NYIAS: Chevy Trax, Beat and Groove

[Sixty8panther]

These things are AWSOME!

I love all three. Seriously.

They are by far more original & interesting looking than the

entire Scion, Honda & Kia lineups and yet they borrow some

of gthe better ideas from the Scions.

SWithout any amount of bias I can honestly say these are

the three best lookking city cars ever, with the possible

exception of the 1959 Mini.

The Trax is the coolest by far but the Groove and Beat are

very stylish and handsome for city cars. Seriously, these

things are freekin' neat. Original b ut crisp styling and the

interiors took a cue from the Camaro concept. I like 'em.

Edited April 5, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[Petra]

I voted for the Beat... neat little car, kind of reminds me of the late, great Honda CRX. Stick the Cobalt SS motor in it and watch it go!

However, the styling is all Pontiac, IMO. It reminds me of their concepts from the late '90's - early '00's, like the Piranha and the Rageous.

The Trax was a close 2nd for me. It presents an interesting take on the "Mini-me SUV" style, but the Beat's styling was more provocative and I didn't really dig the Brown on Copper body mouldings... too many bad memories of the Aztek.

The Groove was a distant 3rd. Sorry, but it brings nothing new to the table, and I guarantee that buyers would dismiss it as GM trying to cash in on the xB's success. Also, the front end reminds me of the bland/hideous Chevrolet Uplander, a vehicle which should never be imitated in any way, shape or form.

[thegriffon]

At latest count (162,759 votes), the Groove is creeping toward 50%.

Groove 44.6%

Beat 34.2%

Trax 21.3%

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

All three are interesting and great, welcome concepts-I voted for the Groove, with Beat a strong second favorite, and the just-a-tad-too-boxy (but still well-thought-out) Trax in 3rd place for me. Anyone notice how the Beat looks suspiciously like the recent Opel Agila/Suzuki Wagon R spy shots? Hmmm....

[drew770]

I like all three (3) concepts but I don't think GM has the will nor marketing brains to build one of these cars. Right now GM is pretty close to profitablity and there is not real rush to push into the minicar market.

Yes, Scions and the Mini Cooper are super sucessful but GM can't seem to get past the views of big trucks and suvs. We can see an example of this by looking at GM's poor attempt at the subcompact market with the Aveo. The Aveo was the best selling subcompact in America. Knowing that the Fit, Yaris and the Versa was coming what does GM do. Half a$$ the redesign of the Aveo and the hatchback version is no where to be found.

Sorry to be so negative but GM of late has not been hitting on all cylinders and even Lutz is playing down the idea of an American minicar.

[Camino LS6]

Tiny cars just don't play well in the American market beyond short phases of oil panic. We Americans don't really like them, and in many local markets you can't give them away.

Around here you can sell the hell out of a Prius or a Mini Cooper, but you can't give a Yaris or Aveo away. The local Chevy dealer just doesn't stock them and even the Monte Carlo sells better.

[ellives]

Tiny cars just don't play well in the American market beyond short phases of oil panic. We Americans don't really like them, and in many local markets you can't give them away.

Around here you can sell the hell out of a Prius or a Mini Cooper, but you can't give a Yaris or Aveo away. The local Chevy dealer just doesn't stock them and even the Monte Carlo sells better.

Say what you will about past efforts and these 3 concepts may not be the answer but GM needs something that competitively beats the Corolla. Figure out a way to get it done. The answer will be a combination of real product and marketing saavy -- neither of which GM currently has today. Saatchi does a nice job for Toyota.

[Camino LS6]

Say what you will about past efforts and these 3 concepts may not be the answer but GM needs something that competitively beats the Corolla. Figure out a way to get it done. The answer will be a combination of real product and marketing saavy -- neither of which GM currently has today. Saatchi does a nice job for Toyota.

These three are not Corolla sized, and while I think they fit the tiny car market just fine, it is the entire segment I was commenting on. Americans just don't want a car this small generally - no matter who makes it.

The Corolla isn't in the micro/mini car segment, it is in the cheap POS segment. By that, I don't mean to single it out, everyone makes one. Call it the cheap transportation segment if you like, another segment that doesn't do well here (locally). I see hordes of Camrys, and way too many prius', but I never see a Corolla. The same holds true for other manufacturers, again locally.

