Toyota Tundra Protest at NYIAS

[mustang84]

http://www.gothamist.com/2007/04/04/a_climate_chang.php

[Intrepidation]

Not so green are ya Toyota?

[big blue]

Finally people are noticing Toyota's hypocrisy. Look every company technically is hypocritical of itself concerning this matter including GM, Honda etc.,but Toyota always got a free pass on this issue until now. I hope more people will recognize this and see that Toyota isn't perfect and its just a car manufacturer out to make money like the rest of them. Not out there trying to save the world or anything.

Honda actually has a really good reputation for environmental awareness, but I'm not sure their new V10 will be causing similar reactions since the next gen NSX is a low volume car vs the Tundra's high volume.

As for GM, they will hopefully capitalize on the Volt some day and show that Toyota isn't the only hybrid maker around, they just got their Prius out at the right time vs. everyone else.

Not so green are ya Toyota?

They might be green in the face right now after seeing this happening. Edited April 5, 2007 by big blue

[Paolino]

Wow... was wondering if this was going to happen (not the autoshow event, just if someone was going to protest the Tundra).

[Camino LS6]

No free ride on this one, Toyota!

[bowtie_dude]

Wow...Never thought I'd see the day the enviro-freaks would point out Toyota's hypocrisy in its green image.

[siegen]

Niiice! I hope the banner got lots of attention.

Gotta love Toyota:

At Toyota, we operate under a global earth charter that promotes environmental responsibility throughout our entire company. We are leading the way in lowering emissions and improving fuel economy in gasoline powered vehicles. - source

I don't seem to recall any fuel economy improving advancements in their new Tundra. Or maybe they were only concerned with having the most horsepower?

Tundra 4.0L V6 2WD 17/20

Sierra 4.3L V6 2WD 17/21

Tundra 4.7L V8 2WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 5.3L V8 2WD 16/22 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 6.0L V8 2WD 15/19

Tundra 4.7L V8 4WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 4WD 15/19

Sierra 5.3L V8 4WD 16/20 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 4WD 14/18

Sierra 6.0L V8 4WD 15/19

As for GM, they will hopefully capitalize on the Volt some day and show that Toyota isn't the only hybrid maker around, they just got their Prius out at the right time vs. everyone else.

They might be green in the face right now after seeing this happening.

I can't wait for the new EPA ratings. Currently the Prius is rated to 60 mpg city, which is quite impressive. How could the average consumer, who is ignorant and is accustomed to 30mpg city, not get hooked by that? Once the Prius gets its new rating, of 48mpg or so, it should level the playing field some.

[aaaantoine]

That's some gooood sauce.

Maybe I should go to the auto show...

[Delta Force79]

[aaaantoine]

Their press release, by the way.

[Hudson]

I like how the typically conservative nature of the posts on this site turn left-wing when it helps their cause.

Toyota pollutes with 100,000 full-sized pickups a year while Ford and GM each do it with a million. Yet, Toyota's the one to protest? Toyota sells 120,000 low-emission hybrids a year while Ford sells about 10,000 and GM has none (no real hybrids, anyway)...and yet Toyota's the one to protest.

I don't have a problem when GM is the one being wronged and you guys complain...I even try to give the benefit of doubt when the point isn't so obvious. But if Toyota's getting bashed for no good reason, you guys should be just as upset (okay, slightly less) than if it happened to GM. If it's Toyota today, why won't it be GM or Ford or anyone else tomorrow?

[bowtie_dude]

I like how the typically conservative nature of the posts on this site turn left-wing when it helps their cause.

Toyota pollutes with 100,000 full-sized pickups a year while Ford and GM each do it with a million. Yet, Toyota's the one to protest? Toyota sells 120,000 low-emission hybrids a year while Ford sells about 10,000 and GM has none (no real hybrids, anyway)...and yet Toyota's the one to protest.

I don't have a problem when GM is the one being wronged and you guys complain...I even try to give the benefit of doubt when the point isn't so obvious. But if Toyota's getting bashed for no good reason, you guys should be just as upset (okay, slightly less) than if it happened to GM. If it's Toyota today, why won't it be GM or Ford or anyone else tomorrow?

