NYIAS: 2008 Cadillac STS

[Flybrian]

GM@NYIAS
2008 Cadillac STS
Photo Gallery

2008 Cadillac STS Press Release

[Northstar]

Now the grill looks like the CTS's... again. The steering wheel is the same as the CTS's, same engine, transmission, a cheap-looking side vent, and some metal trim around the center stack. How exciting!

Where's the China STS interior?

[VenSeattle]

Well, it looks better... Inside and out. They didn't go as far as I expected them to on the inside, but it looks better.

[ClassyEldo]

The Press Release says, "With overall dimensions increased . . . " How so? The dimensions appear the same in their released photos.

The changes are nice, but they lack a harmonious integration (i.e. There is now a turn indicator, a 'GM' badge and an air extractor, all on the front quarter panel. The mirrors do not appear to blend-in well, and the wheels look too 'busy.' The interior changes did not go far enough, when compared to the interior of the SLS for the China market). I'll stick to choosing an '08 CTS over this. It's too bad this is the end-product of the designers' efforts, as the STS foundation has alot of potential.

Now, I'm really anxious to see the production Coupe version of the CTS!

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Interesting.. I wonder how much longer it is.. It was a 196 inches already. Cadillac must have something in mind to update this car and to keep it rolling. To answer the question about the interior watch this video I posted in another thread:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=16344

[ocnblu]

The added bling seems forced. I think the problem is the general shape of this car... too technical, too squared off. The '08 CTS is still A&S, but it has attractive curves to compliment the angles, something this car lacks.

[caddycruiser]

Well, at least it's mostly better in a positive way, unlike the Buicks. The extra detailing inside and out helps change it quite a bit, actually, and the nose does look very fitting, plus the interior is a lot better--same shapes and such, actually, but the revised trimming (once again) helps a lot.

Overall, the styling inside and out isn't nearly as cohesive and stunning as the new CTS, but it doesn't fall into boring either, just in between. Should be better, but until a more thorough re-do, hopefully it'll do. Plus some of the new features are nice, and the DI 3.6L & 6-speed should give a nice new bump to lower models.

Edited March 28, 2007 by caddycruiser

[Drew Dowdell]

I have no problems with this car... it may end up being a 2 year lease to hold me over till the CTS coupe comes out.

[scharmer05]

I love the grille change, definately makes the front end less boring. I would have like to have seen the turn signal integrated into the side vent as it now looks a little busy on the side. Taking the GM emblem off the side would probably clear a lot of that up, and I'm not a huge fan of the wheels, but there are few wheels that I like with that many spokes. I could actually see myself buying one of these if I were in the market for a large luxury sedan.

[z28luvr01]

I like this car. The upgrades do help. The grille brings it in line with the 08 CTS, which it should be, plus it makes it look more expensive. I never liked the grey plastic grilles of the first round of A&S Caddies. The fender vent doesn't bother me, though I wish they'd have integrated the side turn signal into it, a la the G8/Commodore. The wheels look great! The interior changes are nice, but I'm one of the few that never had a problem to begin with.

Oldsmoboi - I just checked cars.com for used STSs in my area. There's an '05 with the V8 with 7500 miles on it for 28K. Yum.

[Intrepidation]

The grill is out of place and doesn't mesh well with the rest of the car and the interior is a huge disappointment...I was hoping for something more like the Chinese STS.

[ToniCipriani]

They should just call this CTS-L.

[jbartley]

i think interior dimensions increased, if they updated the seats like in the CTS (slimmer seats), there is more legroom and overall, without additional wheelbase.

my BIGGEST problem with this car, is the lack of display coordination. The instrument cluster looks like it's a white/blue, with red pointers, while the HVAC controls are still orange? WTF?

every cadillac model has different colors. can we please standardize? saturn, chevy, pontiac, saab, etc can do it!