GM has many great products, though I agree on the marketing issue. Do they need a better Aveo? Perhaps, but I think it is a segment that they are obligated to be in rather than one that will help the bottom line much, if at all.

[Chris_Doane]

Tiny cars just don't play well in the American market beyond short phases of oil panic. We Americans don't really like them, and in many local markets you can't give them away.

Around here you can sell the hell out of a Prius or a Mini Cooper, but you can't give a Yaris or Aveo away. The local Chevy dealer just doesn't stock them and even the Monte Carlo sells better.

Americans just don't want a car this small generally - no matter who makes it.

Weeeeell....the data doesn't really back up your opinion. In 2006, 325,648 people disagreed with you. While what you say may be true for your geographical location, it does not seem to be the best place to judge trends for the whole country.

(Now this is assuming that the Trax, Beat and Groove are B segment cars. Or that a production version of any of these cars to be sold in the U.S. would be B size. There has been some debate, but, eveyone I've talked to who saw them in NYC says they are B sized. Unfortunately, no specs have been made available at this time.)

All sales #'s include all bodystyles

2005 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 40,820

Chevy Aveo - 68,058

Honda Fit - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Hyundai Accent - 41,012

Kia Rio - 30,290

Nissan Versa - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 7,967

Scion xA - 28,033

Toyota Yaris - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Total - 216,180 from 6 cars

2006 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 39,171

Chevy Aveo - 58,244

Honda Fit - 27,934 (was not on sale until April)

Hyundai Accent - 34,735

Kia Rio - 28,388

Nissan Versa - 22,044 (was not on sale until July)

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 12,221 (SX4 was not on sale until "summer")

Scion xA - 32,603

Toyota Yaris - 70,308 (was not on sale until "spring")

Total - 325,648 from 9 cars

2007 U.S. sales through March

Mini Cooper - 8,073 / 32,292

Chevy Aveo - 15,228 / 60,912

Honda Fit - 8,837 / 35,348

Hyundai Accent - 8,272 / 33,088

Kia Rio - 6,309 / 25,236

Nissan Versa - 16,195 / 64,780

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 3,930 / 15,720

Scion xA - 5,354 / 21,416

Toyota Yaris - 19,186 / 76,744

3 month total - 91,384 / 365,536 from 9 cars

The first number represents actual sales figures. The 2nd number is an estimate of year end figures if sales don't accelerate or decline.

[Satty]

How is the xA B segment while the xB isn't?

Anyways, I agree that any one of these would sell pretty well although I would like to know how they compare to the Aveo size-wise. If they're significantly smaller (Mini-like length, some 20inches shorter than the Aveo) and less expensive, then it'll be ok. If they're withing half a foot of the Aveo and close in price then I have to wonder if they're just being redundantly redundant.

[Chris_Doane]

How is the xA B segment while the xB isn't?

Doh, how did I forget that one?

All sales #'s include all bodystyles

2005 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 40,820

Chevy Aveo - 68,058

Honda Fit - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Hyundai Accent - 41,012

Kia Rio - 30,290

Nissan Versa - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 7,967

Scion xA - 28,033

Scion xB - 54,037

Toyota Yaris - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Total - 270,217 from 7 cars

2006 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 39,171

Chevy Aveo - 58,244

Honda Fit - 27,934 (was not on sale until April)

Hyundai Accent - 34,735

Kia Rio - 28,388

Nissan Versa - 22,044 (was not on sale until July)

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 12,221 (SX4 was not on sale until "summer")

Scion xA - 32,603

Scion xB - 61,306

Toyota Yaris - 70,308 (was not on sale until "spring")

Total - 386,954 from 10 cars

2007 U.S. sales through March

Mini Cooper - 8,073 / 32,292

Chevy Aveo - 15,228 / 60,912

Honda Fit - 8,837 / 35,348

Hyundai Accent - 8,272 / 33,088

Kia Rio - 6,309 / 25,236

Nissan Versa - 16,195 / 64,780

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 3,930 / 15,720

Scion xA - 5,354 / 21,416

Scion xB - 8,500 / 34,000

Toyota Yaris - 19,186 / 76,744

3 month total - 99,884 / 399,536 from 10 cars

The first number represents actual sales figures. The 2nd number is an estimate of year end figures if sales don't accelerate or decline

[Camino LS6]

Hmm...

