May 2007 Sales: Toyota Motor Sales

[Variance]

May 2007 Sales: Toyota Motor Sales

Toyota Motor Sales (TMS), U.S.A., Inc., today reported all-time best-ever sales of 269,023 vehicles

for the month, an increase of 9.7 percent over May 2006. The former

all-time best-ever record was 242,675 units in March 2007.

"As fuel prices and consumer confidence rose, the industry saw a move

to passenger cars, with retail business posting sharp gains over a very

challenging April," said Jim Lentz, TMS executive vice president. "Despite

the industry's shift toward passenger cars, Toyota's all-new Tundra hit an

all-time high in May. As for hybrids, the market's appetite continues

unabated, with Prius also establishing an all-time record."

The Toyota Division posted all-time best-ever sales of 237,176, up 10.9

percent over last May. The Lexus Division reported best-ever May sales of

31,847 units, an increase of 2.1 percent.

Toyota Division

Toyota Division passenger cars recorded all-time best-ever sales of

148,327, an increase of 12.7 percent over last May. Passenger car sales

were led by Camry, which posted best-ever May sales of 50,126, up 11.8

percent over the same period last year. Camry Hybrid reported sales of

6,853 units in May. The Prius hybrid gas-electric mid-size sedan posted

all-time best-ever sales of 24,009, an increase of 184.9 percent over May

2006. The Yaris subcompact reported an increase of 30.5 percent, posting

best-ever May sales of 10,949 units. Corolla reported all-time best-ever

sales of 45,238 units, an increase of 4.7 percent over the year-ago month.

Toyota Division light truck sales were up eight percent, with a

best-ever May total of 88,849 units. Light truck sales were led by the RAV4

compact sport utility vehicle (SUV), which reported best-ever May sales of

16,547, up 13.5 percent over the same period last year. The all-new Tundra

full-size pickup reported all-time best-ever sales of 17,727, an increase

of 113.8 percent over the year-ago month. Highlander and Highlander Hybrid

posted combined May sales of 11,991, up 6.7 percent over the same period

last year. The Highlander Hybrid gas-electric mid-size SUV reported sales

of 3,312 units for the month. FJ Cruiser reported May sales of 4,639 units.

Scion posted May sales of 11,570 units. The tC sports coupe led the way

with May sales of 6,615 units. The xB urban utility vehicle posted sales of

3,658 units for the month.

Lexus Division

Lexus passenger cars reported best-ever May sales of 19,943 units, an

increase of 4.8 percent over May 2006. Passenger car sales were led by the

ES 350 luxury sedan with May sales of 8,572 units. The all-new LS 460 and

LS 460 L reported combined sales of 3,196, an increase of 183.2 percent

over last May. Combined sales of the IS 250 and IS 350 posted all-time

best-ever sales of 5,722 units, up 19.5 percent over May 2006.

Lexus Division light trucks reported May sales totaling 11,904 units.

The RX 350 and RX 400h enjoyed combined best-ever May sales of 9,798 units.

The RX 400h hybrid luxury utility vehicle reported sales of 1,746 units for

the month.

TMS Hybrids

TMS calendar-year-to-date hybrid sales totaled 119,154 units, an

increase of 75 percent over the same period last year. In May, TMS posted

sales of 36,101 hybrid vehicles, up 102 percent over last May. Toyota

Division posted sales of 34,174 hybrids, up 121 percent over the same

period last year. Lexus Division posted sales of 1,927 hybrids.

There were 26 selling days this month, as compared to 25 selling days last

May.

TOYOTA  RETAIL  SALES
						  (INCLUDES FLEET & HAWAII)
								  May, 2007

							-- CURRENT MONTH --	-- CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE --
											DSR %						DSR %
							2007	 2006   CHG		2007	   2006   CHG

