Let me just save you the "heartbreak"

[daves87rs]

I much as I love cars- I find this the stupidest agruement- like ever

You people are complaining about something you can't even control.

About 60 percent of the buying public won't even get a rat's ass if they changed a few other things on it- as long as it comes out...

I love the design of the car-plain and simple.

Will I put my money where my mouth is-maybe.

I'd be more than happy with a base v6 with a few toys and stripes.....I don't plan to race the doors off cars, nor am I worried about how much hp it has.

Maybe it's because I'm more of a cruiser, just enjoying my car when I can.

Pillar? Woopee. I'd rather see it priced so that people can afford it-just like the mustang.

Besides-they will have to change that design a bit down the road.. you never know.

Fly: I think your day will come.

Unless they have to get rid of Buick....

[Intrepidation]

Doesn't the B-59 have a B-pillar?

[Captain Obvious!]

Doesn't the B-59 have a B-pillar?

[daves87rs]

All I'm saying is that I will NOT live with it. If the Camaro is a

hardtop I WILL buy one, if it's a 2dr sedan I will not.

It's a free country and that's how I'm spending my money.

?

What about just getting the rag top?

I honestly think that would work better for you......

[daves87rs]

Ever consider submitting yourself into a mental institution? Seriously.

You've bought Japanese cars, yet you condemn them. You've bought FWD cars, yet you condemn them. You've bought unibody cars, yet you condemn them. You've bought cars with B-pillars, yet you condemn them. So when it comes to the new Camaro, being styled after your favorite generation of Camaro and being a V8 powered, RWD, American sports car, you won't buy it simply because of the B-pillar.

Yeah... That's the absolute most retarded and hypocritical thing I've ever read in the 3.5 years I've been here.

I think that there has to be another reason....

[hyperv6]

All I'm saying is that I will NOT live with it. If the Camaro is a

hardtop I WILL buy one, if it's a 2dr sedan I will not.

It's a free country and that's how I'm spending my money.

Guys he has every right to say this and he won't be the only one. But in the large picture there will only be a handfull that will feel this extreem that it is a non issue in the big picture. It is no different than the reason I buy GMC vs Chevy. I hate Chvey grilles over GMC. Not a big deal to most but it effected my purchase.

We also has the same feeling with some on the G8 and they would not buy it for some small reason.

As for looking at a car and getting an idea of the drag of the car. It is not too hard to have a good idea if you know what to look for.

Same goes for cost and weight savings.

All I know is post are a cheap way to remove weight and adding strength without adding adding a lot of cost. Steel supports like a pillar are cheaper than box in rockers and reinforced roofs. Also it is cheaper than adding a lot of aluminum to remove the weight.

The car can still appear as pillarless but they will have to find a way to make the pan stronger with out adding to the cost.

Settlemire made it clear on cost and that it needed to be retained but he also said this car will run circles around the compitition. We know it will have the engines to deal with the weight and it will also have the chassie. For the Chassie to perform it will need to be stiff.

Scott also pointed ou this car will have to have a 5 star crash rating or it will fail in the market because the insurance companies would eat it up. Again that provides us the idea it needs to be stiff.

Even though the convertible is coming they may choose to make the coupe as strong and that will help the pillar less car but if they choose to not add the extra weight attributed to most convertibles in the coupe mayh have a pillar. It is that simple.

At this point lets just wait to see what they do. as us arguing here is not going to change things.

I know most in GM would rather have no pillar too, I am sure if there is anyway they can keep it they will. But you can't always have what you want Just as I still don't have a Ferrari Lusso in my Garage so I will just have to get in my truck a live with it.

I also would expect the roof to be just a litle higher but most will never notice unless they read the specs.

[91z4me]

This thread has gone downhill fast. Is there anyway I can unsubscribe from it?

[CSpec]

68, if the hardtop thing means so much to you, why don't you just buy the CLK? If it's not worth that much to you, then suck it up.

[Sixty8panther]

I've said how I feel. I'm done agruing about the Camaro.

