Tundra - Holy box flex!!

[BuddyP]

This was a video obviously put together by Ford marketing, and compares the new Silverado and Tundra to the F150. Apparently 28mph is the harmonic sweet spot for the Ford (why not 25 or 30mph?). Anyway, Looks like the F150 and Silverado were dam near equal, but the Tundra is flopping all over the place!

[Drew Dowdell]

The Silvi had some control issues though. It's to be expected from a solid rear axle.

Ford should be playing that Toyota vid over and over and over and over.......

[BuddyP]

The Silvi had some control issues though. It's to be expected from a solid rear axle.

Ford should be playing that Toyota vid over and over and over and over.......

Silvi had control issues at 28mph, My guess is the Ford would have em at 32mph. Also if they used the softer non Z71 then control issues might have been gone at that speed.

I'd like to see em play the Tundra part in their comercials though!

[Drew Dowdell]

I"m interested in seeing how an Avalanche would have gone through the course since it's bed is not separate from the cab.

[JT64]

Notice the Tundra had the least cabin movement.

The flexing rear frame was designed for NVH.

NVH was the whole point of the "Triple Tech".

Strong engine bay and cabin frames to withstand crashes (which didn't completely work 4/5), and flexing rear to take out NVH.

It's what Tundra buyers want.

Hauling stuff in the bed? Are you kidding? Don't scratch my truck.

Swords come in solid European unbendable but brittle hard steel, and samurai and taichi spring steels designed to flex.

More of a build preference, and its intended objective.

Is there any proof that flexing reduces vehicle durability, if the structure was designed to flex in the first place?

A structure that was not designed to flex will break when flexed,

but a structure designed to flex will be durable when flexed.

Many civil engineering structures are designed to flex for higher durability, such as buildings and bridges in earthquake zones.

Aircraft wings are designed to flex to withstand strong winds.

Older, nonflexing aircraft wings just get ripped off.

Edited June 7, 2007 by JT64

[Drew Dowdell]

you think that the bed bouncing around like that actually reduces Noise, Harshness, and Vibration?

It's the suspension's job to absorb road imperfections, not the truck bed.

[toesuf94]

Please notice the relative angle of the shot on the Ford take versus the other two. At the Chevy and the Tundra both, they are filming almost directly at a 45 degree angle directly aimed at the tailights...on the Ford they are more directly to the bedside, at less of an angle and higher, so that the bed hop is not as readily noticable. Stop the superimposed shot at 2:23 and you will see what I am talking about. Same with the rear shots...And not to nit-pick - but I would love to know how high they set the tire pressures on the competition's trucks - the tires on the Chevrolet and the Toy look like rocks with no flex at all! It is a wonder they were trying to fly apart!

The Tundra does flex a lot, and for the bed to hit the back of the cab like that shows a lot mre movement then I would be comfy with.

While this is a great test - how many of us in the real world keep our trucks at a steady pace when traveling a washboard surface? Personally, I slow down!

[JT64]

you think that the bed bouncing around like that actually reduces Noise, Harshness, and Vibration?

Yes, I think so, as it was designed to do so.

It may look funny, as many engineering projects do. But engineer geeks care less about looks than getting the job done.

As Toyota's press release claims, the TripleTech's purpose is "maximize strength, ride quality, and durability."

We'll see in a few years.

but Toyotas are geeks man. They don't care about how it looks.

Edited June 7, 2007 by JT64

[aaaantoine]

If the Tundra bed is shaking that much, what about the cargo inside it? Loose cargo will bounce around and potentially hurt someone if it is projectiled from the cab. Bed caps and covers could shatter or break over rough terrain such as that. Has Toyota taken this into consideration.

.

Also, if you buy a pick-up truck and don't use it like one - you know, at least once or twice - I would like to understand the logic behind it.

Edited June 7, 2007 by aaaantoine

[Drew Dowdell]

Yes, I think so, as it was designed to do so.

It may look funny, as many engineering projects do. But engineer geeks care less about looks than getting the job done.

As Toyota's press release claims, the TripleTech's purpose is "maximize strength, ride quality, and durability."

We'll see in a few years.

but Toyotas are geeks man. They don't care about how it looks.

I see you missed this part:

It's the suspension's job to absorb road imperfections, not the truck bed.

