33 dead in Va. Tech shooting rampage

[Oracle of Delphi]

BLACKSBURG, Va. - At least 22 people were killed Monday in a shooting rampage on the Virginia Tech campus, police said. They said the gunman was among the dead.

In addition to those killed, officials said at least 28 people were wounded.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said the gunman was dead, but that he didn't know how he died.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university President Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/

Just senseless!!!

Edited April 18, 2007 by CSpec

[SuperSport623]

i dont understand.... im guessing after killing all those people, he killed himself.. so why couldnt he just off himself? its horrible taking out innocent people with him

[Derek77]

I'm not trying to be mean or make light of the situation, but if this happened a week earlier, Imus would still have a job.

[Derek77]

31 dead now.

[aaaantoine]

I'm not trying to be mean or make light of the situation, but if this happened a week earlier, Imus would still have a job.

An interesting observation.

I can't really comment on this shooting. It shouldn't have happened, plain and simple. But it did. This just goes to show you how suddenly you can lose your life over something completely unexpected.

[Robert Hall]

CNN is saying 31 now..

This kind of event is going to be a sad presence on that campus for decades to come, I'm afraid....

My undegrad college was notorious for riots that left 4 students dead in 1970, and that was still an event that I was well aware of when I was there in the early '90s...

[Camino LS6]

"Tin soldiers and Nixon's gone..."

[Oracle of Delphi]

Forgetting O HI O!

[trinacriabob]

Some people are despondent and take their own lives. Are they cowards? Maybe, but we don't walk in their shoes. Some people are maladjusted and take other people's lives and then their own? Are they cowards? Yes, of the worst kind.

I think this happened at UT-Austin as well and that's why those college campaniles tend to be off limits now. But, unfortunately, no one is completely safe.

Weird in the sense that I was super interested in going to their arch-rival, U-Va Charlottesville, for grad school in architecture. I didn't get in because they had 260 applicants for the 20 spots in the extended M.Arch. (for unrelated prior degrees). I stood a much better chance of getting into Va. Tech., based on the applicant ratio, but if I was going to go to the East Coast, it was going to be snooty U-Va or NOTHING.

We can say it's a sign of the times but these cowardly acts have occurred every century, it seems. It's just that maladjusted people exist everywhere and we need to be on guard to the best that we can. My thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, their families, friends and those who will be traumatized by this senseless lunacy.

[CSpec]

This story is indeed shocking. Very rarely do news stories get worse over time. Usually there is some initial estimate that comes down drastically, but this story was the other way around. It went from 1 fatality to "at least" 20 fatalities in one press conference.

[Chris_Doane]

I'm not trying to be mean or make light of the situation, but if this happened a week earlier, Imus would still have a job.

I know you said you didn't mean to make light of the situation....but....seriously. So far 32 innocent people are dead. Who gives a f@#k about Don Imus at this point?

Edited April 16, 2007 by Chris_Doane

[tmp]

God it gets worse-

He killed a two people in a dorm and then crossed canpus and killed 30 more in a building two hours later. How the hell does that happen? Two people shot to death in a dorm room and there's no lockdown? Not good..

[Screaming Trees]

Here is a copy of President Bush's statement on the shootings at Tech.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

What worries me is copycat shooters.

Unfortunately, I'm sure it'll happen.

[ocnblu]

Shocking, horrible beyond belief. What else is there to say? As I shut off my radio tonight in the truck, they weren't even sure if the two events were related (dorm/classroom). I hope the mystery surrounding this whole mess gets solved quickly.

[CSpec]

The scenes from witnesses in the building sound absolutely terrifying... the guy just walked room to room killing everyone he could.

[capriceman]

Why?

Trust me theres Nothing gratifying in taking a life.

In Todays society NO ONE will care if you need to see professional help with these things. Thats why they are there so you don't go on killing sprees.

Very Shameful.

[Derek77]

I know you said you didn't mean to make light of the situation....but....seriously. So far 32 innocent people are dead. Who gives a f@#k about Don Imus at this point?

It was just a thought. Think about it. The 24 hour media channels were looking for something to talk about since the whole Anna Nicole $h! was dead on arrival. Boy that affected the hell out of my life, how about you. They were looking for a new story last week, and they got a $h!ty one with Imus. Who would have payed any attention to the stupid non-racist remark he made. They needed something to fill dead air. Now that they have this, they will be....... happy now. How f@#king stupid it is, but its the damn truth.

