UAW doesn't rule out strike

[andy82471]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...PDATE/703270444

United Auto Workers President Ron Gettelfinger intimated that a strike was not out of the question as union members prepare to defend their pay and benefits later this year in contract talks with automakers.

Gettelfinger said the UAW would fight at the bargaining table, in the courts, politically and "if need be on the picket line."

The union chief made the comments during a fiery address to a UAW bargaining convention that kicked off this morning at Cobo Center in Detroit. Some 1,500 delegates will meet today and Wednesday to discuss guidelines for this summer's contract talks with automakers.

Gettelfinger also took a direct shot at Delphi. Corp. Chairman Steve Miller, implying that the parts supplier's bankruptcy was contrived to deprive workers of promised benefits.

"Steve Miller steered Delphi into a mechanical bankruptcy," Gettelfinger said to rousing applause. "Miller knew nothing about the business and even less about the workers."

He characterized the lawyers involved in the auto suppliers bankruptcies as "bottom feeders" and literally screamed to the delegates that bankruptcies are being used by companies to get out pension and other responsibilities to workers.

"Our message is to the Steve Millers of the world. You will never do that!"

About the potential sale of Chrysler Group, Gettelfinger said equity and hedge funds are "circling overhead like never before." He vowed the union would protect UAW workers during any potential sale.

Earlier this morning, 19 protesters convened across the street from the main Cobo entrance as 1,500 delegates stream into the expo hall. The activists bore signs with slogans such as "No more concessions" and "Rights for workers" and handed out leaflets with the same message.

They want the delegates to stop accepting pay cuts, layoffs and reductions in health care and pension benefits from the automakers.

Protester Todd Jordan, 29, said it was tough for many rank-and-file workers to take the day off or travel to Detroit to participate. He noted that 2,500 rank-and-file members already have signed a no-more-concessions petition.

Jordan and other dissident UAW members from the group called Soldiers of Solidarity maintain that recent buyouts and layoffs have severely dampened their efforts.

Jordan, a worker at Delphi's Kokomo, Ind., plant, said that at his facility 81 percent of workers there are recent new hires working for half the wages of their predecessors who left for buyouts, early retirements or transfers out of the bankrupt parts company

Edited March 27, 2007 by andy82471

[andy82471]

Hope this never happens; this could be fatal for the domestic auto industry. Hope that cooler head prevails.

[bowtie_dude]

Hopefully GM will flip them the finger and tell them where they can go rot.

[the_yellow_dart]

f**k em if they cant take a joke

right?

[Northstar]

The UAW members should be getting paid similar to what non-union auto workers get paid. Just because they are part of a union does not mean they should be getting paid the equivalent of $50/hr or whatever the ridiculous amount is when you factor in all the health care and such that is paid for them. They've been getting paid a pretty penny (for what they do, IMO) for many years, it's time they get paid what the normal going rate is for non-union workers.

(Yes, I think I just stated the obvious)

[ellives]

.... and so it begins.....

[CSpec]

I wonder what popular support of this strike would be? 3%?

[ellives]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...PDATE/703270444

Protester Todd Jordan, 29, said it was tough for many rank-and-file workers to take the day off or travel to Detroit to participate. He noted that 2,500 rank-and-file members already have signed a no-more-concessions petition.

Jordan and other dissident UAW members from the group called Soldiers of Solidarity maintain that recent buyouts and layoffs have severely dampened their efforts.

Jordan, a worker at Delphi's Kokomo, Ind., plant, said that at his facility 81 percent of workers there are recent new hires working for half the wages of their predecessors who left for buyouts, early retirements or transfers out of the bankrupt parts company[/b]

Sorry 'tard boy... this is called "supply and demand" and it's why Toyota can build for $2k per car less than GM.

I'd be interested to know how he got such a precise number as "81%" and how he happens to know the wages of other people given privacy laws.

Tick tock UAW.... Tick Tock.

[ellives]

I wonder what popular support of this strike would be? 3%?

Yeah and that 3% would be UAW members, their families or retirees.

[CSpec]

Yeah and that 3% would be UAW members, their families or retirees.

exactly

[Dragon]

He characterized the lawyers involved in the auto suppliers bankruptcies as "bottom feeders"

Dear Pot,

You're black!

