COMPACT CARS

[A Horse With No Name]

...so the general consensus is ANYTHING as long as it is NOT from Detroit.

Actually, no. I just don't like most of the current offerings. Would you spend your own money on a Caliber?

Besides, I think that I included the Sky, Solstice, and Cobalt SS/SC in my list of desireable small cars. When Ford brings back the SVT Focus I will be the first in line at my local Ford dealer to buy one.

I am a huge fan of the Neon ACR, Neon R/T, The old Turbo Mopars of the 80's, and a lot of other small domestic cars. They just lost me with the Caliber and the Ugly, Ugly Focus restyle.

Chris

[MyerShift]

My list of compact cars "currently" in production would include:

1.) Opel/Vauxhall/Holden/Saturn Astra

2.) Volkswagen Golf (Mk V)

3.) Mazda3

4.) Chrysler PT Cruiser

4.1) FIAT Bravo (if here- it looks great)

5.) Scion tC

6.) Honda Civic Coupe

7.) Chevrolet Cobalt/Pontiac G5

8.) Dodge Caliber

9.) Suzuki SX4

10.) Toyota Corolla XRS

I tried to go for somewhat conventional small cars versus anything that is small like the Mini, Sky/Solstice/GT, A3, and others including things like the Aveo, xA, and xB (current models).

[MyerShift]

Better yet...

Don't 'baby Maxima' me on this; remove the stacked headlamps, and you have zero resemblance to the Maxima.

I agree. This shows that the ION did inspire other designs, it's just that the ION was so poorly executed that no one noticed.

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah... I'd rather discuss B-pillars or the lack thereof than beat the whole

Ion/Sentra discussion to death. Either way you can't polish a turd. If you

ask me both the Ion and Sentra are ugly assed, piece of crap economy

cars for college students with no taste. The Wal*Mart disposable cameras

of the Automotive world.

[chevelle454]

66 Nova SS with 327/350 HP 11.1 compression

69 Nova ss396

70 Yenko Duece

69 Yenko 427 Nova(so fast and scary, it even scared Don Yenko)

[Variance]

You guys have yet to answer the question why Nissan would possibly want to copy the Ion. What, did they sit around thinking: "Hmm, let's design the Sentra after the ugliest POS compact that most everybody laughs at. Yeah, that'll be a sales success!"

Please.

[Sixty8panther]

Variance:

I agree... the ION is ugly, but the Sentra is neither good looking or original.

[CARBIZ]

...........well, the general consensus amongst 80 or salesguys at a GM training session a few months back, as we poured over the Sentra, is that the outside was and is a complete copy of the (get ready for it) Ion. Just my two cents.

[A Horse With No Name]

66 Nova SS with 327/350 HP 11.1 compression

69 Nova ss396

70 Yenko Duece

69 Yenko 427 Nova(so fast and scary, it even scared Don Yenko)

The Nova is a classic, classic good looking car that is a hoot to drive with that much power.

Too bad good donor cars for clones seem to be going thorugh the roof price wise. I would like to build a Yenko Nova Clone.

A co worker had a 27,000 Mi blue 6 Cyl Nova he put a warmed over LS-6 in. That thing would scream!

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...........well, the general consensus amongst 80 or salesguys at a GM training session a few months back, as we poured over the Sentra, is that the outside was and is a complete copy of the (get ready for it) Ion. Just my two cents.

Funny how cars copy each other, though. Look at the front of a 65 Plymouth and a 65 Ford. Same stacked headlights, similar grill, same basic boxy shape...

Which is why I like cars like the Mini Cooper S, Sky, etc.

Life is too short to drive boring cars.

Chris

[thegriffon]

In no particular order:

overseas Ford Focus (Europe, Asia, Africa)—just a shame about the engines.

Volvo C30

BMW 1-series 3-door

Citroen C4 Berline

Opel Astra GTC/Caravan 1.6 Turbo/1.7 CDTi 125

Mercedes B-Class

Honda Civic Type R sedan

Toyota Allion/Toyopet Premio (still better than the new Corolla, and now cheaper too; but only for more savvy Japanese who have done their homework [which Toyota apparently hasn't])

Toyota Caldina GT-four (ditto).