How many people on this board watched the 24 hour news channel tonight for the latest interview with another student and where they were and what did they hear and what have you heard? The story has changed a 100 times already in 12 hours. This is the problem with news these days. They are so eager to get the latest hear-say to the dumb-masses that take it for fact.

So tomorrow when you get to work, count how many times somebody says, "I heard on (any news channel) that...." You'll hear it.

Can't we just wait on the facts to be known. I get tired of hearing questions on the news. THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO GIVE ME ANSWERS!! IF YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING STFU!!!

AMF

Adios My Friend

Chris, this post wasn't directed to you, more like society. It's just that this sad event makes a lot of people happy and I had to let it out because it pisses me off. Thanks

[CSpec]

American news stations are all horrible. Period. Except of course for Fox News, which isn't news, just Rupert Murdoch's personal opinion put on the air.

[Chris_Doane]

It was just a thought. Think about it. The 24 hour media channels were looking for something to talk about since the whole Anna Nicole $h! was dead on arrival. Boy that affected the hell out of my life, how about you. They were looking for a new story last week, and they got a $h!ty one with Imus. Who would have payed any attention to the stupid non-racist remark he made. They needed something to fill dead air. Now that they have this, they will be....... happy now. How f@#king stupid it is, but its the damn truth.

How many people on this board watched the 24 hour news channel tonight for the latest interview with another student and where they were and what did they hear and what have you heard? The story has changed a 100 times already in 12 hours. This is the problem with news these days. They are so eager to get the latest hear-say to the dumb-masses that take it for fact.

So tomorrow when you get to work, count how many times somebody says, "I heard on (any news channel) that...." You'll hear it.

Can't we just wait on the facts to be known. I get tired of hearing questions on the news. THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO GIVE ME ANSWERS!! IF YOU DON'T KNOW ANYTHING STFU!!!

AMF

Adios My Friend

Chris, this post wasn't directed to you, more like society. It's just that this sad event makes a lot of people happy and I had to let it out because it pisses me off. Thanks

No, I know what you mean...your first post just came off as kind of insensitive and with horribly skewed priorities. However, this tragedy isn't nearly in the same league as Anna Nicole fluff. As horrible as the whole thing is, it IS very significant news. Terrible, awful, but significant, news. It warrants significant, continued coverage as the story becomes more clear. That said, in the coming week and weeks, the coverage could very well start to go overboard.

You are right about rumors sometimes being given too much weight. Especially in breaking news situations. Honestly I don't think ANYONE is "happy" about this. Even the most cynical news exec isn't happy about 32 dead kids and teachers. Most people in the news business were getting ready to cover the Alberto Gonzalez hearings anyway.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Chris_Doane

[FAPTurbo]

I have a feeling when I head back to college, I should grab myself some Kevlar...

Seriously, dub tee eff? Why can't these idiots just off themselves, instead of taking a horde of defenceless, innocent people with them. Innocent people with friends, and family, and futures...

... All gone because of some depressed wacko with a bunch of guns feels he has to share his pain.

[CARBIZ]

I am bored already with this subject. My morning newspaper included 5 full pages to this idiotic rampage, including dragging up all the past ones and, of course, adding a Canadian angle to it.

I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO READ ANYTHING ABOUT THIS RAMPAGE. That is the point, more losers with a gun figure they can make headlines and go down in a blaze of glory, be remembered forever. Sad, just sad. I will not participate in it.

I blame the media. Again.

[mustang84]

I found out about this late last night...what a horrific event. I just don't understand people sometimes...and why didn't the campus alert everyone after the first two were killed. I read that the administration believed that the gunman had fled campus...what a lousy excuse. Someone in the upper levels of the admin at VT is going to get heat over that.

[aaaantoine]

I have a feeling when I head back to college, I should grab myself some Kevlar...

Or you could switch to online courses and spend the rest of your life as a hermit.

Seriously, you can't predict this sort of thing. If you spend the rest of your life wearing kevlar, you will end up getting hit by a train instead.

Though it does give you an upper hand in armed muggings...

[trinacriabob]

Well, they identified the perpetrator. Whenever they reveal the profiles of these people, it's not very pleasant.

In addtition to the destruction he created, his family will have to live with the stigma of who their son was. In the Pacific Northwest, Ted Bundy's mom, who was from Tacoma WA, reportedly had these kinds of troubles whenever she went into a store or a service establishment and had to give her name. It's so sad that these people leave a bad legacy on so many levels.