GM and Ford don't try and sell a green, eco-friendly image while producing 1 million+ pickups, though, do they?

[CARBIZ]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH do we HAVE to go down this tired road again? Do YOU not remember the New York Times declaring that General Motors is criminal because of its "addiction" to trucks? The media HAS given Toyota a free ride, even though they (justifiably) will sell every damned one of their big, gas guzzling SUVs and pick ups.

Just becausse a bunch of idiots buy the Prius and the media goes along for the ride does not make Toyota automatically greener than GM - only greener in the eyes of select media.

This debate is tired, Hudson. I guarantee you won't see the pics above on any of the major news services. That is the point. If it was GM being tarred and feathered it would be front page news.

Oh, yeah, and just to finish off this tired argument..........GM hybrid buses.

[FAPTurbo]

Every brand is more or less hypocritical when it comes to being green. It's just that Toyota has gotten one hell of a free pass because George Clooney and Al Gore drive Prius'. At the Toyota display at the auto show in my parts, the Prius was conveniently situated on the opposite side of the big Tundra display, and it was being ogled by plenty of people. Meanwhile, the Jetta diesel which was next door was sitting all by itself.

(Of course, GM did something similar when showing off the hybrid Aura.)

I had some fun at the Toyota display with the Prius when the rep saw me inside it, and she mentioned that this "is the greenest, and most fuel efficient sedan in North America."

"That's all well and good Ma'am, but I want that bad-ass with the V8 on the display past the Avalon"

[Drew Dowdell]

I like how the typically conservative nature of the posts on this site turn left-wing when it helps their cause.

Toyota pollutes with 100,000 full-sized pickups a year while Ford and GM each do it with a million. Yet, Toyota's the one to protest? Toyota sells 120,000 low-emission hybrids a year while Ford sells about 10,000 and GM has none (no real hybrids, anyway)...and yet Toyota's the one to protest.

I don't have a problem when GM is the one being wronged and you guys complain...I even try to give the benefit of doubt when the point isn't so obvious. But if Toyota's getting bashed for no good reason, you guys should be just as upset (okay, slightly less) than if it happened to GM. If it's Toyota today, why won't it be GM or Ford or anyone else tomorrow?

GM Hybrid buses do more to help the environment than all the priuses sold ever.

[siegen]

Toyota pollutes with 100,000 full-sized pickups a year while Ford and GM each do it with a million. Yet, Toyota's the one to protest?

Yes!

Why? Because Toyota is the one who says: "we operate under a global earth charter that promotes environmental responsibility throughout our entire company"

Expanding into a crowded full size truck segment, for the sole benefit of increasing market share and profits, is not being environmentally responsible. Toyota didn't join the full size truck market to show GM, Ford, Dodge, and Nissan that they can build a truck that can do everything theirs can but be more environmentally friendly at the same time. No, they joined it so they can become number 1.

[Flybrian]

Toyota rides the environmental train unlike any other. They should be held accountable to a higher standard. Period.

[AxelTheRed]

Finally! Toyota finally stepped on their own dick.

Thanks to the Tundra, Toyota can't hide behind the Prius, point at the fuel economy and yell "See?!" anymore.

And is it just me or has there been increasing amounts of anti-Toyota sentiment lurking around lately?

Edited April 5, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[haypops]

I read Hudson's post differently then most of you did. He was pointing out how much of everyones complaints about well intentioned people who are concerned about the environment (greenies) have been ugly and unfair. It should be a little more obvious now because "the enemy of my enemy is my Friend".

[gm4life]

Toyota has finally shot themself in the foot or as haypops put it "stepped on their dick!" which gave me a laugh.

[Z-06]

Toy's ambitious Tundra may be their Deathbed.

At least when GM or Ford make their pickups they were not calling themselves green.

Toy whored itself to death by calling it green with its Prius.

Now face the music.

[haypops]

Toyota has finally shot themself in the foot or as haypops put it "stepped on their dick!" which gave me a laugh.

I think that that was "axelTheRed", but i will take whatever laughter I can get.

[regfootball]

Finally! Toyota finally stepped on their own LABIA.