Edited March 28, 2007 by jbartley

[boblutzfan]

We should have gotten this:

but got this instead:

If you notice the BW image - which we all thought was the North American version of the SLS (it even says STS on the navigation screen) - has a significant design improvement over the NA STS - the center stack flows together with the dash - no awkward seam/joint at the base of the dash where it meets the center console. This is a huge improvement - money was obviously spent to correct a grip of many on this site and in the car magazines.

Side shot of the Chines market SLS - elegant by comparison to the NA STS:

They just decided it was too good for North America.

[boblutzfan]

This is what we should have had... Someone walked into a Cadillac dealership in China and took these pictures:

GM thinks we don't deserve this interior. Instead they offer it to a communist country. Go figure.

[KillFort]

Hey GM, consumers now have something called the World Wide Web. We can see what you offer in China. Information goes around the world in seconds.

Stop treating U.S. consumers like idiots. Did you think we wouldn't figure it out?

Edited March 28, 2007 by KillFort

[boblutzfan]

Hey GM, consumers now have something called the World Wide Web. We can see what you offer in China. Information goes around the world in seconds.

Stop treating U.S. consumers like idiots. Did you think we wouldn't figure it out?

From the Retarded Center in Detroit - delievered by USPS:

Oh my God - the WWW exists... Crap.

Quick. Deny all existance of our Chinese divisions.

America is our primary market. We are determined to keep at leaset 10% market share by the end of the decade.

Signed:

Everyone but Bob Lutz - he wanted to fly his jet to China and bomb the crap out of that communist country - but we wouldn't let him.

[siegen]

The front looks very bold and strong, much better than the current one.

[Cory Wolfe]

Exterior? Good. Interior? Pititful.

[Flybrian]

The interior is by no means horrible, but merely suffering from another case of why-didn't-it-look-like-this-when-it-came-out-itis.

Our STS' exterior is superior, however. Yes, it borrows a CTS-esque grille, but since this car is edgier and the CTS softer, the differences are greater than they are currently. The front looks very elegant, though I would've liked to have seen more chrome touches on the rear to match the heavy-handed grille as well as relocating the GM logo further down on the fender and nixing the totally ghey euro-style repeater lamps which do not belong on American cars because they look trashy.

[Northstar]

The interior in general is not bad, but for the class it is at the bottom or near the bottom of the pack.

The CTS's interior is world's better (though not world's better than the Chinese version). Which of these looks more expensive:

Who buys an STS now unless it's for less than the CTS?

[boblutzfan]

The interior in general is not bad, but for the class it is at the bottom or near the bottom of the pack.

The CTS's interior is world's better (though not world's better than the Chinese version). Which of these looks more expensive:

Who buys an STS now unless it's for less than the CTS?

Agreed. Pay more money to get the STS body style but a cheaper interior.

[FAPTurbo]

I happen to be one of the people who actually liked the STS, and yes, even it's interior, but this refresh makes it look better yet!

[bowtie_dude]

There's absolutely no reason to spend more money on this than on a CTS in 2008.

CTS looks better, nearly as roomy, better interior, and probably performs better.

Why wasn't more done with it?

[Flybrian]

Who buys an STS now unless it's for less than the CTS?

Can't entirely disagree with that. Also consider for the same money, you get literally more car with the DTS.

[Robert Hall]

Can't entirely disagree with that. Also consider for the same money, you get literally more car with the DTS.

Hmmm....maybe in a size sense, the DTS is 'more car', but FWD with a 4spd auto would be a definite step down from the STS with it's RWD w/ 6spd auto, IMHO.

[Drew Dowdell]

I like this car. The upgrades do help. The grille brings it in line with the 08 CTS, which it should be, plus it makes it look more expensive. I never liked the grey plastic grilles of the first round of A&S Caddies. The fender vent doesn't bother me, though I wish they'd have integrated the side turn signal into it, a la the G8/Commodore. The wheels look great! The interior changes are nice, but I'm one of the few that never had a problem to begin with.

Oldsmoboi - I just checked cars.com for used STSs in my area. There's an '05 with the V8 with 7500 miles on it for 28K. Yum.

Sounds like a good deal. I think I want to wait for the upgrades from this or the '08 CTS.