[thegriffon]

One gunman in a classroom full of people, should not be able to kill more than two or three people. People just don't know how to respond in a situation like that.

[Camino LS6]

One gunman in a classroom full of people, should not be able to kill more than two or three people. People just don't know how to respond in a situation like that.

Been thinking about that aspect of it myself...

[Northstar]

One gunman in a classroom full of people, should not be able to kill more than two or three people. People just don't know how to respond in a situation like that.

How so? You want them to come and tackle him and force the gun out of his hands? He had 9mm clips with 15 rounds/clip and it's easy to change clips when one runs out... Also, he didn't just go up to them at point-blank range and shoot. At least how I picture this situation is that the gunman walks into the classroom, says nothing, and shoots the professor. Then opens fire on random people. I think if someone tried to run after him and stop him he'd have plenty of time to shoot them in the process.

Or is that not what you meant?

[thegriffon]

Someone, yes, but you have a whole classroom full of people. If he's going to shoot you anyway, pick up a chair and then a desk and throw them at him, hard. If you have thirty people throwing furniture at you and attacking you you'll have trouble holding a gun, let along firing it and least of all re-loading. I understand that people's first reaction is to duck and hide, but unless he's just running by, that will only get you killed.

[capriceman]

Seriously, you can't predict this sort of thing. If you spend the rest of your life wearing kevlar, you will end up getting hit by a train instead.

god i hope i don't get hit by a train. Because that would scratch the vest and my last one cost damn near $3500

[Camino LS6]

Someone, yes, but you have a whole classroom full of people. If he's going to shoot you anyway, pick up a chair and then a desk and throw them at him, hard. If you have thirty people throwing furniture at you and attacking you you'll have trouble holding a gun, let along firing it and least of all re-loading. I understand that people's first reaction is to duck and hide, but unless he's just running by, that will only get you killed.

I agree, but in this society we are conditioned to not respond with force. Perhaps we should take a hard look at that.

[Flybrian]

I agree, but in this society we are conditioned to not respond with force. Perhaps we should take a hard look at that.

We're not? Been to an NHL playoff game? Seen two Puerto Rican girls go after one guy? Been shopping day after Thanksgiving?

[Derek77]

Someone, yes, but you have a whole classroom full of people. If he's going to shoot you anyway, pick up a chair and then a desk and throw them at him, hard. If you have thirty people throwing furniture at you and attacking you you'll have trouble holding a gun, let along firing it and least of all re-loading. I understand that people's first reaction is to duck and hide, but unless he's just running by, that will only get you killed.

Not to mention that handguns aren't that accurate, and if you are darting around, it makes you that much harder to stop. But I'm with you griff.

I agree, but in this society we are conditioned to not respond with force. Perhaps we should take a hard look at that.

Just call 911.

They will save you. At least that's what they tell you. They don't say save yourself.

[CSpec]

The stories from the classroom survivors were basically that people hit the ground and waited for the guy to leave. At least people down the hall were smart enough to barricade the door...

CNN had this guy who runs some SWAT-team school and he was royally pissed that the cops were just standing around outside while there were shots being fired inside the building. I think he has a point.

[Oracle of Delphi]

We're not? Been to an NHL playoff game? Seen two Puerto Rican girls go after one guy? Been shopping day after Thanksgiving?

Been to an Italian family reunion?

Edited April 17, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Camino LS6]

We're not? Been to an NHL playoff game? Seen two Puerto Rican girls go after one guy? Been shopping day after Thanksgiving?

It's a matter of context, in the "crazy man with a gun" context we are conditioned to comply with demands and/or seek help from the authorities.

As for your example questions:

1. Yes

2. No, but I have a vivid imagination :AH-HA_wink:

3. Not on your life! Black Friday shopping is for fools!

[capriceman]

People just don't know how to respond in a situation like that.

Take the average person if you start shooting at them they will freeze up from shock and fear. yes if they all mobbed together they could of accomplished something, but I doubt only 5% of them where in a condition to counter attack.

Yeah we can plan in it our heads on what we would of done. Its not until it happens to you that you know what emotion and panic ensues as something shocking happens like this. Unless your trained or prepared for something like this to happen I bet you would panic or freeze up.

Talk is everything until it happens to you.

Getting shot fells like someone stabbed you with a hot soldering iron. so its not like you only have a flesh wound and can keep fighting.