Time will tell. If the Camaro is done right it will not have

a B-pillar, if they start cutting corners it will probably

have a b-pillar, & the rest of the design will be watered

down like the current gen. STS versus the A&S concepts

like the Imaj & Evok.

What I find funny is many of the people telling me I'm

"petty" or stupid for caring about such a detail are the

same ones who pick appart a cars interior with an

electron-scanning microscope.

I have never seen/heard so much PMSing over the

buttons, switches, grain of the pleather on the dash or

fit & finish of the airbag than on here.

When people have a fu*%ing aneurysm about the

HVAC vents on the CTS looking like NYC storm drains

I do not agrgue with them for 5 pages. I say my peace

I move on. We've all got different complaints.

As far as my 48 year old Buick it was made in an era

when Buick made 17 different body styles. EIGHT of

those body styles were hardtops, three two-door

Hardtops, FOUR flattop 4dr hardtops & the Mac-Daddy

of them all: the E225 Riviera 4dr Bubbletop Hardtop.

I'm just some dumb kid who can't afford a E225 Riv.

which is my favorite body style. But since I'm

"stuck" owning a two-door sedan I might add that

my rear window is NOT glued in but rolls down just

as all non-$h!y two-door car's rear windows should.

As far as my all-consuming obsession with Hardtops,

if you're questioning my motivaton/dedication to the

cause I think I've already mentioned to you that

I've been in contact with a gentleman out of Arizona

who might trade me a 4dr hardtop straight up for

my 2dr sedan. It's a win/win scenario.

[Camino LS6]

I think if each of us were to examine the things that would make us say no to a car, we might find that there wil be at least one complaint that the rest of the world would consider it a trivial matter. That's the great thing about freedom of choice- we don't have to accept what anyone else thinks is good enough if we don't agree.

The dash fondling tendencies of many on this board spring to mind. For those folks, any hint of "hard plastic" is some huge trauma. Whereas, I put such things much lower on the priority list.

Conversely, the chances of getting me to buy a sedan are incredibly slim - I just don't like 4-door cars.

And, I will never buy FWD.

We all have different criteria that precludes certain vehicles from consideration, 68's is no less valid than anyone else's.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think if each of us were to examine the things that would make us say no to a car, we might find that there wil be at least one complaint that the rest of the world would consider it a trivial matter. That's the great thing about freedom of choice- we don't have to accept what anyone else thinks is good enough if we don't agree.

The dash fondling tendencies of many on this board spring to mind. For those folks, any hint of "hard plastic" is some huge trauma. Whereas, I put such things much lower on the priority list.

Conversely, the chances of getting me to buy a sedan are incredibly slim - I just don't like 4-door cars.

And, I will never buy FWD.

We all have different criteria that precludes certain vehicles from consideration, 68's is no less valid than anyone else's.

You're a relic from the 70's, but that's why I like you, so am I! :rotflmao:

Edited May 4, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Camino LS6]

You're a relic from the 70's, but that's why I like you, so am I! :rotflmao:

In some ways yes, in others not so much.

Let's just say that my tastes remain consistent. :AH-HA_wink:

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

OMG?!?!?! WTF?!?!?!?!??! RU4REAL?!?!??!?! ROTFLMAO?!?!???!?! TTYL?!?!??!?!??! BFF?!?!??!?!??! AT&T?!?!??!?!??!

This completely ruins any street cred the Camaro could ever hope to achieve and eliminates it from ever being a respectable muscle car. Furthermore, it tarnishes the history of every single Camaro ever produced ever and by extension, the history of the Firebird, too. Might as well slap a Solara badge on it and call it a day.

Solara has frameless door glass too....

[Sixty8panther]

68, if the hardtop thing means so much to you, why don't you just buy the CLK? If it's not worth that much to you, then suck it up.

1. I've gone on record here SEVERAL times & said if GM does not make any hardtops

in their future I'll probably never own a modern car again. My G/F will still probably

buy a Camaro still but I'll just keep driving classics or I'll buy a gently used Mercedes

CLK550 or CL550.

2. That having been said WTF should I buy a german car and not my favorite muscle

car in the world? Why the hell shoudl any of us not expect perfection in the 5th gen.

