes...and that's good." Is it? Is it really? Is it actually a positive thing than an 82 year-old corporation repeatedly apologizes and say that their own product is junk and they promise they'll do it better next time mommy? Is Chrysler really getting advice from a consulting group that worked with Hyundai...f@#king Hyundai?! Newsflash, people: Hyundai still makes lousy cars and Chrysler is saying that they can't do any better.

And, no, this is not the same as GM and Ford saying things are wrong. They're saying - correctly, mind you - that their products are competitive if not better and the problem is perception. They're taking their cars and trucks and SUVs out and proving their superiority. You see Chrysler doing that? Of course not...they'd get massacred. Chrysler isn't saying, "Consumer Reports says our new cars suck, and we have to work on that perception issue", they're saying "Our cars DO suck...and we should probably fix it so they don't suck quite so much." Their "extremely aggressive" corrections will - hopefully - take them to being in the MIDDLE of the pack?! What?! Are you kidding me? They're shooting for the same mediocrity and this is Chrysler's own people saying it! Its like standing in the middle of a hurricane and thinking you should probably go get some plywood now.

Look at Chrysler's problems - engine vibrations in cold weather, junk interiors. Didn't these same issues exist with the Valiant? I mean, c'mon. GM and Ford have moved beyond Chrysler's level and everyone else has, too. I don't even know what a convincing argument for Chrysler staying in the automobile business sounds like anymore. And I know alot of you are going to hate me and defend Chrysler because you like their cars and that's fine...but you cannot ignore that there is a deep, serious problem within Chrysler that the other two domestics don't suffer from. I call it 'We Just Don't Get It Anymore Nor Do We Care'-itis.

I hate to admit it but your right, damned right.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

On another note, the local dealer can't seem to keep their Avengers in stock.

Nor can our local dealer keep the Prius in stock.

Chris

[Intrepidation]

Nor can our local dealer keep the Prius in stock.

Chris

What does the Prius have to do with this? Besides that it sells well, and since you're comparing the two in that way that means the Avenger sells well too.

[Flybrian]

The problem is the Lancer architecture lends these Chrysler design to being stunted, tall, and overall chubby for some reason. Even though they're cosmetically longer than the Cloud cars, they look shorter and awkward with small decklids and ghastly C-pillar accents (Sebring). They're intermediates that look like compacts.

[Intrepidation]

The problem is the Lancer architecture lends these Chrysler design to being stunted, tall, and overall chubby for some reason. Even though they're cosmetically longer than the Cloud cars, they look shorter and awkward with small decklids and ghastly C-pillar accents (Sebring). They're intermediates that look like compacts.

Yet teh Lancer doesn't suffer from this problem.

[Duncan]

Yet teh Lancer doesn't suffer from this problem.

That's because it's Mitsu's platform, and they did what was best for them - letting Chrysler, of course, have the scraps. The guys at Daimler could have maybe been a little more flexible with the purse-strings on what is supposed to be a high-volume car. But now it's not their problem anymore, and I suspect they never did see it as their problem anyway. (But that's okay - I'm not entirely convinced by the new C-Class either, so maybe they just don't care in general.)

In regards to the Malibu-looks-like-whatever question...

That's more like it, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. Now, granted, the rear fascia is not similar, but otherwise, there you go.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Duncan

[Intrepidation]

Chrysler should just used a shorted version of the LX platform and bring us this...and call it the new Sebring:

I mean, honestly, how hard is it to screw uo the details. the Sebring is supposed to be inspired by this, so why didn't they copy the front and rear end (especially head and tail light designs).

[big blue]

The heck? You're telling me the Sebring was inspired by that? You gotta be kidding me. There is no resemblance except for the headlamps. That's pretty sad.

[Intrepidation]

The heck? You're telling me the Sebring was inspired by that? You gotta be kidding me. There is no resemblance except for the headlamps. That's pretty sad.