Its just horrible to think that kids getting a education and preparing for a successful life get shot up. If it were some druggies it would be much better. Although this goes without saying that a bet more than 33 where killed/injured in Iraq in the past couple of days and thats been going on for 4-5 years.

[CSpec]

Its just horrible to think that kids getting a education and preparing for a successful life get shot up. If it were some druggies it would be much better. Although this goes without saying that a bet more than 33 where killed/injured in Iraq in the past couple of days and thats been going on for 4-5 years.

This is something I forgot to mention. Attacks that are 3 times as big as this happen in Iraq every day. Puts things into perspective.

[Camino LS6]

Yes but, more Americans die violently in Philadelphia each year than in Iraq.

One of the hot topics in the mayoral race.

[Northstar]

The war in Iraq is similar in that Americans are losing their lives, but at least those in the Armed Forces realize they're in a war zone and have more than adequate weapons to protect themselves. The Va Tech case consisted of students unknowingly (at least for a while) being in a combat zone without any form of adequate self-defense.

[CSpec]

The war in Iraq is similar in that Americans are losing their lives, but at least those in the Armed Forces realize they're in a war zone and have more than adequate weapons to protect themselves. The Va Tech case consisted of students unknowingly (at least for a while) being in a combat zone without any form of adequate self-defense.

I meant Iraqis going about their daily business.

[knightfan26917]

*shakes head*

It's just so ... tragic.

Thoughts/prayers to the victims and their family/friends.......

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[thegriffon]

The stories from the classroom survivors were basically that people hit the ground and waited for the guy to leave. At least people down the hall were smart enough to barricade the door...

CNN had this guy who runs some SWAT-team school and he was royally pissed that the cops were just standing around outside while there were shots being fired inside the building. I think he has a point.

I was thinking that, but then I remember reading there were cops apparently seraching the building and telling people to get out.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

One gunman in a classroom full of people, should not be able to kill more than two or three people. People just don't know how to respond in a situation like that.

I've put a lot of thought into this over the last few days.

I have always been taught to fight; (As you can probably tell from my posts here, I have a lot of fight in me) you're supposed to fight your way out of situations like this and not just 'allow' someone to kill you. If you're killed while fighting, then at least you weren't a victim. So it's safe to say that if someone came into my classroom with a gun, I would be one of those people who would have one objective: to kill that asshole who is praying on innocent victims. Just like if I witnessed someone harming or robbing another person on the street. This comes from 1) my upbringing and 2) The fact that I absolutely HATE people who prey on the innocent.

However, the reality of the situation is that these people were sitting ducks and probably NEVER in a million years expected anything like this to happen. I mean, I'm quick to react to threats, but if someone came into my classroom and started shooting, the first thing I'd do is panic and run for cover; It's just a natural reaction. Maybe once I got into the right frame of mind and realized what was going on I'd certainly try to do something about the coward with the gun, but by then it might be too late.

I dunno, I just don't think it's as cut and dry as 'taking the guy' out. The only exception might be the people in the 2nd and 3rd classrooms because they had a chance to anticipate it. (albeit a very short chance)

It's just sad that this coward wanted attention so badly that he felt he had to take 30 other young lives.

And BTW, as for the media trash in our society, I'm active on Facebook as well and had joined one of the many condolence grounps for VT. Not 2 hours after the shootings happened, representatives from CNN and Fox were on the page begging for footage or descriptions of the "carnage" (as CNN called it) at Virginia Tech. These poor kids lost their lives and their families didn't even know, yet the media scum found it more important to beg for coverage to line their pockets. It's a sad day in america.

Edited April 19, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[trinacriabob]

The trip to the post office thing has really added to the weirdness. Evidently, this person was quite disturbed and several English comp. profs spotted it through his writings and passed on the information. I think that the counseling area of VT should have taken this more seriously.

I was thinking about his family, too. Assuming they did the best they could in raising him and that his anger and isolation stemmed more from his interactions with peers and society, they are probably having a bad time right now as well. They went from being unknown private people to being in the spotlight and will suffer a lifetime of abuse and/or ostracism for it, as many families of criminals have had to endure.

I think we should keep them in our prayers as well. And, clearly, we should definitely pray for the victims and their families and friends....and I am saying this as someone who is far from being a "holy roller."

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Some more stuff off the wire at the Associated Press:

BLACKSBURG, Va. - Long before he boiled over, Virginia Tech gunman Cho Seung-Hui was picked on, pushed around and laughed at over his shyness and the strange way he talked when he was a schoolboy in suburban Washington, former classmates say.