Camaro & the rest of the Zetas? We've waited over a decade for an affordable RWD

sedan from GM, and we've waited over THREE decades for a hardtop from GM. So

yes, I say the B-pillar better be a strip of rubber on the rear window and that's IT.

3. To those that say "just be happy it's styled like your favorite generation of F-body"

I say to you: The first gen. Camaro was a car that would look ugly as sin in profile

with a modern stlyle B-pillar. The lack of a b-pillar IS A CRUCIAL part of the design!

[balthazar]

>>"What I find funny is many of the people telling me I'm

"petty" or stupid for caring about such a detail are the

same ones who pick appart a cars interior with an

electron-scanning microscope.

I have never seen/heard so much PMSing over the

buttons, switches, grain of the pleather on the dash or

fit & finish of the airbag than on here."<<

Damn- one of the most true truisms EVER written here.

My distaste for a Camaro B-pillar just quadrupled.

[Intrepidation]

What I find funny is many of the people telling me I'm

"petty" or stupid for caring about such a detail are the

same ones who pick apart a cars interior with an

electron-scanning microscope.

I have never seen/heard so much PMSing over the

buttons, switches, grain of the pleather on the dash or

fit & finish of the airbag than on here.

When people have a fu*%ing aneurysm about the

HVAC vents on the CTS looking like NYC storm drains

I do not argue with them for 5 pages. I say my peace

I move on. We've all got different complaints.

Suddenly the B-pillar thing seems a lot more rational now, good once Sixty8

[FAPTurbo]

Sixty8 has made a good point. Some people do b*tch and moan a bit when it comes to the plastics not being grained nicely.

I love a functional interior, and if the plastics are a bit softer, even better. But if it is RWD, V8 or high performance V6, and has bucket seats, then I could care less if the interior has harder plastic. As long as I don't get cut, scraped or injured when adjusting the volume on the stereo, I'm happy.

However, the B-Pillar seems fine, and I won't be picky about something like that.

I think we can all agree that as long as the Camaro blasts the VTEKZOR!1 Civic from 1991, complete with the coffee can exhaust and 20 fog lights, we'll all be pretty happy.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

My take:

• I would actually just &#036;h&#33; gold if the '09 Camaro was an affordable hardtop. Like I've said before, it's a trait among classic cars that I just seem to get a thrill out of, especially when I have the chance to drive one with all four windows down and have an open, airy, comfortable spot in the driver's seat. Not to mention the roofline of a car is attractively accented with all of the greenhouse glass hidden.
• With the above point being said, the fact that the Camaro having a B-pillar or not will not prevent me owning the car in any shape, form, or fashion. Chances are, if the Camaro has a B-pillar, it will be hidden behind the rear-window glass, just like the Challenger. And, if looking at it inside the car bothers you, remember this old driving rule: don't pay attention to whatever is behind you.
• ... And reading over Sixty-8's posts ... you don't honestly think the new 'Maro will have the B-pillar of a G8 ... do you?

Edited May 4, 2007 by YellowJacket894

[bowtie_dude]

Having a B-pillar doesn't affect the perceived or factual quality of a vehicle. Having sub-par materials and/or a poor interior design does.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Hmmm ... my S-10 doesn't have a B-pillar ... does that mean it's a hardtop?

[tmp]

I would very much prefer that it is a hardtop. I think they look better: whenever I see a coupe with a fixed rear window (especially one that's styled to look like a hardtop), I think "well they cheaped out"

As far as the dev costs go, it's a new car; those costs would be there whether it has a b-pillar or not. I am not an expert so I don't know how much extra it would be, but I hope that it's reasonable enough for them to spend it.

Edited May 4, 2007 by tmp

[Cory Wolfe]

I think if each of us were to examine the things that would make us say no to a car, we might find that there wil be at least one complaint that the rest of the world would consider it a trivial matter. That's the great thing about freedom of choice- we don't have to accept what anyone else thinks is good enough if we don't agree.

The dash fondling tendencies of many on this board spring to mind. For those folks, any hint of "hard plastic" is some huge trauma. Whereas, I put such things much lower on the priority list.

