The next-gen Boeing 747 is coming!

[trinacriabob]

I was very happy to read about this. Evidently, Deutsche Lufthansa (der flying gestapo :AH-HA_wink: don't get me started) has signed orders for about a dozen new Boeing 747-800s. Others are placing orders mostly for the freighter version, but British and other Asian carriers may place some orders, as there is a historical trend to buy Boeing. That would be cool.

And why not? The technology is known, the infrastructure is there and it's a beauty. The area where Boeing knows they have had to make strides is in economy, material weight and quietness of operation ("Quiet Tuning," anybody?). The ugly Airbus 380 is noticeably quieter than any '47s to date, judging from an article I read in the LA Times where people sitting on Sepulveda Blvd. as the AB 380 was approaching for its inaugural visit to LAX said it was fairly quiet. Also, the new 747 will still weigh under 1,000,000 pounds maximum take-off weight whereas the Airbus 380 exceeds that.

The one change I see is the wing profile. It seems to sport the raked wing found on the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner. That means that, as I sit in my favorite seat on the '47, I will no longer see the rearward sweep of the winglet. Such is life. God, I love that plane.

[Intrepidation]

So is it a complete redesign or more of an extensive update? The 747 is pretty iconic for Boeing, everyone knows what they look like. Pictures?

Of course it's nowhere near as cool as Boeing's beautiful B-17 Flying Fortress :AH-HA_wink:

Aircraft were my first love when I was a kid.

Edited June 4, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Drew Dowdell]

Of course it's nowhere near as cool as Boeing's beautiful B-52 Strato Fortress :AH-HA_wink:

Fixed.

[Drew Dowdell]

A rendering of the new wing perhaps?

[Drew Dowdell]

BTW....

If it ain't boeing, I ain't going.

[z28luvr01]

BTW....

If it ain't boeing, I ain't going.

+1

It's amazing how well the '47 has stood up to the test of time. Didn't the first ones start flying in '69 or something?

[trinacriabob]

+1

It's amazing how well the '47 has stood up to the test of time. Didn't the first ones start flying in '69 or something?

Maiden flight at Everett WA: February 9, 1969

First commercial flight: January 22, 1970 - Pan American - "your" JFK airport to LHR

You weren't even born yet, Z.

The 747 concept just keeps getting mechanically and aesthetically better!

[Flybrian]

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going indeed.

I love to point and laugh at A380 proponants right about now. Not only has that monstrosity been delayed on and off for years but every single freighter order has dropped out. Right now, Airbus has 156 standing orders over the course of 7 years while Boeing has 87 orders in 18 months. Its simply a vote of confidence for the superior airframe. And even better, one of the big hitherto-claimed advantages of Airbus engineering is parts commonality between series. Well, the A380 is almost completely bespoke while the 747-8 shares major structures with only the most popular widebody ever manufactured. Hmm...

Another humorous fact: Airbus noted early-on that the breakeven number was about 270 A380s. Later, the number rose to 420 because of the inumerable delays. This past April, Airbus remarked that the breakeven has increased even further, but hasn't mentioned a number. What is it now, 500? 550? 600? Airbus only expects to sell a grand total of 750 airframes. Way to go for this disgusting engineering obesity.

Simple fact remains that Boeing once again introduces a superior product that can be seamlessly integrated into the current airway system at an affordable price while Airbus rolls out an 800-ton gorilla that demands the world's air transport network redesign itself around it.

[Flybrian]

If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going indeed.

I love to point and laugh at A380 proponants right about now. Not only has that monstrosity been delayed on and off for years but every single freighter order has dropped out. Right now, Airbus has 156 standing orders over the course of 7 years while Boeing has 87 orders in 18 months. Its simply a vote of confidence for the superior airframe. And even better, one of the big hitherto-claimed advantages of Airbus engineering is parts commonality between series. Well, the A380 is almost completely bespoke while the 747-8 shares major structures with only the most popular widebody ever manufactured. Hmm...