	YARIS				 10,949	8,065   30.5	 37,367	 15,797  134.7
	COROLLA			   45,238   41,550	4.7	165,722	159,992	2.8
	CAMRY				 50,126   43,112   11.8	193,900	177,090	8.6
	AVALON				 6,435	7,646  -19.1	 31,861	 38,428  -17.7
	PRIUS				 24,009	8,103  184.9	 76,747	 38,460   98.0
	SCION xA			   1,297	3,927  -68.2	  8,096	 14,421  -44.3
	SCION xB			   3,658	6,763  -48.0	 13,331	 25,411  -48.0
	SCION tC			   6,615	7,413  -14.2	 27,041	 30,071  -10.8
	TOTAL TOYOTA DIV.
	 PASS. CAR		   148,327  126,582   12.7	554,067	499,695   10.0
	ES 350				 8,572	9,554  -13.7	 33,166	 24,944   31.9
	LS 460				 3,196	1,085  183.2	 14,941	  5,702  160.0
	SC 430				   410	  593  -33.5	  1,705	  2,556  -33.8
	GS 350				 1,854	1,940   -8.1	  8,219	  9,578  -14.9
	GS 430/450h			  189	  516  -64.8		928	  1,724  -46.6
	IS 250/350			 5,722	4,605   19.5	 22,494	 22,485   -0.7
	TOTAL LEXUS PASS.
	 CAR				  19,943   18,293	4.8	 81,453	 66,989   20.6
	TOTAL TOYOTA PASS.
	 CAR				 168,270  144,875   11.7	635,520	566,684   11.3
	SIENNA				12,837   13,102   -5.8	 60,569	 67,404  -10.8
	RAV4				  16,547   14,013   13.5	 72,447	 61,811   16.3
	FJ CRUISER			 4,639	6,670  -33.1	 25,271	 15,103   66.0
	4RUNNER				6,908	8,888  -25.3	 37,938	 46,219  -18.6
	HIGHLANDER			11,991   10,806	6.7	 53,496	 50,921	4.2
	LAND CRUISER			 205	  257  -23.3	  1,078	  1,397  -23.4
	SEQUOIA				1,967	2,575  -26.5	 10,896	 14,414  -25.0
	TOTAL SUV			 42,257   43,209   -6.0	201,126	189,865	5.1
	4X2 TACOMA			 9,728	9,098	2.8	 45,568	 42,906	5.4
	4X4 TACOMA			 6,300	5,744	5.5	 31,559	 28,963	8.1
	TOTAL TACOMA		  16,028   14,842	3.8	 77,127	 71,869	6.5
	TUNDRA				17,727	7,974  113.8	 61,113	 48,636   24.7
	TOTAL PICKUP		  33,755   22,816   42.3	138,240	120,505   13.8
	TOTAL TOYOTA DIV. LT
	 TRUCK				88,849   79,127	8.0	399,935	377,774	5.0
	LX 470				   264	  471  -46.1	  1,330	  2,463  -46.4
	GX 470				 1,842	1,901   -6.8	  8,658	  9,972  -13.9
	RX 350/400h			9,798	9,334	0.9	 39,892	 43,631   -9.3
	TOTAL LEXUS LIGHT
	 TRUCK				11,904   11,706   -2.2	 49,880	 56,066  -11.7
	TOTAL TOYOTA LIGHT
	 TRUCK			   100,753   90,833	6.7	449,815	433,840	2.9
	TOTAL TOYOTA DIV.	237,176  205,709   10.9	954,002	877,469	7.9
	TOTAL LEXUS		   31,847   29,999	2.1	131,333	123,055	5.9
	TOTAL TOYOTA		 269,023  235,708	9.7  1,085,335  1,000,524	7.6
	MEMO:
	DOM. COROLLA		  40,904   34,434   14.2	147,800	139,253	5.3
	DOM. CAMRY			42,476   36,712   11.3	158,268	154,188	1.8
	DOM. PICKUP		   33,755   22,816   42.3	138,240	120,505   13.8
	DOM. RX 350			7,259	6,159   13.3	 28,532	 26,828	5.5

	SELLING DAYS			  26	   25			   127		126

	TOYOTA DIV. IMPORT
	 CAR				  58,512   47,790   17.7	216,138	167,826   27.8
	LEXUS IMPORT CAR	  19,943   18,293	4.8	 81,453	 66,989   20.6
	TOYOTA DIV NA BUILT
	 CARS				 89,815   78,792	9.6	337,929	331,869	1.0
	TOTAL TOYOTA CARS	168,270  144,875   11.7	635,520	566,684   11.3

	TOYOTA DIV. IMPORT
	 LT TRUCK			 40,290   40,634   -4.7	190,230	175,451	7.6
	LEXUS IMPORT LT
	 TRUCK				 4,645	5,547  -19.5	 21,348	 29,238  -27.6
	TOYOTA DIV NA BUILT
	 LT TRUCK			 48,559   38,493   21.3	209,705	202,323	2.8
	LEXUS NA BUILT LT
	 TRUCK				 7,259	6,159   13.3	 28,532	 26,828	5.5
	TOTAL TOYOTA LT
	 TRUCK			   100,753   90,833	6.7	449,815	433,840	2.9

	SPORT UTILITY
	 VEHICLES			 49,522   48,245   -1.3	225,735	230,828   -3.0
	   Memo: Lexus Sport
		Utility		   11,904   11,706   -2.2	 49,880	 56,066  -11.7

