Saturn to get new Vectra Wagon for '09

[Flybrian]

Saturn expansion continues with Euro imports
Link to Original Article @ Motor Authority

General Motors in the US will once again call on its European cohort for its latest addition to the Saturn lineup. Starting from 2009, US customers will be able to sample the Vectra Caravan, which will be sold alongside its Saturn Aura sedan sibling. The first cars are scheduled to roll out of Opel’s Rüsselsheim plant in Germany in 2009 with an allotted 50,000 cars being shipped across the Atlantic.

The introduction is part of GM’s push to offer more fuel efficient cars in its lineup. Both the Aura and its new wagon cousin are important vehicles for Saturn and form the basis of the brand’s rejuvenation as a profitable label that can compete with other European imports.

Before the wagon arrives, Opel’s Astra hatch will hit showrooms in the US with the first orders shipping later this year. It doesn’t end there. Saturn execs are planning for the introduction of even more European designed models, with some cars, including the next-generation Opel Corsa, tipped to enter production in the US.

[Oracle of Delphi]

God I love how Opel is becoming more and more involved in the US and Saturn. I hope Opel becomes the brand of choice via Saturn in the North American market.

[Z-06]

CAFE CAFE CAFE

[Oracle of Delphi]

CAFE CAFE CAFE

Café Olé

[Intrepidation]

So...will it be called Aura or Vectra? I like the name Vectra myself.

[PurdueGuy]

So...will it be called Aura or Vectra? I like the name Vectra myself.

It's an interesting thought, too... if they just call the wagon "vectra", and the sedan "aura", then the wagon kinda has its own distinct-ness... I think I like wagon = vectra rather than wagon = aura wagon.

[Intrepidation]

It's an interesting thought, too... if they just call the wagon "vectra", and the sedan "aura", then the wagon kinda has its own distinct-ness... I think I like wagon = vectra rather than wagon = aura wagon.

Kinda like the Magnum and the Charger are their own vehicles.

[ocnblu]

I like what's happening at Saturn. They've been sort of an eco-weenie brand, historically. They can continue to fill that niche, but GM also needs to give Chevrolet, Pontiac and Buick some RWD cars for people who prefer something more American in character.

[thegriffon]

By '09 it won't be that wagon though, but the new one, which apparently won't be a Vectra even in Europe.

[Dragon]

bring it with a diesel!

[CARBIZ]

I love what GM is doing to Saturn, too, but mark my words: it is going to kill of Chevrolet in Canada. Unless there is some cool, fun to drive product in the wings (like as was seen at the NY Auto Show) from GM-DAT, Chevrolet is going to die here. The cool Opel stuff going to Saturn, the lambda to everybody else, no competitive minivan....the list of sins just goes on.

I opened the National Post today and saw a full two page center spread in full color of the new Hyundai Veracruz. I wanted to choke on my corn flakes. It is gorgeous, 7 seater and priced not much higher than the aging Equinox. I see a lot of grey-haired folks driving Hyundias and Kias up here. They are no longer a joke. Chevrolet is getting squeezed between the superior product over at P-B-GMC and soon to be Saturn.

Just my thoughts, in case anybody in Oshawa is awake.

[ZL-1]

By '09 it won't be that wagon though, but the new one, which apparently won't be a Vectra even in Europe.

Aha, it would be the new one then. That's what I was thinking. Maybe instead of Opel Insignia we'll get an Opel Aura?

[Intrepidation]

I opened the National Post today and saw a full two page center spread in full color of the new Hyundai Veracruz. I wanted to choke on my corn flakes. It is gorgeous, 7 seater...

Was that sarcasm? (Serious question...I don't find it attractive in the least, although the interior is very, very nice).

[CSpec]

The next Vectra and Aura are the same car, so they're just importing the wagon version from Europe because it doesn't make sense to build it here.