Sincerely,

The Kettle

The UAW members should be getting paid similar to what non-union auto workers get paid.

but aren't non-union autoworkers paid equivalent to what union autoworkers make for the express purpose of keeping the union out?

[4gm]

If they wanted to, couldn't GM and Ford hire non-union people across the board once the UAW's contract is over?

[gm4life]

All I know is a Union is not something nessicary like it used to be 100 years ago when working conditions were $h! pardon my french and pay/benefits were crummy. I my town in Iowa of 50,000 people $50 bucks an hour would be an accountants wage or pretty damn fine job.

[FAPTurbo]

They always say they 'won't rule out a strike' because they are unions, and it's what they do.

It's just a cock-walk, because they know damn well that there will be hell to pay if they strike.

[Dragon]

If they wanted to, couldn't GM and Ford hire non-union people across the board once the UAW's contract is over?

i'd be surprised if you could find enough people dumb enough to cross that picket line to run a cell, let alone the entire assembly line.

[ellives]

i'd be surprised if you could find enough people dumb enough to cross that picket line to run a cell, let alone the entire assembly line.

True - it's a lot easier and safer to walk over to the Toyota plant and work there instead.

[Windy-57]

They always say they 'won't rule out a strike' because they are unions, and it's what they do.

It's just a cock-walk, because they know damn well that there will be hell to pay if they strike.

Precisely, this is just postering for now. They know they're going to give stuff back, but they have to go in tough or they'll lose even more. I think it's a shame that the union can only stand on the threat of a strike to get what they want. I've said for a while now that they should take some of the dues and invest in something that makes them valuable to the automakers. The only way they will keep their price premium and stay employed is if they stop being a liability and become an asset. Because negotiations or not, the long-term truth is automakers will employ who they want to.

As for posturing on the part of GM and Ford, already done. The buyouts not only reduced the long-term cost incursion, but also reduced the rank and file conveniently just in time for these negotiations. I think GM will come out of this smelling like roses with a significant level of giveback. Wagoner will never let this get to a strike, they'll negotiate for as long as necessary for him to get what he wants and avoid a strike. It was his group that stepped in and kept the unions and Delphi from killing each other.

[ellives]

Precisely, this is just postering for now. They know they're going to give stuff back, but they have to go in tough or they'll lose even more. I think it's a shame that the union can only stand on the threat of a strike to get what they want. I've said for a while now that they should take some of the dues and invest in something that makes them valuable to the automakers. The only way they will keep their price premium and stay employed is if they stop being a liability and become an asset. Because negotiations or not, the long-term truth is automakers will employ who they want to.

As for posturing on the part of GM and Ford, already done. The buyouts not only reduced the long-term cost incursion, but also reduced the rank and file conveniently just in time for these negotiations. I think GM will come out of this smelling like roses with a significant level of giveback. Wagoner will never let this get to a strike, they'll negotiate for as long as necessary for him to get what he wants and avoid a strike. It was his group that stepped in and kept the unions and Delphi from killing each other.

They live and die together. Hopefully they've seen this although I have my doubts. When companies hit hard times, very often the quality people immediately leave and look for greener pastures (primarily because they CAN) leaving the dead wood behind.

I just don't want to see GM die the "death of a thousand cuts." If it appears this will happen I hope the market shuns GM and ends it quickly.

[capriceman]

Thanks for telling me i should get paid less because im a union employee and your not? Do i sense Jealousy?

i have no idea what you people think guys on the line make but im guessing your off.

normal skilled trades $28 a hour UAW

Skilled trades non UAW $35 a hour

Line as a welder $24 a hour UAW

Pay isn't that great.It's all lower middle class

The people that make all the money is White collar which is disposable help since they never opted for a union. The average White collar salary is about $120k a year for sitting in a office bean counting. And yes GM can kick them out any time they want.

And No you can not over night throw all UAW employees out. And its not like the 70's anymore you have to almost have a masters degree to install a tire on a car on the line.

GM is now releasing that they created a up side down structure there is almost 5 bosses to one worker its insane.

I predict GM will offer the same contract as last time and give everyone a $500 bonus for signing it.

Can some answer me why they hate unions so much?

I'm not UAW but i am union I make about 26 a hour and have to pay for health and everything else and i have to put money in my own 401k like what most UAW guys are doing now. It isn't all that great. I am promised $500 a month when i retire and I'm over 65 at the time. whats the harm in that? i still have to save.

my stock portfolio is in the 6 digits thanks to TIE.