[Ravenfreak13]

The grill, hood, chizled sides, and wgole C-pillar are taken from the concept.

[Intrepidation]

Too bad it all got lost in translaton

[LosAngeles]

Too bad it all got lost in translaton

They couldn't lift it whole cloth, since this car was going to have to share some things with the goofy Avenger (e.g. the cage of the cockpit--for want of a more technical term--hence the outer shape of the doors and rake of the windshield). Plus production versions have to account for whatever country's regulations on cars exist.

That being said, if this car stood alone or was based on a different car (say, C-class), it would be even more interesting than it is now.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Chrysler should just used a shorted version of the LX platform and bring us this...and call it the new Sebring:

I mean, honestly, how hard is it to screw up the details. the Sebring is supposed to be inspired by this, so why didn't they copy the front and rear end (especially head and tail light designs).

Your guess is as good as mine.

And basing any new Sebring on a compressed, smaller version of the LX platform, like the Airflite was, would have made Chrysler that much more ahead of the game. They would have been bringing about another revolution in a mainstream segment. Building the Airflite would have made people think about any mid-sized Camry rival in a way they hadn't thought about them since the late 70s and early 80s. It would have also essentially been a poor man's 3-Series and would have beaten the Alpha Pontiac sedan to the market 3 to 5 years.

But look at the piece of crap we got stuck with. What an insult.

Chrysler, you're pulling a Ford on us here. You are showing us these great concepts with such great ideas and then building crappy cars that only borrow a little design cue here, a little design cue there. There's no logic in doing that. Basically, you either $h! or get off the $h!ter, as the saying goes.

[gm4life]

Chrysler just needs to give the Sebring a nice face-lift in the front!

[Z-06]

Chrysler just needs to give the Sebring a nice lift everywhere!

Fixed

[The O.C.]

The problem is the Lancer architecture lends these Chrysler design to being stunted, tall, and overall chubby for some reason. Even though they're cosmetically longer than the Cloud cars, they look shorter and awkward with small decklids and ghastly C-pillar accents (Sebring). They're intermediates that look like compacts.

Interesting that the Lancer turned out to be quite an attractive sedan.......and looks proportionally correct...!

[Drew Dowdell]

Interesting that the Lancer turned out to be quite an attractive sedan.......and looks proportionally correct...!

It looks like an angry chipmunk!

[ponchoman49]

At least GM knew how to keep proportions in check with the Malibu. Sorry, but the Malibu owns the living crap out of the Sebring.

Which one would your money buy?

Mine goes to the Bowtie. And, yes, I have seen the Sebring in person ... haven't driven one though, but I have driven a Avenger and I don't think there would be that much of a vast difference. The Malibu has much better styling, better engines/powertrain, handling that is on par with the Sebring if not better, better interior design and materials ... need I go on?

I would buy neither. My money would go to an Aura XR in Sport red paint and moonroof.

The Malibu with it's plain generic sides(that looks so much like a VW Jetta), a rather gaudy front end, Korean like taillights etc does very little for me. The Sebring is the opposite with it's silly ribby hood, overdone sides and pug hunchback rear end. The Malibu's interior wins by a mile though.

Edited June 13, 2007 by ponchoman49

[A Horse With No Name]

I would buy neither. My money would go to an Aura XR in Sport red paint and moonroof.

The Malibu with it's plain generic sides(that looks so much like a VW Jetta), a rather gaudy front end, Korean like taillights etc does very little for me. The Sebring is the opposite with it's silly ribby hood, overdone sides and pug hunchback rear end. The Malibu's interior wins by a mile though.

Let's not forget that the Malibu is just plain better put together also. I'd much rather live with a 3 year old 50,000 mile Malibu than a 3 year old 50,000 mile Sebring.

Chris

[BrewSwillis]

Let's not forget that the Malibu is just plain better put together also. I'd much rather live with a 3 year old 50,000 mile Malibu than a 3 year old 50,000 mile Sebring.

