Kia to rival Audi TT with 2009 model

[DetroitNut90]

Korean automaker Kia is planning to unveil a concept version of an Audi TT competitor at the Frankfurt Motor Show, according to a new report. The car was penned by Kia's design head, Peter Schreyer, who formerly worked for Audi and designed the original TT. Even the car's codename, Project Snowflake, is alludes to the original TT, which was codenamed Raindrop. "The name shows the link between the cars, but hints that ours will be even cooler," a Kia insider told U.K. magazine Auto Express. The front-wheel-drive car will arrive as a concept in September, with production no later than 2009. "It will shock the world," the Kia source claims.

Leftlane News

[the_yellow_dart]

"It will shock the world with its ugliness, and how fast it bursts into flames." the Kia source claims.

fixed.

[Paolino]

What are they smoking? --- "Even the car's codename, Project Snowflake, is alludes to the original TT, which was codenamed Raindrop. "The name shows the link between the cars, but hints that ours will be even cooler,"

That is the lamest thing I've ever heard.

[Paolino]

And seriously...

... Audi is a luxury brand with high quality materials, excellent fit and finish, powerful engines...

... and Kia has people singing 60's songs in multi-colored Gap shirts.

[Robert Hall]

An Audi wannabe from Kia..hilarious. Kia has a reputation for cheap, disposable cars..kind of the Geo of this era...that's a pretty big leap to Audi..

[Cory Wolfe]

Alright... I'll be the first person to say not to underestimate the Koreans, but I truly think they're starting to get ahead of themselves. First Hyundai's Genesis and now a Kia "TT?" Come on... Is this a joke?

Edited March 15, 2007 by blackviper8891

[Flybrian]

Kia needs to rival a 1991 Regal first, then we'll see what happens from there.

[enzl]

Kia needs to rival a 1991 Regal first, then we'll see what happens from there.

It's called an Amanti...and its probably the equivalent of LaCrosse. Arguably, its retro cues and old school interior out-Buicks Buick, but that's a matter of opinion.

*Please bear in mind that the same dismissive attitude about the Japanese has put the Euro and American companies in a very bad spot.

**Kia is (supposedly) going to be sportier in the future...if Hyundai can become a quality nameplate in 5 years, Kia could easily become a cut-rate Audi in the next 5. Have you seen the Cee'd 'vert concept being shown around? It's actually pretty good looking....

[Northstar]

**Kia is (supposedly) going to be sportier in the future...if Hyundai can become a quality nameplate in 5 years, Kia could easily become a cut-rate Audi in the next 5. Have you seen the Cee'd 'vert concept being shown around? It's actually pretty good looking....

Maybe they can become a cut-rate Audi in the same way Pontiac can/is going to become a cut-rate BMW, but I think it will take more than 5 years.

As for project snowflake, well, admitting that you can't come up with even an original name, much less an original way to design a car is pathetic.

[FAPTurbo]

I thought Hyundai was supposed to be the more upmarket brand between the two.

Seems weird that the budget brand gets an Audi competitor.

[Dragon]

i'll believe it when i see it. won't be holding my breath though

[balthazar]

Since when is hyundai a "quality nameplate" ???

[enzl]

Since when is hyundai a "quality nameplate" ???

So, all of these sources....

2006 Tucson - Highest Ranked Compact Multi-Activity Vehicle in Initial Quality in the U.S.

Hyundai Tucson received the lowest number of problems per 100 vehicles among compact multi-activity vehicles in the proprietary J.D. Power and Associates 2006 U.S Initial Quality Study.

Study based on responses from 63,607 U.S. new-vehicle owners, measuring 251 models and measures opinions after 90 days of ownership. Proprietary study results are based on experiences and perceptions of owners surveyed in February-April 2006. Your experiences may vary. Visit jdpower.com.

2006 Tucson - Two 5-Star Safety Ratings by NHTSA

Tucson receives the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) top 5-Star safety rating for both frontal crash and side impacts.

GLS model tested with optional/standard side-impact air bags (SABs). Government star ratings are part of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's (NHTSA) New Car Assessment Program (www.safercar.gov).

