SHOULD GM (and Ford) MOVE OUT OF MICHIGAN

[regfootball]

Is Michigan relevant anymore to house a couple of the world's largest auto companies?

-Michigan is not supporting the automakers a whole bunch and they may get more support if they were in other states

-UAW influences are too prevalent in that part of the country. Moving could be a nice way to thumb their noses at the union bunch

-other carmakers are locating plants in the south, etc. where labor is more favorable

-perhaps a cultural hotbed like California or a more businesslike city like New York would be more appropriate for such global companies or closer to wall st.

-many Americans feel GM etc. are isolated in a state like Michigan and think of GM as a more global or national company if they had a presence elsewhere in the US

-it make make sense to move closer to more influential political centers

-they may attract more and better employees in other states that people want to live in more and have less industrial culture

-they might be able to become more connected in technology if they officed where the tech hotbeds are

-marketing and advertising centers are elsewhere

-the Detroit Lions stink

just some thoughts. Has being in Michigan become irrelevant, damaging, or otherwise a liability for the Ford and GM and lesser extent DCX?

Edited April 16, 2007 by regfootball

[pow]

It's not a bad idea. Becoming a "California company" really changes a lot of the stereotypes and baggage that US automakers have traditionally faced. Everyone's into locally-produced goods nowadays. Why don't they make (or appear to) certain vehicles, from sketch to production, in strategic regions? Each state can take pride in a specific car they make. Much like how Saturn is Tennesse's car and Corvette is Kentucky's car, hype up the Malibu to be "California's car."

[pow]

And I don't think US consumers resent US-made goods, but it's rather their specific aversion to Big 3 goods. Companies like Apple are thoroughly American, and they're innovative, fresh, loved...

[FAPTurbo]

It might remove the frumpy image that some people associate with Domestics, but I don't think it will change many peoples' opinions. If anything, the auto-rags will lampoon the move.

Plus, if they move to California, they'll have to try and look 'hip' ... I can't envision Bob Lutz and Rick Wagoner wearing turttle necks a la Steve Jobs.

[mustang84]

As much as the idea does sound somewhat appealing, Michigan would die if the Big Three were too leave...it would be the final nail in the coffin for the state's already terrible economy.

[hyperv6]

Do you realize how expensive it is to move to Califorinia? Taxes alone are not worth the price of admission.

Do you really think the Govenator will really do more to help them over Michigan?

Do you think the greenies from the San Fran area will be glad they have a shorter drive to protest?

Moving will solve little or nothing and if your moving make it some where other than California. Honda is in Ohio and Indiana.

The company I work for has a west coast facillitiy and we are Reno as we can cover the west coast but the taxes were less and the goverment in Nevada was more willing to help.

If you have to promote a west coast office for publicity just do a better job of promoting the design studio already there. That is about as much image your going to get anyway.

Edited April 16, 2007 by hyperv6

[Oracle of Delphi]

I wouldn't mind them moving GM's Headquarters to a nice warm Southern State like South Carolina or Alabama etc.

[capriceman]

Well thanks for that big F U!

You have no idea how much that would cripple michigan further. were already 4 billion in debt since the middle class isnt working over time so there goes all there tax money.

Besides they have a huge complex in arizona some where dont they? Like a 2nd head quarters.

Also GM is starting to hire people this week i heard of 10 people being hired by GM.

Also Why move? Is Michigan not local? Do you not see us on the Map? Well hopefully Canada can just finish teh buyout since we are there land fill even no they have millions of acres of land up there. Plus if canada bought us out i would have healthcare too.

[Windy-57]

I'm torn on this idea. There is no doubt that Michigan would be completely screwed if this happened, but since when is that GM or Ford's problem? They have enough problems of their own. Like a good business, the state should have diversified the types of companies it is home to.

California may be a good political move, but as mentioned, the cost of admission wouldn't be worth it. Also, a move like this would generate massive turnover and the company would need time to retrain employees and find qualified, experienced workers; not a bad idea if you feel like your company has grown stagnant and you want to shake things up or if you want to break a corrupt corporate culture (the way Ford is trying with Mulally.) The main benefit I see from a move like this would be to generate tax credits from other state governments.