Conversely, the chances of getting me to buy a sedan are incredibly slim - I just don't like 4-door cars.

And, I will never buy FWD.

We all have different criteria that precludes certain vehicles from consideration, 68's is no less valid than anyone else's.

No... This is far more than that.

To put things into perspective...

Let's say Pontiac comes out with a new Fiero. The concept is absolutely stunning. I soon learn it will go into production. I am stoked. It has everything to make it the perfect Fiero. ME layout, sexy styling, flying buttresses, etc. I make it known that I will buy one when it comes out. After a year, speculation is heavy and we begin to find out certain details of the production version. One of those being that the flying buttresses will disappear for an aerodynamically superior glass hatch, but the look will remain very much the same. Because of this and my love of flying buttresses... I state that I will not buy one if this is the case, despite it being the perfect Fiero otherwise. I like quality interiors, yet I've bought a 1995 Grand Am (I think that speaks for itself). I like coupes, yet I've bought a sedan. I like sporty cars, yet I've bought a luxury car. I like manual transmissions yet I've bought a car with an automatic. I like RWD vehicles, yet I bought two FWD vehicles. And so on. These, with cars that I've stated I've liked, but obviously don't compare to my favorite, the Fiero. So, after learning the above, I would state that I wouldn't buy a modern reincarnation of a Fiero, my absolute favorite car, simply because of a lack of actual flying buttresses.

Yeah... Are you guys going to tell me that you would not bitch me out over something so petty, so hypocritical, so stupid?

3. To those that say "just be happy it's styled like your favorite generation of F-body"

I say to you: The first gen. Camaro was a car that would look ugly as sin in profile

with a modern stlyle B-pillar. The lack of a b-pillar IS A CRUCIAL part of the design!

I don't think so. Not all modern B-pillars are 4 inches wide and inhibit use of the rear passenger windows. Edited May 5, 2007 by blackviper8891

[ocnblu]

SEVEN pages on the subject of a B-pillar! Is the Camaro doomed before it hits the lots because potential buyers are distracted, fighting in writhing piles of spit and vinegar over what the car should be? This is horrible. They're doing something great by giving us this chance, and all we can do is Chicken Little it to death.

[Sixty8panther]

O.B.

My response was a result of the original post in this thread:

Chris_Doane:

With all the recent "uproar" over the Challenger B pillar....there is something you should all start warming up to...

There is a pretty good chance the Camaro is going to have one too.

Cost? Structural rigidity? Side impact?

Yea.

I agree... let's STFU and wait and see.

For what it's worth I beleive in the GM fanatics, and I trust the 5th gen.

Camaro wil be all it can be, a hardtop is a crucial part of that equation.

[hyperv6]

SEVEN pages on the subject of a B-pillar! Is the Camaro doomed before it hits the lots because potential buyers are distracted, fighting in writhing piles of spit and vinegar over what the car should be? This is horrible. They're doing something great by giving us this chance, and all we can do is Chicken Little it to death.

Just wait till they find the car will be narrower and have roof that is a 1/2 in to 1 inch higher. :AH-HA_wink:

I understand what they are sayig but I also know this is a minority. If this car sells as well to the large group expected most will never know there was or was not a pilllar.

Sales will go on and most that notice will just say I wish they could have left it out and still buy the car. This is the group I am in.

As I have said those who are this strong willed about the pillar have every rigth thos be as we all have had sonething that bugged us on a car or truck. Lets fave it look at the Chevy and GMC full size truck. They are now sporting different bodys for a reason.

At this point all has been said and it is time to move on.

It would be funny after all this the car does not have a pillar in the end and all of this was for nothing :AH-HA_wink:

Edited May 5, 2007 by hyperv6

[Sixty8panther]

Just wait till they find the car will be narrower and have roof that is a 1/2 in to 1 inch higher. :AH-HA_wink:

Yeah... that's barelly noticable. Just a tiny compromise for practicality.

Nothing worth mentioning. Nobody will ever notice, not with a naked eye.

[hyperv6]

Yeah... that's barelly noticable. Just a tiny compromise for practicality.