Another humorous fact: Airbus noted early-on that the breakeven number was about 270 A380s. Later, the number rose to 420 because of the inumerable delays. This past April, Airbus remarked that the breakeven has increased even further, but hasn't mentioned a number. What is it now, 500? 550? 600? Airbus only expects to sell a grand total of 750 airframes. Way to go for this disgusting engineering obesity.

Simple fact remains that Boeing once again introduces a superior product that can be seamlessly integrated into the current airway system at an affordable price while Airbus rolls out an 800-ton gorilla that demands the world's air transport network redesign itself around it.

[vonVeezelsnider]

Fly, the A350 Proponents (fanbois) are even lamer... they can't even seem to freeze a design... A350 Orders: 80, 787 Orders: Approaching 700 if AA orders them, approaching 600 otherwise (the plane is revolutionary and has ALREADY BROKEN EVEN and Turning a profit. Oh, and Airbus will never sell 750 A380s, pure fantasy, period. John Leahy might think so, but none of us agree with his propaganda. It may break even, but that's pretty optimistic.

I can't see the 747-8i as a big commercial success, maybe a moderate one, but the real money Boeing is going to make is on the 747-8F.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I was very happy to read about this. Evidently, Deutsche Lufthansa (der flying gestapo :AH-HA_wink: don't get me started)

Vat do you mean? Vee have ways of making you talk, you American Svine!

Love,

Der Börger

Goes off singing Deutschland über alles ...

[Intrepidation]

Fixed.

Try belly landing one of those and have it stay in one piece

It's too plain looking...yes it's capabilities and how it has stood the test of time and is still in service for the forseeable future is truely impressive...but it's not a thing of beauty like the B-17.

Edited June 6, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Flybrian]

I can't see the 747-8i as a big commercial success, maybe a moderate one, but the real money Boeing is going to make is on the 747-8F.

What I eat up is how the A380 freighter has been delayed until 2014 or so because FedEx backed out to get 777s that were available, like, now. The 747-8F is slated to enter service in '09 and has already sold, what, 65 or so airframes?

Airbus thinks the market for a superheavy like this is passenger routes. They're dead wrong; freight is. Mid/long-distance point-to-point (off-hub) is the future of passenger travel and Boeing is already there.

So sad, so sad...

Dodgefan, interestingly, B-52s are extrodinarily tough. Quite a few came back from Rolling Thunder, Arc Light, and Linebacker raids with what would be catastrophic damage to lesser airframes (holes in wing sections, engine pods blown off, vertical stabilizers shot away). They're slated to remain active until at least 2040 and - this is the best part - despite having been designed in the late-40s, it still has the highest ready rate among our bomber fleet, something like 80% vs. 55% for the B-1 and 25% for the B-2.

I don't imagine a bomber like the B-52 ever being obsolete, though eventually the airframes may be. I also doubt our ability to create an effective replacement, a real jack of all trades, because we simply don't think like we did back in the Cold War - take every stupid, overfast, or overlarge idea, fund them, build them, and keep what doesn't fail.

[Intrepidation]

What I eat up is how the A380 freighter has been delayed until 2014 or so because FedEx backed out to get 777s that were available, like, now. The 747-8F is slated to enter service in '09 and has already sold, what, 65 or so airframes?

Airbus thinks the market for a superheavy like this is passenger routes. They're dead wrong; freight is. Mid/long-distance point-to-point (off-hub) is the future of passenger travel and Boeing is already there.

So sad, so sad...

Dodgefan, interestingly, B-52s are extrodinarily tough. Quite a few came back from Rolling Thunder, Arc Light, and Linebacker raids with what would be catastrophic damage to lesser airframes (holes in wing sections, engine pods blown off, vertical stabilizers shot away). They're slated to remain active until at least 2040 and - this is the best part - despite having been designed in the late-40s, it still has the highest ready rate among our bomber fleet, something like 80% vs. 55% for the B-1 and 25% for the B-2.

I don't imagine a bomber like the B-52 ever being obsolete, though eventually the airframes may be. I also doubt our ability to create an effective replacement, a real jack of all trades, because we simply don't think like we did back in the Cold War - take every stupid, overfast, or overlarge idea, fund them, build them, and keep what doesn't fail.

and perhaps most famous...