I don't think a move like this will happen, but if it does, it wouldn't happen until after a new union agreement is reached. And another thing to consider is, who would buy the Ren Cen?

[AxelTheRed]

Is Michigan relevant anymore to house a couple of the world's largest auto companies?

-Michigan is not supporting the automakers a whole bunch and they may get more support if they were in other states

-UAW influences are too prevalent in that part of the country. Moving could be a nice way to thumb their noses at the union bunch

-other carmakers are locating plants in the south, etc. where labor is more favorable

-perhaps a cultural hotbed like California or a more businesslike city like New York would be more appropriate for such global companies or closer to wall st.

-many Americans feel GM etc. are isolated in a state like Michigan and think of GM as a more global or national company if they had a presence elsewhere in the US

-it make make sense to move closer to more influential political centers

-they may attract more and better employees in other states that people want to live in more and have less industrial culture

-they might be able to become more connected in technology if they officed where the tech hotbeds are

-marketing and advertising centers are elsewhere

-the Detroit Lions stink

just some thoughts. Has being in Michigan become irrelevant, damaging, or otherwise a liability for the Ford and GM and lesser extent DCX?

1. Michigan's government is helping a hell of a lot more than you think.

2. I belive unions are far more prevalent in New York.

3. The Big Three have plants in southern states, but that doesn't mean they should move their headquarters down there.

4. Detroit's America's 11th largest city, I can't really see any benefits from moving the Big Three to #1 or #2.

5. You're acting like American auto companies only build cars in Michigan. GM alone has plants in 30 states.

6. So should all big businesses move closer to political centers or just the automakers?

7. Are you saying that Michigan workers are somehow subpar compared to the rest of the United States?

8. They'd have to move their entire headquarters there? Not just build tech centers or something?

9. Yeah, a fine reason for moving, right there.

10. Duh, but we've still got the Red Wings and the Tigers.

Edited April 16, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[Oracle of Delphi]

Well GM does have to close it's plants in Michigan and only Michigan when Deer season opens up, because not enough workers show up to build cars.

[Robert Hall]

Well GM does have to close it's plants in Michigan and only Michigan when Deer season opens up, because not enough workers show up to build cars.

Seriously? That's lame..

[AxelTheRed]

Seriously? That's lame..

No, it doesn't happen. At least not where I live.

[CSpec]

I don't see how GM owes anything to any specific state. Moving should be dictated by profits, which is the only reason GM exists.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I think an expansion of GM headquarters in the United States wouldn't hurt at all. Keep the HQ in Michigan and build another HQ in California and have them both co-exist. Also, both sides of the U.S. would/could influence products and I think the result would be a little more interesting.

[aaaantoine]

GM should stay put, only because moving out of Michigan will take one of the state's only industries with it. And millions of people will suffer for it.

[hyperv6]

I think an expansion of GM headquarters in the United States wouldn't hurt at all. Keep the HQ in Michigan and build another HQ in California and have them both co-exist. Also, both sides of the U.S. would/could influence products and I think the result would be a little more interesting.

It is bad enough my companies head quarters is sperated by a Warehouse and in several buildings.

If you want GM to work together keep them together.

Lets face it the average buyer does not know or care where the headquarters are.

[capriceman]

Do you know how much it would cost to move? the tech center alone has to be a billion dollar operation. Its a huge complex to just move. who would buy the Renaissance Center too? Its Detroit's only known icon know and they have ad space right on it.

[LastMercury]

from 1998-2003 Lincoln-Mercury was headquartered in Irvine, CA

lot of good it did them

[JT64]

Ford should move its HQ to Seattle, so the great leader Alan Mulally can work from his home.

Seattle would also put Ford more in touch with 2007.

Mulally could also take an elite band of 100 engineers with him to his Seattle castle, and leave the peasants toiling in Michigan.

[Oracle of Delphi]

No, it doesn't happen. At least not where I live.

It did at Buick City before they knocked it down. I'm talking about assembly plants in Michigan, not SPO or Delco plants. It was so bad that GM made the 1st day of deer season a holiday in MI, because they could not get enough workers to come in.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[agman25]

2020 AD. GM headquarters Shanghai. Halliburton's moving. How long do you think before other's do. If assembly line jobs go to low cost countries how long do you think it is before CEO, CFO, COO jobs do.