Chris

How can a car that's not even being built yet be "better put together" than anything??

[Ravenfreak13]

Hes talking about 3 YEAR OLD MALIBU not new. But still, the last gen sebring was absolutelly nothing special therfore I can agree with you for the most except neither was the malibu so...?

[ocnblu]

The new Lancer looks like a Japanimation character... not a good thing. It also looks like it is under-tired, narrow-tracked compared to the body width, like it is in a perpetual turn, like the wheels are turned under, I don't know... the relationship between the wheels and the body is just all wrong on the Lancer.

The Avenger is night-and-day better looking than the Sebring, imo. The Sebring is an insult to the cool Airflite concept. Of course, I'd take the Malibu over either of the Mopars, and of course the goofy Lancer.

[bcs296]

I'm not surprised at all by the bashing of the Sebring, I don't think it is pleasing to the eye at all, interior or exterior.

I am surprised, however, by the bashing of the Avenger. I think it's exterior styling is awesome. It is far more aggressive and distinctive than any other midsize car but still looks handsome. You see an Avenger and could never mistake it for anything else. The interior is not mind blowing but it is somewhat stylish and clean and the car has nice amenities.

If I was going to buy a V6 midsize car, the Avenger would be hard to beat.

I'm also surprised by the Hyundai bashing. Hyundai is making some very nice cars today, even if their exterior styling is boring and copied from Honda/Toyota. When the Veracruz beats the Lexus RX350 in Motor Trend, you can't honestly say they are doing half bad.

[daves87rs]

I'm not surprised at all by the bashing of the Sebring, I don't think it is pleasing to the eye at all, interior or exterior.

I am surprised, however, by the bashing of the Avenger. I think it's exterior styling is awesome. It is far more aggressive and distinctive than any other midsize car but still looks handsome. You see an Avenger and could never mistake it for anything else. The interior is not mind blowing but it is somewhat stylish and clean and the car has nice amenities.

If I was going to buy a V6 midsize car, the Avenger would be hard to beat.

I'm also surprised by the Hyundai bashing. Hyundai is making some very nice cars today, even if their exterior styling is boring and copied from Honda/Toyota. When the Veracruz beats the Lexus RX350 in Motor Trend, you can't honestly say they are doing half bad.

The higher end Avengers are nice...but the base ones are pretty bad. I drove both-big difference. I'm guessing the slams are more on the base models....

As far as the Verzcruz, It wowed me-but I will be interested to see how that lux holds up. I know the lexus will...

[Cory Wolfe]

I am surprised, however, by the bashing of the Avenger. I think it's exterior styling is awesome. It is far more aggressive and distinctive than any other midsize car but still looks handsome. You see an Avenger and could never mistake it for anything else. The interior is not mind blowing but it is somewhat stylish and clean and the car has nice amenities.

If I was going to buy a V6 midsize car, the Avenger would be hard to beat.

Honestly, its styling is just a cobbled together mess. Yes, it's not going to be mistaken for anything else, but at the sake of looking like ass. To me, it has bad design written all over it, from the truck-like front fascia to the horrible proportions and jacked up rear. It's just all wrong.

[Intrepidation]

Honestly, its styling is just a cobbled together mess. Yes, it's not going to be mistaken for anything else, but at the sake of looking like ass. To me, it has bad design written all over it, from the truck-like front fascia to the horrible proportions and jacked up rear. It's just all wrong.

And there you go, a subjective opinion, not fact. I have nothing wrong with it as an opinion, but everything you stated is just that.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Cory Wolfe]

And there you go, a subjective opinion, not fact. I have nothing wrong with it as an opinion, but everything you stated is just that.

WTF? What else is it supposed to be? Anything stated on design is subjective and an opinion. I feel obliged to call you a dumbass.