Obviously we need to clarify sizes here. I was under the impression that these were smaller than you seem to indicate.

If you look back at my posts, you'll see that my opinion was qualified by saying that this sort of car doesn't do very well outside times of oil panic. Also, I don't think that just because some people will buy these cars necessarily translates into liking them. Finally most of my assertions are also qualified by my free admission that it is a local market thing.

-I don't see much staying power for this segment.

- The Mini sells because it is an interesting car, not because its small and thrifty.

- Cars like the Aveo are more important to GM as a way to deal with C.A.F.E. than as engines of growth in market share or profit. (at least for now).

- Until these cars can offer the sort of cache that the Mini does, they are more of an "I should" or "I had to" buy than a "I wanted to" buy sort of purchase.

[Camino LS6]

Don't get me wrong,Chris, I believe that these three concepts are a solid and serious effort on GM's part to have a presence in the segment. For what they are, I think they are well-conceived and executed. Having these up the corporate sleeve is a positive thing and I don't advocate ignoring the segment.

Still, an ever-improving car in the Cobalt slot seems much more important in my view.

[Chris_Doane]

If you look back at my posts, you'll see that my opinion was qualified by saying that this sort of car doesn't do very well outside times of oil panic. Also, I don't think that just because some people will buy these cars necessarily translates into liking them. Finally most of my assertions are also qualified by my free admission that it is a local market thing.

No I definitely recognize your points there. However when you talk about "Americans" not liking/wanting this segment in same breath, it seems you are speaking for a broader-than-local group. So it seems like you are saying two different things at once.

Also I'm not sure if the "oil panic" argument holds much water anymore. I think it's very possible that a seasonal "oil panic" may become a pretty standard, yearly thing for the time being. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Whether people are buying them out of necesity or appeal on whatever level, it really boils down to a sale being a sale. You have to remember that, to many people, a car is just an appliance. For that kind of person to "like" a car may only take a great MPG # and an iPod socket. If that's what a large segment of people are looking for, you better have something to offer them or their dollars go elsewhere.

-I don't see much staying power for this segment.

Disagree due to the prices of oil. Even if gas costs $3, 4, 5 bucks only 4-5 months out of the year, people will remember those months.

- The Mini sells because it is an interesting car, not because its small and thrifty.

I disagree. There are most certainly people who buy a Mini because it is one of the small cars that gets great MPG AND actually looks cool. These are not so much the "appliance" people I mentioned before. Now I'm equating "thrifty" to good MPG. It's possible you just meant the price of the car.

- Cars like the Aveo are more important to GM as a way to deal with C.A.F.E. than as engines of growth in market share or profit. (at least for now).

While the CAFE part is true to a degree, I disagree with the rest. There is a trend towards smaller, more efficient cars. GM does not want to be late to the game and miss any market share. Several OEMs, GM included, were late on the shift away from SUVs. They don't want to make that mistake twice. Also any added profit is, of course, a good thing.

- Until these cars can offer the sort of cache that the Mini does, they are more of an "I should" or "I had to" buy than a "I wanted to" buy sort of purchase.

Perhaps, but again, some people only care about MPG. The appliance people.

[Chris_Doane]

Still, an ever-improving car in the Cobalt slot seems much more important in my view.

That is certainly important, yes. Obviously it sells at a much higher volume and brings in more profit. If they could bump the Cobalt to 40-42 MPG range and get the design a little more visually appealing, I think that would go a long way in winning people over. Then you would start to get some of the "appliance" people buying it for just the impressive "40+ MPG" and the rest buying it for varying degrees of liking the cars looks and liking the cars economics.

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

that Beat looks like it would be very fun to drive

[thegriffon]

Doh, how did I forget that one?

All sales #'s include all bodystyles

2005 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 40,820

Chevy Aveo - 68,058

Honda Fit - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Hyundai Accent - 41,012

Kia Rio - 30,290

Nissan Versa - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 7,967

Scion xA - 28,033

Scion xB - 54,037

Toyota Yaris - Not yet for sale in the U.S.

