551 Zeta Delayed

[gmii]

trying to post about rental fleets...error problems

[Camino LS6]

trying to post about rental fleets...error problems

Please keep trying, the errors tend to be short lived.

[GM Oshawa]

The current Impala and one shift in the new Flex plant would work all at the same time. The Impala plant will produce cars on three shifts like it presenty does with the Buick and Pontiac beeing produced on the same line for the first time.

[mustang84]

I went to that fleet-central site, and looking at the fleet breakdown for 2005, 10.6% of cars fleeted were Toyotas. Toyota made up 50% of the import car fleets.

Interesting contradiction:

In case you’re thinking the newbies are headed for a fleet enema to rival The Big 2.5’s, Kia promises to restrict fleets sales to 12 to 15 percent of total ‘07 sales. Nissan won’t allot more than eight percent of its overall sales to fleets, with a maximum of 10 percent of any given model’s sales destined for that end. Toyota says they’ve never sold more than nine percent of total U.S. sales to fleets, and never will.

Nissan reports a 45 percent increase in its fleet sales, while Toyota’s contribution to airport rental lots and other fleet repositories is up by 30 percent.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3598

[Camino LS6]

Thanks for posting that, Mustang.

I still can't find the original article I referenced again, but the point's now been made.

[gmii]

yup

trying to post similar info earlier but had some problems...

Toyota is boosting fleet sales to "overtake" GM. hmmmm.....

[ToniCipriani]

Where are your facts supporting an increase in Toyota's fleet sales, because I haven't seen that....?

For one thing, I could really support that with my own eyes. There are a lot (and I mean A LOT) of Camrys with Enterprise stickers lately. Oh, and a lot of Civics, too. Surprisingly less GMs are rentals these days.

Just a personal observation.

[91z4me]

For one thing, I could really support that with my own eyes. There are a lot (and I mean A LOT) of Camrys with Enterprise stickers lately. Oh, and a lot of Civics, too. Surprisingly less GMs are rentals these days.

Just a personal observation.

Here's another personal observation I saw a Aura XE in my apartment lot w/ the green E on the back. Doesn't mean much though does it?

[trinacriabob]

The current Impala and one shift in the new Flex plant would work all at the same time. The Impala plant will produce cars on three shifts like it presenty does with the Buick and Pontiac beeing produced on the same line for the first time.

Since you seem to be confident with your data and have the word Oshawa in your member name, please indicate the approximate end of ordering and end of actual production dates for the following cars at Oshawa as a W-body:

Monte Carlo (moot point)

Grand Prix

La Crosse / Allure

Impala

Thanks.

[Drew Dowdell]

Here's another personal observation I saw a Aura XE in my apartment lot w/ the green E on the back. Doesn't mean much though does it?

I reserved an Acadia for my trip to Houston later this month, so anything is possible.

The different is though, that when I rent cars, I seek out certain ones and I'm looking forward to having the Acadia.

[trinacriabob]

I seek out certain ones and I'm looking forward to having the Acadia.

Ditto, a lot of times, though, when you express a preference, they cannot guarantee the actual model.

Having "test sat" the Acadia while in for service on my own car, I would have to say that it would be a strong contender if I was in the market for that segment/type. It felt "right," for whatever that's worth.

[ToniCipriani]

Here's another personal observation I saw a Aura XE in my apartment lot w/ the green E on the back. Doesn't mean much though does it?

Like I said, personal observation. And re-read what I said. I didn't see one, but many of them. Not one, MANY.

[Drew Dowdell]

Ditto, a lot of times, though, when you express a preference, they cannot guarantee the actual model.

Having "test sat" the Acadia while in for service on my own car, I would have to say that it would be a strong contender if I was in the market for that segment/type. It felt "right," for whatever that's worth.

I know, but in this case it was one of those special "sub-classes" that you have to click "view more cars" to get. I'm looking forward to the Acadia, but I wouldn't turn down an Outlook either.

Just as long as I don't get the xTerra the travel agent was trying to foist on me.

[GM Oshawa]

Since you seem to be confident with your data and have the word Oshawa in your member name, please indicate the approximate end of ordering and end of actual production dates for the following cars at Oshawa as a W-body:

Monte Carlo (moot point)

Grand Prix

La Crosse / Allure

Impala

Thanks.

The end of the Monte Carlo Production is some time this month. Can get the build out day if that is what you are looking for. When the last Lumina was made in Oshawa it was white, when this car rolled off the flat top the employes were aloud to sighn their name to the car with a black marker. I do believe the car is still around.Worked on some Monte Carlos tonight.