[gm4life]

Moving them out of Michigan sounds good but really would hurt the state. So I say uhhh gee NO!

[A Horse With No Name]

One thing that no one is considering is that the cost of living is low in the midwest, freeways are much less crowded, you can actually get away from urban congestion, there are lots of good colleges here, We have halfway decent schools, a decent rail network, an existing base of suppliers and vendors, and the midwest does have some good teams (Colts anyone?).

I would like the idea of Ford and GM staying in Michigan. This is a great place to life and offers a high quality of living to those who live here.

Which is a nice benifit for those who work their asses of to build what we drive.

Chris

[regfootball]

2020 AD. GM headquarters Shanghai. Halliburton's moving. How long do you think before other's do. If assembly line jobs go to low cost countries how long do you think it is before CEO, CFO, COO jobs do.

depends where the hookers are. that, and no CFO's wife wants to live in China....EWE!!!!!

[stefanmueller]

Well thanks for that big F U!

You have no idea how much that would cripple michigan further. were already 4 billion in debt since the middle class isnt working over time so there goes all there tax money.

Besides they have a huge complex in arizona some where dont they? Like a 2nd head quarters.

Also GM is starting to hire people this week i heard of 10 people being hired by GM.

Also Why move? Is Michigan not local? Do you not see us on the Map? Well hopefully Canada can just finish teh buyout since we are there land fill even no they have millions of acres of land up there. Plus if canada bought us out i would have healthcare too.

I wouldn't get upset, its not going to happen. I don't know why you think changing the location would change anything. GM has a pretty increadible headquarters right now and even though Detroit isn't Americas biggest city or flashy california, Detroit is Auto City and something do be proud of. When I think of detroit I just think of detroit muscle and how sweet that to me thats the center of the car universe.

And We (in Ontario) sending you garbage was considered profitibale by your politicians and they let us do it. You may get Torontos garbage but we dispose of most of your toxic waste, which is wosre?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I say they move to China.... Forget america, they forgot about GM and Ford a LOOOONG time ago.

I'd love to see them move.

[stefanmueller]

Well setting up a massive headquarters in China which would be rosponsible fo rthe asia pacific region and toning down, although not to a large degree, their detroit operations seems like an amazing idea to me.

[The O.C.]

from 1998-2003 Lincoln-Mercury was headquartered in Irvine, CA

lot of good it did them

Coming from someone that lives 10 mins from the PAG headquarters in Irvine and knew a few people (including one high-ranking VP) that worked for Lincoln in that "headquarters".......the fault with that move not working was strictly Dearborn's.

The execs in Dearborn NEVER embraced the Lincoln team or their supposed role out in California.

The whole idea behind the move was to give the entire Lincoln team the opportunity to "live" the California "lifestyle" and to try to learn why people make car buying choices in this state like they do. The ultimate goal is that some of this will eventually rub off onto the culture of the company and the product itself. However, the new supposed "culture" was squashed by the Michigan execs and their ancient existing culture....and most of the innovative product ideas/suggestions/business development opportunities made it to Dearborn, but never to market.

Sure there's multiple sides to every story.....but all I ever heard from the team here in CA was that the whole move was never given the opportunity by Dearborn to bear true fruit.

[The O.C.]

It did at Buick City before they knocked it down. I'm talking about assembly plants in Michigan, not SPO or Delco plants. It was so bad that GM made the 1st day of deer season a holiday in MI, because they could not get enough workers to come in.

LOL I can attest to this.......witnessed it every year during my seven years in Flint/Detroit......

[The O.C.]

I wouldn't get upset, its not going to happen. I don't know why you think changing the location would change anything. GM has a pretty increadible headquarters right now and even though Detroit isn't Americas biggest city or flashy california, Detroit is Auto City and something do be proud of. When I think of detroit I just think of detroit muscle and how sweet that to me thats the center of the car universe.

And We (in Ontario) sending you garbage was considered profitibale by your politicians and they let us do it. You may get Torontos garbage but we dispose of most of your toxic waste, which is wosre?