Nothing worth mentioning. Nobody will ever notice, not with a naked eye.

To you it may be petty

But to a few it will be bold error and show as much as the pillar does to you. They will claim the car will have lost the concepts original look. They will claim they will not buy this car for this one reason.

See it goes both ways others have to let you have your rant as well as you will theirs. I don't agree with the pillar problem but I respect your opinion and others should do the same at this point. I think this thread has gone as far as it can go.

It is time for both sides to respect each others opionion on something we have no idea which way it is going to be at this point. I think by now I know where we all stand.

Let see what the finished product is! We could all be gripping about nothing.

Edited May 5, 2007 by hyperv6

[HarleyEarl]

The little details count and this car should be a proper pillarless hardtop

as all coupes should be.

GM has to stop cutting corners and make their cars special and American again.

Edited May 5, 2007 by HarleyEarl

[ToniCipriani]

Out of my curiosity...

Was there this much uproar about pillars back when the Camaro first got B-pillars?

[dfmoeller]

It wasn't quite the same thing. The early concepts for the 2nd gen had shorter doors and a real rear window (of course, no B pillar in the heyday of the hardtop body style). The current issue of High Performance Pontiac has some pix of these early styling exercises. That was changed to make the door much longer, incorporating the rear window into one giant door window. There was no door frame. When you had the windows down, it still had the wide open feel of the hardtop. This style lived through 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen models. Thats why the ungawdly heavy/large doors.

Sixty8 - just to let you know, you are NOT alone in this insane desire to see the hardtop body return. If they don't engineer real roll down windows for the coupe, what are they going to put on the vert???? Another 80s-style wrap-around top - god, I hope not. I may be wrong, but I'm sensing a polarization on this point between those around to enjoy the hardtop body style, and those that started driving after it had disappeared (it disappeared because of roll-over safety rules - not impossible to meet if designed in, but the bodies being produced in the mid-70s were never designed to support the car on the roof without a B pillar. It did not go out of fashion due to style concerns).

I was thinking of getting a Challenger (I know - heresy) to tide me over till the Camaro arrives, but with those rear windows, probably not.

Just my $.02. If GM cheaps out on this styling point, what else are they cheaping out on? The design language of the '69 really requires no B pillar. It was this "good enough" attitude that got them in so much trouble in the first place. The devil is in the details. And so is the difference between great and "also-ran".

Doug

Out of my curiosity...

Was there this much uproar about pillars back when the Camaro first got B-pillars?

[knightfan26917]

Just wait till they find the car will be narrower and have roof that is a 1/2 in to 1 inch higher.

*chuckles*

AND that GM, in its infinite wisdom, has decided to bring it back as a FWD car, not RWD!

Cort:33swm."Mr Monte Carlo.Mr Road Trip".pig valve.pacemaker

PICS:lego.HO.model.MCinfo.RT.CHD = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

"It's not the car I want" ... George Jones ... 'The Corvette Song'

[NOS2006]

Just to comment on the interior piece... GM is trying to lure people that buy other brands to buy GM vehicles. One of GM's lowpoints has been interiors for a good while. Import and other non-GM buyers will look at GM vehicles more once GM can prove their interiors to be much better. I don't think having a B-Pillar will make a non-GM buyer not want a Camaro. However, one hell of a nice interior may definitely make them think twice about putting money down at a Chevy dealership.

[hyperv6]

Just to comment on the interior piece... GM is trying to lure people that buy other brands to buy GM vehicles. One of GM's lowpoints has been interiors for a good while. Import and other non-GM buyers will look at GM vehicles more once GM can prove their interiors to be much better. I don't think having a B-Pillar will make a non-GM buyer not want a Camaro. However, one hell of a nice interior may definitely make them think twice about putting money down at a Chevy dealership.

In the price range $32k and under that we are talking about I don't think it is that much of a factor but on the top 500+ HP edition it would be a factor at near 50K.

Most hard tops form Europe are all over $40K and things like no pillar are expected just as RWD.