Besides give the guys on the line a break until you work on a line your self dont talk bad about them. It is the most suicidal job out there. My source? GM afternoons. I welded and lifted rear axles for about 9 months then i got layed off i did get called back worked one day then quit i could not take it anymore.

[ellives]

Thanks for telling me i should get paid less because im a union employee and your not? Do i sense Jealousy?

i have no idea what you people think guys on the line make but im guessing your off.

normal skilled trades $28 a hour UAW

Skilled trades non UAW $35 a hour

Line as a welder $24 a hour UAW

Pay isn't that great.It's all lower middle class

The people that make all the money is White collar which is disposable help since they never opted for a union. The average White collar salary is about $120k a year for sitting in a office bean counting. And yes GM can kick them out any time they want.

And No you can not over night throw all UAW employees out. And its not like the 70's anymore you have to almost have a masters degree to install a tire on a car on the line.

GM is now releasing that they created a up side down structure there is almost 5 bosses to one worker its insane.

I predict GM will offer the same contract as last time and give everyone a $500 bonus for signing it.

Can some answer me why they hate unions so much?

I'm not UAW but i am union I make about 26 a hour and have to pay for health and everything else and i have to put money in my own 401k like what most UAW guys are doing now. It isn't all that great. I am promised $500 a month when i retire and I'm over 65 at the time. whats the harm in that? i still have to save.

my stock portfolio is in the 6 digits thanks to TIE.

Besides give the guys on the line a break until you work on a line your self dont talk bad about them. It is the most suicidal job out there. My source? GM afternoons. I welded and lifted rear axles for about 9 months then i got layed off i did get called back worked one day then quit i could not take it anymore.

There is clearly some confusion about compensation. When you speak of hourly rates, you are talking only about salary. You are not talking about all the other costs associated with labor such as health & dental and retirement costs. When you add these costs in, the cost of labor is much higher than you describe. You quoted, $28, $35 and $24 per hour. These rates seem a little confusing in terms of who is getting those pay rates. You might want to elaborate.

I believe your personal situation is much less lucrative than UAW arrangements we've seen discussed even here on this forum. For instance 100% health coverage is something very rare in corporate America these days. These arrangements have to go.

I know for me I dislike unions because of behaviors that are counterproductive to an aggressive company. My brother works for a union shop after years in a non-union shop. When he first started his current union job, his colleagues had to keep reminding him to relax and take his time. This behavior he was unaccustomed to after having spent years in a non-union shop where everything was go-go-go. Eventually he changed his own behavior to match.

It's interesting you use the word "jealousy." It does seem a mentality brought on by unions... meaning a we vs. they attitude or a certain snobbery. I can't really put my finger on it. I know for me personally it's certainly not jealousy. It's brought on from a desire to see GM figure out the recipe again... to get their mojo back if it's indeed possible.

To me the contract negotiations in September are a significant milestone and the results will determine the future of GM. I hope both sides will be sane without the blustering we heard at the beginning of this thread. They need to come up with a plan that fairly shares the risks and rewards of building the business back. This means up and down the ranks. I've personally hated when companies losing money giving management bonuses when the rank-and-file aren't getting them and the stockholders sure aren't getting anything.

[capriceman]

Family member GM Tech center Maintainace for HVAC systems. Only paid $28

My brother works for a "scab" shop for Hvac Systems Non-union could be fired without cause any day. $35 and is getting a 1.50 raise soon.

Welders on the line are pretty rare now but There is one i know that took the buyout. worked in pontiac MI only paid $24

another thing there health care isn't free in any way. My father just had to get some surgery he is UAW works for GM. He still had pay 25% of it. pays 10% on any medicine. the only thing that is free is than in the medical care center you get free blood pressure tests. Also they pay a huge chunk out of there pay check every week for it.

And

Ford and DCX workers are on the same boat with that too. health care has been slowly cut from them since the 80's.

Its not as counter productive as there manegment is which is there biggest problem. By Far.

Thanks for having a genuine complaint tho most hate unions because they can't have a slightly easier work day with some benefits and job security. Thats why i used jealousy because most are jealous and thats there only reason they hate unions.