Edited May 6, 2007 by thegriffon

[LosAngeles]

I'm not gonna be ridiculous and throw roadsters in on a discussion of everyday-use compacts.

What I would seriously look at, however, goes like this, in this order:

HHR (2.4 and stick)

Mazda3 hatch (maybe the 'Speed, if it doesn't require premium)

Cobalt SS

Astra (liked it as a Vauxhall, should like it as a Saturn)

Ion Quad Coupe Redline

Caliber (maybe the SRT-4 if it doesn't take premium)

top of the line Vibe with stick

Lancer RalliArt wagon

Spectra 5

the VW A5 gang

Elantra

Forenza

Focus wagon

Civic's too ubiquitous, I'm waiting for a Sentra SE-R, Corolla/Matrix just doesn't do it for me. I'll take a used WRX

[91z4me]

5 doors: Caliber, HHR.

Sedans: Civic, Sentra, Mazda 3, Cobalt, Ion.

Astra not included b/c not available yet.

[Camino LS6]

Let's say I let my dogs out this morning and the result is two steaming piles in the yard, the net effect is the same as the Ion /Sentra debate.

Obviously one was designed first, but they are both the same steaming pile.

[derrado]

[2007]

1. Mazda3

2. Civic

3. Rabbit

4. Lancer

5. HHR

6. Impreza

7. Focus

8. Cobalt

9. Sentra

10. Elantra

11. Vibe

12. Matrix

13. Caliber

14. PT Cruiser

15. SX4

16. Forenza/Reno

17. Corolla

18. Spectra

19= Aerio

19= Ion

[A Horse With No Name]

The 3 is indeed a hell of a car....

Chris

[§carlet §wordfish]

Saturn Astra 5 door

Saturn coupe (1st or 3rd gen)

Saturn ION quad coupe or Red Line

Golf I or II

Cobalt coupe

G5 coupe

Focus 3 door

Celica

MINI Cooper

PT Cruiser convertible

[A Horse With No Name]

The 1st gen Saturn tends to feel "cheap" however they hold up damned well up here in the rust belt. Your pick of the MINI Cooper would be possibly higher if A. the car weren't tested on those stupid run flat tires and B. it was more reliable than it is...

Ford just needs to belly up to the bar and bring the "real" Focus here to the states.

Chris

[gm4life]

Cobalt SS Non-supercharged Coupe 5spd. - 1st Tie with G5 GT 5spd.

Astra XR (Hatch) stick - 2nd

Mistu Lancer GTS - 3rd

Civic Si - 4th

Corolla S 5spd - 5th (yes I put a Toyota on my list)

Edited June 15, 2007 by gm4life

[regfootball]

how does the new IMPREZA fit in all of this?

now, with the civic recalls, i would say this DROPS them down further they FALL OFF the list.

[CMG]

...so the general consensus is ANYTHING as long as it is NOT from Detroit.

I'm near the opposite.

Truth be told, when I hear "compact" my mind translates it to "Cheap junk". Right or wrong, when I hear compact I think of flimsy doors closing with no real solid feeling at all.

I'm not a compact car fan. I don't mind the looks of a few of the late model Mazdas, but with no seat time I wouldn't want to guess.

Isn't the Sky/Solstice a "sports car", and not a "compact"? Maybe the terms have changed without me knowing..?

[Argen]

Mazdaspeed 3

Volvo C30

BMW 128i (cheapest one we'll get)

Saturn Astra (3-door)

Pontiac G5 GT

Chevy Cobalt (if they bring back the SS without the horrid wing)

Chevy HHR (if you can get the SS with the panel)

Suzuki SX4

[K.C.]

Let's say I let my dogs out this morning and the result is two steaming piles in the yard, the net effect is the same as the Ion /Sentra debate.

Obviously one was designed first, but they are both the same steaming pile.

[LosAngeles]

Chevy HHR (if you can get the SS with the panel)

Never gonna happen. Not a car company on the planet believes in taking away passenger capability from a performance car that already has it.