The Grand Prix production will stop no latter then Nov 30th. The Current Impala and the two Buicks will be buit on the same production line starting in Jan 08. Three production shifts. What i did find out today . When the Flex plant ramps up to two shifts the midnight shift workers will be moved over to the Flex plant.This shift of workers to the Flex plant will be needed when a new product joins the Camaro. The long range plan is to have the Flex plant on three shifts and the other plant just working one shift. Saturday production Overtime is May 26th, June 2nd.

[mikehamm45]

its not like they are having a difficult time selling the current impala.

[91z4me]

its not like they are having a difficult time selling the current impala.

You mean the one they are purposely limiting sales of?

[gm4life]

If they are that is dumb. Kill the Camry.

[CARBIZ]

There has been a fair bit of positive press lately about the Impala, particularly in the Canadian market. I have had a few people remark that they are "considering" the Impala because of the positive press. The Impala's sales are strong. It could end up being the dark horse of the Chevy line up. It has really bit into our current Malibu sales. It will be interesting to see what happens when the new Malibu comes out later this year.

The Canadian government slapped a $1,000 rebate on the E-85 Impala and that has piqued interest, too - even though you can't get ethanol here! Never confound the government with facts!

[Northstar]

They're limiting Impala sales to fleet, not retail sales. If they could sell 500k Impala's to retail customers they wouldn't be limiting it.

[trinacriabob]

They're limiting Impala sales to fleet, not retail sales. If they could sell 500k Impala's to retail customers they wouldn't be limiting it.

They currently sell quite a few. Like I posted earlier, at 25,000 units a month, that's 300,000 a year. As dismal as some other GM cars have been, that's pretty damn good.

I like the car ok, having rented a few. It's a little non-descript but very competent. Even though it's a W, it just feels like a whole different car class than does the LaX/Allure or the GP. Go figure.

[thegriffon]

If everyone buys ethanol vehicles, someone is more likely to build gas stations that offer it.

I don't think that anyone can really limi8t sales to rental fleets. If Enterprise wants to buy them, they will. The onky thing they can do really do is not offer the incentives the rental companies have grown to expect. Since they can't get the "deal" from GM anymore, and since GM is cuttingthe number of cheap fleet specials produced, they may as well buy more Toyotas, whether Toyota likes it or not. Come to think of it a base 4-cyl Accord is an ideal rental car, but of course Honda probably doesn't actually build more than a handful.

[liscomorris]

The current GMX 211 Impala is going down to a volume of 133000 and 105000 units in MY 2010/2011 when 551 is launched. These will be strictly for fleet sales. It is confirmed that 551(still unnamed but likely to be a Caprice) is delayed 12 months but at this point who knows what could happen next week/month/year... I speculate that due to the increasing demand for the current impala (sales up 55% in canada in april alone) it makes no sense to shut it down early..I believe anything can happen with GM and they should hold on the the few cars that sell at capacity. Saturdays are starting for impala line as of next week and builds have been slightly higher on a daily basis with a low 42 days on hand as of the end of April. Questions/comments??

Edited May 17, 2007 by liscomorris

[liscomorris]

They currently sell quite a few. Like I posted earlier, at 25,000 units a month, that's 300,000 a year. As dismal as some other GM cars have been, that's pretty damn good.

I like the car ok, having rented a few. It's a little non-descript but very competent. Even though it's a W, it just feels like a whole different car class than does the LaX/Allure or the GP. Go figure.

28000 last month in the US, would put it over 30k in North America.

[gm4life]

They need to keep building the current Impala until its Zeta replacement comes out. I just would love to see 6 spd. auto's standard in all of them. This happend with the old Impala for the first 3 or 4 years sales kept increasing year to year. Go figure.

Edited May 16, 2007 by gm4life

[97regalGS]

The current GMX 211 Impala is going down to a volume of 110,000 units when 551 is launched. These will be strictly for fleet sales. It is confirmed that 551(still unnamed but likely to be a Caprice) is delayed 12 months but at this point who knows what could happen next week/month/year... I speculate that due to the increasing demand for the current impala (sales up 55% in canada in april alone) it makes no sense to shut it down early..I believe anything can happen with GM and they should hold on the the few cars that sell at capacity. Saturdays are starting for impala line as of next week and builds have been slightly higher on a daily basis with a low 42 days on hand as of the end of April. Questions/comments??

interesting marketing. drop the fwd impala, move the malibu upsize to replace it. intro the Caprice as RWD and after a short hiatus the Impala SS (only avail as an SS) debuts as the hopped up Caprice.

[dwightlooi]

interesting marketing. drop the fwd impala, move the malibu upsize to replace it. intro the Caprice as RWD and after a short hiatus the Impala SS (only avail as an SS) debuts as the hopped up Caprice.