Won't this make Cadillac the second youngest lineup in the GM fleet?

[DetroitNut90]

I don't find the interior to be bad. That said, I am disappointed that the SLS's interior didn't get used. It looks much more like something that belongs in the company's flagship sedan.

Otherwise, it's a nice refresh. I like the new grille.

[gm4life]

Nice refresh but they should have just finished it and gave us the SLS interior.

[Northstar]

Can't entirely disagree with that. Also consider for the same money, you get literally more car with the DTS.

I don't think many people cross-shop the CTS and DTS, and probably not even the STS and DTS that much. No one would buy a DTS if their looking for a sports sedan. The STS would be a possibility, though it has been rendered useless by the CTS.

[ZL-1]

I'm disappointed: Cadillac should have gone with the Chinese interior. Maybe the 'new-car-above-CTS' riding on Zeta can be released in 2010 or 2011 making this STS last only 2 or 3 model years.

[sciguy_0504]

The exterior changes are subtle but keep the car fresh, IMO, especially the new grille, even though I do not like it in the head-on photo. The front 1/4 picture shows it off. The interior is a disappointment, again, but maybe GM will get it right the next time.

[zeek]

I'm disappointed: Cadillac should have gone with the Chinese interior. Maybe the 'new-car-above-CTS' riding on Zeta can be released in 2010 or 2011 making this STS last only 2 or 3 model years.

yes we should have gotten the sls interior. i also don't think that they did enough to the front of the car and i would have liked to see the sls's rear lights. i think that they should have done something more along the line of the new cts's front or more like the 16 front.

[regfootball]

the STS will be sold to all the folks who can't obtain an out of stock CTS or the ones that believe the STS is a move up car over the CTS.

it's insane how our north american car arms are futile in making running changes. They cheap out interiors etc. and f- things from the start, and then they trip over themselves with bad MCE's or stop gap fixes for the rest of the product cycle in hopes anyone still cares.

i'm sure all the following limits their ability to get it right

-supplier contracts, not being able to get out of contracts for bad parts of a $h!ty design

-union contracts

-poor management

-general incompetence at all levels in the process

-endless beauracracy that results in the process lasting way longer than it should

-piss poor marketing

-government red tape and certification

America is king but we can't even figure out how to change the dashboard on a car when we need to retain sales interest. Hell, look how long it took Ford to get a decent v6 in their stable. 2007/8?

The Chinese can crank out a new STS interior and lengthened chassis like nothing. In America, we are so feeble we can't even get it done, even though we all know it would help the car's sales a lot.

Edited March 28, 2007 by regfootball

[CSpec]

Both exteriors are pretty lousy, but the Chinese interior is far far better.

[Cadillacfan]

Who buys an STS now unless it's for less than the CTS?

Which is probably what GM was going for. What's the best way to phase out a vehicle without losing sales. Give them a reason to stop buying it.

I wouldn't be surprised if current STS owners flock over to the revised CTS since that is what GM has been planning to do if I'm not mistaken.

But come on! The STS should get better treatment then this.

[Sixty8panther]

Not very original (as to the CTS) but I like it...

Why the F&$% does every modern motor have

to be inside a plastic coffin underhood???

[MyerShift]

Well, that's it?

The front looks okay, but I don't care for the steering wheel, the odd dash treatment, or the same as before rear.

Never thought I'd say this, but GM China has the better product here by far.

[Intrepidation]

I'll take a CTS please.

[Cory Wolfe]

I'm someone who never liked the STS's interior. Or the exterior, really. It's dull. The exterior definitely improved. The new grill really sets off the front fascia unlike before. The rest of the car is just... forgettable. Especially along side a car, that even after it was toned down, is still a thousand times more interesting and exciting. Inside, it's the same. The interior isn't interesting in the least. It doesn't even look like it belongs. It looks like a $30k interior, not a $50k interior. With the CTS being a much more desirable car... These improvements aren't good enough. The CTS is the car you think would cost more and slot above the STS.