[AxelTheRed]

I don't think that any of the anti-union people on this website really understand that the workers DON'T WANT TO GO ON STRIKE. They go on strike, they don't get paid. They go on strike, there's a better chance of GM or Ford or Chrysler shutting down their factory. A stike is primarily a last ditch effort, and its not "just what unions do", and I've talked to former union strikers and from what I gather, it sure as hell isn't fun. The only reason a strike is being considered is because the UAW knows that, if given half the chance, the Big Three are going to hand them their asses this year.

Edited March 28, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[CSpec]

I don't understand the mentality of many union members that they are somehow entitled to their job...

[Windy-57]

I don't think that any of the anti-union people on this website really understand that the workers DON'T WANT TO GO ON STRIKE. They go on strike, they don't get paid. They go on strike, there's a better chance of GM or Ford or Chrysler shutting down their factory. A stike is primarily a last ditch effort, and its not "just what unions do", and I've talked to former union strikers and from what I gather, it sure as hell isn't fun. The only reason a strike is being considered is because the UAW knows that, if given half the chance, the Big Three are going to hand them their asses this year.

This is actually what I was saying, this is all just posturing right now. The UAW needs to put up a tough front and basically say "We're not going to just lay down and take it." If Gettelfinger came out and said, "We're not going to strike," they would get taken to the shed.

Also, the key to these negotiations is not to point out the other side's flaws, but for the UAW to realize that the current situation is putting the domestics at a disadvantage and will only lead to more loss of market share and more downsizing which reallu doesn't do them any good and for the automakers to understand that these "givebacks" do have an effect on the workers standard of living and need to be tempered over time. Which is why I feel that the best solution is to find a way to make UAW labor an asset to the automakers in a way that positively affects the bottom line.

[ellives]

This is actually what I was saying, this is all just posturing right now. The UAW needs to put up a tough front and basically say "We're not going to just lay down and take it." If Gettelfinger came out and said, "We're not going to strike," they would get taken to the shed.

Also, the key to these negotiations is not to point out the other side's flaws, but for the UAW to realize that the current situation is putting the domestics at a disadvantage and will only lead to more loss of market share and more downsizing which reallu doesn't do them any good and for the automakers to understand that these "givebacks" do have an effect on the workers standard of living and need to be tempered over time. Which is why I feel that the best solution is to find a way to make UAW labor an asset to the automakers in a way that positively affects the bottom line.

Philosophically you're probably right but in the end it only matters if the UAW can justify its existence in light of the fact Toyota is successful without a UAW. Why does GM need them? I don't think the UAW has an answer to this question so they better come up with one by September or fold.

[Robert Hall]

I don't understand the mentality of many union members that they are somehow entitled to their job...

Yeah, I don't really get it either..in the real world, jobs are 'at will'... my only bit of job security comes from my performance..

[bowtie_dude]

I don't think that any of the anti-union people on this website really understand that the workers DON'T WANT TO GO ON STRIKE. They go on strike, they don't get paid. They go on strike, there's a better chance of GM or Ford or Chrysler shutting down their factory. A stike is primarily a last ditch effort, and its not "just what unions do", and I've talked to former union strikers and from what I gather, it sure as hell isn't fun. The only reason a strike is being considered is because the UAW knows that, if given half the chance, the Big Three are going to hand them their asses this year.

Thats what needs to be done.

[bowtie_dude]

I don't understand the mentality of many union members that they are somehow entitled to their job...

Its the mindset of socialists. They believe the world (or government or company) owes them everything, even if they haven't earned it. They all have a sense of self-entitlement and if you believe otherwise, you're a scab or some other derogatory nomenclature. That you're less of a person because you're not out there demanding something that you don't really deserve. Better pay! Free healthcare! Free retirement! For what? Pushing a car down an assembly line and tightening some bolts?

[Mr.Krinkle]

If you work a job for 10 or 20 years and all of a sudden someone says, hey, well were going to pay you less and take away the benefits tht youve been getting all along how would you react? There are adjustments that need to be made but this is all normal human reaction.

What are the options? You cant get blood from a turnip. Its hard and have no doubt if it could be kept up it would, but it cant so its time to strike an accord that everyone can agree with. Or at least one that a majority can agree with.

[ellives]

One thing to remember is "the best deal between two parties is one in which neither side is happy."

This means both sides had to give a little to get the deal done. Let's hope they can figure out something that works for everybody.