Thanks to the Tundra, Toyota can't hide behind the Prius, point at the fuel economy and yell "See?!" anymore.

And is it just me or has there been increasing amounts of anti-Toyota sentiment lurking around lately?

*edited for correctness*

why toyota is wrong here. they redesigned this truck to be bigger and heavier and drink more fuel, in the quest to double their market share. i.e. deliberately reducing their fuel economy average in the quest of sales. i.e. not caring about fuel consumption.

GM tries to maintain their market share and serve an existing need and market despite competition increases, yet improves their mileage and has flex fuel...i.e improvement

Toyota purposely degrades their mpg. GM tries to improve.

HMMMMM

good thing none of those oinkers with a sloppy "T" on the grille didn't ram head first into a concrete wall by accident in the arena. that 4 star front impact rated 'beast' might have injured someone. They ought to fully box the pig's bones next time.

did anyone confirm for me yet if toyota is really stupid enough to use belts to drive the cams in their new turdra? i'd like to know. if they did, for that reason alone, you'd be a fool to buy a toyota oinker.

i hear toyota signed a deal with a hollywood studio to make a sequel to a really successful film from a few years ago.

TOTAL RECALL 2: RETURN OF THE TUNDRAS.....cause that might be on the horizon (recalls) based on the last couple years...........

Edited April 6, 2007 by regfootball

[BuddyP]

I like how the typically conservative nature of the posts on this site turn left-wing when it helps their cause.

Toyota pollutes with 100,000 full-sized pickups a year while Ford and GM each do it with a million. Yet, Toyota's the one to protest? Toyota sells 120,000 low-emission hybrids a year while Ford sells about 10,000 and GM has none (no real hybrids, anyway)...and yet Toyota's the one to protest.

I don't have a problem when GM is the one being wronged and you guys complain...I even try to give the benefit of doubt when the point isn't so obvious. But if Toyota's getting bashed for no good reason, you guys should be just as upset (okay, slightly less) than if it happened to GM. If it's Toyota today, why won't it be GM or Ford or anyone else tomorrow?

Toyota wants 200k on the road this year, GM will put out 900k at the most. GM's trucks are E85 compliant, in other words if all the GM trucks ran E85 they'd be using the same amount of gas that 135k trucks running straight gas would use. Hence, 900k trucks using less petroleum than 200k Toyota's.

Yeah I know most consumers won't run E85, but that's the consumers fault, not GM's... and yes a good portion is Deisels but they can run Biodeisel, plus Deisels get better gas milage than the gas motors anyway (in which Toyota produces none).

Yeah, it's a numbers game and I'm playing it too.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I think the moon is finally turning red for Toyota.

[biff]

did anyone confirm for me yet if toyota is really stupid enough to use belts to drive the cams in their new turdra? i'd like to know. if they did, for that reason alone, you'd be a fool to buy a toyota oinker.

I have a magazine that has a Tundra ad in it. The ad has a cut away view of the engine and it has timing belts to two intake cams. Exhaust is driven from the intake cams. I wouldn't think that's a good move for bulletproof reliability.

[gm4life]

I think that that was "axelTheRed", but i will take whatever laughter I can get.

Sorry haypops, Toyota can't even have it all. Good for them for calling them on it.

[Silverado03]

Lets talk about mpg. My 2003 Silverado Ext Cab 4x4 5.3L, 22.3 mpg highway at 65mph. My friends 2006 Tundra Ext Cab 4x4 with a 4.7L V8 18mpg highway.

And yes my mpg are for real, drive 33 miles one way to work and did the average over 10 days of driving.

Niiice! I hope the banner got lots of attention.

Gotta love Toyota:

I don't seem to recall any fuel economy improving advancements in their new Tundra. Or maybe they were only concerned with having the most horsepower?