[97regalGS]

I love what GM is doing to Saturn, too, but mark my words: it is going to kill of Chevrolet in Canada. Unless there is some cool, fun to drive product in the wings (like as was seen at the NY Auto Show) from GM-DAT, Chevrolet is going to die here. The cool Opel stuff going to Saturn, the lambda to everybody else, no competitive minivan....the list of sins just goes on.

I opened the National Post today and saw a full two page center spread in full color of the new Hyundai Veracruz. I wanted to choke on my corn flakes. It is gorgeous, 7 seater and priced not much higher than the aging Equinox. I see a lot of grey-haired folks driving Hyundias and Kias up here. They are no longer a joke. Chevrolet is getting squeezed between the superior product over at P-B-GMC and soon to be Saturn.

Just my thoughts, in case anybody in Oshawa is awake.

saturn does not have a dealer network large enough to have a significant impact on chevy sales.

if i were you, i'd be scared to death of hyundai.

[Drew Dowdell]

I love what GM is doing to Saturn, too, but mark my words: it is going to kill of Chevrolet in Canada. Unless there is some cool, fun to drive product in the wings (like as was seen at the NY Auto Show) from GM-DAT, Chevrolet is going to die here. The cool Opel stuff going to Saturn, the lambda to everybody else, no competitive minivan....the list of sins just goes on.

I opened the National Post today and saw a full two page center spread in full color of the new Hyundai Veracruz. I wanted to choke on my corn flakes. It is gorgeous, 7 seater and priced not much higher than the aging Equinox. I see a lot of grey-haired folks driving Hyundias and Kias up here. They are no longer a joke. Chevrolet is getting squeezed between the superior product over at P-B-GMC and soon to be Saturn.

Just my thoughts, in case anybody in Oshawa is awake.

Don't fret. You'll be getting an MCE Cobalt soon, substantially superior Malibu, and a Lambda of your own.

[thegriffon]

The next Vectra and Aura are the same car, so they're just importing the wagon version from Europe because it doesn't make sense to build it here.

Possibly. The Aura could be the lwb version though. It will depend on whether GM thinks the new Opel is big enough to take on the Accord and Camry.

[Intrepidation]

saturn does not have a dealer network large enough to have a significant impact on chevy sales.

if i were you, i'd be scared to death of hyundai.

Considering the major gains Hyundai has made over the years, and how much their quality and designs have improved...they have nothing to be scared of.

[haypops]

Supposedly the Outlook isn't doing all that well at Saturn. The problem for it and the proposed "vectra Wagon" is just too few dealers?

The following is rather interesting post from another site:

For the past few years, there have been a rash of Saturn dealer closings on Long Island and throughout downstate New York.

At the start of this year, a region of nearly four million people had two dealers which to go to if they wished to buy or service their Saturn. There are a few Long Island-based Saturnfans, myself being one.

So it was with much surprise when I was driving along NY Route 25 just west of the (Smith Haven) mall and saw the Saturn sign and a newly constructed facility with new cars on the lot. I did a double take and nearly drove off the road!

the rest of the post and thread here

[caddycruiser]

Supposedly the Outlook isn't doing all that well at Saturn. The problem for it and the proposed "vectra Wagon" is just too few dealers?

The following is rather interesting post from another site:

the rest of the post and thread here

Actually, the Outlook is doing VERY well, but with the increased number of sales because of vehicles like it and also the Aura and Sky, people are now bringing up the relative lack of Saturn dealers in general that they can go to. There's still a lot of them in some places, but it just doesn't compare to, say, the typical Chevy dealer in others.

So, with this new popularity, I'm wondering how many more new Saturn places will be popping up. They don't need to hit overload, as the need for some exclusivity can actually be a great thing, but just enough so more people have greater ease in finding, buying, and servicing an exciting new Saturn.

[silverss/sc]

There will be some happy Saturn fans . I worked for Saturn for 4 years , and we sold a fair amount L-series wagons , and thats all those people wanted was the wagon . Im so happy the Opel connection is in full motion now

[bdubsee]

Sweet - the wagon will be available at about the same time that the lease on my Aura ends. I love the Aura but a sedan is not match for a wagon...I really miss the utility of my Malibu Maxx.