[bowtie_dude]

If you work a job for 10 or 20 years and all of a sudden someone says, hey, well were going to pay you less and take away the benefits tht youve been getting all along how would you react? There are adjustments that need to be made but this is all normal human reaction.

What are the options? You cant get blood from a turnip. Its hard and have no doubt if it could be kept up it would, but it cant so its time to strike an accord that everyone can agree with. Or at least one that a majority can agree with.

The funny thing about the UAW is that they probable KNOW they have it better than they deserve and that they'd never get the same kind of pay from anywhere else they were qualified to work. And so, faced with a company demanding concessions because its had all the blood squeezed out of the proverbial turnip, they're pissed and scared because they KNOW that its either give a little or lose it all.

[capriceman]

The funny thing about the UAW is that they probable KNOW they have it better than they deserve and that they'd never get the same kind of pay from anywhere else they were qualified to work. And so, faced with a company demanding concessions because its had all the blood squeezed out of the proverbial turnip, they're pissed and scared because they KNOW that its either give a little or lose it all.

Umm... NO!

Every one i know in the UAW can quit and find a higher paying job with healthcare and such. They dont because they like Job Security. Not worried about being fired everyday. UAW members aren't making 6 figure incomes and you have to realize that.

[bowtie_dude]

Umm... NO!

Every one i know in the UAW can quit and find a higher paying job with healthcare and such. They dont because they like Job Security. Not worried about being fired everyday. UAW members aren't making 6 figure incomes and you have to realize that.

I have a hard time believing that every time I hear of them threatening picket lines every time their pay or benefits comes into question. Something tells they're pretty well off relatively speaking or they'd just up roots and work where they would get better pay.

[CARBIZ]

If you work a job for 10 or 20 years and all of a sudden someone says, hey, well were going to pay you less and take away the benefits tht youve been getting all along how would you react? There are adjustments that need to be made but this is all normal human reaction.

Well, welcome to the real work, UAW. Every year I have worked for a dealership I have had my pay plan "modified." Sometimes, you would need a CRAY supercomputer to calculate the ins and outs, but the general direction is we work MORE and get paid LESS. In fact, our General Manager just had an uplifting Saturday morning meeting last week where he used the F-word numerous times, declared that this is not a democracy and if we didn't like, we could go work somewhere else.

I feel the UAW's pain EVERY day. They need a wake up call. The guys around here pay cash for Z06s. Getting 80% of your pay to stay home is NOT a real world perk. Getting 100% health care is not a real world perk.

[ellives]

Umm... NO!

Every one i know in the UAW can quit and find a higher paying job with healthcare and such. They dont because they like Job Security. Not worried about being fired everyday. UAW members aren't making 6 figure incomes and you have to realize that.

If your statement about finding higher paying jobs elsewhere is true, they should seriously consider taking those jobs. Job security is an illusion in today's "global economy." The UAW should be thinking hard about how to reduce labor costs. This includes eliminating things like the infamous "job bank" which I don't believe anyone feels is a reasonable cost in today's automotive environment. Labor knows better than anyone where improvements can be made and costs reduced. It needs to be a team effort to get changes completed. This has always been one of the contrasts between GM and Toyota and the concept needs to be embraced by the whole GM team.

Edited March 28, 2007 by ellives

[Clownzilla]

Like it or not, union BS like this is just attracting the big 3 to the open arms of China, Mexico, Vietnam, etc.. Listen, these companies CAN NOT survive with these current union utopian conditions. Even if these are not utopian conditions (which I believe is a complete lie by the UAW), the fact is that the big three are not surviving. A company will do whatever it takes to survive, they WILL NOT go out of business just to pay what the unions are "owed". I believe this is the beginning of the end of the UAW.

[6t5frlane]

Thanks for telling me i should get paid less because im a union employee and your not? Do i sense Jealousy?

i have no idea what you people think guys on the line make but im guessing your off.

normal skilled trades $28 a hour UAW

Skilled trades non UAW $35 a hour

Line as a welder $24 a hour UAW

Pay isn't that great.It's all lower middle class

The people that make all the money is White collar which is disposable help since they never opted for a union. The average White collar salary is about $120k a year for sitting in a office bean counting. And yes GM can kick them out any time they want.

And No you can not over night throw all UAW employees out. And its not like the 70's anymore you have to almost have a masters degree to install a tire on a car on the line.