	SMALL VANS			12,837   13,102   -5.8	 60,569	 67,404  -10.8
	PICKUPS			   33,755   22,816   42.3	138,240	120,505   13.8

	* NORTH AMERICAN
	  BUILT VEHICLES
	COROLLA			   40,904   34,434   14.2	147,800	139,253	5.3
	CAMRY				 42,476   36,712   11.3	158,268	154,188	1.8
	AVALON				 6,435	7,646  -19.1	 31,861	 38,428  -17.7
	SIENNA				12,837   13,102   -5.8	 60,569	 67,404  -10.8
	PICKUP				33,755   22,816   42.3	138,240	120,505   13.8
	SEQUOIA				1,967	2,575  -26.5	 10,896	 14,414  -25.0
	RX 350				 7,259	6,159   13.3	 28,532	 26,828	5.5
	TOTAL				145,633  123,444   13.4	576,166	561,020	1.9
	N.A. VEHICLES % OF
	 TOTAL				 54.1%	52.4%			 53.1%	  56.1%

	SELLING DAYS			  26	   25			   127		126
	DSR = DAILY SELLING RATE

[source: Toyota Motor Sales]

[siegen]

Isn't Toyota just the all-time bestest car company evar??

They only say all-time best-ever 7 freakin times. Get over yourself Toyota.

[Flybrian]

Corolla is such a garbage car. Its a wonder why people continue to be suckered into buying one.

[toesuf94]

zero down, $169.00/month...they don't care what it is...but you are right; 'tis a $h!box.

[mustang84]

I was driving by the Des Moines airport the other day and the Hertz lot had quite a few Corollas...hmm....

How else would a car that hasn't had a significant update since 2002 increase 4,000 units for the month at the end of its lifespan? I think there's more going on than just "Toyota magic."

[Intrepidation]

In related news, my ass had it's BE$T_3V4R month, but was unable to spew out as much crap as Toyota.

[SingleStylish]

For all those that doubted (even though I am not happy about it) Tundra is selling this month on pace to 200k this year. I do see an awful lot of them!

[Intrepidation]

For all those that doubted (even though I am not happy about it) Tundra is selling this month on pace to 200k this year. I do see an awful lot of them!

It must depend on the area...I've seen 5 so far VS 20+ GMT-900 trucks

[toyoguy]

with all this talk this talk of the Tundra, the Prius is far more interesting.

[mustang84]

I've seen a whole whopping 2 '07 Tundras here in Iowa, both of them in Des Moines (and I have done a ton of driving back and forth between home lately).

[thegriffon]

Some of these figures strain the bounds of credulity—they cannot possibly represent real retail market penetration. Nearly double (treble for the Prius) January sales? I'm sorry but something fishy is going on here.

[regfootball]

i honestly see no tundras here. the increase to me is puzzling.

yaris? my. corolla sucks. but yes, it's all the incentives for corolla and camry. scary numbers though. i have seen many new prius. fair enough on that one.

with all the good cars out there, there is no reason for toyota to be making such gains like this. no matter how good the cars may be.

they are dumping a lot into rentals though...fact. i always see many cor/caml at the hertz lot here.

we'll see what happens with the 'legendary resale' when those things end up at auction.

toyota is going for broke. incentives, fleets, shortcuts in development. give them credit for seizing the day. i guess it beats a seized sludged up motor.

Edited June 2, 2007 by regfootball

[Nick]

I actually have not seen one single tundra. But I am happy to report huge amounts of GMT-900's being spotted around the So-Cal region...

[thegriffon]

The increase in tundra sales is understandable—it's a new and vastly improved product. But Yaris? From a steady 6-7K to nearly 11K in a single month? That screams dumping. Corolla—an old, outdated model on it's last legs—to go from around 30K +/-3K to over 45K in a single month? They're dumping them somewhere. Camry? OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them. Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation. RAV4 I can believe—sales of these light crossovers have been strong and if anything the RAV4 has been lagging the CRV most months when it is probably the better vehicle. Highlander, OK it's old, but sales are not fantastic and within the normal range, even it is a nice bump over last year.

LS series? New and much more competitive, and still a bargain. Sales are steady, nothing unusual there. IS? a nice bump, but a competitive product and some is due to the whole segment doing well this month. Obviously trying to claw back second place from the new C-Class, mostly at the expense of midsize luxury cars.

[toyoguy]

OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them.

Suburu plant began producing Camries last month

Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation.

it's nearly triple

[Z-06]

The increase in tundra sales is understandable—it's a new and vastly improved product. But Yaris? From a steady 6-7K to nearly 11K in a single month? That screams dumping. Corolla—an old, outdated model on it's last legs—to go from around 30K +/-3K to over 45K in a single month? They're dumping them somewhere. Camry? OK it's new, but sales were a steady 30-40K, to jump to over 50K in a single month? Yeah right, they're dumping them. Prius? OK fuel prices may be helping, but so are incentives. Nearly double the previous month's sales is not a normal market variation. RAV4 I can believe—sales of these light crossovers have been strong and if anything the RAV4 has been lagging the CRV most months when it is probably the better vehicle. Highlander, OK it's old, but sales are not fantastic and within the normal range, even it is a nice bump over last year.