[CARBIZ]

Firstly, no I wasn't kidding about the Hyundai...I like it a lot. It looks like the next generation Equinox - except that it is a 7 seater. That is something that Chevrolet is sorely lacking.

I know most of you guys are American, but things are much different up here. Chevrolet is just another foreign nameplate. The Sierra outsells the Silverado (hell, even the Ram outsold the Silverado last year!), the Cobalt is not that far ahead of the G5, the Montana always outsold the Venture. The Vibe does remarkably well, considering how old it is. The strongest dealers in the Toronto area are P-B-GMC dealers. So the nameplate Chevrolet is getting squeezed between the Hyundai/Kia dealers below, and the P-B-GMC dealers above; the Saturn thing (although good for GM, IMO) is not good for Chevrolet.

Part of the reason that GM is getting killed in the large urban markets is because there is some type of dealer on every corner. Sure, in some hick town there may NOT be a Jaguar or Kia dealer, but there are plenty in the big city. It doesn't matter if Chevrolet has twice as many dealers as Saturn when you only have to drive 2 or 3 miles to get to a Saturn dealer.

I don't think with the Aura Saturn will be a threat to Chevrolet yet, but give the real Opel product to them and it will just be one more nail in the coffin - up here.

Remember, this is Canada where the #1 selling vehicle for years was the Caravan, not the F-150.

[vrazzhledazzle]

God I love how Opel is becoming more and more involved in the US and Saturn. I hope Opel becomes the brand of choice via Saturn in the North American market.

Yea, except I wish they were called Opels. I love the new saturns, but for some reason the name 'Saturn' sounds like something that shouldn't be the name of a car marquee.

Just don't name cars after planets. It's funny that the only two marques, Saturn and Mercury, are both going to become all Euro.

I still don't understand why discontinue Oldsmobile and move Saturn upmarket to its place. Saturn should've been a marque of small cars like the recently debuted Chevy Trax, Beat, and Groove that would kill Scion with hip design and lots of stuff for the money. I don't know if I'd ever buy a Euro near-luxury called a Saturn Aura. I mean, I love the car, but I would wait for the new Malibu.

Oldsmobile on the other hand would be better in my opinion for these Euro cars. OLDsmobile, OLD world....just kidding

But I'd still like to hear someone explain to me why Olds had to go only to have Saturn take its place with the kinds of cars, which I thought, Oldsmobile should have always had.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Yea, except I wish they were called Opels. I love the new saturns, but for some reason the name 'Saturn' sounds like something that shouldn't be the name of a car marquee.

Just don't name cars after planets. It's funny that the only two marques, Saturn and Mercury, are both going to become all Euro.

I still don't understand why discontinue Oldsmobile and move Saturn upmarket to its place. Saturn should've been a marque of small cars like the recently debuted Chevy Trax, Beat, and Groove that would kill Scion with hip design and lots of stuff for the money. I don't know if I'd ever buy a Euro near-luxury called a Saturn Aura. I mean, I love the car, but I would wait for the new Malibu.

Oldsmobile on the other hand would be better in my opinion for these Euro cars. OLDsmobile, OLD world....just kidding

But I'd still like to hear someone explain to me why Olds had to go only to have Saturn take its place with the kinds of cars, which I thought, Oldsmobile should have always had.