Chris Davids, a Virginia Tech senior who graduated from Westfield High School in Chantilly, Va., with Cho in 2003, recalled that the South Korean immigrant almost never opened his mouth and would ignore attempts to strike up a conversation.

Once, in English class, the teacher had the students read aloud, and when it was Cho's turn, he just looked down in silence, Davids recalled. Finally, after the teacher threatened him with an F for participation, Cho started to read in a strange, deep voice that sounded "like he had something in his mouth," Davids said.

"As soon as he started reading, the whole class started laughing and pointing and saying, `Go back to China,'" Davids said.

Cho shot 32 people to death and committed suicide Monday in the deadliest one-man shooting rampage in modern U.S. history. The high school classmates' accounts add to the psychological portrait that is beginning to take shape, and could shed light on the video rant Cho mailed to NBC in the middle of his rampage at Virginia Tech.

In the often-incoherent video, the 23-year-old Cho portrays himself as persecuted and rants about rich kids.

"Your Mercedes wasn't enough, you brats," says Cho, who came to the U.S. at about age 8 in 1992 and whose parents work at a dry cleaners in suburban Washington. "Your golden necklaces weren't enough, you snobs. Your trust funds wasn't enough. Your vodka and cognac wasn't enough. All your debaucheries weren't enough. Those weren't enough to fulfill your hedonistic needs. You had everything."

Among the victims of the massacre were two other Westfield High graduates: Reema Samaha and Erin Peterson. Both young women graduated from the high school last year. Police said it is not clear whether Cho singled them out.

Stephanie Roberts, 22, a fellow member of Cho's graduating class at Westfield High, said she never witnessed anyone picking on Cho in high school.

"I just remember he was a shy kid who didn't really want to talk to anybody," she said. "I guess a lot of people felt like maybe there was a language barrier."

But she said friends of hers who went to middle school with Cho told her they recalled him getting picked on there.

"There were just some people who were really mean to him and they would push him down and laugh at him," Roberts said Wednesday. "He didn't speak English really well and they would really make fun of him."

Virginia Tech student Alison Heck said a suitemate of hers on campus - Christina Lilick - found a mysterious question mark scrawled on the dry erase board on her door. Lilick went to the same high school as Cho, according to Lilick's Facebook page. Cho once scrawled a question mark on the sign-in sheet on the first day of a literature class, and other students came to know him as "the question mark kid."

"I don't know if she knew that it was him for sure," Heck said. "I do remember that that fall that she was being stalked and she had mentioned the question mark. And there was a question mark on her door."

Heck added: "She just let us know about it just in case there was a strange person walking around our suite."

Lilick could not immediately be located for comment, via e-mail or telephone.

Regan Wilder, 21, who attended Virginia Tech, high school and middle school with Cho, said she was in several classes with Cho in high school, including advanced-placement calculus and Spanish. She said he walked around with his head down, and almost never spoke. And when he did, it was "a real low mutter, like a whisper."

As part of an exam in Spanish class, students had to answer questions in Spanish on tape, and other students were so curious to know what Cho sounded like that they waited eagerly for the teacher to play his recording, she said. She said that on the tape, he did not speak confidently but did seem to know Spanish.

Wilder recalled high school teachers trying to get him to participate, but "he would only shrug his shoulders or he'd give like two-word responses, and I think it just got to the point where teachers just gave up because they realized he wasn't going to come out of the shell he was in, so they just kind of passed him over for the most part as time went on."

She said she was sure Cho probably was picked on in middle school, but so was everyone else. And it didn't seem as if English was the problem for him, she said. If he didn't speak English well, there were several other Korean students he could have reached out to for friendship, but he didn't, she said.

Wilder said Cho wasn't any friendlier in college, where "he always had that same damn blank stare, like glare, on his face. And I'd always try to make eye contact with him because I recognized the kid because I'd seen him for six years, but he'd always just look right past you like you weren't there."

In other developments, Gov. Timothy Kaine is appointing a five- to seven-member panel to investigate the shootings, the governor's office said. The panel will review Cho's mental health history and how police responded to the tragedy. The panel will submit a report in two to three months.

University officials also announced that all of Cho's student victims would be awarded degrees posthumously, and that other students terrorized by the shootings might be allowed to end the semester immediately without consequences.