[JT64]

It's the suspension's job to absorb road imperfections, not the truck bed.

Yes I see I missed that part. I was short on time.

Truck suspensions have another priority, payload and towing.

There's only so much a leaf spring can do. I'm sure you understand.

Putting brand wars aside, the boxed/C-channel flex frame is an interesting approach that hasn't been tried.

(Or perhaps it has and I'm not going to bother researching.)

So only the future record can tell.

Edited June 7, 2007 by JT64

[regfootball]

timing belts

poor crash performance for a seriously heavy vehicle

snapping camshafts

piano black trim in a utility vehicle

they don't get it yet

[toesuf94]

timing belts

poor crash performance for a seriously heavy vehicle

snapping camshafts

piano black trim in a utility vehicle

they don't get it yet

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL OF THE NEGATIVITY ABOUT THE PIANO BLACK TRIM IN THESE TRUCKS AS IT MAKES MY CHEVY'S INTERIOR THAT MUCH BETTER!! LET IT GO MAN!

The camshaft thing does bother me though - they have been making Overhead Cam engines for like a bazillion years now. They should have that pretty much down by now you would think. It would be kind of like GM making a new 4 speed automatic that didn't work...it just should not happen.

As for the poor crash test results, Toyota spokesperson Trisha Talkinowa stated that the engineers at the crash test facility misinterpreted the data due to the "engineered flex in the front of the chassis designed to lesson the NVH of the deformable barrier contacting the front bumper. Once the engineers at the crash facility are paid off..er trained to better understand how the Tundra crashes in a quieter way than the lessor made competitors' trucks, I am sure the Tundra will garner the expected 6-star safety rating it deserved."

[Northstar]

The Tundra looks like it's made out of Jello. The Silverado must be very stiff, it was getting some serious air!

[balthazar]

>>"The flexing rear frame was designed for NVH.

...if the structure was designed to flex in the first place?

...a structure designed to flex will be durable when flexed."<<

I for one am not nearly so ready to assume the frame issue was 100% intentional: new vehicle, new segment, new frame, new plant. And legendary spin doctoring.

Others may choose to accept manufacturer PR word-for-word...

[regfootball]

I AM SICK AND TIRED OF ALL OF THE NEGATIVITY ABOUT THE PIANO BLACK TRIM IN THESE TRUCKS AS IT MAKES MY CHEVY'S INTERIOR THAT MUCH BETTER!! LET IT GO MAN!

The camshaft thing does bother me though - they have been making Overhead Cam engines for like a bazillion years now. They should have that pretty much down by now you would think. It would be kind of like GM making a new 4 speed automatic that didn't work...it just should not happen.

As for the poor crash test results, Toyota spokesperson Trisha Talkinowa stated that the engineers at the crash test facility misinterpreted the data due to the "engineered flex in the front of the chassis designed to lesson the NVH of the deformable barrier contacting the front bumper. Once the engineers at the crash facility are paid off..er trained to better understand how the Tundra crashes in a quieter way than the lessor made competitors' trucks, I am sure the Tundra will garner the expected 6-star safety rating it deserved."

YOU MUST PEE ORANGE FROM ALL THE KOOL AID YOU ARE DRINKING.

"My tundra looks ugly because they designed the sheetmetal to flex at the right harmonic frequency when hitting freeway expansion joints"

you must have never done manual labor on a job site, or construction work or farm work. a half a day on a farm site or job site and that piano black will look disgusting and slimy and be a beeoch to clean. trucks are for work, not for admiring the reflection of your manicured hands in the glow of the piano black trim.

Edited June 7, 2007 by regfootball

[ocnblu]

I'd love to see it, but I can't get the damn thing to play... all it does is go around in circles.

[toesuf94]

YOU MUST PEE ORANGE FROM ALL THE KOOL AID YOU ARE DRINKING.

"My tundra looks ugly because they designed the sheetmetal to flex at the right harmonic frequency when hitting freeway expansion joints"

you must have never done manual labor on a job site, or construction work or farm work. a half a day on a farm site or job site and that piano black will look disgusting and slimy and be a beeoch to clean. trucks are for work, not for admiring the reflection of your manicured hands in the glow of the piano black trim.