No one hated Saturn more than I. They came to Wilmington, took the GM sign down and put up the Saturn sign. They gutted the computer systems that GM used and at that time, tried to run an Assembly plant using Windows NT, I still laugh about that. It failed as expected. They told Wilmington assembly employees that even though Wilmington had been building cars for 50 years, they didn't know what they were doing. I still laugh about that too. I was in meetings with Saturn big wigs in Springhill where they actually thought they would transform GM into their own image. That was the 1st time I spoke up and told Saturn you will be assimilated by GM in the end, they all laughed and said that would never happen. But I saw signs, little ones at 1st and they became bigger as time went on, like a snowball rolling downhill, getting bigger and bigger. The 1st sign was that they moved Ralph Harding who was our plant manager to Springhill. GM then gave us Cynthia Trudell as our plant manager for a few years, soon she was being promoted to Vice President, and Chairman and President of Saturn Corporation, that's when I knew the assimilation had begun, the funny thing is, the same Saturn big wigs didn't notice it. That was a good thing, because by the time they did it was to late, Saturn had become just a shell within that shell, it was all GM, so much so, as of this date Springhill no longer builds Saturn vehicles, but GM vehicles, so assimilation is now complete!

Olds may be gone, but so is Saturn too really, all the old divisions are gone, It's really just GM selling different brands, playing a shell game as it were with the car brands and the consumer. All that's left now is to assimilate Holden and Opel and add them to the shell game too, that is underway, it's just a matter of time now. Resistance is futile, just ask Saturn.

Don't mourn for Olds, it's still there it's just called GM now. Notice all the cars and trucks have the GM Chicklet on them now? I wonder why?

Edited April 14, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[vrazzhledazzle]

No one hated Saturn more than I. They came to Wilmington, took the GM sign down and put up the Saturn sign. They gutted the computer systems that GM used and at that time, tried to run an Assembly plant using Windows NT, I still laugh about that. It failed as expected. They told Wilmington assembly employees that even though Wilmington had been building cars for 50 years, they didn't know what they were doing. I still laugh about that too. I was in meetings with Saturn big wigs in Springhill where they actually thought they would transform GM into their own image. That was the 1st time I spoke up and told Saturn you will be assimilated by GM in the end, they all laughed and said that would never happen. But I saw signs, little ones at 1st and they became bigger as time went on, like a snowball rolling downhill, getting bigger and bigger. The 1st sign was that they moved Ralph Harding who was our plant manager to Springhill. GM then gave us Cynthia Trudell as our plant manager for a few years, soon she was being promoted to Vice President, and Chairman and President of Saturn Corporation, that's when I knew the assimilation had begun, the funny thing is, the same Saturn big wigs didn't notice it. That was a good thing, because by the time they did it was to late, Saturn had become just a shell within that shell, it was all GM, so much so, as of this date Springhill no longer builds Saturn vehicles, but GM vehicles, so assimilation is now complete!

Olds may be gone, but so is Saturn too really, all the old divisions are gone, It's really just GM selling different brands, playing a shell game as it were with the car brands and the consumer. All that's left now is to assimilate Holden and Opel and add them to the shell game too, that is underway, it's just a matter of time now. Resistance is futile, just ask Saturn.

Don't mourn for Olds, it's still there it's just called GM now. Notice all the cars and trucks have the GM Chicklet on them now? I wonder why?

You seem to have a grudge against Saturn..?

Well, all I was saying was that Saturn and Olds (if it existed) are escentially the same thing: a division of GM. A division that spits out near-luxury cars that are budding heads with Buick, a division that doesn't have a place in the so called Gm ladder. With the euro Saturns, I think Saturn has earned the right to live, however, I think that division should've been Olds. The Euro cars do fit with the Different Kind of Car Company since european cars are unique in the NA market but I think Saturn should have been slotted below Chevy. So at this point, Saturn would be getting all three of those Chevy minicar concepts instead of Opels and Olds would be getting Astas, Vectracs, and Signums. We would have the Oldsmobile Aurora rather than the Saturn Aura.

Edited April 14, 2007 by vrazzhledazzle

[PurdueGuy]

I kinda wish Saturn had been kept small cars as well - something more like Scion, only not so... ummm... yeah...

[CARBIZ]

Does anybody in the "know" know if any of the big shots at the RenCen now were middle or senior management involved in the Saturn birth 20 years ago? Just wondering, because it seems that GM is stubbornly sticking to the Saturn brand when it seems that too many resources have been diverted toward what is, at best, a boutique brand. I just wonder if someone's early career was staked on the future success of Saturn and now that person or persons are too proud to admit defeat.

