Spy Pictures Josh Posted Last Night

[evok]

The CTS replacement is still on a 5 year product cycle + or - a few months. You should not get your panties in a tither because of some info that I posted since I last looked into the issue has changed. You have to remember the current GMX 320 is only going into its 4th full year in production after the close of the year. Yes, the info I posted was wrong and has changed, but it is not off by years, or a year. It is not off enought to even worry about the program or its status.

[turbo200]

one year difference is not significant? I thought the CTS would be in production by the end of next year--Cadillac's product line, and GM's product line in general, needs all the shots in the arm they can get, so they can continue to make dramatic shifts onto shopping lists. The current CTS needs an interior/exterior revamp like Cadillac needs coupes/convertibles/S-class competitor----to build image.

[jlbunting]

I agree Cadillac needs more variants and the CTS needs some improvements (mainly the interior). :huh: BUT, we need to be patient with GM. This is the first round of development of RWD cars that compete with the Germans and Japanese. Give it 10 years of Cadillac building upon “what works” and dumping “what does not”; then Cadillac will have truly world class cars. Things don’t happen over night and the Germans and Japanese have been at it for a lot longer. I concede that Cadillac has been around for more years.. but we all remember what Cadillac was like before “A&S” Front wheel drive and land yachts. Now we have 400hp RWD sport sedans. Cadillac has made great strides in the last 5 years and in 10 more years Cadillac will be amazing. :rolleyes: B)

[Croc]

Word on the street says that the CTS interior could match anything from Japan or Germany in the 40k segment. Remember, CTS is currently in the 30k segment.

[Drew Dowdell]

The CTS is well behind the new 330i and IS350 and they're going to keep selling it for another two freakin' years. I am obligated to make the glaringly obvious statement that they really need to get it out sooner.

[post="23117"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm obligated to point out that they are still selling every CTS they build. The CTS may have come in behind the 330i in the latest C&D article, but at least it didn't give them problems, including ABS failure, three freakin times. It still has the looks, it still has the moves and it still beats the BMW dollar for dollar.

[turbo200]

that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

[evok]

that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

[post="23252"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The program has not been delayed. Timing just has been firmed up since I looked into the issue. The SOP is not off by much from what I originally stated. Edited October 3, 2005 by evok

[turbo200]

thanks for helping me untangle my panties ;)

[Drew Dowdell]

that doesn't refute the fact that the cts' performance is behind the is and 3-series; and in order to keep those precious sales we should try to make our car best in class so MORE people would consider it. The CTS is a good looking car, but park it next to the 3-series and if you can't tell which car is more modern then you're blind. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with owning a CTS or that it's a bad choice, simply that there are more intriguing choices in this tough segment of the marketplace. I also don't think delaying this car one year would cause a huge sales defficiency [and it might even extend the almost inevitable sales slide of the STS once the newer CTS comes]; but the benefit of releasing a world-beater car is that your lineup has a world-beating car, and everyday and every person who sees that car counts towards erasing all those ill will perceptions towards CAddy.

[post="23252"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I don't agree that the 330i looks way more modern then a CTS. To my eyes, the 330 is just a warmed over version of the previous generation with just a dash <thankfully> of Bangle. There is nothing ground breaking at all about it, it's about as much revolution as the 1998 E-class v. 2005 E-class.

[97regalGS]

The CTS replacement is still on a 5 year product cycle + or - a few months.  You should not get your panties in a tither because of some info that I posted since I last looked into the issue has changed.  You have to remember the current GMX 320 is only going into its 4th full year in production after the close of the year.  Yes, the info I posted was wrong and has changed, but it is not off by years, or a year.  It is not off enought to even worry about the program or its status.

[post="23165"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The CTS debuted Jan 2002 as a 2003. But in reality it was only 4 months late to the 2002 debuts, which were Fall 2001. To me that says 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006. Plus since AH-HA said to look for it at NAIAS 2007, says that it will be a 2008 model, meaing 2007 is a production year for current model, which is 6 years.

So, my questions:

1. When and where would we expect an introduction of the new car?
2. When do we expect it to be available for customer delivery? Edited October 3, 2005 by 97regalGS

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

No it's not.  No concepts either, just production vehicles.

[post="22797"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

WOW!

So when are the concepts coming?

GMT900 will be the main attraction I guess? (The Escalade and the trucks)

That's TERRIBLE news.

NO KIDDING! Geez, a YEAR... The current CTS will be way outdated by then.