Please see "sarcasm" in the dictionary. I am 1000000000000% ANTI-Toyota. The only thing I like about Toyota is the sound they make when they get crushed!

[FAPTurbo]

As for the poor crash test results, Toyota spokesperson Trisha Talkinowa stated that the engineers at the crash test facility misinterpreted the data due to the "engineered flex in the front of the chassis designed to lesson the NVH of the deformable barrier contacting the front bumper.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'd love to see it, but I can't get the damn thing to play... all it does is go around in circles.

I'm not allowing you to see it! Feel the power of the Dark Side.

[Nick]

:rotflmao:

[regfootball]

Please see "sarcasm" in the dictionary. I am 1000000000000% ANTI-Toyota. The only thing I like about Toyota is the sound they make when they get crushed!

oh.

[plane]

Geez. What's the big deal?

Everybody knows it's a design feature.

Whu?

Huh?

Why is everybody laughing at that?

What's so funny about a Tundra flying apart?

A little bed scrapage never hurt anyone.

[JT64]

Here's GM's event where the Silverado wins all tests, graded on the criteria set by GM, on the courses designed by GM...

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...ION03/706070350

http://info.detnews.com/pix/photogalleries...rucks/index.htm

Edited June 8, 2007 by JT64

[JT64]

timing belts

reg stop the internet rumors... what made you decide to start that one?

http://carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=21005&page=9

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/07tundra.htm

The Tundra has 3 timing chains. Apparently this is how you get a full-sized truck from 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

Edited June 8, 2007 by JT64

[Drew Dowdell]

reg stop the internet rumors... what made you decide to start that one?

http://carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=21005&page=9

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/07tundra.htm

The Tundra has 3 timing chains. Apparently this is how you get a full-sized truck from 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

just don't spin those cams to fast or she'll fly apart Capt'n!

[grandmarquis]

Interesting vid. the F150 impressed me a lot how steady it looked, and the Silverado didn't look too bad either. The a$$ end of the Turdra reminded me of a big fat broad trying to dance... and equally repulsive. Kinda like vehicular cellulite.

Edited June 8, 2007 by grandmarquis

[grandmarquis]

reg stop the internet rumors... what made you decide to start that one?

http://carspyshots.net/zerothread?id=21005&page=9

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pw/07tundra.htm

The Tundra has 3 timing chains. Apparently this is how you get a full-sized truck from 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

Gotta defend Reg here, he isn't spreading any rumors. The small V8 (4.7L ?), probably their bread-and-butter engine, and probably the most common engine for the Turdra, has a timing BELT. Brilliant! not... Edited June 8, 2007 by grandmarquis

[plane]

reg stop the internet rumors... what made you decide to start that one?

...

The Tundra has 3 timing chains. Apparently this is how you get a full-sized truck from 0-60 in 6.0 seconds.

With the 5.7.

Anyone care to guess what's hiding beneath the covers for the 4.7?

[ichbinjohnk]

With the 5.7.

Anyone care to guess what's hiding beneath the covers for the 4.7?

Either a poodle or one of those kidnapped children that never actually escaped in "The Temple of Doom." Ofcourse, he'd be quite old now.

[Sixty8panther]

The Tundra sucks, plain & simple. There's no getting around

that bed bouncing like a piece of amethist in a tumbler.

[Intrepidation]

Either a poodle or one of those kidnapped children that never actually escaped in "The Temple of Doom." Ofcourse, he'd be quite old now.

Have you ever seen the Japanese Yaris commercial where they have people doing the work of the engine, wipers and so on? They put of few of those guys in there. :AH-HA_wink:

[deftonesfan867]

You notice that NOBODY that I know of in the media has tested the 4.7? Perhaps I should do a search, but I have a feeling Toyota hasn't allowed any of em to be tested. And most of the Tundra's I've seen on the road have been with that motor, NOT the 5.7.

Edited June 8, 2007 by deftonesfan867

[Duncan]

You notice that NOBODY that I know of in the media has tested the 4.7? Perhaps I should do a search, but I have a feeling Toyota hasn't allowed any of em to be tested. And most of the Tundra's I've seen on the road have been with that motor, NOT the 5.7.