Total - 270,217 from 7 cars

2006 U.S. Sales

Mini Cooper - 39,171

Chevy Aveo - 58,244

Honda Fit - 27,934 (was not on sale until April)

Hyundai Accent - 34,735

Kia Rio - 28,388

Nissan Versa - 22,044 (was not on sale until July)

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 12,221 (SX4 was not on sale until "summer")

Scion xA - 32,603

Scion xB - 61,306

Toyota Yaris - 70,308 (was not on sale until "spring")

Total - 386,954 from 10 cars

2007 U.S. sales through March

Mini Cooper - 8,073 / 32,292

Chevy Aveo - 15,228 / 60,912

Honda Fit - 8,837 / 35,348

Hyundai Accent - 8,272 / 33,088

Kia Rio - 6,309 / 25,236

Nissan Versa - 16,195 / 64,780

Suzuki Aerio/SX4 - 3,930 / 15,720

Scion xA - 5,354 / 21,416

Scion xB - 8,500 / 34,000

Toyota Yaris - 19,186 / 76,744

3 month total - 99,884 / 399,536 from 10 cars

The first number represents actual sales figures. The 2nd number is an estimate of year end figures if sales don't accelerate or decline

You still forgot the Echo.

Versa is C-segment, after all it's much bigger than a Golf/Rabbit, and about as big a the Astra, it's just cheap. In most markets it replaces the Sentra at a similar price. In Eastern Europe it will also replace the C/D-segment Primera.

[Chris_Doane]

You still forgot the Echo.

Versa is C-segment, after all it's much bigger than a Golf/Rabbit, and about as big a the Astra, it's just cheap. In most markets it replaces the Sentra at a similar price. In Eastern Europe it will also replace the C/D-segment Primera.

Heh, no I didn't. I just left the Echo off since it was essentially done in the U.S. by 2005. I believe they stopped shipping them to dealers in late 2003. However, you could still order one if you wanted to until early/mid 2005.

1544 units for all of 2005

27 units for all of 2006

1 unit for 2007 through March

I saw the Versa referred to as B segment in several places, however I didn't check the over length on that one first, so that's my fault.

The Versa sedan is definitely much longer than a Rabbit, about 11 inches. I dont know that I'd call the Versa hatch, which seems like the one to compare to the Rabbit (hatch vs. hatch), "much bigger" though. It's only about 4 inches longer. Width wise, it's actually the Rabbit that is a tiny bit bigger.

It's also probably worth noting that the new SX4 sedan that just debuted in NYC will not fall into the B segment as it is about 15 inches longer than the current SX4 hatch.

[Camino LS6]

No I definitely recognize your points there. However when you talk about "Americans" not liking/wanting this segment in same breath, it seems you are speaking for a broader-than-local group. So it seems like you are saying two different things at once.

Also I'm not sure if the "oil panic" argument holds much water anymore. I think it's very possible that a seasonal "oil panic" may become a pretty standard, yearly thing for the time being. I hope I'm wrong about that.

Whether people are buying them out of necesity or appeal on whatever level, it really boils down to a sale being a sale. You have to remember that, to many people, a car is just an appliance. For that kind of person to "like" a car may only take a great MPG # and an iPod socket. If that's what a large segment of people are looking for, you better have something to offer them or their dollars go elsewhere.

Disagree due to the prices of oil. Even if gas costs $3, 4, 5 bucks only 4-5 months out of the year, people will remember those months.

I disagree. There are most certainly people who buy a Mini because it is one of the small cars that gets great MPG AND actually looks cool. These are not so much the "appliance" people I mentioned before. Now I'm equating "thrifty" to good MPG. It's possible you just meant the price of the car.

While the CAFE part is true to a degree, I disagree with the rest. There is a trend towards smaller, more efficient cars. GM does not want to be late to the game and miss any market share. Several OEMs, GM included, were late on the shift away from SUVs. They don't want to make that mistake twice. Also any added profit is, of course, a good thing.

Perhaps, but again, some people only care about MPG. The appliance people.

Seems to me we are more in agreement than disagreement. I do recognize the possibilities here, and agree that GM needs to be ready. And, it seems, they just might be ready. I just hope (along with you) that it isn't really necessary.