2005 Tucson - AutoPacific® Best in Class Vehicle Satisfaction, Compact Sport Utility

Tucson receives top rating in Vehicle Satisfaction for the Compact SUV category; based on AutoPacific's annual Research Suite survey.

2005 Tucson – AJAC Best New Crossover Vehicle

Hyundai’s Tucson has been named The Best New Crossover Vehicle for the 2005 Automobile Journalists Association of Canada (AJAC) Canadian Car of the Year Awards.

2005 Tucson – STRATEGIC VISON 2005 Vehicle Experience Study™

Winner of Strategic Vision's 2005 Total Quality Award™ for Best Small SUV Ownership Experience.

Strategic Vision's 2005 Vehicle Experience Study™ surveyed, in the U.S. only, 40,793 Oct. - Nov. new vehicle buyers of 200+ models after the first 90 days of ownership.

2006 Hyundai Tucson - "Highest Ranked Compact Multi-Activity Vehicle in Initial Quality" - J.D. Power & Associates

2005 Hyundai Tucson - "Best New Crossover" - AJAC (Automobile Journalists Association of Canada)

2006 Hyundai Tucson - "5 Star safety rating (Highest Possible)" - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

2006 Hyundai Tucson - "Editor's Choice: SUV/Crossover under $45,000 (2nd consecutive year)" - World of Wheels

2005 Hyundai Tucson - "Total Quality Award: 1st place (Small SUV)" - Strategic Vision

2005 Hyundai Tucson - "Best in Class Vehicle Satisfaction Compact Sport Utility" - AutoPacific

2006 Hyundai Sonata - "Best New Family Car Under $35K" - AJAC (Automobile Journalists Association of Canada)

2006 Hyundai Sonata - "Most Fuel Efficient Full Size Car" - EnerGuide

2006 Hyundai Sonata - "5 Star Safety Rating (Highest Possible)" - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

2006 Hyundai Sonata - "Best Family Sedan" - MotorWeek

2006 Hyundai Azera - "Best New Family Car Over $35K" - AJAC (Automobile Journalists Association of Canada)

2006 Hyundai Azera - "Top Crash Test Ratings for Frontal Offset Impacts" - Insurance Institute of Highway Safety

2006 Hyundai Azera - "Best in Class Vehicle Satisfaction Luxury/Large Car (Highest rated car)" - AutoPacific

2006 Hyundai Santa Fe - "Best in Class Vehicle Satisfaction Standard Mid-Size Sport Utility (3rd consecutive year)" - AutoPacific

2006 Hyundai Entourage - "Top Safety Pick Gold Award" - Insurance Institute of Highway Safety

2005 Hyundai Accent - "Total Quality Award: 1st place (Small Car)" - Strategic Vision

2006 Hyundai Elantra - "Recommended Vehicle (3rd consecutive year)" - Consumer Guide

Are biased? Or lying? Or trying to bury the Detroit 3?

C'mon. Is it ostrich season already?

Are Hyundai's world-beaters? Of course not. Are they contributing to an accelerated fall of the domestics? Absolutely.

Edited March 16, 2007 by enzl

[Intrepidation]

It's called an Amanti...and its probably the equivalent of LaCrosse. Arguably, its retro cues and old school interior out-Buicks Buick, but that's a matter of opinion.

*Please bear in mind that the same dismissive attitude about the Japanese has put the Euro and American companies in a very bad spot.

**Kia is (supposedly) going to be sportier in the future...if Hyundai can become a quality nameplate in 5 years, Kia could easily become a cut-rate Audi in the next 5. Have you seen the Cee'd 'vert concept being shown around? It's actually pretty good looking....

They Amanti is a horrible car with poor handling, driving dynamics, and engine choices...it is also a hideous knockoff of the Jaguar S-Type.

I agree about the Cee'd, it does look quite nice, but so have a lot of Hyundai/Kia concepts...that never make it into production.

