UAW doesn't rule out strike

[AxelTheRed]

not talking about specifically, but in in general, its a lot harder and more important to find/keep good executives than it is to keep around the same labour.

That doesn't mean that they should be sucking the company dry while its trying to get out of bankrupcy.

[bowtie_dude]

not talking about specifically, but in in general, its a lot harder and more important to find/keep good executives than it is to keep around the same labour.

ONE executive can make or break a company with decisions. A handful of employees cannot.

[enzl]

ONE executive can make or break a company with decisions. A handful of employees cannot.

The Union represents entire factories full of workers, so they are as important, in the case of the UAW.

While I don't agree with many of his conclusions, The truth About Cars has had a running GM deathwatch that occassionally explores strike scenarios...none of them are good for the long term future of the Big 2.5.

I'm not pro/anti-Union, but a strike would basically kill GM---which can't be the result any of the Union members really want.

[ellives]

Well, Circuit City is on its last legs. This move just goes to show the level of desperation and lack of forsight Circuit City has in dealing with a financial crisis. Instead of cutting costs in other areas (or simply cutting salaries for new-hires), they're choosing to burn up goodwill with now-former employees and the public. It looks bad, its callous, and its foolish.

Also, my main point was to rebutt Reg's statement that the best way to avoid being fired is to work at your best every day. Not so. In a right-to-work culture, you can be fired for any reason without explanation. Experience and knowledge counts for nothing and given the choice between a well-versed employee at $30k a year and a 22 year-old dunce at $20k a year, most companies will choose the latter and suffer for it. They think short-term, not long-term and end up in the bucket.

------------

And as a general statement, I know everyone has differing views on unions and unionization, but when I see (not necessarily here, mind you) people making brash statements like, "Good for nothing unions!" and "Useless greedy pigs" applied across the board, the ignorance irritates me. Unions gave us occupational health and safety standards. Unions gave us the living wage. Unions worked to ensure that all employees were treated equally. Unions gave us benefits. Unions gave us 40-hour weeks, weekends, paid vacation, sick days, and workman's compensation.

Yes, unions have issues today, no doubt, and they need to realize they are inexoribly tied to the well-being of their patron company in this modern world. But lets not forget what unions did for us. They existed (and still do) for a reason.

I share Fly's comments here. My parent's would not have a comfortable retirement without a union (not UAW.) This said I have always frowned on some of the things my step-dad did as a union member. It was (and always seems to be) about what the company can do for the union member. This said, I don't think ANY senior level executive acts any differently. They take advantage of every possible thing they can get away with.

I think the difference is when executives are getting away with what they do, in the end, they are personally on the hook for the performance of the company. Labor is not. For example, if a company has a bad quarter (year, decade) or two, there is usually a shake up of the executive team and people are fired and they lose their big salaries. They are personally vested in the results of the company. Labor is impacted by the company to a certain extent but when unions create things like job banks, they are sheltering themselves from the results of bad business and so do not act, taking into account the results of union actions. Over the long term this kind of thing will have the tendency to destroy the host company as it has in the case of Ford and GM. This is because companies work in competitive environments and people like Toyota will spring up eventually.

Unfortunately market forces do not apply to municipal institutions where unions are rampant and there is no market force behavior to keep things under control. As a result these union members enjoy their salary, health coverage of some sort plus a pension. All this without the opportunity of weeding out the weak players. I'm quite sure everyone can think of teachers they've known who were protected by unions and yet should not have been teaching. This should not be allowed and one reason I will never support unions - ever - until they stop protecting weak members. Until then I indict the whole lot of them as dishonest people.

[Clownzilla]

And as a general statement, I know everyone has differing views on unions and unionization, but when I see (not necessarily here, mind you) people making brash statements like, "Good for nothing unions!" and "Useless greedy pigs" applied across the board, the ignorance irritates me. Unions gave us occupational health and safety standards. Unions gave us the living wage. Unions worked to ensure that all employees were treated equally. Unions gave us benefits. Unions gave us 40-hour weeks, weekends, paid vacation, sick days, and workman's compensation.

Yes, most anti-union people do realize this. That was yesterday, this is today! Now, unions are DESTROYING the US auto industry through their extreme greed! If they end up losing their jobs, they will deserve EVERY bit of it! Instead of agreeing to pay for only part of their benefits, they won't have ANY benefits at all. Instead of getting payed a fair wage for their work, they will have to have the government give them handouts (paid for by mostly non-union WORKERS). Get into the REAL world UAW, because your fantasy world is coming to a quick end.

[The O.C.]

I share Fly's comments here. My parent's would not have a comfortable retirement without a union (not UAW.)

I know plenty of non-union people that have GREAT retirements (my Dad is one....)

??

[ellives]

I know plenty of non-union people that have GREAT retirements (my Dad is one....)

??

Of course - for every generalization there is an exception. My point was whereas today having a pension is a rarity in non-union positions of any kind, in union shops it's standard fare.

My step-dad worked in what was essentially an automobile-related industry which was unionized as well.

[Robert Hall]

Of course - for every generalization there is an exception. My point was whereas today having a pension is a rarity in non-union positions of any kind, in union shops it's standard fare.

My step-dad worked in what was essentially an automobile-related industry which was unionized as well.

True, pensions are a rarity today...they made sense in a world where people would stay in the same company 20-30 years....I couldn't imagine staying at the same company more than 5 years today..