One other concern here is the perceived safety of very small cars, if there is any motivator for the "appliance people" that equals MPG, it would be safety concerns. A handful of dramatic news stories about small cars being unsafe could easily unravel this market.

EDIT: Oh, and the comment about Americans not liking this sort of car? Well, when compared to the rest of the world, we don't.

[thegriffon]

Since there seems so much confusion as to comparitive sizes:

Sorry about the small font size, it was reduced a lot by Photobucket. I've ignored US versions with extended bumpers added as an afterthought, since as far as real size goes, you may as well cover a Cobalt with a styrofoam shell and say its the same size as the Towncar.

Although I cut out a lot of models you may have never heard of you can clearly see the steps between the different segments, and the odd anomaly such as the SX4 with its enormous overhangs and semi-wagon profile, and the Euro-Focus which is more fastback than standard Golf-type hatch. There are also no 5-seat MPVs here, which eliminates the Agila, Note, A-Class, Meriva, Ractis, PT Cruiser, new xB etc.

FYI Tiida=Versa in the US and Canada.

Although no dimensions have been given, GM says explicitly that the music concepts (Trax with Groove and Beat, like I'm listening to now) are Matiz-sized, much shorter in length than the Aveo.

Edited April 9, 2007 by thegriffon

[Chris_Doane]

Although no dimensions have been given, GM says explicitly that the music concepts (Trax with Groove and Beat, like I'm listening to now) are Matiz-sized, much shorter in length than the Aveo.

I dont know how explain the disconnect between your info and my info from the people at the show. It's possible everyone I've talked to is just a bad judge of size. You seem to think they are cars measuring the mid/high 130's (inches.) The people I talked to who saw the cars compare them to cars in the low/mid 150's. While it's certainly possible they're all wrong, it's just hard to imagine several people misjudging by 15-20 inches.

[thegriffon]

With nearly 270,000 responses:

Beat 37.7% 101477

Groove 47.3% 127106

Trax 15.0% 40318

Valid Responses 268901

This is approaching the normally expected outcome in a static, multi-product market (the broader auto market is no longer so simple, but the midsize and compact sedan segments are heading in this direction).

[Camino LS6]

I dont know how explain the disconnect between your info and my info from the people at the show. It's possible everyone I've talked to is just a bad judge of size. You seem to think they are cars measuring the mid/high 130's (inches.) The people I talked to who saw the cars compare them to cars in the low/mid 150's. While it's certainly possible they're all wrong, it's just hard to imagine several people misjudging by 15-20 inches.

I would certainly like to see for myself.

In the photos, they appear to me to be larger than an Aveo (or at least taller and wider).

[thegriffon]

So how big does this look?

Perhaps it's a metter of familiarity. I see cars this size (Daihatsus, Suzukis and Daewoos) every week, and know exactly how big they are compared to toer small hatches. To me the Trax especially looks just like a Matiz with an off-road kit. I can easily see these cars being 59-60" wide and 58-64" tall (Beat to Trax).

[Camino LS6]

I admit, giving cars like this a second glance isn't something I do too often. The people dancing around the concepts are the only thing that gave me any sense of the dimensions.

Gotta see 'em in the flesh.

[regfootball]

most Americans who drive small cars would prefer not to. They generally drive a small car because it was cheap to buy or because they would go broke buying fuel. A third concern is lack of parking space or need of manueverability in tight spots (i.e. condo parking garage or inner city parking spot or garage with tight access). Generally, tho, If you asked small car owners if they could move up the size of car they could drive without it costing more, I bet at least 85% of them would. in fact, most people forget that in the US, insurance can often be more spendy with small car rather than a large car.

Case in point, full coverage on my 500 for me is about 50 bucks a month. Domestic small cars like Focus etc, for me were about 10 bucks a month more. Japanese small cars were generally 15-20 bucks a month more. Hondas for me were way to expensive to insure. VW's were that much more still.

If some small cars required premium fuel, on top of more expensive insurance, they would actually cost more than my larger car.

and many small cars don't exceed 25mpg in city driving anyways, so what is the point to their small size? My large car gets 20-22 city on a regular basis. 23-27 highway. not much price to pay yet for a larger, more useful, safer car.

Another case in point. The price difference and mpg difference between the 4 cylinder Malibu and the Cobalt like equipped are very small. Most folks would prefer the Malibu simply because its a larger and more substantial car. That Malibu is not going to cost you much more.