I mean, if GM can write down more than $2 billion and walk away from Fiat, why did they not axe Saturn a few years ago and pour the money into Oldsmobile, rather than spendng more billions making Olds go away.

Just wondering.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Does anybody in the "know" know if any of the big shots at the RenCen now were middle or senior management involved in the Saturn birth 20 years ago? Just wondering, because it seems that GM is stubbornly sticking to the Saturn brand when it seems that too many resources have been diverted toward what is, at best, a boutique brand. I just wonder if someone's early career was staked on the future success of Saturn and now that person or persons are too proud to admit defeat.

I mean, if GM can write down more than $2 billion and walk away from Fiat, why did they not axe Saturn a few years ago and pour the money into Oldsmobile, rather than spendng more billions making Olds go away.

Just wondering.

That was my point.

$3 billion (2 for Fiat, and 1 for Olds) was lost that could have been used in R&D. A lot more GM divisions could be looking like Saturn today if that money was used on GM's core brands (and maybe Saab) to improve them rather than wasting it like they did.

Edited April 14, 2007 by vrazzhledazzle

[Windy-57]

Does anybody in the "know" know if any of the big shots at the RenCen now were middle or senior management involved in the Saturn birth 20 years ago? Just wondering, because it seems that GM is stubbornly sticking to the Saturn brand when it seems that too many resources have been diverted toward what is, at best, a boutique brand. I just wonder if someone's early career was staked on the future success of Saturn and now that person or persons are too proud to admit defeat.

I mean, if GM can write down more than $2 billion and walk away from Fiat, why did they not axe Saturn a few years ago and pour the money into Oldsmobile, rather than spendng more billions making Olds go away.

Just wondering.

I'm not the insider you're looking for, but the reason they didn't axe Saturn was because they were a brand that had something no other GM brand had, great sales satisfaction. Their dealers operated in a different way and people who bought Saturns raved about the level of service they received; check the JD Power sales satisfaction scores and you'll see the Saturn name consistently at the top. The issue with Saturn was quality, again, check JD Power ratings and you'll see Saturn at the bottom of the quality ratings.

So the logic goes, it's easier to fix quality internally than sales satisfaction. Quality can be fixed at the plants which are controlled by GM, but sales satisfaction has to be fixed at each dealer, which GM doesn't outright control. Since Saturn already had great sales satisfaction, all GM needed to do was invest in getting them better products.

As for where the brand fits in the ladder, I'm a little hazy on that myself. I can understand if GM wants to do the Euro thing with Saturn, but then they need to have Euro-type vehicles that no other GM US brand (aside maybe Saab) has. One of which is the Vectra wagon. The question then is, what other Euro-type cars will be next?

And finally, give Saturn some time. These image changes don't happen overnight. General American doesn't know how good the Aura is or that the Astra is going to be a huge improvement over the Ion or that the Outlook is nice; the majority of people think that Saturn's cars have terrible quality. With the great new vehicles in place, Saturn's success now lies in the hands of the marketing department, and I like their new campaign: Like always, like never before.

Like always - We're still Saturn and we're going to treat you great and you'll love the experience of buying and owning one of our cars.

Like never before - We don't sell crappy econoboxes anymore, we have some of the nicest vehicles you can buy today.

[PurdueGuy]

Like never before - We don't sell innovative, lightweight, extremely efficient vehicles anymore, we have some nice, but heavy, run-of-the-mill vehicles.

fixed... :AH-HA_wink:

I don't dislike what they have today, but I'm no fan of every generation of vehicle getting heavier & heavier, and while I understand and agree with the badge engineering they're doing, it still takes something special away from the brand... Anyway, they're still nice vehicles, and Saturn sales will increase, because what they have now is more in line with what most people want. We'll have to see what they offer with the Astra, though, and how heavy it gets...

[AM6_Cutlass]

Cool... bring on the wagons!