Tundra 4.0L V6 2WD 17/20

Sierra 4.3L V6 2WD 17/21

Tundra 4.7L V8 2WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 5.3L V8 2WD 16/22 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 6.0L V8 2WD 15/19

Tundra 4.7L V8 4WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 4WD 15/19

Sierra 5.3L V8 4WD 16/20 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 4WD 14/18

Sierra 6.0L V8 4WD 15/19

I can't wait for the new EPA ratings. Currently the Prius is rated to 60 mpg city, which is quite impressive. How could the average consumer, who is ignorant and is accustomed to 30mpg city, not get hooked by that? Once the Prius gets its new rating, of 48mpg or so, it should level the playing field some.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

OHHHHHHHHHHHH do we HAVE to go down this tired road again? Do YOU not remember the New York Times declaring that General Motors is criminal because of its "addiction" to trucks? The media HAS given Toyota a free ride, even though they (justifiably) will sell every damned one of their big, gas guzzling SUVs and pick ups.

Just becausse a bunch of idiots buy the Prius and the media goes along for the ride does not make Toyota automatically greener than GM - only greener in the eyes of select media.

This debate is tired, Hudson. I guarantee you won't see the pics above on any of the major news services. That is the point. If it was GM being tarred and feathered it would be front page news.

Oh, yeah, and just to finish off this tired argument..........GM hybrid buses.

+1....

I think the "Insiders" are obligated to come to the rescue for Toyota though... It's what they're hired to do.

[regfootball]

I have a magazine that has a Tundra ad in it. The ad has a cut away view of the engine and it has timing belts to two intake cams. Exhaust is driven from the intake cams. I wouldn't think that's a good move for bulletproof reliability.

thanks, I'm not the only one who saw that, then. I can't believe they would do something so stupid as to show timing belts for overhead cam motors in an ad. that's incredibly dumb. tell a farmer he's gotta change that thing at 60k miles.

he's laugh his ass off and mutter some slurs and opinions about how dumb of a design that is for a work vehicle.

= that's one market segment they won't be tapping in to.

You know, I should hold my mouth until I find out whether Ford has chain driven cams or belt driven ones on their OHC's.

searching a bit more, it seems most if not all toyota's 'trucks' have timing belts.

of course now that the new tundra is real man sized it will see more abuse and that is why i wonder if this will hold up. To top it off, I see that the earlier v8 tundras are 'interference' engines to boot.

Edited April 10, 2007 by regfootball

[grandmarquis]

You know, I should hold my mouth until I find out whether Ford has chain driven cams or belt driven ones on their OHC's.

searching a bit more, it seems most if not all toyota's 'trucks' have timing belts.

ford's ohc V8's have always been chain driven. and i've seen quite a few with over 300k that have never been apart. timing belts on a V8? WTF?!?!?

[haypops]

tell a farmer he's gotta change that thing at 60k miles.

I believe the replacement interval for timing belts on most engines is 90,000 or more these days. I also prefer not to be bothered with a belt.

Just checked and according to the Toyota web site:

Initial inspection at 60,000 miles/72 months. Inspect every 15,000 miles/18 months thereafter

replacement is required at 90,000 miles

Edited April 10, 2007 by haypops

[regfootball]

i had a belt jump on my chevette many years ago.

to do it with a truck while pulling a trailer would be beyond hilarious, except if it happened to you.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Toyota has finally shot themself in the foot or as haypops put it "stepped on their dick!" which gave me a laugh.

WOW, that must really hurt.

[SS427]

I read Hudson's post differently then most of you did. He was pointing out how much of everyones complaints about well intentioned people who are concerned about the environment (greenies) have been ugly and unfair. It should be a little more obvious now because "the enemy of my enemy is my Friend".

Uh, What?!?

Edited April 24, 2007 by SS427

[prinzSD]

thanks, I'm not the only one who saw that, then. I can't believe they would do something so stupid as to show timing belts for overhead cam motors in an ad. that's incredibly dumb. tell a farmer he's gotta change that thing at 60k miles.

he's laugh his ass off and mutter some slurs and opinions about how dumb of a design that is for a work vehicle.

= that's one market segment they won't be tapping in to.

You know, I should hold my mouth until I find out whether Ford has chain driven cams or belt driven ones on their OHC's.

searching a bit more, it seems most if not all toyota's 'trucks' have timing belts.

of course now that the new tundra is real man sized it will see more abuse and that is why i wonder if this will hold up. To top it off, I see that the earlier v8 tundras are 'interference' engines to boot.