I doubt the panels will even have sticks.

[richbaker]

hehehe thats right!! good one man!

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[regfootball]

cheap compacts......where are we at now with this segment?

Cruze not here yet.

Focus nothing new except some improvements in the 09's.

Calibre gets a new and still not knockout interior.

G5, Astra gone. Not much time left for Cobalt. Aveo is primitive. HHR also whats next.

Jetta soldiers on. Golf is new. Jetta will get some of the same elements as the Golf.

C30 and S40 are nice but almost lux.

Mini still around.

Civic still sucks. Fit now seems to have the hype subsided.

Corolla is as corolla does.

Mazda3 is new but reminds us of Pontiacs cladding days. At least the drive is there.

Sentra sucks. Versa sucks x5.

Impreza plods on.

Lancer gets a hatchback added.

SX4 gets new model variants and boost to 150hp/6 sp man.

Forte is a big step up for Kia.

Elantra enjoys the CR faithful love.

Vibe is dead now! Matrix lives on.

PT Cruiser gets a stay of execution.

what am i leaving out.

[A Horse With No Name]

Things are looking up with the new Fords and the new refresh on the VW product.

My next car will be a small one...my current thinking would be

1. See what the Ford Focus is like when it is revamped

2. See what is available in terms of a very gently used HHR SS.

3. Obviously, MINI Cooper, prefer S.

4. VW Golf in either the GTI or TDI flavor.

That's it...the more I look at the Civic, the less I like it. Which is painful because I have a lot of friends that work for Honda and tell me what a great car it is...but my wife just hates the new Civic, even in the Si trim. Fit is a neat smallcar but a little too small, and I don't like the styling inside or out, either one.

Chryco-Nothing of value

Astra-Great small car, resale will tank and the after market will never even know this car was built as far as us available stuff goes.

Cobalt SS - Cool, but not sure it's love to the point of the 60 payment thing.

Nissan-Everything they build other than the 370 Z pretty much sucks, and I'd rather have a Vette Used than a 370Z new, plus a 370 is not a small car and not four seats, so...nothing from Nissan.

Toyota-Corolla is bland, Matrix is ugly, what am I missing? Be interesting to see what happens with the Joint venture with Subaru and the coming RWD/AWD sports car. Methinks with the current climate that car will be more or less vaporware.

Scion-One hit wonder. TC, not very impressive, XD, so ugly I would be embarrased to ride in one, xB (current model) What the original Chryco minivan should have been.

Suzuki-Who cars?

Mitsu-Screwed the pooch on the E-Clipse, Lancer is nearly midsized and IMHO not good looking...

Audi-builds some nice upscale stuff but...

C-30-still looks like a yuppie mommiemobile from the front, less than stellar suspension tuning, hard to find in manual, less than stellar aftermarket support...and its a Volvo.

Kia-Improved, but still not up to snuff.

Hyundai-Great marketing, bland cars.

What am I missing?

Chris

[regfootball]

I of course have been a huge Ford banger but i admit their new kinetic angry fish styling is not entirely engaging to me. but it sounds like the hardware will be fantastic. especially with an ecoboost. i fear ford will not keep MSRP's under control.

The dealer i bought my Aztek from has had rotting on their lot a new 09 HHR SS stick which i would love to make them an offer to. Problem is, the MSRP is 27 grand. I don't care if the handling is good and its got power, to me that vehicle will be worth 16, 17 once i drive it off the lot. The price needs to come down on that. I have test driven one, it didn't feel as fast as I thought it would. Maybe I just didn't lay into it hard enough. I know the stage kit makes it faster. I would for sure be interested in one if the right deal came along. I sat in a nice blue HHR SS 08 used with 4k on the odo a few months back. They had it priced at 18. In that scenario its pretty close to a decent buy. My guess is that that new HHR ends up back at GM for somebody to put a few miles on and then it ends up back on the used market.

I have no desire to own a Mini. I do not deny that they are good driving cars.