I can't help but laugh at the codename "Snowflake" Sounds like the name of a little white poodle (which would probably be faster in a straight line)

Hyundai is getting better, and so is Kia, but they have yet to find a good, consistent "style".

[enzl]

They Amanti is a horrible car with poor handling, driving dynamics, and engine choices...it is also a hideous knockoff of the Jaguar S-Type.

I agree about the Cee'd, it does look quite nice, but so have a lot of Hyundai/Kia concepts...that never make it into production.

I can't help but laugh at the codename "Snowflake" Sounds like the name of a little white poodle (which would probably be faster in a straight line)

Hyundai is getting better, and so is Kia, but they have yet to find a good, consistent "style".

I just rented a Sonata for a week on vacation. I'm not claiming that Hyundai is a cut-rate Beemer, only that the 'transportation' crowd would be well served by most Kia/Hyundai products and the perceived quality of the autos they produce is good...as good as the domestics and competitive with the class leaders Honda and Toyota.

My point is that the underestimation of competitors has been the Detroit 3's undoing, and that the Koreans have made such amazing strides in the last 5 years that I would put nothing beyond their abilities, including creating bargains Audi's for Kia.

Much like any other line of autos, there are variations in the desireablility of product, but compare the old Sportage to the new one and extrapolate the improvements to the next generation of products....it's a leap, but not as far-fetched as the posters seem to believe.

To assume that the subjective styling of their product will not also advance (and I'll cite the euro-only C'eed as a real world example) is a gross underestimation of the Hyundai conglomerate's ability to make that jump to the next level.

[Intrepidation]

I just rented a Sonata for a week on vacation. I'm not claiming that Hyundai is a cut-rate Beemer, only that the 'transportation' crowd would be well served by most Kia/Hyundai products and the perceived quality of the autos they produce is good...as good as the domestics and competitive with the class leaders Honda and Toyota.

My point is that the underestimation of competitors has been the Detroit 3's undoing, and that the Koreans have made such amazing strides in the last 5 years that I would put nothing beyond their abilities, including creating bargains Audi's for Kia.

Much like any other line of autos, there are variations in the desireablility of product, but compare the old Sportage to the new one and extrapolate the improvements to the next generation of products....it's a leap, but not as far-fetched as the posters seem to believe.

To assume that the subjective styling of their product will not also advance (and I'll cite the euro-only C'eed as a real world example) is a gross underestimation of the Hyundai conglomerate's ability to make that jump to the next level.

The Sonata is a nice car, I've poked around one before. It's also proof that Hyundai is making progress stylistically, because IMO it's one of the most attractive (if bland) cars in the segment.

It's definitely a mistake to underestimate them. They've come a long way in a much shorter period of time than the Japanese did.

[balthazar]

enzl= >>"So, all of these sources...."<<

do not make the "hyundai" NAMEPLATE a quality one. The vast majority of their history in this market has ranged from disasterous to mediocre; the NAMEPLATE is still heavily tarnished & equated with poor quality, and rightly so.

"It will take many years for the consumer to change their mind based on past experience, even in light of the few quality improvements made in the last year or 2."

[Flybrian]

The fact that any given Sonata to roll of the line has a near 50/50 chance of being rented by you, me, or anyone in spite of the car being a little more than a year old speaks volumes to me. I agree it is basic transportation but that's all this generation will ever be. The car has no style, no personality, and rather cheesy build quality (one I had for a day squeaked all over the place with 5k on the clock). The interior design is just laughable, too. If it weren't for the warranty, no one would ever buy a Hyundai or Kia. Period.

When GM brings styling and powertrain combinations to the forefront as it has in the past, it is the Japanese Big Two who retail the everyman blandmobiles that ought be worried. Also, regarding the Cee'd, its still completely unimpressive IMO because I know what a Mazda3 looks like (honestly, I find most modern compacts unattractive).

Would I underestimate them? At this point, I wouldn't underestimate anybody, but I'll hold my tongue on lavishing praise onto them so quickly. Yeah, they advanced quickly - when they started exporting cars in earnest, they had ninety years of European, eighty years of American, and thirty years of Japanese prior experience to look at and build on. If you don't see a night and day difference between the Sportage and the Tuscon, they have a serious problem. However, even their latest products suffer from this utilitarian malaise that makes Korean products utterly undesireable. Even the much-vaunted 'LeSabre-killer' Azera falls far short in interior design and layout.