I think the main point in this thread was the suggestion that perhaps getting away from Michigan and the midwest would help get GM and Ford out from under their cloud of isolation that they operate in.

It's the whole idea of Rick Wagoner "....looking out of his office window at the RenCen, seeing all those domestic and GM cars running around....and thinking that everything's hunky-dory...."

It's a big problem.

You can't compete with what you don't truly understand (why so many markets are becoming so predominently import-driven.)

Boeing made a similarly dramatic move a few years ago when they moved their (long-standing) headquarters from Seattle to Chicago.

Plenty of car nuts out in CA would argue (successfully I might add) against Detroit being the "center of the car universe" anyways.

[prototype66]

Seriously? That's lame..

your a little thick arent you? jk

Michigan is having enough trouble without you outside "policy experts" having all of these great solutions.

"Thanks!"

[Shantanu]

It's not a bad idea. Becoming a "California company" really changes a lot of the stereotypes and baggage that US automakers have traditionally faced. Everyone's into locally-produced goods nowadays. Why don't they make (or appear to) certain vehicles, from sketch to production, in strategic regions? Each state can take pride in a specific car they make. Much like how Saturn is Tennesse's car and Corvette is Kentucky's car, hype up the Malibu to be "California's car."

The difference between Michigan and California is that a middle class engineer or factory worker can actually afford a home in Michigan.

You should ask the folks over at Nissan about that.

[Shantanu]

Coming from someone that lives 10 mins from the PAG headquarters in Irvine and knew a few people (including one high-ranking VP) that worked for Lincoln in that "headquarters".......the fault with that move not working was strictly Dearborn's.

The execs in Dearborn NEVER embraced the Lincoln team or their supposed role out in California.

The whole idea behind the move was to give the entire Lincoln team the opportunity to "live" the California "lifestyle" and to try to learn why people make car buying choices in this state like they do. The ultimate goal is that some of this will eventually rub off onto the culture of the company and the product itself. However, the new supposed "culture" was squashed by the Michigan execs and their ancient existing culture....and most of the innovative product ideas/suggestions/business development opportunities made it to Dearborn, but never to market.

Sure there's multiple sides to every story.....but all I ever heard from the team here in CA was that the whole move was never given the opportunity by Dearborn to bear true fruit.

The whole PAG is a failure. Ford sunk tens of billions into companies that lost sales, lost prestige, and lost money.

Maybe it has something to do with the harebrained idea of running a group of European automakers on the other side of the world in Los Angeles?

[Shantanu]

One thing that no one is considering is that the cost of living is low in the midwest, freeways are much less crowded, you can actually get away from urban congestion, there are lots of good colleges here, We have halfway decent schools, a decent rail network, an existing base of suppliers and vendors, and the midwest does have some good teams (Colts anyone?).

I would like the idea of Ford and GM staying in Michigan. This is a great place to life and offers a high quality of living to those who live here.

Which is a nice benifit for those who work their asses of to build what we drive.

Chris

The biggest assett is that the automotive engineering talent (and not to mention the supply chains and a little thing called HISTORY) are centered around the Detroit area.

GM recently put out the word that they are recruiting 400 engineers. They instantaneously got 7,000 applications, most of them from experienced automotive engineers. Can you get that kind of response anywhere else? I doubt it.

[CARBIZ]

"It's the whole idea of Rick Wagoner "....looking out of his office window at the RenCen, seeing all those domestic and GM cars running around....and thinking that everything's hunky-dory...."

Ah, wasn't Wagoner the CFO of GM-South America for a few years? From what I've seen, the senior, senior management have a lot of "world experience," it's more the middle-management who may be a little myopic.

These are not stupid men and women, but I think they need to ditch the suit and go hang out in dealers around the country, both their own and the competition's. Forget the professionals that haunt focus groups and talk to the common man/woman out there.

[Chicagoland]

Should stay and fight.

OTOH: [this is sarcasm, so no fits of fury please]

Import nameplates sell, look at Hyundai. I have heard of many poeople picking them because they are one, even though they made crap before.

Ford can change name to "Volvo Motors", and GM can just say "GM China" since eventaully most of their sales will come form there! Then dealers can say "we are foreign too, so we have the 'quality' you expect"!