LS series? New and much more competitive, and still a bargain. Sales are steady, nothing unusual there. IS? a nice bump, but a competitive product and some is due to the whole segment doing well this month. Obviously trying to claw back second place from the new C-Class, mostly at the expense of midsize luxury cars.

You know that some greenies now want Hertz et, al. to carry Hybrids? Guess which car it is. The Prius. The Cavalier and the Neon in the Rental Parking lots in Orlando are replaced by Crapollas, and the Impala is taken over by the Crapries. I drive right by the Orlando Int. Rental Car Places to work, and the amount of Toy vehicles in those parking lots is frightening. It is like a patient with acute diarrhea dumping fecal matter.

[Snate]

Well someone has to pick up the slack from domestics cutting back on fleet sales.

[enzl]

Lotta bitterness flowing through this thread.

Toyota is about to blow by Chrysler and, probably, topple Ford as #2 in this country.

Why not just give credit where its due? I don't get how 'I haven't seen too many' is a valid counterpoint to what everyone here seems to feel are incredible #'s.

Stop by a Toyota dealer and try to buy one of their recent intros....I'm fairly certain you'll see these figures are not only accurate, they're understandable.

What people on this board fail to understand that MOST people do not want risk associated with their new car purchase. Toyota has been masterful in creating a quality reputation (deserved or not) that takes the worry out of the decision.

You can't top that when MOST (not us) treat their cars as appliances.

Edited June 2, 2007 by enzl

[plane]

Yeah. Like he said.

Somebody needs to stop picking on Toyota.

Right now.

Just ignore the Toyota-filled rental lots. It will make the rest of this much easier.

No more mention of sludged engines.

No more exploding camshaft stories.

If Toyota want's to disable pickup safety features rather than fix the problem, that's none of our business.

No more articles about groping Toyota executives. Oh what a feeling.

It doesn't matter that around 50% of Toyota's vehicles are imported, Toyota is still better for the economy.

Even when your friends and neighbors lose their jobs at the GM plant, they can still buy a used Toyota.

And no more ridicule for poorly-selling trucks.

Everybody got that?

Hopefully this puts this matter to rest for good.

[haypops]

Some of these figures strain the bounds of credulity—they cannot possibly represent real retail market penetration. Nearly double (treble for the Prius) January sales? I'm sorry but something fishy is going on here.

Just this morning I got an "informational" email from Toyota. Especially notice the Prius rental fleet inclusion.

More good news for consumers was the announcement that production increases have made Prius available immediately at virtually all the nation's Toyota dealers. Additional Prius are also being added to the Toyota Rent a Car fleets at Toyota dealers nationwide. At these 900 dealerships, customers may rent and test-drive a Prius for a full day or more before deciding on a purchase.

<snip>

Toyota revealed new pricing with substantial savings on "ECO-nomic Savings" packages of optional equipment and features. The savings range from $600 to $2000, and will be in place indefinitely

[haypops]

What people on this board fail to understand that MOST people do not want risk associated with their new car purchase. Toyota has been masterful in creating a quality reputation (deserved or not) that takes the worry out of the decision.

That is very true. Most people make most decisions in life to pick the safest choice, not the best. I think that this is particularly important for some of the younger posters to realize when they go on a job interview. The HR guy is more likely to be impressed with your perfect attendance certificate from the fifth grade than your dean's list accomplishment.

[enzl]

Yeah. Like he said.

Somebody needs to stop picking on Toyota.

Right now.

Just ignore the Toyota-filled rental lots. It will make the rest of this much easier.

No more mention of sludged engines.

No more exploding camshaft stories.

If Toyota want's to disable pickup safety features rather than fix the problem, that's none of our business.

No more articles about groping Toyota executives. Oh what a feeling.

It doesn't matter that around 50% of Toyota's vehicles are imported, Toyota is still better for the economy.

Even when your friends and neighbors lose their jobs at the GM plant, they can still buy a used Toyota.

And no more ridicule for poorly-selling trucks.

Everybody got that?

Hopefully this puts this matter to rest for good.

Sour grapes. That's what it sounds like....IMO

[Flybrian]

I would really, really like to see a retail vs. fleet breakout of these numbers. As indicated, some defy common sense and even market trends.

[chevelle454]

I have never seen a New Turdra on the road, they seem to have had the same Turdras at the dealer that I drive by everyday. I see tons of GMT-900's

Are Toyotas sales figures vehicles delivered to acvtual customers or just vehicles delivered to vehicle lots.