Come to think of that, the Tundra that Car and Driver just did a comparo with was noted as a "near-production" example...possibly some strengthening being done by those magical Kaizen engineers for the press models?

I had no idea the 4.7 used belts - that's sad. I'm sure it's quieter (it is based on the old Lexus design, after all), but I think most of the engineering world has begun to agree that powerful multi-cylinder engines deserve chains these days.

[76ChevyTrucker]

Yes, I'd like the new milk shake maker bed option on my Atomic Tadpole.....sheesh....I'm willing to wager that the bed on my 31 year old pickup doesn't dance around like that one...

[ponchoman49]

timing belts

poor crash performance for a seriously heavy vehicle

snapping camshafts

piano black trim in a utility vehicle

they don't get it yet

Don't forget:

Substantialy higher base sticker prices

Kidney jarring ride

Lower MPG ratings with 4.7 and 5.7 liter V8's

A super dash design that puts NAV screen completely out of drivers' reach and looks like 2 dashes blended into one with hard to read guages

A gas cap cover that feels like it's going to break off in your hand

4 door models with a near half sized window for that awesome rear visibilty

Cheaper interior materials than the top competitors

Ugly pudgy Atomic tadpole styling

Oh and that awesome 5.7 liter V8 that everyone is raving about, you know the one they have to replace under warrenty everytime you go 6500RPM's

Edited June 15, 2007 by ponchoman49

[Drew Dowdell]

I can't imagine why you'd need... or want... a truck engine to go 6500rpm.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Don't worry, just like with the engine issue(s) I'm sure Toyota PR (READ the american media) will cover this up.

BTW, why hasn't Ford advertised this?!?!

It's sad, because since I've come home (To my very liberal/greenie &#036;h&#33;bag of a hometown) I've seen more Turdras then I saw thew whole time in school at Charlotte. I'm sure everyone thinks their pigs are saving the earth via "spectacular" gas mileage and reliability, after all, Consumer Reports said so...

[mustang84]

It's sad, because since I've come home (To my very liberal/greenie &#036;h&#33;bag of a hometown) I've seen more Turdras then I saw thew whole time in school at Charlotte. I'm sure everyone thinks their pigs are saving the earth via "spectacular" gas mileage and reliability, after all, Consumer Reports said so...

And I'm sure Toyota is laughing themselves to the bank...

[DenCo]

I heard, from a nice sane person who saw the video, that obviously Ford had weakened the welds and loosened all the bolts in the Tundra.

[gm4life]

The Ford has an indepent rear, no suprise. The Chevy did a good job the Turd was all over. And I also saw some Toyota dealerships towing F-150's and Silvy's away. Only problem is that the Silvy they used wasn't a Vortec Max, and the Turd was a 5.7L... Is the 403hp coming next year?

[grandmarquis]

The F150 does NOT have IRS, it has a straight axle like the rest. It does however have shocks that are mounted about as far outboard as possible.

[The O.C.]

You notice that NOBODY that I know of in the media has tested the 4.7? Perhaps I should do a search, but I have a feeling Toyota hasn't allowed any of em to be tested. And most of the Tundra's I've seen on the road have been with that motor, NOT the 5.7.

Uh.....5.7L is running something like 70% penetration.

[balthazar]

Sure: like any new launch, the higher content/option vehicles sell initially to the many impulse buyers. In light of fuel prices and once the newness wears off (in light of the incentives siutation, seemingly soon), that's unlikely to be sustainable.

Regardless, it still does not excuse a timing belt design in 2007.

Nothing about GM's 4-spd automatics will strand the motorist just because it's got 4 speeds vs. 5 or 6, yet how much whining about "aaaaannccciieennntttt" 4-spd autos have we had to endure on these boards...

[Northstar]

The Ford has an indepent rear, no suprise. The Chevy did a good job the Turd was all over. And I also saw some Toyota dealerships towing F-150's and Silvy's away. Only problem is that the Silvy they used wasn't a Vortec Max, and the Turd was a 5.7L... Is the 403hp coming next year?

The Silverado with the G80 would destroy the Tundra in a tug-of-war regardless of what engine it had.

[plane]

Uh.....5.7L is running something like 70% penetration.

Great choice of words, especially when talking about the average Tundra buyer.

Edited June 30, 2007 by plane