The folks that actually do prefer small cars usually do because of handling benefits and more nimble feel. A lot of times women or small guys prefer small cars because they are more their scale. i.e. You'll never see a tiny 90 pound Asian woman driving a Monte or a Crown Vic.

If you do, get a pic of it and I will send you 5 bucks.

In our country, the main reason folks drive small cars is not by choice, but by economics.

THAT SAID, if the groove makes market and is packaged right to provide huge interior space in a small box, it could tap into the desire for a car that gives you space and better mpg.

I would like to think the PT Cruiser could have tapped that need, but the PT gets crappy real world mpg and actually was fairly expensive for what you get. The Vibe could have tapped that need if it were cheaper and had a real engine under the hood.

Edited April 9, 2007 by regfootball

[haypops]

Since thee vehicles are using mostly 1 liter engines, it all likelihood there size has to be pretty small.

[91z4me]

i.e. You'll never see a tiny 90 pound Asian woman driving a Monte or a Crown Vic.

If you do, get a pic of it and I will send you 5 bucks.

I may have to call you on that. I know a 115 lb 5'2'' asian female and could easily teach her to drive in my Monte, she doesn't know how to drive or ride a bike (kinda funny since she is 25!).

[pow]

most Americans who drive small cars would prefer not to. They generally drive a small car because it was cheap to buy or because they would go broke buying fuel. A third concern is lack of parking space or need of manueverability in tight spots (i.e. condo parking garage or inner city parking spot or garage with tight access). Generally, tho, If you asked small car owners if they could move up the size of car they could drive without it costing more, I bet at least 85% of them would. in fact, most people forget that in the US, insurance can often be more spendy with small car rather than a large car.

Case in point, full coverage on my 500 for me is about 50 bucks a month. Domestic small cars like Focus etc, for me were about 10 bucks a month more. Japanese small cars were generally 15-20 bucks a month more. Hondas for me were way to expensive to insure. VW's were that much more still.

If some small cars required premium fuel, on top of more expensive insurance, they would actually cost more than my larger car.

and many small cars don't exceed 25mpg in city driving anyways, so what is the point to their small size? My large car gets 20-22 city on a regular basis. 23-27 highway. not much price to pay yet for a larger, more useful, safer car.

Another case in point. The price difference and mpg difference between the 4 cylinder Malibu and the Cobalt like equipped are very small. Most folks would prefer the Malibu simply because its a larger and more substantial car. That Malibu is not going to cost you much more.

The folks that actually do prefer small cars usually do because of handling benefits and more nimble feel. A lot of times women or small guys prefer small cars because they are more their scale. i.e. You'll never see a tiny 90 pound Asian woman driving a Monte or a Crown Vic.

If you do, get a pic of it and I will send you 5 bucks.

In our country, the main reason folks drive small cars is not by choice, but by economics.

THAT SAID, if the groove makes market and is packaged right to provide huge interior space in a small box, it could tap into the desire for a car that gives you space and better mpg.

I would like to think the PT Cruiser could have tapped that need, but the PT gets crappy real world mpg and actually was fairly expensive for what you get. The Vibe could have tapped that need if it were cheaper and had a real engine under the hood.

I may have to call you on that. I know a 115 lb 5'2'' asian female and could easily teach her to drive in my Monte, she doesn't know how to drive or ride a bike (kinda funny since she is 25!).

Our condo's neighbor is a tiny Asian female who drives a TrailBlazer SS and C5 Corvette (and previously GMC Typhoon)... does that make it 15 bucks?

[pow]

The "oil panic" is here to stay... even if it is artificially created.

[Camino LS6]

The "oil panic" is here to stay... even if it is artificially created.

I doubt that, we have national attention deficit disorder.

It will, however, return again, and again.

[thegriffon]

European-voting for the Beat, Groove and Trax has opened for Spain, France, Belgium and Germany.

For voting: http://www.vote4chevrolet.eu/

Edited August 23, 2007 by thegriffon

[91z4me]

European-voting for the Beat, Groove and Trax has opened for Spain, France, Belgium and Germany.

For voting: http://www.vote4chevrolet.eu/

Very interesting.