[CARBIZ]

The disease of cost cutting is cutting across all businesses. Everyone is losing business to cheaper foreign competition and the internet has really changed things, in a negative way, IMO. Circuit City's problems along with other retailers that are struggling are an exanple of that. The consumer is like a crack junky: looking for the next quick fix and damn the future. A friend of mine bought a $200 microwave/convection oven (made in China) that lasted a couple months, then returned it to the retailer (not the manufacturer) and demanded that they take it back. Ultimately, who pays for that kind of a liberal return policy?

The UAW/CAW has to realize that times have changed in a way that no other downturn of the past can even come close to matching. Eaton's was one of Canada's oldest retailers and they collapsed for two big reasons 1) they were too generous with their employees and 2) too generous with their customers. Yes, there were other factors, but Eaton's went down before Wal-Mart was even in Canada in a big way. Zellers and other big retailers are now feeling the pinch from Wal-Mart.

If we are willing to off-shore our future just to save a few bucks on a toaster or plasma screen TV, then we had better get ready for the $h! storm that is going to hit us in the next few years.

And to you guys south of the border, I ask: Who the hell is going to pay for Bush upping the ante in Iraq? Forget the UAW mess, wait until the bill from Iraq hits you while you are working at Wal-Mart!

[ellives]

And to you guys south of the border, I ask: Who the hell is going to pay for Bush upping the ante in Iraq? Forget the UAW mess, wait until the bill from Iraq hits you while you are working at Wal-Mart!

Who's going to pay? That's an easy one. Answer: Our children and grandchildren. Between the war debt and the costs of Medicare and Social Security coming due over the next 20 years, we'll be seeing a calamity that rivals the Great Depression. Bush will be dead and gone by the time this one all plays out but it's going to be ugly.

[regfootball]

Circuit City Stores Inc. has a message for some of its best-paid employees: Work for less or work somewhere else.

The electronics retailer on Wednesday laid off 3,400 people who earned "well above" the local market rate for the sort of jobs they held at its stores.

In 11 weeks they'll be able to apply for their old positions — which will come with lower hourly wages.

...

Company spokesman Bill Cimino said Circuit City wanted to be honest with its sales associates so they would understand the reason for the layoffs.

"It had nothing to do with their skills or whether they were a good worker or not," Cimino said. "It was a function of their salary relative to the market."

...

The highest-paid employees can be some of the best and most experienced, and if Circuit City's customer service suffers, so may the company's fortunes against Best Buy Inc., whose reputation for high-quality help has helped make it the industry leader.

"I question whether Circuit City's move is going to do them any good at all," said Van Baker, a media and consumer electronics analyst with Gartner Inc. in San Jose. "One of the things they're doing is getting cheaper employees who are likely to be not as well equipped to address consumer questions."

Bet they wish they had a union...

having spent 5 years working for a best buy several years ago, the first thing i would say is, if you are working at circuit city and expecting that to be something to hang your hat on, then that's your first mistake. Not saying its right, but consumer electronics retail has no future unless you are blonde with pouty lips and sleep with the district manager and have a great big heaping set of breasts. other option, you are a big yes man and in that case some vcr salesmen i shared the floor with are now high level VEEPs in the best buy chain. But no one working retail these days should be expecting to make a career out of it. Go to school.

secondly, circuit city can only blame themselves. Although I think they offered good products and deals, they never remodel their stores and they just don't have a hip image. Retail stores need MCE's just like cars. Retailers ought to remodel at a maximum interval of five years if they want to remain relevant.

and yes, they are victim to internet retail....although I even find that bizarre because their web site is among the easiest to use I know (far easier than best buy's) and they give you the option to have it shipped, or pick it up in store. This is a unique thing that say, tigerdirect cannot offer.

I recently shopped for and bought a plasma tv and what i found was that i loathed going into stores because of the idiots working in them. And that is a function of pay. I would gladly pay SOME more for a higher quality employee who preferably doesn't still have teen zits and can speak in complete sentences, but there is a limit to how much more. I cannot tell you how much I loathe best buy pimple faces, and also many car salesman. It is an insult to get 'customer service' from these sorts of morons. However, the last 5 cars I bought, were primarily due to getting a good salesperson and being treated well.....and in all those cases I think or at least hope those salespeople got decent pay.

oh, regarding unions, i probably would avoid stores if they unionized. i have to shop at unionized grocery stores but even those are being undercut by walmart, supertarget, and other grocery places.

most folks i know are big time anti union and despise having to pay more to subsidize a union worker and the union itself. most folks view it as paying another exhorbitant socialist tax. it is a big reason why some folks shun domestics. its never specifically mentioned, but many people resent union employees. they don't think union folks deserve to be entitled to things beyond what average folks get.

Edited March 31, 2007 by regfootball

[regfootball]

Circuit City will probably end up going out of business or getting bought by another company, maybe even Best Buy.

The same thing is happening at CompUSA. They closed 126 stores, closed their custom home installation division (which I worked for), and laid for a few thousand employees including myself, coworkers and boss.

Why? Pretty much because Best Buy is running them out of business.

best buy is NOT dumb enough to buy circuit city, this i can tell you. comp usa was among my most hated stores. they had great deals. IF the product was in stock. and their employees and customer service were easily the worst of any store I can think of.

they had it coming to them.

i went into their 'store closing sale' a couple weeks ago to look at a puter. i asked why they were closing, the employee just looked at me with a stunned look and said 'you name it, bad management, bad purchasing, bad products, bad stores'. the honesty he conveyed beyond that opening remark was brutal.

Edited March 31, 2007 by regfootball