Its still going to take another absolutely infallible generation or two (or three) of Korean cars for people to say, "Wow, that's a great car" without quickly adding, "for a Kia." And by that time, the Chinese can certainly bury them if they get their scattershot ideas together and form a real consortium to produce actual cars and export them here. The Euros, domestics, and Japanese have their own brand loyalites; Koreans have none and faced with the prospect of having a lame, boring, mediocre, derivativly-styled Hyundai with a long warranty for $25,000 or a lame, boring, mediocre, derivativly-styled Red Flag (or whatever) with a long warranty for $17,995, what would you choose?

[enzl]

The fact that any given Sonata to roll of the line has a near 50/50 chance of being rented by you, me, or anyone in spite of the car being a little more than a year old speaks volumes to me. I agree it is basic transportation but that's all this generation will ever be. The car has no style, no personality, and rather cheesy build quality (one I had for a day squeaked all over the place with 5k on the clock). The interior design is just laughable, too. If it weren't for the warranty, no one would ever buy a Hyundai or Kia. Period.

When GM brings styling and powertrain combinations to the forefront as it has in the past, it is the Japanese Big Two who retail the everyman blandmobiles that ought be worried. Also, regarding the Cee'd, its still completely unimpressive IMO because I know what a Mazda3 looks like (honestly, I find most modern compacts unattractive).

Would I underestimate them? At this point, I wouldn't underestimate anybody, but I'll hold my tongue on lavishing praise onto them so quickly. Yeah, they advanced quickly - when they started exporting cars in earnest, they had ninety years of European, eighty years of American, and thirty years of Japanese prior experience to look at and build on. If you don't see a night and day difference between the Sportage and the Tuscon, they have a serious problem. However, even their latest products suffer from this utilitarian malaise that makes Korean products utterly undesireable. Even the much-vaunted 'LeSabre-killer' Azera falls far short in interior design and layout.

Its still going to take another absolutely infallible generation or two (or three) of Korean cars for people to say, "Wow, that's a great car" without quickly adding, "for a Kia." And by that time, the Chinese can certainly bury them if they get their scattershot ideas together and form a real consortium to produce actual cars and export them here. The Euros, domestics, and Japanese have their own brand loyalites; Koreans have none and faced with the prospect of having a lame, boring, mediocre, derivativly-styled Hyundai with a long warranty for $25,000 or a lame, boring, mediocre, derivativly-styled Red Flag (or whatever) with a long warranty for $17,995, what would you choose?

Oh, where to begin....as usual, you're taking my argument---that Hyundai/Kia makes decent, reliable transport---and making it seem like I've put them on a pedestal---which is a gross exaggeration of my position.

And, BTW, Hyundai has raised its reputation beyond all expectation, based on where it came from. To think that they can't take it to the next step is foolhardy, but that's what ostrichs' do, Fly.

As for your opinion of Hyundai's Sonata being a rental unit--it's true, but your assessment of the interior quality and general design is not accurate. I sit in new Chryslers, Chevys, Dodges & Ford's every day---none of those manufacturer's mainstream offerings are marketly superior to what Hyundai or Kia is doing. You're fooling yourself to believe otherwise.

Now, as far as what Hyundai (the corp.) is capable of---I can only go on past performance, which, lately, indicates they are making huge strides...what, other than deluded thinking, leads you to believe they can't make those next steps? VW once made Beetles...now they make $100k luxo-barges. Lexus was never seriously considered competition for the euro's...and now it's the fastest growing luxury nameplate in Europe!

So, when you pull your head out of the ground, take a look at what is really going on in the global arena...and apply it to the US market. Midmarket manufacturer's are taking it on the chin everywhere, as the luxo's creep down (1 series now the 2nd best selling BMW) and the bottom feeders creep up (see Koreans, including Chevrolet lineup) in Europe.