Edited June 2, 2007 by chevelle454

[Satty]

I saw about a dozen Tundras on the road today, so, as has been established before, you really cannot go with what you see in your particular area.

[enzl]

I would really, really like to see a retail vs. fleet breakout of these numbers. As indicated, some defy common sense and even market trends.

fleet is clearly up. Common sense would dictate that a withdrawal of the Detroit 3 would result in others filling the supply.

I was actually fairly impressed with GM's monthlies...The new product (other than Saturn's, which I think may just be a matter of marketing) is moving and, hopefully, the old stuff will continue to hold its own.

[plane]

Sour grapes. That's what it sounds like....IMO

Exactly.

Picking on Toyota is unAmerican.

[enzl]

Exactly.

Picking on Toyota is unAmerican.

No, its just tired, intellectually dishonest and the latest in a long line of apologist nonsense. Like a wife defending the husband that abuses her, it rings false.

They won this round. We lost. Time to move on to the next fight.

[A Horse With No Name]

...Ford looks like it will be the real looser here.

G.M. seems to be doing well around here, but the midwest has always been more of a domestic stronghold.

Chris

[plane]

No, its just tired, intellectually dishonest and the latest in a long line of apologist nonsense. Like a wife defending the husband that abuses her, it rings false.

They won this round. We lost. Time to move on to the next fight.

Criticising Toyota is not tired.

Criticising Toyota is not intellectually dishonest.

It's actually quite refreshing.

Especially considering GM's newfound rennaisance.

Intellectually dishonest would be the Toyota apologist, like Freidman and perhaps yourself, that somehow claims Toyota is better for our economy.

When nothing could be further from the truth.

Just one tiny example - General Motors is the single largest provider of health care in this country.

Apologist would be condoning a company that refuses to fix an acknowledged air bag defect, but is instead ready and willing to disable that safety equipment all in the name of greed and profit. Why don't you put your younger son or daughter in that front seat. It's Toyota so it must be safe right?

Apologist would be blaming vehicle owners for a sludge problem. Three million owners must be wrong, inconsiderate, fat and lazy.

Apologist would be sweeping under the rug exploding cam shafts in a new vehicle or hybrid vehicles that suddenly stall on the highway.

Unfortunately for your perspective, the media finally seems willing to criticize some of Toyota's bad habits.

And none too soon at that.

[enzl]

Criticising Toyota is not tired.

Criticising Toyota is not intellectually dishonest.

It's actually quite refreshing.

Especially considering GM's newfound rennaisance.

Intellectually dishonest would be the Toyota apologist, like Freidman and perhaps yourself, that somehow claims Toyota is better for our economy.

When nothing could be further from the truth.

Just one tiny example - General Motors is the single largest provider of health care in this country.

Apologist would be condoning a company that refuses to fix an acknowledged air bag defect, but is instead ready and willing to disable that safety equipment all in the name of greed and profit. Why don't you put your younger son or daughter in that front seat. It's Toyota so it must be safe right?

Apologist would be blaming vehicle owners for a sludge problem. Three million owners must be wrong, inconsiderate, fat and lazy.

Apologist would be sweeping under the rug exploding cam shafts in a new vehicle or hybrid vehicles that suddenly stall on the highway.

Unfortunately for your perspective, the media finally seems willing to criticize some of Toyota's bad habits.

And none too soon at that.

You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack.

I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.)

...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition.

I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir.

[Drew Dowdell]

You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack.

I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.)

...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition.

I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir.

My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass>

It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability.

I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to.

Edited June 3, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[CARBIZ]

My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass>

It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability.

I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to.

DITTO

[CARBIZ]

My member number is lower then yours, so I'm going to cut you some slack. </pompous ass>

It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews. The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability.

I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to.

DITTO

[GXT]

It's the PR machine of Toyota that is the problem here. It's Toyota's ability to have the car mags end with "...it's good, just not up to the Japanese imports" in every review of every domestic. Camry v. Impala is a great example of this..... reviewers will write pages about the Impala is behind the times with it's 4-speed transmission while praising the Camry's 6-speed..... yet what good is a 6-speed when two of the 6 gears don't work? You NEVER hear about those problems in reviews.

How mant 6AT Camrys were affected by that issue? How many of them ones being sold right now are affected by that issue? How many Impalas are affected by the 4AT "issue"?

The 4-speed might be old, but it's one of the smoothest and most reliable transmissions on the market. Now before any of you get your panties in a twist, I'm not saying that the Impala is a better car. I am saying that GM has matched Toyota on reliability in this segment and that the needs of the individual should be the deciding factor... NOT the reliability.