The Mustang sold like hell in the 80's because it was cheap and fast. In the 30K and under market that is the important part. Also it was Cheap to modify. People did not car if it had B pillar or that the Converitble was so floppy on rough roads.

Keep in mind this car is not competing with a Benz or BMW. It is competing with the Stang and Challanger. Japan offers nothing in this market as does Europe..... yet. It is called Cheap RWD performance.

[Flybrian]

In the price range $32k and under that we are talking about I don't think it is that much of a factor but on the top 500+ HP edition it would be a factor at near 50K.

Most hard tops form Europe are all over $40K and things like no pillar are expected just as RWD.

Really? Which hardtops aside from the CLK? Most coupes have b-pillars and frameless windows. And the presence of a b-pillar doesn't seem to restrain sales of Saleen Mustangs much.

The Camaro is not a touring coupe; its a muscle car. Comparing it to a CLK and figuring on the sole factor of 'because they do it, we should too' is ridiculous.

[bowtie_dude]

Interior detail, design, and quality matter in vehicles less than $32k its still a definite factor. Thinking otherwise is idiotic. It should matter in EVERY vehicle, from $10k Aveo's to $100,000 Cadillacs. The Cobalt is a shining example of a car thats 90% there, but lacking things like better interior design and materials quality.

[ToniCipriani]

Interior detail, design, and quality matter in vehicles less than $32k its still a definite factor. Thinking otherwise is idiotic. It should matter in EVERY vehicle, from $10k Aveo's to $100,000 Cadillacs. The Cobalt is a shining example of a car thats 90% there, but lacking things like better interior design and materials quality.

Well said. Didn't the Aveo sold much better than the old one after the redesign with the new interior?

[hyperv6]

Really? Which hardtops aside from the CLK? Most coupes have b-pillars and frameless windows. And the presence of a b-pillar doesn't seem to restrain sales of Saleen Mustangs much.

The Camaro is not a touring coupe; its a muscle car. Comparing it to a CLK and figuring on the sole factor of 'because they do it, we should too' is ridiculous.

It will sell because it will be a limited model at that price but people will complain petty things just as they do about the Z06 interior. In the higher price ranges they feel they can justify the little details more.

It is not my opinion as I love the Zo6 and would own one if I could afford it. But the non loving GM people will be the first to point out anything they precieve as a flaw in the higher price range.

As far as I am concerned most will not care either way on the Camaro with a post. Most will pay the dealer mark up on any supercharged Camaro. As it get to the higher price those would be M5 buyers would never consider a Camaro in the first place only true American muscle car buyers and fans will.

If you want to play with BMW or Benz you leave that to a upgraded Pontiac Coupe on a longer wheel base.

The bottom line is today most true hard tops are expensive cars and so few are around few people have the option to buy or afford any of the ones offered.

The problem is the muscle car was once a bargin and still is when you consider what you will get in a 430 HP Camaro at $30K. But the Limited editions like the Shelby are charging near twice the price and are infringing onthe upscale car territory. If you start pricing them in that area the comparisons will come fair or not.

As for the cheaper car GM is still playing catch up to what is the expected standard. With each new model they are getting there but with so many lines it has taken a while.

I think the small GM truck have tank for the most part because of the interiors. The I5 is more powerful than most and is much better than the 4.3. But I have heard so many complaints on the interior and how it is such a turn off.

Edited May 7, 2007 by hyperv6

[Sixty8panther]

dfmoeller: Thanks for putting in your $0.02 Hardtops are addictive.

NOS: Have them fall in love with the pillarless hardtop greenhouse (exterior)

so that they actually GET inside the car so they can SEE the interior!

Fly: Back in the 1960s even the homely, cheap-assed Nova had a hardtop bodystyle

so I am very sorry to tell you your concept of "hardtops are for Luxury cars"

agrument is silly and a mentality like that is what got us glued in rear windows

to begin with. I'd rather have my head up in the clouds like a hopeless optimist

than be a doomsday pessimist like so many of you on this board. All I hear is

can't, can't, CAN'T!!!! How about for once GM does!? I will go out here on a

limb and say that the Camaro will NOT have a b-pillar in true hardtop fashion.