[rueben44]

Does anybody in the "know" know if any of the big shots at the RenCen now were middle or senior management involved in the Saturn birth 20 years ago? Just wondering, because it seems that GM is stubbornly sticking to the Saturn brand when it seems that too many resources have been diverted toward what is, at best, a boutique brand. I just wonder if someone's early career was staked on the future success of Saturn and now that person or persons are too proud to admit defeat.

I mean, if GM can write down more than $2 billion and walk away from Fiat, why did they not axe Saturn a few years ago and pour the money into Oldsmobile, rather than spendng more billions making Olds go away.

Just wondering.

You guys keep forgetting that their are people who will never buy a Chevy, Olds (If they were made), or any GM brand that they remember from their childhood. Sorry but people are just not that open minded and you have to just realize that. Saturn is needed and GM realizes that. My Co-worker had a Saturn a few years ago and since has bought 3 Honda's. I say that because it is a shock to me that she bought a Saturn period but she did it because she did not realize it was GM. Now that she does she will not buy one again but you get the point.

At this point I wonder if they should have just killed Buick. Olds products when they were killed were better that what Buick has today in many ways. They should have grown them or turned some of them over to Buick restyled or something.

Edited April 15, 2007 by rueben44

[drew770]

Again, GM has lost its way with defining what a brand suppose to be. Saturn started off as a "Different" kind of car company and now thanks to Lutz, Saturn is a American Opel.

Did we need an American Opel? Could the Opel brand autos go to any GM brand other than Saturn?

Couldn't Saturn have offered super successful, small, fuel efficient, & fun to drive small cars?

All three triples could have been Saturns right along with the Sky, a Vibe like vehicle and a required Delta based offering.

But what we get is another confused brand with no clear way to standout enough from Chevy or Pontiac to clearly compete with VW or Honda.

Any if someway say that they are different because they are based on Opels and then how in the hell is that going to standout in America where 99% of the folks don't know who Opel is?

[CARBIZ]

This business tends to be cyclical, and I think in terms of product and PERCEIVED quality, GM has gotten religion. The public in general is very fickle. There are enough cracks in Toyota's armour, that IMO Toyota's seemingly inexorable ascent in market share will halt. Athough I do agree there is an entire generation of people who hate Detroit for the '80s and a further generation growing up now on their parents Hondas, the pendulum can easily swing back, as long as GM doesn't seriously make any more screw ups!

The obvious truth is that at 20-22% market share (where GM will settle out, IMO), there is no way GM needs this many brands. The lacklustre performance of the Aura is proving this. I know this is a HUGE can of worms on C&G, but GM really only needs Chevrolet, Buick and Cadillac. This entire Hummer, Saab and Saturn thing is only draining funds away from the brands that make sense. Chevrolet is sold around the world. GM has already committed Buick to China, which has the potential to become a more important market for GM than the U.S. itself and Cadillac is recognized around the world - so where do Saab, Hummer, Pontiac and Saturn fit into this new reality?

The Torrent should have been a refreshed Equinox. Why would GM progress through the '04 Malibu to G6 to Aura, to '08 Malibu? Wouldn't 2 spectacular models have been better than 4 weaker attempts? The point has been made that Toyota spent $100 million on the launch of the new Camry. What is GM's budget for the Aura? Or Acadia?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I didn't think this would count with CAFE.

Doesn't the car have to manufactured here for it to help GMs numbers?

[Robert Hall]

I didn't think this would count with CAFE.

Doesn't the car have to manufactured here for it to help GMs numbers?

I wouldn't think so...doesn't the Aveo count for GM? Or the cars Toyota builds outside the US count for them, etc?