Edited June 6, 2007 by Dodgefan

[trinacriabob]

I can't see the 747-8i as a big commercial success, maybe a moderate one, but the real money Boeing is going to make is on the 747-8F.

I think you are right. Most of the orders are for freighters. However, I never turn down a ride on anybody's '47 across any pond. I do think that the 747-8-I is a more sensible big-sled in all-pax configuration than the Airbus 380.

[trinacriabob]

Vat do you mean? Vee have ways of making you talk, you American Svine!

Goes off singing Deutschland über alles ...

I think you know my beef with Lufthansa!

In true Germanic "grundlich" fashion, they always wrestle my 1" inch over the limit carry-on from me such that I could have gone to Europe without checking bags.

Alitalia and Air France, in a more Latin "domani/demain" fashion, look the other way.

On a Lisbon to Munich to Catania flight, the chick ranted and raved about "der regulations" and I kept fighting back, so I ultimately carried my carry-on into the cabin with me. It turned out both flights were half empty. What a douche bag she was.

I try to patronize Alitalia, Iberia, Air France or Aerolineas Argentinas over any more Nordic carrier (LH, SAS, etc.). Flying is supposed to be fun!

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think you know my beef with Lufthansa!

In true Germanic "grundlich" fashion, they always wrestle my 1" inch over the limit carry-on from me such that I could have gone to Europe without checking bags.

Alitalia and Air France, in a more Latin "domani/demain" fashion, look the other way.

On a Lisbon to Munich to Catania flight, the chick ranted and raved about "der regulations" and I kept fighting back, so I ultimately carried my carry-on into the cabin with me. It turned out both flights were half empty. What a douche bag she was.

I try to patronize Alitalia, Iberia, Air France or Aerolineas Argentinas over any more Nordic carrier (LH, SAS, etc.). Flying is supposed to be fun!

Ja, ja! So you told me, perhaps she was impressed with your extra 1 inch. :AH-HA_wink:

[Sixty8panther]

I agree about the awsome & legendary B-17.

[Intrepidation]

I agree about the awsome & legendary B-17.

[trinacriabob]

A rendering of the new wing perhaps?

That's the idea. Though, as a conceptual rendering, it is more "exaggerated" than what is happening on the 787, or the 747-8-I for that matter.

[ZL-1]

I am so ashamed I missed this thread... I love airplanes (yes, I'm a geek)! Does your love of airplanes come from the design aspect or is the engineering aspect appealing to you as well, Bob?

[Drew Dowdell]

Try belly landing one of those and have it stay in one piece

It's too plain looking...yes it's capabilities and how it has stood the test of time and is still in service for the forseeable future is truely impressive...but it's not a thing of beauty like the B-17.

You really don't want to be on the business end of a B-52..... at least with a B-17 there's a chance you'd live.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I am so ashamed I missed this thread... I love airplanes (yes, I'm a geek)! Does your love of airplanes come from the design aspect or is the engineering aspect appealing to you as well, Bob?

I didn't know you were Greek, all this time I thought you were Portuguese! Yes I was blond as a child!

[ZL-1]

I didn't know you were Greek, all this time I thought you were Portuguese! Yes I was blond as a child!

:rotflmao:

[trinacriabob]

I am so ashamed I missed this thread... I love airplanes (yes, I'm a geek)! Does your love of airplanes come from the design aspect or is the engineering aspect appealing to you as well, Bob?

70% design / 30% engineering

It was the majesty of the 747 that reeled me in!

(PCS e um aleman muito louco, verdade?) :AH-HA_wink:

[ZL-1]

70% design / 30% engineering

It was the majesty of the 747 that reeled me in!

(PCS e um aleman muito louco, verdade?) :AH-HA_wink:

PCS tem um sentido de humor excelente!

I like 747s, unlike the A380 which to me looks like a whale with wings.

I also like more modern military aircraft designs: the B-2 and the one I'm attaching here (Boeing X-54C Joint Unmanned Combat Air Systems aircraft).

Edited June 8, 2007 by ZL-1