The core of GM's line-up is being reduced to irrelevancy, but you're sweating the detailing on a Sonata's interior. That's why its apparent that you don't get it...and probably won't.

If Hyundai or Kia products actually become more than appliances (and I admitted they were above, if you bothered to notice before trying to prove me wrong with hypothetical Chinese products that do not exist) then you can toss VW, Ford, Mazda, GM, Suzuki, Fiat & others into the mix as likely victims, as they are the proverbial 'low hanging fruit' of the industry. Here's a link to some of Kia's ideas...which may indicate that the 'everyday design' revolution is creeping into the Korean subconscious too.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/Kia/concepts/26/

[Flybrian]

Oh, where to begin....as usual, you're taking my argument---that Hyundai/Kia makes decent, reliable transport---and making it seem like I've put them on a pedestal---which is a gross exaggeration of my position.

I agree it is basic transportation

And, BTW, Hyundai has raised its reputation beyond all expectation, based on where it came from. To think that they can't take it to the next step is foolhardy, but that's what ostrichs' do, Fly.

Would I underestimate them? At this point, I wouldn't underestimate anybody

As for your opinion of Hyundai's Sonata being a rental unit--it's true, but your assessment of the interior quality and general design is not accurate. I sit in new Chryslers, Chevys, Dodges & Ford's every day---none of those manufacturer's mainstream offerings are marketly superior to what Hyundai or Kia is doing. You're fooling yourself to believe otherwise.

My assessment is a combination of my experience (objective) and my opinion (subjective) in late-models Hyundais. For the record, I find cars like the current Malibu equally boring though ergonomically-superior. I would certainly pick a Malibu over a Sonata, for example, for my own various reasons, but I'd rather have neither.

Nowhere did I indicate domestics were better or worse.

Now, as far as what Hyundai (the corp.) is capable of---I can only go on past performance, which, lately, indicates they are making huge strides...what, other than deluded thinking, leads you to believe they can't make those next steps? VW once made Beetles...now they make $100k luxo-barges. Lexus was never seriously considered competition for the euro's...and now it's the fastest growing luxury nameplate in Europe!

I'm not saying they cannot make cars that they intend to compete with luxury marques and the like, I'm arguing that it will still take time to convince the general public they are anything beyond a manufacturer of mediocre transportation. To clairfy, I'm referring to the American marketplace. Your examples are valid, until you realize that the Phaeton was an utter failure attributed to badge stigma and the major Japanese manufacturers needed a new branding to successfully launch into the luxury arena. Hyundai and Kia will need the same as people have a preconceived notion on how much a brand's product is worth. Note the gulf between Acadia and OUTLOOK sales to see this as people are (today) wary of paying that much for a Saturn-branded product, but will spend even more on a GMC-badged vehicle without hesitation. With few exceptions - namely Land Cruiser, Corvette, and certain Mustangs - mass-market brands have a price ceiling they cannot breach. I suspect because of this, Hyundai and Kia as marques will never compete in the $35k+ MSRP arena.

The core of GM's line-up is being reduced to irrelevancy, but you're sweating the detailing on a Sonata's interior. That's why its apparent that you don't get it...and probably won't.

Detailing and styling on cars above the Sonata's price range (Azera, Amanti) do matter and do deserved to be sweated over. The lack of thought that has gone into these products so far leads me to my belief that Hyundai/Kia has a way to go beyond competing in the mass-market, despite the fact that they have been manufacturing large luxury cars in their own market for at least a decade. Again, I never mentioned GM in a way you're trying to protray.

If Hyundai or Kia products actually become more than appliances (and I admitted they were above, if you bothered to notice before trying to prove me wrong with hypothetical Chinese products that do not exist) then you can toss VW, Ford, Mazda, GM, Suzuki, Fiat & others into the mix as likely victims, as they are the proverbial 'low hanging fruit' of the industry. Here's a link to some of Kia's ideas...which may indicate that the 'everyday design' revolution is creeping into the Korean subconscious too.