[Drew Dowdell]

and the new Crossovers, Buick Centime etc.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I'm obligated to point out that they are still selling every CTS they build. The CTS may have come in behind the 330i in the latest C&D article, but at least it didn't give them problems, including ABS failure, three freakin times. It still has the looks, it still has the moves and it still beats the BMW dollar for dollar.

[post="23229"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Even after all that the 330i beat it?????

Talk about a bias.

[Drew Dowdell]

Even after all that the 330i beat it?????

Talk about a bias.

[post="23335"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The 330i at first gave them trouble with the push button start. Then the ABS light came on when doing braking tests. They spun the BMW at 70mph due to ABS failure <there's your legendary BMW stability> and after that the Airbag light came on.

Now I'm not saying the CTS should have been first, but the BMW certainly should not have been. Most likely I would have put the order IS, G35/CTS <close one way or the other>, BMW, Volvo, Saab.

[turbo200]

that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM? what about all those recalls we keep hearing about everywhere, should i have a heart attack everytime my car get's recalled to replace a seat belt warning sensor? It's just a fluke, happens all the time. Judge the car for what it is. IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.

[Drew Dowdell]

that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM?

[post="23346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Because BMW already is not known for it's reliability. It's not a Kia but it's not Lexus, Buick or Cadillac either.

IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.

Two points: The 3-series is not a luxury car, it is a sport sedan in the same way the Altima is a sport sedan. The 3-series is a small sport sedan while the CTS is a mid-sized sport sedan. Two different classes, yet the larger, heavier CTS still keeps up with it's smaller competition.

[turbo200]

Keeps up how? In 0-60 times? Nope. In slalom numbers? Again, not if your comparing it to the 3-series. In mpg? Nope. In skidpad figures? What's my point? I merely am trying to say to stop infactualizing and remain objective. The CTS does not "keep up" with the 3-series; but it wasn't designed to. It is a car that offers more. How much more is up to your personal opinion, and how it measures up to the competition also comes down to personal prefence. Amongst luxury brands, the 3-series is the best selling car. Pay attention to that wording. I do know what the 3 is, and I know what it's purpose is. The Altima is no more a sport sedan than the Impala is, it's just a FWD sedan with nice handling and a solid suspension. The 3 is the epitome of sport sedan.

[evok]

As an owner of a CTS and having driven the E46 3 Series, I have a right to say that the BMW as a driving machine is more enganging. The BMW is the better driver's car overall. The CTS with the 3.6 and sport suspension does come very very close though. Besides being a Cadillac fan, the reason I drive the CTS over a BMW is one reason. Exterior styling. It is cool and it's different. It appeals to me. That is not to say it is the better of the two cars. The BMW overall is a better car not factoring in price and size and many of the issues with the CTS the magazines bring up are accurate. And the interior of the CTS is not worthy of a Pontiac much less a Cadillac. But you know what, I am happy with the car and it has not been back into the shop once. But that still does not mean the CTS is the better of the two cars objectively speaking. I hope that close this debate. Edited October 3, 2005 by evok

[Bimmer325]

Oldsmoboi, I hate to say it, but your bias toward GM is making your posts less and less relevant with time. Comparing the 3-Series to an Altima is downright ludicruous. I'm aware of how much you love GM and your CTS, but enough truly is enough.

[Croc]

Oldsmoboi,

I hate to say it, but your bias toward GM is making your posts less and less relevant with time.  Comparing the 3-Series to an Altima is downright ludicruous.  I'm aware of how much you love GM and your CTS, but enough truly is enough.

[post="23422"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

:metal: :metal: :metal:

[turbo200]

And the interior of the CTS is not worthy of a Pontiac much less a Cadillac.

[post="23389"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Best line ever. It truly is not worthy of where Pontiac should be.

Respectfully evok, thank you for your objective analysis of your car. Let this be something for everyone here on this site to chew on. Even though we may have our own personal preferance, recognize the need to be objective, always. Don't kid yourself. Don't lie to yourself. You'll end up alienating half the crowd.

Styling may sway us towards GM [I gotta tell you, if I owned the CTS, preferably V, I would be one damn proud owner, because it is a badass looking car, and has so much design potential----A&S in general has tremendous potential as seen on concepts already]. Loyalty to reliable products may sway towards GM. Livelihood may sway us towards GM. Environment may sway us towards GM. But, please, don't lie to yourself, don't make yourself into a blind cheerleader [some of you are in my opinion], because it's helping no one. And those fans of Toyota, of Honda, of BMW, that have made the choice to go elsewhere because they were free of loyalty ties and perhaps thought the better car was elsewhere, you are turning them away from GM [and GM is too, by not making their cars better] by not being objective and realizing the beauty of CHOICE.