[Intrepidation]

After looking at it, I think my only problem with the exterior update is that the lower grill doesn't flow parallel with the fog light lines...I dunno why but it bugs me. The rest is fine, and the new upper grill is an improvement. The interior isn't bad, but it's design just seems so far behind the SLS and te excellent CTS interiors. There's details that seem to be missing too, like the lack of chrome/metal rings around the center stack dials...you can find that touch in any GM vehicle with the corporate stereo.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Meh.....

The grille was integrated pretty well, my issues are 1) the foglight/turn signal combo makes it look too busy now and 2) It's starting to resemble the CTS a little too much. I mean, the cars are already so close now it's not funny.

The front fender looks like $h! with the vent because it looks tacked on and isn't lined up with anything... It kinda reminds me of the front fender on the Grand Prix GXP; (Except that fender vent was inspired by past Trans Ams, so it at least had a little pedigree) too busy...

The rear spoiler looks tacked on and the wheels would look good IF they were A LOT larger diameter. They look okay but not good. I don't understand why, since Lutz came, all of the GM designers adopted the weighty, Chrysler-esque wheel logic. Why do all of GMs luxury car wheels have to look as if they came of the discount hubcap rack of the local AutoZone. GM had bad wheel designs prior to the new era cars and unfortunately, after showing some promise, they haven't improved any.

[ichbinjohnk]

My gripes:

1. The interior...what the? How in the HELL could they NOT use the SLS interior (and I'm really just refering to the dash unit...not to full-length console and such) on this MCE??? The world of difference between that and what we're now slated for is just incredibly pathetic. Who still employs the people who make these decisions?

2. I would really have like to see it become the SLS wheelbase. I'd sacrifice the little bit of performance for a more accomodating back seat for this car. However, the performance loss coud have been offset a little if...

3. ...they also gave the Northstar one last power boost, as I suspect its end time draws near with the impending UV8/N* replacement. Maybe they've juiced it for all its worht by now, though?

4. The wheels in these photos do look unusually small. Are those 17's? For appearance's sake, they go up another inch in diameter. I don't think a modest increase will hurt the ride incredibly so.

Other than that, I like what the did with the V6. While the exterior has been maybe too plain-jane, I still personally liked it. These updates bring into the new CTS fold and blend with the former STS nicely. True, the fender vents could have been integrated better (maybe too much to re-style fender/doorpanels?), and the spoiler looks a little tacked on, but those are forgivable here.

I just wish they wouldn't screw over ths car, like they seem eager to do. I believe there is room for the CTS, STS and ULS when it arrives (no, I don't want the DTS around...it's time to say goodbye...)...

Johnk

[Sevenfeet]

Where do I begin with this car?

Well, I suppose in one way I am happy that GM isn't just going to sit back and let the STS die on the vine (although there are some business reasons why that might actually be a good idea). So the STS, like the SRX is getting some midlife upgrades. Old Caddy thinking (i.e. 80's and 90's) wouldn't have bothered to invest the extra money. So kudos to Caddy and GM for spending the bucks. Now here's my assessment based on the initial pics and press release.

Exterior:

Well, the new grill certainly brings the STS into the new era of the current Caddy corporate face, launched with the Sixteen concept and Escalade. The grill isn't as bold as the CTS grill in that it doesn't really break the plane of the upper and lower levels of the bumper design. In many ways its just a stock replacement of the existing upper and lower grill, except the upper grill now fills in the space better than the previously undersized grill. The lower grill abandons the Mercedes style mesh for the same treatment from the CTS.

I suspect that it isn't a Cadillac now without a side vent, and the STS now has one. This is probably unfortunate since it looks more slapped on than on the 'Slade or the funky integral one of the CTS. The wheels are okay but not great. The real problem is that the overall lines of the car haven't changed a whit and the rear end is still the unfortunate design it always was. I've never liked the lines of this vehicle since I always thought the car was "unfinished" from its design study, and I know that it was a last minute change from the original design when Lutz got to GM. But it was probably too expensive to change the sheetmetal now.