I was laughed at back in 2004 when I insisted that a 5th gen. Camaro will

be a reality and laughed at even more by many here when I said it should be

ubber 1st gen. retro. Seems to be when it comes to the Camaros' ressurection

I have had the last laugh more than once.

[carstar]

Can’t you just take it to some auto shop, spend a couple hundred, and make it a pillar less hardtop???

[Sixty8panther]

Can’t you just take it to some auto shop, spend a couple hundred, and make it a pillar less hardtop???

I have thought of it. I've thought of also maiking a specialty business

built around the idea of convedrting sedans into hardtops.

[Intrepidation]

Can’t you just take it to some auto shop, spend a couple hundred, and make it a pillar less hardtop???

Rear windows wouldn't be able to go down still.

[balthazar]

It certainly could be converted, and appear 'factory', but it would cost far more than a 'couple of hundred'.

[carstar]

dfmoeller: Thanks for putting in your $0.02 Hardtops are addictive.

NOS: Have them fall in love with the pillarless hardtop greenhouse (exterior)

so that they actually GET inside the car so they can SEE the interior!

Fly: Back in the 1960s even the homely, cheap-assed Nova had a hardtop bodystyle

so I am very sorry to tell you your concept of "hardtops are for Luxury cars"

agrument is silly and a mentality like that is what got us glued in rear windows

to begin with. I'd rather have my head up in the clouds like a hopeless optimist

than be a doomsday pessimist like so many of you on this board. All I hear is

can't, can't, CAN'T!!!! How about for once GM does!? I will go out here on a

limb and say that the Camaro will NOT have a b-pillar in true hardtop fashion.

I was laughed at back in 2004 when I insisted that a 5th gen. Camaro will

be a reality and laughed at even more by many here when I said it should be

ubber 1st gen. retro. Seems to be when it comes to the Camaros' ressurection

I have had the last laugh more than once.

I doubt that because that is more of a cutting-cost issue, in which gm dosen't have loads of money, while the other two is more of product planning.

[carstar]

Rear windows wouldn't be able to go down still.

but it would cost far more than a 'couple of hundred'

there goes my hopes for that idea

[daves87rs]

Interior detail, design, and quality matter in vehicles less than $32k its still a definite factor. Thinking otherwise is idiotic. It should matter in EVERY vehicle, from $10k Aveo's to $100,000 Cadillacs. The Cobalt is a shining example of a car thats 90% there, but lacking things like better interior design and materials quality.

Agreed.

[NOS2006]

NOS: Have them fall in love with the pillarless hardtop greenhouse (exterior)

so that they actually GET inside the car so they can SEE the interior!

Honestly, they won't say "it has a B-pillar so I won't even look inside." You're battling a never-ending war of ignorance.

[Sixty8panther]

This is going to be the third, or perhaps fourth post in this thread where I say let's drop it.

Vanilla/Chocolate.

[prinzSD]

... And one more thing:

Trends have to begin somewhere, and I'd like to see some of them come from GM. If pillarless hardtops became a trend, then all would have to pay the cost of admission and we would get more beautiful cars as a result.

I tend to think it won't be a big issue, maybe to those Camaro faithfull who owned a 1 st gen car it will be annoying. To the rest of us F body fans who know some history and the general public who knows next to nothing it will not make a difference. Why do I say this? As an F-body fan who's first car was a 1976 LT Camaro (bought in 79), who's second and third cars were and still are a third gen 1985 (bought in 85) and fourth gen 1993 Trans Am (bought in 1993) who never noticed that small detail in the 1st gen Camaro C pillar vs the fifth gen B-pillar, I say who cares. It is such a trivial issue that I really could care less. The car looks awesome and I am greatfull it is coming back.

[Sixty8panther]

You own a Lexus Minivan & a Corolla wagon AUTOMATIC.

Sorry to say your opinion is NOT valid. :AH-HA_wink:

[Drew Dowdell]

This is going to be the third, or perhaps fourth post in this thread where I say let's drop it.

Chocolate Macadamia crunch/Chocolate Macadamia caramel crunch

fixed