[turbo200]

The CTS debuted Jan 2002 as a 2003.  But in reality it was only 4 months late to the 2002 debuts, which were Fall 2001.  To me that says 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.  Plus since AH-HA said to look for it at NAIAS 2007, says that it will be a 2008 model, meaing 2007 is a production year for current model, which is 6 years.

So, my questions:

1. When and where would we expect an introduction of the new car?
2. When do we expect it to be available for customer delivery?

[post="23294"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Back to this, Ah-ha did say expect it at NAIAS '07. That is a long way away. That is not just somewhat later than what we originally thought. I'm not saying I'm mad at the information, I'm MAD that GM can't seem to get some good cars out already. I like the fact that good cars are coming. I like the fact that good crossovers are coming. I hate the fact that it will still take a while before they come.

[SoCalCTS]

From popular mechanics. Link

It's A Family Trait
Major styling changes are in store for the 2007 Cadillac CTS. Among the more prominent differences are the bulging fender flares that contrast the slab-side effect of current styling. Also new is something that auto designers call a "character line" in the sides that runs through the door handles and ends up as a wraparound line in the trunk. This is the same visual cue seen on Cadillac's SRX. This is clearly a styling badge that Cadillac will adopt for all its vehicles. At the rear that character line marks a bend in the taillight faces and forms the top of the lowered license plate recess. The net effect here is a lower aspect for the deck.


I hope the spy pic looked something like this.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

that was a fluke. how can you be objective and not recognize that sometimes carmakers will have flukes, even GM? what about all those recalls we keep hearing about everywhere, should i have a heart attack everytime my car get's recalled to replace a seat belt warning sensor? It's just a fluke, happens all the time. Judge the car for what it is. IF the 3 were that unreliable you think it'd be the best selling luxury car in America [depending on your view of luxury]. the new 3-series is simply the best small sport sedan yet, and they will keep getting better with every generation, GM has to catch up.

[post="23346"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

A fluke?

Yeah right....

That many problems in one test and you STILL expect them to crown it the king!?!?!?!

It wouldn't have been a "Fluke" had the CTS experienced the same problems and the BMW been problem free.

How was the final ranking BTW? When was this test?

What's my point? I merely am trying to say to stop infactualizing and remain objective.

Why should we? The media certainly doesn't.

The BMW overall is a better car not factoring in price and size

That sure is A LOT to factor out... In my opinion enough so that it makes the comparison null and void.

But you know what, I am happy with the car and it has not been back into the shop once. But that still does not mean the CTS is the better of the two cars objectively speaking.

Okay... Better reliability, more space, less $$$ a roughly equal driving experience and better styling...

How does that not make it a better car? Any other measures are completely subjective...

This mindset (That even when the GM car has better virtues, it's still not better) is what has and will keep the imports ahead in the media and in the eye of the consumer.It's subconcious for most, but perfectly conscious for others (AKA the journalists)

you are turning them away from GM [and GM is too, by not making their cars better] by not being objective and realizing the beauty of CHOICE.

Why would someone buy or not buy a GM product based on what I say??? For all they know and for all you guys know I'm just some wacko with a GM enthused anger problem that found access to a keyboard out of boredom. It's a pretty persuadable person that would base buying decision on a durable good on what an enthusiast blogger says.

Seriously, other enthusiast blogs aren't unbiaed, the media isn't unbiased so why should we be? I'm not attacking anyone, I think highly of everyone here (I'm just having fun playing Devil's advocate) but we are afterall on a GM ENTHUSIAST SITE in a CADILLAC forum.. OF course you're going to have LOYAL people, we're NOT and never have claimed to be an unbiased site. And although I am biased I am not a GM cheerleader. (Just look at my post in the Fuji sell off for most recent evidence)

[mystik]

This whole damn segment is bias, which im having a tough time dealing with as of late. Funny how the 330i has problems and its a "fluke". If the Caddy had those same problems it'd be one of those "same ole GM" type of things. CTS-V vs BMW M3 for example, pound for pound dont compare, in my eyes. One's a notch above a rice rocket, the other is a notch below beast. So in that sense, the CTS and the 3-Series ARE different cars aimed at different crowds.