As I said, it me its a bad design and a cobbled together mess. Maybe being a perfectionist and someone who plans to design vehicles for life has something to do with that. With a design, there has to be flow... everything has to look right, like it belongs. Look at an Avenger and you'll see the exact opposite. The front doesn't mesh with the sides, the sides don't mesh with the greenhouse, the greenhouse doesn't mesh with the rear, the rear doesn't mesh with the front, and so on.

[Intrepidation]

WTF? What else is it supposed to be? Anything stated on design is subjective and an opinion. I feel obliged to call you a dumbass.

As I said, it me its a bad design and a cobbled together mess. Maybe being a perfectionist and someone who plans to design vehicles for life has something to do with that. With a design, there has to be flow... everything has to look right, like it belongs. Look at an Avenger and you'll see the exact opposite. The front doesn't mesh with the sides, the sides don't mesh with the greenhouse, the greenhouse doesn't mesh with the rear, the rear doesn't mesh with the front, and so on.

And I feel obliged to call you a stupid f@#king asshole. You met a mature response with name recalling. Good on you.

The only real flaws in the design are the roofline and the back triangle behind the rear windows. But that is still a matter of opinion. There are plenty of people who like the styling and have no problem with it, just as there are plenty who dislike it, and those who like or dislike Mazda designs. We can discuss to death how good it may or may not be, but everything stated thus far is mere opinion. I see no need to go into details since you threw civility out the window. You go on and on about how you don't like a car's design, so automatically is must be a failure, and everyone should agree with you that it is a bad design, at least this is how many of your posts seem like.

Edited June 19, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Flybrian]

Whoa, guys...don't know what's uglier - the Sebring or this thread. There's no need for that language or hostility towards each other. Ya'll know what I mean. Let's keep it cool and friendly.

Thanks.

[A Horse With No Name]

Hey, while I am not a fanboi of the Sebring I am a fanboi of Dodgefan and his rather intelligent posts.

If it makes you feel any better I will go down to my local Dodge dealer and test drive an Avenger.

Seriously...compared to everything else out there the Avenger is not a bad looking car. Not my cup of tea but not a bad looking car.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

Hes talking about 3 YEAR OLD MALIBU not new. But still, the last gen sebring was absolutelly nothing special therfore I can agree with you for the most except neither was the malibu so...?

...so from a subjective seat of the pants standpoint in my opinion the Malibu is a better car.

I am really excited to see what the next generation of Malibu brings.

Chris

[Cory Wolfe]

And I feel obliged to call you a stupid f@#king asshole. You met a mature response with name recalling. Good on you.

The only real flaws in the design are the roofline and the back triangle behind the rear windows. But that is still a matter of opinion. There are plenty of people who like the styling and have no problem with it, just as there are plenty who dislike it, and those who like or dislike Mazda designs. We can discuss to death how good it may or may not be, but everything stated thus far is mere opinion. I see no need to go into details since you threw civility out the window. You go on and on about how you don't like a car's design, so automatically is must be a failure, and everyone should agree with you that it is a bad design, at least this is how many of your posts seem like.

I was simply stating my opinion on the matter. I didn't feel as if your post was mature, I felt it was belittling as you picked out an opinion. If you didn't agree with it, you shouldn't have said anything. I'm also not the one that threw civility out the window. My opinion is my opinion. Nothing more, nothing less. If it seems otherwise to you, you're reading too far into it.

Whoa, guys...don't know what's uglier - the Sebring or this thread. There's no need for that language or hostility towards each other. Ya'll know what I mean. Let's keep it cool and friendly.

Thanks.

I apologize for my post. It wasn't meant as a hostile post, it was to make a point. Sorry.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Look at an Avenger and you'll see the exact opposite. The front doesn't mesh with the sides, the sides don't mesh with the greenhouse, the greenhouse doesn't mesh with the rear, the rear doesn't mesh with the front, and so on.

Are you sure you're not talking about my Mother-In-Law?