I like the VW stuff esp the new Golf and Jetta/SW. Esp the TDI intrigues me even though i drove a TDI/DSG and did not like the DSG. I don't like VW's five cylinder brick either. The turbo of course is the way to go and last year you could have gotten a wolfsburg jetta with the turbo really cheap. But VW's styling has been soft for me (new golf is an improvement) and i really don't want to be lumped into that crowd who buys a VW. Plus VW's reliability scares me. Why VW cannot put a nice aluminum responsive basic four cylinder in their volume offerings is beyond me. They simply do not want to. They want to upsell you to the GTI or TDI.

The Civic is a barfbag. I don't care 'how cool hondas are' truth is the car is selling on name only. Rode in my buddies Civic a few weeks back and i could not keep from chucking. the dash is horrible. the car has good basic virtue for transportation but it is not top of class. the poor styling and interior make it a bottom feeder to me.

I like the Fit a little. But its underpowered, and the chassis still feels cheap and insubstantial. The interior is horrible and overall the car still feels cheap. I thought it was an ok drive but other cars are much more refined and as fun if not more (Astra cough).

Caliber would have been a nice package with a decent interior (even the new one is lackluster) but msot of all it drives like crap. Too bad chrylser.

Agree in Nissan. The Z car is amazing and fantastic. If the interior was less starchy I could honestly consider the notion of a Z Car before a corvette. Nissan used to have nice compacts. How they botched that is amazing. The Versa is one of the worst cars i drove recently.

Nissan-Everything they build other than the 370 Z pretty much sucks, and I'd rather have a Vette Used than a 370Z new, plus a 370 is not a small car and not four seats, so...nothing from Nissan.

Its fun to watch the Toyota crush being dissolved. The newest WRX update prob saved Subaru from being forgotten. The base Impreza is a good competent car but is a boring drive and it sucks fuel.

I think Suzuki has hope. I have test driven the SX4 twice now and liked it. Its like a Fit with more amenities and refinement. I would consider buying one. The neighbor (who works for dodge and also is a huge car fan, owns an SSR) has an SX4 and they LOVE it. I think once suzuki gets the Kizashi and Swift here you will see Suzuki find their niche more. The SUV market dried up and they realized they don't need to be part of it. I think the Kizashi will surprise some folks but the MSRP will need to be several thou less than the competition in order for it to sell.

I think the Lancer is a decent vehicle. It seems solidly built. I have not driven one yet. I like the interior. The 5 year BTB is a huge plus. I am not crazy about the hatchback styling perse but the fact its offered is a plus. They could stand to drop prices a bit. I think its a better alternative than the Civic although the fuel economy does suck ass a bit on the Lancer. The Eclipse GT to me a nice FWD option for someone like me that wants a vehicle with a bit of a sporting tinge and is winter friendly. Not many FWD v6 6 speed man sport coupes out there. they could have put a real back seat and cargo room in it.

I like the C30 aside from the stupid dash board and ugly front end. Aft of the front wheel the C30 is more to my liking styling wise than the Mini.

I test drove a Forte by Kia. FOr a commuter car, its enjoyable enough. Only to a certain price point though.

I thought the Cobalt SS was an engaging car but really the interior does get to you when the price point is that much higher. Like you said, writing the check for 60 months is HARD when the car is so fun but doesn't offer the least bit of upscale touches anywhere (aside from a nice feeling steering wheel).

You know my feelings on the Astra. It feels so solid and to me has the right balance of ride and handling, steering feel. It feels lighter than the VW's but not flimsy like the Hondas and Toyotas. The XR 3 door with 18" and summer tires has a tish too stiff of a ride for me. The XR 5 door with the sport pack and 17" wheels / AS tires is right on for me. The car is not great with an automatic. You need the manual. Car should have gotten more power and a 6 speed for this market. The buying market in this car is screwed up because of the Saturn way of doing business (good riddance Saturn). They made a lot of mistakes selling and marketing this car. I can't find one now new the way I want and the used market still hasn't brought the prices down to reality because many of the used ones are being sold as saturn certified. The chevy dealer in town has a 3 door XR with 662 miles on it on their used lot here, but its priced way too high and has an automatic. I'd love to buy new but it seems like if i want one I will just have to gradually over time wait for the right used one to show up for a cheap price. I refuse to overpay for this car because the values will drop like a rock.