If the 551 is indeed going to be a (Zeta) Caprice with the Malibu taking its place, I'll like to see the LL8 engine or is next evolution in it. The LL8 the DOHC 24v VVT 4.2 liter Inline-6 currently used in some SUVs including the Saab 9X. It makes 291 hp and 277 lb-ft on 87 octane and is absolutely the smoothest and most refined engine in GM's stable -- more so than the V8s including the Northstar, and definitely more so than the blah-blah sounding 3.6 VVT. There is really nothing like the smoothness and refinement of an I6. Even in its current, very modest tune, it will set the car apart from its competition such as the Avalon. Of course, with a small displacement bump (already done on the 4 and 5 cylinder siblings of this engine) dual VVT and Direct Injection, this engine is easily to be in the 375hp class.

The base engine can be the LLV 190hp /185 lb-ft DOHC 16v VVT 2.9 liter inline-4 or the LLR 242hp/242 lb-ft DOHC 20v VVT 3.7 liter Inline-5.

[regfootball]

i would like to see the 3.6vvt/6 sp in the impy.

[91z4me]

If the 551 is indeed going to be a (Zeta) Caprice with the Malibu taking its place, I'll like to see the LL8 engine or is next evolution in it. The LL8 the DOHC 24v VVT 4.2 liter Inline-6 currently used in some SUVs including the Saab 9X. It makes 291 hp and 277 lb-ft on 87 octane and is absolutely the smoothest and most refined engine in GM's stable -- more so than the V8s including the Northstar, and definitely more so than the blah-blah sounding 3.6 VVT. There is really nothing like the smoothness and refinement of an I6. Even in its current, very modest tune, it will set the car apart from its competition such as the Avalon. Of course, with a small displacement bump (already done on the 4 and 5 cylinder siblings of this engine) dual VVT and Direct Injection, this engine is easily to be in the 375hp class.

The base engine can be the LLV 190hp /185 lb-ft DOHC 16v VVT 2.9 liter inline-4 or the LLR 242hp/242 lb-ft DOHC 20v VVT 3.7 liter Inline-5.

Big problem there is packaging. The Atlas engines are vertical and have a long stroke, so they are tall. They won't package well in the VE/Zeta cars, if they fit at all. If the Atals engines were designed to be slant mounted I would say sure but the fact is they weren't and so they just don't fit.

That being said I would love to see the 291 I6 in any car, it would certainly be an interesting swap into a 3rd gen for instance. But I don't expect it to live on much longer due to packaging issues.

i would like to see the 3.6vvt/6 sp in the impy.

And I am sure you will.

[dwightlooi]

Big problem there is packaging. The Atlas engines are vertical and have a long stroke, so they are tall. They won't package well in the VE/Zeta cars, if they fit at all. If the Atals engines were designed to be slant mounted I would say sure but the fact is they weren't and so they just don't fit.

That being said I would love to see the 291 I6 in any car, it would certainly be an interesting swap into a 3rd gen for instance. But I don't expect it to live on much longer due to packaging issues.

And I am sure you will.

Actually, I don't think that is an issue. The 102mm stroke length of the 4.2 I6 is not "unusual". This very similar to that of say the Nissan QR25DE engine used in the Sentra and as the base engine on the Altima for instance. That has a 100mm stroke.

The engine, in its truck installations have certain features that make it taller than it has to be -- mainly because it doesn't matter under the tall hood of light trucks and SUVs. The oil pan is taller than it has to be and the intake manifold wraps OVER the top of the engine adding to height for instance. Neither of these parts have to be the way it is. And it is not a big deal to manufacture a different manifold or oil pan for specific applications. In fact, this is frequently done height issue or not.

[91z4me]

Actually, I don't think that is an issue. The 102mm stroke length of the 4.2 I6 is not "unusual". This very similar to that of say the Nissan QR25DE engine used in the Sentra and as the base engine on the Altima for instance. That has a 100mm stroke.

The engine, in its truck installations have certain features that make it taller than it has to be -- mainly because it doesn't matter under the tall hood of light trucks and SUVs. The oil pan is taller than it has to be and the intake manifold wraps OVER the top of the engine adding to height for instance. Neither of these parts have to be the way it is. And it is not a big deal to manufacture a different manifold or oil pan for specific applications. In fact, this is frequently done height issue or not.

You also didn't mention that the engine is completely vertical. The VQ's stroke is at an angle not vertical, making it shorter. That is the problem. If the Atlas was mounted at a 45 degree angle it would package easily into the upcoming Zetas.

[dwightlooi]

You also didn't mention that the engine is completely vertical. The VQ's stroke is at an angle not vertical, making it shorter. That is the problem. If the Atlas was mounted at a 45 degree angle it would package easily into the upcoming Zetas.

Not the VQ35 -- that's the 60 degree V6 in the Altima, Murano, G35, Maxima, Quest, you name it.

The QR25 is the 2.5 liter 4-potter in the Sentra SE-R and also used as the base powerplant in the 4-cylinder Altima and others. It is pretty darn vertical and tall...

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