I did notice you said that and acknowledged the fact previously. Thank you for noticing. Also note the great progress Chinese manufacturers are making. Yes, thier products are largely trash, but recall ten years ago, they had no products besides kei-style city cars and rehashes of ancient Audis and GAZ Chaikas. How long do you think it will take them to begin competing with relevent product? Apparently, the Japanese matched our cars in 30 or so years, the Koreans are 3/4 of the way there after only 20.

I admire your ability to point out my ignorance in every paragraph as that is a skill I certainly don't posess (or rather, choose not to use), but answer me this relevant question: If you're going to afford the Koreans such credibility, what about the Chinese? And, if the Chinese are afforded such, where is the impending battle 10-15 years from now - Korean vs. traditional midlevel marques or Chinese vs. Korean?

[CSpec]

This almost sounds like some sort of joke...

[enzl]

My assessment is a combination of my experience (objective) and my opinion (subjective) in late-models Hyundais. For the record, I find cars like the current Malibu equally boring though ergonomically-superior. I would certainly pick a Malibu over a Sonata, for example, for my own various reasons, but I'd rather have neither.

Nowhere did I indicate domestics were better or worse.

I'm not saying they cannot make cars that they intend to compete with luxury marques and the like, I'm arguing that it will still take time to convince the general public they are anything beyond a manufacturer of mediocre transportation. To clairfy, I'm referring to the American marketplace. Your examples are valid, until you realize that the Phaeton was an utter failure attributed to badge stigma and the major Japanese manufacturers needed a new branding to successfully launch into the luxury arena. Hyundai and Kia will need the same as people have a preconceived notion on how much a brand's product is worth. Note the gulf between Acadia and OUTLOOK sales to see this as people are (today) wary of paying that much for a Saturn-branded product, but will spend even more on a GMC-badged vehicle without hesitation. With few exceptions - namely Land Cruiser, Corvette, and certain Mustangs - mass-market brands have a price ceiling they cannot breach. I suspect because of this, Hyundai and Kia as marques will never compete in the $35k+ MSRP arena.

Detailing and styling on cars above the Sonata's price range (Azera, Amanti) do matter and do deserved to be sweated over. The lack of thought that has gone into these products so far leads me to my belief that Hyundai/Kia has a way to go beyond competing in the mass-market, despite the fact that they have been manufacturing large luxury cars in their own market for at least a decade. Again, I never mentioned GM in a way you're trying to protray.

I did notice you said that and acknowledged the fact previously. Thank you for noticing. Also note the great progress Chinese manufacturers are making. Yes, thier products are largely trash, but recall ten years ago, they had no products besides kei-style city cars and rehashes of ancient Audis and GAZ Chaikas. How long do you think it will take them to begin competing with relevent product? Apparently, the Japanese matched our cars in 30 or so years, the Koreans are 3/4 of the way there after only 20.

I admire your ability to point out my ignorance in every paragraph as that is a skill I certainly don't posess (or rather, choose not to use), but answer me this relevant question: If you're going to afford the Koreans such credibility, what about the Chinese? And, if the Chinese are afforded such, where is the impending battle 10-15 years from now - Korean vs. traditional midlevel marques or Chinese vs. Korean?

If the average vehicle sells for 28K, IIRC, Hyundai needs to sell very few units at 35k+, as they've proven they can make a profit at present pricing levels...they just need to make desireable vehicles...that's the trick they haven't mastered, yet.

I can't judge a Chinese car I haven't seen yet, much less the company that made it.

I'm not picking on you, only pointing out the illogic of ignoring a competitor's ambitions and drive. GM should be making better cars/trucks than Hyundai group. Today & Fifteen years from now. The fact we're having the argument at all means GM has already lost something in both of our eyes.

[Sixty8panther]

An Audi wannabe from Kia..hilarious. Kia has a reputation for cheap, disposable cars..kind of the Geo of this era...that's a pretty big leap to Audi..

That's an insult to Geo. I'd rather have a 1990 Storm GSi than some

crappy Kia. Now if the Kia was RWD and/or RWD-biased AW then it

would be a step in the right direction.