GM is now releasing that they created a up side down structure there is almost 5 bosses to one worker its insane.

I predict GM will offer the same contract as last time and give everyone a $500 bonus for signing it.

Can some answer me why they hate unions so much?

I'm not UAW but i am union I make about 26 a hour and have to pay for health and everything else and i have to put money in my own 401k like what most UAW guys are doing now. It isn't all that great. I am promised $500 a month when i retire and I'm over 65 at the time. whats the harm in that? i still have to save.

my stock portfolio is in the 6 digits thanks to TIE.

Besides give the guys on the line a break until you work on a line your self dont talk bad about them. It is the most suicidal job out there. My source? GM afternoons. I welded and lifted rear axles for about 9 months then i got layed off i did get called back worked one day then quit i could not take it anymore.

Well you sound Jealous Capriceman......Sounds like you want to be in the office counting beans for 120K. Unions are important. Things change with time and so will management and the unions. With a Global economy and the Japs kicking a here ( what is there salary say at Toyota ? ) both parties will have to give at this critical time in the US auto industry

[Variance]

Well you sound Jealous Capriceman......Sounds like you want to be in the office counting beans for 120K. Unions are important. Things change with time and so will management and the unions. With a Global economy and the Japs kicking a here ( what is there salary say at Toyota ? ) both parties will have to give at this critical time in the US auto industry

The Japanese pay just as much if not more to their workers as the UAW workers.

[ellives]

The Japanese pay just as much if not more to their workers as the UAW workers.

What's the basis for this statement? What's your source?

[Variance]

What's the basis for this statement? What's your source?

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15171

[ellives]

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15171

The article quoted there had been pruned since it was posted back in January presumably. The comments were left behind though - and they were ugly and telling. A lot echoed my own feelings and I hope there's enough time to solve the problems. I still feel the demise of the UAW is the only hope for the future.

[regfootball]

Umm... NO!

Every one i know in the UAW can quit and find a higher paying job with healthcare and such. They dont because they like Job Security. Not worried about being fired everyday. UAW members aren't making 6 figure incomes and you have to realize that.

The best way to not worry about being fired is to perform at a high level every day. So if there is a layoff, you won't be a target.

[vrazzhledazzle]

This is why unions don't work. Everyone is concerned with their own thing...unions want ridiculous wages and benefits and automakers want exactly the opposite so they can cut costs.

If the UAW doesn't realize that they need to reduce benefits and COMPROMISE, there is gonna be some blood shed September.

[AxelTheRed]

This is why unions don't work. Everyone is concerned with their own thing...unions want ridiculous wages and benefits and automakers want exactly the opposite so they can cut costs.

If the UAW doesn't realize that they need to reduce benefits and COMPROMISE, there is gonna be some blood shed September.

The only real reason the unions are even threatening a strike is because the companies seem to think they can exclude themselves from collective bargaining. This threat isn't really aimed so much at the automakers as it is at Delphi anyway...the company who gave huge extravagent bonuses to their executives but keep asking their workers to take pay cuts.

[Flybrian]

The best way to not worry about being fired is to perform at a high level every day. So if there is a layoff, you won't be a target.

Circuit City Stores Inc. has a message for some of its best-paid employees: Work for less or work somewhere else.

The electronics retailer on Wednesday laid off 3,400 people who earned "well above" the local market rate for the sort of jobs they held at its stores.

In 11 weeks they'll be able to apply for their old positions — which will come with lower hourly wages.

...

Company spokesman Bill Cimino said Circuit City wanted to be honest with its sales associates so they would understand the reason for the layoffs.

"It had nothing to do with their skills or whether they were a good worker or not," Cimino said. "It was a function of their salary relative to the market."

...

The highest-paid employees can be some of the best and most experienced, and if Circuit City's customer service suffers, so may the company's fortunes against Best Buy Inc., whose reputation for high-quality help has helped make it the industry leader.

"I question whether Circuit City's move is going to do them any good at all," said Van Baker, a media and consumer electronics analyst with Gartner Inc. in San Jose. "One of the things they're doing is getting cheaper employees who are likely to be not as well equipped to address consumer questions."

Bet they wish they had a union...

[ellives]

Circuit City Stores Inc. has a message for some of its best-paid employees: Work for less or work somewhere else.