[thegriffon]

From the NHTSA:

"A manufacturer’s CAFE is the fleet wide average fuel economy. Separate CAFE calculations are made for up to three potential fleets: domestic passenger cars, imported passenger cars and light trucks. …

… Credits cannot be passed between manufacturers or between fleets, e.g., from domestic passenger cars to light trucks. …

… There is a statutory “two-fleet rule” for passenger cars. Manufacturers’ domestic and import fleets must separately meet the 27.5 mpg CAFE standard. For passenger cars, a vehicle, irrespective of who makes it, is considered as part of the “domestic fleet” if 75% or more of the cost of the content is either U.S. or Canadian/Mexican in origin. If not, it is considered an import. …

… The two-fleet rule was instituted largely at the request of the United Auto Workers to prevent Big 3 companies from simply importing more fuel efficient captive import vehicles to offset the poor fuel economy of their domestically produced models, and therefore keep production of highly fuel-efficient vehicles and the associated jobs here in the U.S. [And hasn't that worked out well—they may simply lose both]. It should be noted that, unlike with light trucks, the agency does not have the statutory authority to eliminate the two-fleet rule for passenger cars."

[LosAngeles]

You seem to have a grudge against Saturn..?

Well, all I was saying was that Saturn and Olds (if it existed) are escentially the same thing: a division of GM. A division that spits out near-luxury cars that are budding heads with Buick, a division that doesn't have a place in the so called Gm ladder. With the euro Saturns, I think Saturn has earned the right to live, however, I think that division should've been Olds. The Euro cars do fit with the Different Kind of Car Company since european cars are unique in the NA market but I think Saturn should have been slotted below Chevy. So at this point, Saturn would be getting all three of those Chevy minicar concepts instead of Opels and Olds would be getting Astas, Vectracs, and Signums. We would have the Oldsmobile Aurora rather than the Saturn Aura.

To me, the harbinger of things to come was how the original Saturn SL looked like a compact Cutlass Supreme. Even the second one arguably looked like an Intrigue.

They should have (done what was rumored and) merged the two brands under one badge in the first place and saved the later heartache, when it's obvious that that is essentially what happened.

Outlook = Bravada

Aura = Alero, Calais, Cutlass Ciera, et al.

Saturns even have this "metallic creaminess" that reminds me of Olds.

[thegriffon]

The obvious truth is that at 20-22% market share (where GM will settle out, IMO), there is no way GM needs this many brands.

Unfortunately with fewer brands, GM will merely have even less market share, and the same problem of too many brands for the remaining market share, and not enough revenue for adequate marketing. Eventually you get to the point where there is just one brand, and not enough market share for even that.

[CARBIZ]

Yeah, that seems to be hurting Toyota a lot. And GM in Brazil. And GM in China. One or two brands really sucks. (Sarcasm intended.)

[2QuickZ's]

I agree. GM has way too many brands for their current market share to justify. The problem is, it cost's them way too much money to discontinue a brand. Closing out Oldsmobile proved that. That could be part of the reason why they are combining Buick/Pontiac/GMC dealerships. It wouldn't be that difficult to shutdown Buick if their were no longer any stand alone stores.

[thegriffon]

Yeah, that seems to be hurting Toyota a lot. And GM in Brazil. And GM in China. One or two brands really sucks. (Sarcasm intended.)

GM in China has several brands—Saab, Cadillac, Buick, Chevrolet, Wuling and Opel.

The reasoning is flawed because it assumes GM will not simply lose further market share by cutting brands and vehicles. The real problem is one of reveue per vehicle, not too many brands. The brands people want to cut are still higher volume lineups than many newer entires, and no-one suggests they cannot be supported by current market share. Are middle line brands irrelevant? Yes, but GM doesn't have middle-line brands in the old sense. Saturn, Pontiac and Buick are pitched at the heart of the market (in fact a little below Toyota, Honda and Nissan). Chevrolet, Ford etc. are bargain brands, cheaper than even Hyundai and Kia. For GM this is acceptable, Chevrolet being positioned globally as GM's as a more affordable option, but not every GM brand can be the "affordable alternative". GM needs to raise prices of its so-called midline models to at least match Toyota in order to stay in business. Hence fewer fleet specials, and the much more expensive Vue.

Edited May 7, 2007 by thegriffon