I've found it interesting how many people on this board have started saying that GM has matched Toyota's reliability. Toyota seems to be slipping, but as of 2006 they are still #1. GMC is #14, Buick is #18, Pontiac #20, Chevy is #21, Saturn #30, Cadillac #31, and Hummer #34. (Out of 36). Buick makes some very reliable cars (Lucerne and LaCrosse), but that doesn't change the fact that the solstice, cobalt and uplander (for example) are the worst possible vehicles in their category. GM has made some good strides, especially in this segment, but they haven't caught Toyota in reliability. Even if they had, there are still a number of good reasons to buy a Camry.

I'll stop pointing out Toyota defects when reviews for Toyota cars end with ".... it's a good car, but it can't escape the <transmission/engine sludge/ball joint, airbag> reliability concerns of it's predecessor."..... because then I won't have to.

Car reviews don't often focus on reliability. They drive the vehicle for a short period and then give it back. They talk about the vehicle itself (e.g. If the transmission went on the Camry they were driving, I bet they would mention it. But they aren't going to mention a handful or early transmission failures that have since been addressed.). Even in the example you gave above, they were talking about the car in general, not the reliability of the car.

It isn't just Toyota... I'd be surprised if there are a lot of reviews that end with "The Cobalt is an average car, but this very model is the most unreliable car in its class." I think you are fighting a battle over something that doesn't happen often while waiting for an end condition that will never happen. And if you got your way the GM cars would come out looking worse as not only are the old models usually unreliable, the new ones continue to trail in reliability in virtually all situations.

[Drew Dowdell]

How mant 6AT Camrys were affected by that issue? How many of them ones being sold right now are affected by that issue? How many Impalas are affected by the 4AT "issue"?

Because there is nothing wrong with GM's 4-speed. There are some instances where a 6-speed is really needed but the Camry/Impala segment isn't one of them.

I've found it interesting how many people on this board have started saying that GM has matched Toyota's reliability. Toyota seems to be slipping, but as of 2006 they are still #1. GMC is #14, Buick is #18, Pontiac #20, Chevy is #21, Saturn #30, Cadillac #31, and Hummer #34. (Out of 36).

In what list? Hummer being #34 makes me think this is a Consumer reports list. You know that one of the major "issues" with the Hummer is gas mileage right? Yes Virginia, people report gas mileage on their Hummer as an "issue". I know that Cadillac is pulled down because of the 3.2 litre CTS engine that they don't even sell anymore.

Buick makes some very reliable cars (Lucerne and LaCrosse), but that doesn't change the fact that the solstice, cobalt and uplander (for example) are the worst possible vehicles in their category.

That's like saying "The Prius and Corolla are clean environmentally, but the Land Cruiser and 4Runner are the worst polluters in their category".... oh.. wait... woops, that one is true.

Solstice aside because there is only one other non-GM in it's category. We know that Uplander is a dead man walking and I'm leary of the Cobalt's numbers from CR anyway. There are still vehicles like the Impala, Aura, G6, LaCrosse, Lucerne <no 4-speed OR 6-speed failures>, GMT-900s <no snapping camshafts>. Lambdas <no steering wheels falling off>, etc etc etc.

GM has made some good strides, especially in this segment, but they haven't caught Toyota in reliability. Even if they had, there are still a number of good reasons to buy a Camry.

I'm not saying there aren't good reasons to buy a Camry. I'm saying that the Camry's issues in the past <sludging 4-cylinders, failing 6-speeds> don't get published, while Impalas "issue" of a fully functional, smooth, reliable 4-speed gets harped on constantly.

Car reviews don't often focus on reliability. They drive the vehicle for a short period and then give it back. They talk about the vehicle itself (e.g. If the transmission went on the Camry they were driving, I bet they would mention it. But they aren't going to mention a handful or early transmission failures that have since been addressed.). Even in the example you gave above, they were talking about the car in general, not the reliability of the car.

bullox! BMW's 3-series had major mechanical failures during C/D's test drive comparison and they STILL said it was the best.

It isn't just Toyota... I'd be surprised if there are a lot of reviews that end with "The Cobalt is an average car, but this very model is the most unreliable car in its class."

Reviewer's snide, anti-domestic, comments are well documented in this forum.

[regfootball]

drive an aura xr and you quickly get why 4 speeds and pushrods are not sufficient.

[CARBIZ]

Whenever I get an import humper in our show room, rather than getting into an argument I point out that our sister Toyota store's service department is MUCH bigger than ours and it is never empty That at least diffuses the argument and usually gets a smile. I believe that more and more people WANT to like GM again, and given the right push they will look at them. I have even had a few people remark about the negative press and wonder if something isn't up.