The electronics retailer on Wednesday laid off 3,400 people who earned "well above" the local market rate for the sort of jobs they held at its stores.

In 11 weeks they'll be able to apply for their old positions — which will come with lower hourly wages.

...

Company spokesman Bill Cimino said Circuit City wanted to be honest with its sales associates so they would understand the reason for the layoffs.

"It had nothing to do with their skills or whether they were a good worker or not," Cimino said. "It was a function of their salary relative to the market."

...

The highest-paid employees can be some of the best and most experienced, and if Circuit City's customer service suffers, so may the company's fortunes against Best Buy Inc., whose reputation for high-quality help has helped make it the industry leader.

"I question whether Circuit City's move is going to do them any good at all," said Van Baker, a media and consumer electronics analyst with Gartner Inc. in San Jose. "One of the things they're doing is getting cheaper employees who are likely to be not as well equipped to address consumer questions."

Bet they wish they had a union...

How would this help over the long run? Notice the reference to the words "salary relative to market?" This means their competitors are paying less than they are which means they are at a disadvantage which eventually means they'll be put out of business. Sound familiar?

In some ways it's a good analogy. You *could* argue City Circuit is to GM what Best Buy (or others) is to Toyota. The only way a union would help in CC's situation is if they were unionized along with all their competitors. Otherwise a union just adds overhead, which is not desirable in a competitive market with thin margins.

[FAPTurbo]

Circuit City may also end up paying for this move. They will be getting rid of experienced, and some knowledgeable employees.

The electronics retail industry is cutthroat these days, and service could determine whether someone will buy the new Plasma at CC, or at a nearby competitor.

[bowtie_dude]

Circuit City may also end up paying for this move. They will be getting rid of experienced, and some knowledgeable employees.

The electronics retail industry is cutthroat these days, and service could determine whether someone will buy the new Plasma at CC, or at a nearby competitor.

Circuit City will probably end up going out of business or getting bought by another company, maybe even Best Buy.

The same thing is happening at CompUSA. They closed 126 stores, closed their custom home installation division (which I worked for), and laid for a few thousand employees including myself, coworkers and boss.

Why? Pretty much because Best Buy is running them out of business.

[Flybrian]

How would this help over the long run? Notice the reference to the words "salary relative to market?" This means their competitors are paying less than they are which means they are at a disadvantage which eventually means they'll be put out of business. Sound familiar?

In some ways it's a good analogy. You *could* argue City Circuit is to GM what Best Buy (or others) is to Toyota. The only way a union would help in CC's situation is if they were unionized along with all their competitors. Otherwise a union just adds overhead, which is not desirable in a competitive market with thin margins.

Well, Circuit City is on its last legs. This move just goes to show the level of desperation and lack of forsight Circuit City has in dealing with a financial crisis. Instead of cutting costs in other areas (or simply cutting salaries for new-hires), they're choosing to burn up goodwill with now-former employees and the public. It looks bad, its callous, and its foolish.

Also, my main point was to rebutt Reg's statement that the best way to avoid being fired is to work at your best every day. Not so. In a right-to-work culture, you can be fired for any reason without explanation. Experience and knowledge counts for nothing and given the choice between a well-versed employee at $30k a year and a 22 year-old dunce at $20k a year, most companies will choose the latter and suffer for it. They think short-term, not long-term and end up in the bucket.

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And as a general statement, I know everyone has differing views on unions and unionization, but when I see (not necessarily here, mind you) people making brash statements like, "Good for nothing unions!" and "Useless greedy pigs" applied across the board, the ignorance irritates me. Unions gave us occupational health and safety standards. Unions gave us the living wage. Unions worked to ensure that all employees were treated equally. Unions gave us benefits. Unions gave us 40-hour weeks, weekends, paid vacation, sick days, and workman's compensation.

Yes, unions have issues today, no doubt, and they need to realize they are inexoribly tied to the well-being of their patron company in this modern world. But lets not forget what unions did for us. They existed (and still do) for a reason.

[Dragon]

The only real reason the unions are even threatening a strike is because the companies seem to think they can exclude themselves from collective bargaining. This threat isn't really aimed so much at the automakers as it is at Delphi anyway...the company who gave huge extravagent bonuses to their executives but keep asking their workers to take pay cuts.

not talking about specifically, but in in general, its a lot harder and more important to find/keep good executives than it is to keep around the same labour.