One more comment...considering they went through the trouble of putting the new grill face and side vent on this car, I'm a little perplexed as to how the 2007 SRX refresh made it to market without either design cue. Weird.

Interior:

I'm still scratching my head at this one. On the surface it looks nice, but again, why did they choose not to use the SLS interior from China when nthey already spent money on it? That interior had one good thing about it which separates it from this car as well as the old STS...an unbroken curve between the dash and the center console. All recent Caddies have suffered from this including the current CTS and old SRX, but especially the XLR, STS and even the old DTS. The 2007 SRX still suffers from this but hides it better with a sweeping frame of the console on both sides. The current DTS partially solves tis problem too, but doesn't quite get it right. But there's no excuse that and ditto on the integration of the front dashes (left and right) to the center console. The SLS gets this right and the new STS carries over the old design. Finally, one of my biggest pet peeves is still there....lots of flat gray plastic in the center of the dash around the radio and Nav controls. The new CTS design got this right in spades....for the STS, its pretty much the old car's flaws.

Other features:

The new V6 engine was expected to be introduced with this vehicle, but now its painfully obvious that unless you need the extra torque for towing, that the 320 hp V8 Northstar becomes a unnecessary option for many buyers. The new Northstar won't come soon enough (2009). Nice to see the new 6 speed tranny paired with the V6. (again, following everybody else by years). The chrome door handles go a long way of brightening up the side of the car that tended to be bland and cheap looking. The lane avoidance feature is nice but again, it's 2-3 years behind other competitors and I still think we don't have adaptive cruise control with this car, or Bluetooth integration. My mother's 2007 Lexus ES330 has Bluetooth now...why not this car? One thing that will be interested to see in action is the new skid system that actually turns the wheel into the skid in order to regain control of the vehicle. Stability systems have for years handled braking, engine management and suspension tweaks to keep a driver out of danger but it'll be interesting to see how a car that jerks the steering wheel out of your hand to do a corrective move will work in the real world. Still, its nice to see some innovation on that front.

[tmp]

I wish they had at least integrated the side marker lamp in the side vent. Having the vent, lamp and GM badge on there is extremely awkward.

The interior would be really nice if we had never seen the China-market SLS. Sadly for them, we have.

[rodinoma]

This is what we should have had... Someone walked into a Cadillac dealership in China and took these pictures:

GM thinks we don't deserve this interior. Instead they offer it to a communist country. Go figure.

I agree totally with you. I was going to buy the 08 STS because I thought it was going to have that new STS interior. Not now. What exactly was the reason for that dramatic teaser photo that everyone saw and everyone was impressed by? Bob Lutz, where are you when we need you?

[The O.C.]

Can't entirely disagree with that. Also consider for the same money, you get literally more car with the DTS.

Depends on your definition of "more car."

I don't think DTS is half the car the CTS is.....from a styling, design, performance (chassis-wise and transmission-wise), and image standpoint.

[The O.C.]

I don't find the interior to be bad. That said, I am disappointed that the SLS's interior didn't get used. It looks much more like something that belongs in the company's flagship sedan.

Otherwise, it's a nice refresh. I like the new grille.

The interior is simply uncompetitive for this marketplace and it's truly a shame GM didn't give us the "new" SLS interior. In some ways, this interior even falls behind the original CTS' interior.....with the CTS, at least you got a distinctive look with some distinctive materials....even if it wasn't as plush as the competition. With THIS STS interior, you have a simply bland design utilizing just plain mediocre material and switchgear quality.

Everyone remember the original ('92 was it?) STS' Audi-esque interior materials.....with the Lexus-esque HVAC/Radio controls.......and the Benz-esque Zebrano wood trim? In many ways, that interior is way more upscale in look and feel than the '08 STS interior.

[Oracle of Delphi]

In a word, YAWN!

Edited March 29, 2007 by Pontiac Custom-S

[regfootball]

yeah, why no bluetooth?

the 2008 Focus will have bluetooth. GM is way behind the curve still in electronics integration.

People's cell phone issues are of paramount to many snob asses who drive luxury marques like this.