Eleven people hurt in the attack remained hospitalized, at least one in serious condition.

Authorities on Wednesday disclosed that more than a year before the massacre, Cho had been accused of sending unwanted messages to two women and was taken to a psychiatric hospital on a magistrate's orders and was pronounced a danger to himself. But he was released with orders to undergo outpatient treatment.

Also, Cho's twisted, violence-filled writings and menacing, uncommunicative demeanor had disturbed professors and students so much that he was removed from one English class and was repeatedly urged to get counseling.

On Wednesday, NBC received a package containing a rambling and often incoherent 23-page written statement from Cho, 28 video clips and 43 photos - many of them showing Cho, in a military-style vest and backward baseball cap, brandishing handguns. A Postal Service time stamp reads 9:01 a.m. - between the two attacks on campus.

The package helps explain one mystery: where the gunman was and what he did during that two-hour window between the first burst of gunfire, at a high-rise dorm, and the second attack, at a classroom building.

"You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today," a snarling Cho says on video. "But you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said Thursday that the material contained little they did not already know. Flaherty said he was disappointed that NBC decided to broadcast parts of it.

"I just hate that a lot of people not used to seeing that type of image had to see it," he said.

"I saw his picture on TV, and when I did I just got chills," said Kristy Venning, a junior from Franklin County, Va. "There's really no words. It shows he put so much thought into this and I think it's sick."

With a backlash developing against the media for airing the images, Fox News said it would stop running them, and other networks said they would severely limit their use.

"It has value as breaking news," said ABC News spokesman Jeffrey Schneider, "but then becomes practically pornographic as it is just repeated ad nauseam."

And BTW, as for the media trash in our society, I'm active on Facebook as well and had joined one of the many condolence grounps for VT. Not 2 hours after the shootings happened, representatives from CNN and Fox were on the page begging for footage or descriptions of the "carnage" (as CNN called it) at Virginia Tech. These poor kids lost their lives and their families didn't even know, yet the media scum found it more important to beg for coverage to line their pockets. It's a sad day in america.

"Why can't we just admit it?

We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'

Neither the brave nor bold will write us the story so

We won't give pause until the blood is flowin'"

[CARBIZ]

Look - most of us had $h!ty childhoods. Try growing up gay in the '70s, knowing you are different than everyone else? How about paying rent while your classmates are planning their prom plans? Oh, grow up!

Lots of people had sucky childhoods, but they don't go around killing people. I do think there is one difference in the past 25 years though: violence on TV, the violence on the internet and violence on computer games. The gun culture is whacked, and the products are everywhere.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

This guy just wanted attention IMO....

As for media and violence; does it have an effect? ABSOLUTELY! Now, when we say an effect, it isn't impled that the person watching the violence is going to go out and kill someone but it does have effects. For example, the 'bobo study' where children duplicated violent behavior they had witnessed. The main effects are desensitization though, once people see brutal murder so many times it makes them less repulsed by it because it temporarily disengages the brain in order to fuel adrenaline (Because most of this violence is protrayed in adrenaline fueled situations)

Our children know the difference between fantasy and reality, however the question is; do they know the difference between right and wrong?

And I agree about guns, it seems that pop culture is trying it's best to convey to kids these days that "carrying a gun is cool" and that being some hard nosed thug is the way to be. It's prevalent in the music, it's prevalent in the new wave of fashion that features weapons and it's prevalent in other forms of entertainment. Guns are easy to acquire as well. It's all about the "culture of fear" carefully cultivated by the media since 9/11 (IMO) I'm not anti-gun at all, but our society cannot afford to have these kids NOT taking guns seriously.

But, murder has largely declined (Except for the adolescent age group) in recent history, and people seem to be waking up to the reality of the trash we pass off as media in this country, so there is still hope.

Edited April 20, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[Guest YellowJacket894]

...For example, the 'bobo study' where children duplicated violent behavior they had witnessed. The main effects are desensitization though, once people see brutal murder so many times it makes them less repulsed by it because it temporarily disengages the brain in order to fuel adrenaline (Because most of this violence is portrayed in adrenaline fueled situations)

And again I'm reminded of a song ...

"Desensitized to everything.

What became of subtlety?"

[knightfan26917]

Look - most of us had $h!ty childhoods.

Not sure I'd use the term "$h!ty", but mine certainly wasn't a picnic. I was always teased/picked on ... the outcast, more or less.

*sighs*

In some ways, I still am.....

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