I believe the tide is slowly turning. GM's recent releases have been more than decent entries. Toyota's foibles have been getting a bit of recognition, and I also believe the media is very fickle and largely vindictive. Once a few of their Lexus and Hondas start to blow up, they will turn on Japan Inc. like a pack of rabid dogs.

I, for one, am not worried that GM has fallen from 35%+ market share in the decade that I have worked here. They had nowhere else to go but down. Every car manufacturer on Earth has made it their personal mission to attack the North American market. It is interesting to note that neither Toyota or Honda have the same appeal anywhere else, nor has their assault been as vigorous and relentless as here.

Kind of makes one wonder, eh?

[Drew Dowdell]

drive an aura xr and you quickly get why 4 speeds and pushrods are not sufficient.

Camry with a 4-banger and 5-speed is better? The Aura XE is meant for those who would buy a CamCord 4-cylinder auto, NOT the V6. As such, it performs it's job just fine.

[Northstar]

Camry with a 4-banger and 5-speed is better? The Aura XE is meant for those who would buy a CamCord 4-cylinder auto, NOT the V6. As such, it performs it's job just fine.

I would much rather have the XE have the 2.4 and six-speed. The people buying 4-cyl Camcords don't care about the extra power, and would much rather trade it for improved fuel economy, something they get in the 4-cyl Camcords.

[enzl]

Carbiz & Olds_

Since its apparently your job to counter my every post, this pompous ass would like to thank you for the effort. Don't worry...I'll eventually get sick of being undermined with hysterical half truths and lame excuses of dubious merit.

Here's my reply to both: When the 30 years of crap is made up for by 10 solid years of quality and technical superiority....then I'll back off.

Until then, people like you only serve to undermine GM's absolute need to improve. If you honestly think that what GM is producing, across the board, is better, than fine.

But face the fact that people are not only going to disagree, they might occassionally be right!

[CARBIZ]

You're new here, so I'm going to cut you some slack.

I'm not going to rebut your argument with a list of domestic makers transgressions, but suffice it to say that the key for GM (Ford or Chrysler) is to get off the mat and continue fighting. (If you go back far enough, every major conglomerate on the planet has done something you or I would consider disnhonorable...check your history.)

...You're making the mistake of looking through a rear-view mirror, rather than looking down the road. All of your points (and valid, they certainly are) have been made, with exhausting repetition.

I'm not apologizing for anyone, just stating the facts, sir.

You and I both know that GM is fighting back; in fact, it is fighting for its life - with one arm tied behind its back! Everyone is only too well aware of the mistakes GM has made. People like you make it your mission (grudge? axe to grind?) to make sure that we NEVER forget. Locally, we have the largest newspaper in Canada, the Toyota Star, that still buries Toyota's transgressions in the Business section, while throwing every fart or hiccup that GM or Ford make on the front page.

You love to throw your resume around with an air of superiority, when your resume and mine are really no better than most. You are trapped by what you see in your local environment, as I am in mine. I deal with customers, suppliers, wholesalers, etc. and do occasionally tap into what is happening at our Toyota store, so that would give me slightly better knowledge than the average person - at least my anecdotal evidence is based on hundreds of examples, rather than a few! But I understand and appreciate that my sampling is greatly skewed because what is happening in Toronto is not normal for Canada, which again is not normal for the U.S. But I do think I have some advantage because of exposure to our Toyota brand.

I admit that I don't like Japanese vehicles, nor do I like German vehicles. I was never raised on them; would never want to own one. Yes, my biases are definitely pro-domestic, although I used to own nothing but Chrysler's. I had two horrible experiences with Dodge in the '80's, but do I go around slagging Chrysler because of that? No. In fact, when one of my customers starts bitching about their friend/neighbor/co-worker/butcher's Chrysler minivan's tranny blowing up, I challenge them on that. Oh, it was a '99 Voyager. Are Chrysler's like that now? No.

Adapt and change, I say. GM has done that, but the media is merciless to the point that it borders on propaganda. GM's newer products are leagues ahead of what they are replacing. Are they all class-leading? Of course not, but then neither is anything from Toyota. But why do apologists jump all over GM because the Impala is not this, or was not that? Instead, some people like to nitpick the &#036;h&#33; out of what the domestics have to offer, based largely on their own preferences, not what the average person would want. Does anyone give a &#036;h&#33; about "overhangs?" Would they even know what the hell that is? Not unless some self-appointed expert pointed it out. What about soft plastics? I get behind the wheel of an Impala and I am just fine with the lack of P-D-R-L and other "oversights." I don't like the Camry at all. Those are my opinons. But what happens when some import humper, disguised as a journalist gets out of his BMW and gets behind the wheel of the Impala?