I am sure the Mazda3 is a great car but the immature personality this car has gotten now turns me off to it completely. For my money the VW products will probably be top of the rung aside from that for awhile until the new Focus comes on board. I have no faith that the new Astra will be sold here like it should be.....if it is a Buick, GM will eff uck that up I am most certain. Either I won't get a 5 door, or the styling will be messed up, or they will decontent it, not offer the right powertrain, or price it uncompetitively.

I'll prob get stuck in a Cruze. I'll need to use my GM card at some point again. I hear the Cruze is roomy at least. The dash is not too bad. My fear is the Cruze will drive just like the Kia Forte. Pleasant but not at all creating desire.

[A Horse With No Name]

reg, there are no good answers.

MINI right now has a problem with a cold start knock in their motors. Go to Northamericanmotoring.com. to read about it. Until they solve that...meh. Hopefully they solve it...but they are on their 4th "fix" now.

Focus...if they come out with an SVT version...hmmm...but your right about the kinetic angry fish thing. I would have to really talk hard to get my wife to buy the styling on the Focus. She is not a fangirl of it...

HHR SS...I would have been tempted for 18K in blue. Too many in red and black, Hyperv6 and I have already had that little talk. Perhaps a little heavy up top for a track day or an autocross. Plus...you can't delete the sunroof with an HHR SS, can you? That would be a deal breaker for me as I do not want a sunroof or an automatic for any reason or under any conditions. A new GTI at four grand for the whole car with the DSG would still be a big "no" for me.

Methinks I am heading for GTI ownership, which is slightly problematic...but may be my best choice...

Chris

[regfootball]

i actually wouldn't want the HHR in black. since i don't race, the sunroof and top heaviness is no issue for me. i would prob prefer blue. Orange is another option as is the red. i would want to add the stage kit.

a lot of the hhrs available are the panel ones too...i dont want that.

see to me, to pay mid twenties for something like that, i could buy something like an altima 3.5/6 speed that would be equally as fast and more accomodating. that is the problem with hopped up compacts, there are often mid sizers that can be had for the same price which are as fast or faster.

hell i could conceivably get a new camaro for around 25k. why would i get an HHR SS instead of a camaro aside from maybe a front drive winter preference and it being a little more accomodating for fam use.

i was just reading motor trends recent cruze article. the 1.4 turbo is intriguing. i wonder what the trunk size is compared to the malibu. it wouldnt surprise me if the cruze trunk is as big.

also, a focus with ecoboost wont be much cheaper than a fusion with it too, in that case i would go fusion.

Edited September 15, 2009 by regfootball

[A Horse With No Name]

Not holding my breath on the Cruze. HHR has the advan of being 4 doors.

Aside from racing, I don't like sunroofs because they leak, dammit! Doesn't matter if its an Audi or a Porsche or a Nissan or a Honda or a Chevy. A sunroof is a deal breaker for me because I don't want water in the car.

If I wanted water in the car I would buy a vintage Mustang Convertible.

The VW GTI thing has the disadvantadge of having a rather immature owners group in some ways. Go check out VW Vortex and the Car Lounge and you will swear that you are back in 7th grade.

Chris

[regfootball]

checked out a Lancer hatchback this weekend. didn't drive it or sit in it, but despite it not looking great in pictures I actually liked it in person and much preferred it over the sedan.

so as far as compacts go, to me, i would consider one. still has poor mpg, and a new 4 cyl galant is just as cheap, but i like the Lancer interior, its spacious, ok price, and the warranty is great.

the Mazda3 is a good car, but its new popularity with the immature boy racer set, and the big cheese grille have turned me off that car completely.

Still can't wait to see the 010 Golf.

SX4 gets 150hp and 6 speed manual std for 010 as well.

[A Horse With No Name]

010 GTI FTW!

Chris