But how many farmers would know about that (timing belt) and still buy the truck not expecting to change the timing belt and then getting the shock at 60,000 miles. Buy that time it would be too late and Toyota would still have sold another Tundra.

[Hudson]

Toyota wants 200k on the road this year, GM will put out 900k at the most. GM's trucks are E85 compliant, in other words if all the GM trucks ran E85 they'd be using the same amount of gas that 135k trucks running straight gas would use. Hence, 900k trucks using less petroleum than 200k Toyota's.

Yeah I know most consumers won't run E85, but that's the consumers fault, not GM's... and yes a good portion is Deisels but they can run Biodeisel, plus Deisels get better gas milage than the gas motors anyway (in which Toyota produces none).

Yeah, it's a numbers game and I'm playing it too.

Toyota sells about as many Priuses in the US as they do Tundras. GM touts being "yellow" and yet the tiniest fraction of their E85 vehicles will even see an E85 pump this year...and they are planning on producing 1 million full-sized pickups this year. Ford has hybrid Escapes and touts their "green" image as often as they can, but they too will produce about a million full-sized pickups compared to Toyota's desire to produce 200,000.

If Toyota reaches their goals for 2007, Tundras will be outsold by gasoline-powered GM full-sized pickups by a greater than 3-to-1 margin. Ford will do the same. And Toyota, a company with fewer US sales in the US than Ford or GM, will sell more hybrid Priuses than all other companies will sell of their various hybrids, combined.

You guys still have yet to convice me that Toyota deserves being bashed on their "green" stance....and that GM and Ford do not deserve ATLEAST the same.

Edited April 25, 2007 by Hudson

[haypops]

Uh, What?!?

"the enemy of my enemy is my Friend

many here consider greeniacs the enemy. Now that they are the enemy of Toyota (many posters other enemy) they become the friend.

[The O.C.]

Niiice! I hope the banner got lots of attention.

Gotta love Toyota:

I don't seem to recall any fuel economy improving advancements in their new Tundra. Or maybe they were only concerned with having the most horsepower?

Tundra 4.0L V6 2WD 17/20

Sierra 4.3L V6 2WD 17/21

Tundra 4.7L V8 2WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 5.3L V8 2WD 16/22 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 2WD 16/20

Sierra 6.0L V8 2WD 15/19

Tundra 4.7L V8 4WD 15/18

Sierra 4.8L V8 4WD 15/19

Sierra 5.3L V8 4WD 16/20 (Active Fuel Management)

Tundra 5.7L V8 4WD 14/18

Sierra 6.0L V8 4WD 15/19

I can't wait for the new EPA ratings. Currently the Prius is rated to 60 mpg city, which is quite impressive. How could the average consumer, who is ignorant and is accustomed to 30mpg city, not get hooked by that? Once the Prius gets its new rating, of 48mpg or so, it should level the playing field some.

I believe Tundra's ratings ARE the new, lower '08 ratings. Isn't the truck listed as an '08 model?

What will happen to GM's '08 ratings?

[Flybrian]

I believe Tundra's ratings ARE the new, lower '08 ratings. Isn't the truck listed as an '08 model?

Seriously??

[FAPTurbo]

That little 'Hybrid Synergy' emblem has become the embodiment of almost everything I find wrong with automobiles today...

Apparently, my face gets red when I see it...

[toyoguy]

But how many farmers would know about that (timing belt) and still buy the truck not expecting to change the timing belt and then getting the shock at 60,000 miles. Buy that time it would be too late and Toyota would still have sold another Tundra.

no belt on the 5.7L

[FloydHendershot]

Where is the Tundra Hybrid?

[aaaantoine]

That little 'Hybrid Synergy' emblem has become the embodiment of almost everything I find wrong with automobiles today...

Apparently, my face gets red when I see it...

Of all the things I dislike about Toyotas, I actually like their Hybrid emblem. GM's, by comparison, looks silly.

[haypops]

...

Apparently, my face gets red when I see it...

Perhaps it's too many Niacin supplements?