So, Enzl, you are free to point out every single failing of GM and tsk tsk the rest of us for gloating about Toyota's, but remember that some of us may get a little testy because we are so sick of hearing that Toyota can walk on water every day in the press, with our neighbors and elsewhere and forgive us wanting a little peace and respite on C&G

[Drew Dowdell]

Carbiz & Olds_

Since its apparently your job to counter my every post, this pompous ass would like to thank you for the effort. Don't worry...I'll eventually get sick of being undermined with hysterical half truths and lame excuses of dubious merit.

Here's my reply to both: When the 30 years of crap is made up for by 10 solid years of quality and technical superiority....then I'll back off.

Until then, people like you only serve to undermine GM's absolute need to improve. If you honestly think that what GM is producing, across the board, is better, than fine.

But face the fact that people are not only going to disagree, they might occasionally be right!

I have stated no opinion on which make is better. Again, my issue is with what is in the media. It's the snide comments from reviewers in regards to the domestics while those same reviewers white wash any import problems. There have been reviews in 2006 that still mention the Vega as if it's relevant!! It's the reviews where the BMW has major mechanical failures yet still wins the number one spot. It's the media's harping on GM's smooth and reliable 4-speed while making no mention of the "silent recall" Toyota and Honda have on their 6-speeds and 5-speeds respectively. It's the harping on pushrod V6s that arguably give you more bang for your buck than the imported 4-cylinders while also forgetting to mention the substantial sludge problem Toyota has been dealing with.

Now... I'm not saying that GM hasn't had it's issues, but GM issues, even minor ones, end up being front page headline news while Toyonda issues are published in the back page of the classifieds where they offer "massage with release".

[enzl]

I'm not sure what b-pages you guys are reading, but Toyota's recent foibles have been laid out for all to see.

AS far as Media Bias goes, I believe most here make the 'overreacting' mistake that has it's closest parallel to someone calling your significant other a 'pig'. You want to punch the guy who uttered the statement in anger...I can understand that feeling.

The essential problem is that GM is a pig. She/he might be getting lighter through diet (laying off workers), working out (great individual programs like the 900's) or getting effective counseling (Lutz?), but at the end of the day, the truth is out there for all to see.

The serial mistakes of the previous administrations at GM are a price that must be paid. I am not a Toyota fan...I respect their blind determination and drive, and I believe, unlike others, that this kind of zeal must be met with equal force. I don't consider the Aveo, Cobalt/G5, HHR, Impala, Malibu, any Buick short of the Enclave, the small Pick-ups or a number of other offenders more than average efforts.

I think GM must be pushed harder and react faster or MORE jobs will be lost, less profits will be made and the likelihood of failure rises dramatically.

Media Bias, IMO, is an excuse for every deficiency GM's products have...I drive these cars, all the time. You aren't going to convince me that the Cobalt is in the same league as the Civic or that the LaCrosse is a demonstrably better product than the Camry. They just aren't and the negative press is there because the product isn't up to speed. YOU can believe what you wish, you can opine on what you'd like. I respect your opinions, even if I believe they are wrong.

And, BTW, the only reason I ever made claims about what I do for a living was in response to people here questioning my credibility or my angle on things. Trust me, GM's renaissance is completely in my best interest...I just hope those that disagree with me will allow my continued participation here.

Edited June 4, 2007 by enzl

[sciguy_0504]

As I drive by local gas stations and see the price is over $3.00 a gallon, I know one reason why Camry, Corolla, Yaris and Prius are doing so well. People will drive almost anything that gets good gas mileage, no matter if it is outdated and homely, eccentric, an overrated MPG hybrid or the most popular car in the country.

[Intrepidation]

I'm not sure what b-pages you guys are reading, but Toyota's recent foibles have been laid out for all to see.

I have yet to see edmunds report about the camshaft failures.

I'm partly siding with Oldsmoboi on this....there is so much bias in the media, not just towards GM but Domestics in general. Example: They'll be happy to take a shot at how the new Focus looks but say nothing bad about the hideous concepts that may become the next Prius.

--

Still, it's not a 100% bias rate. We've noticed that the Vue and Lambdas are getting good reviews, and that the Aura beat the Camry for Car of the Year. This is proof that if you build an excellent product, there's a good chance they'll give it a good review. However that doesn't stop some rags like Motor Trend of taking &#036;h&#33;s at say, the Enclave.

[haypops]

there is so much bias in the media, not just towards GM but Domestics in general. Example:

I tend to believe its media stupidity and herd mentality more than biasis. Just my opinion.

[Intrepidation]

I tend to believe its media stupidity and herd mentality more than biasis. Just my opinion.

A little of column A, a little of column B.

[pow]

Wow, 77K YTD Prius sales.

[VenSeattle]

I didn't get to read through all of this, but did anyone mention all of the Toyota "Pull Ahead" letters that went out? It was mentioned in another topic. Maybe this is a response to them?