Alpha program in doubt?

[Chazman]

http://www.automochatter.com/forum/showthr...p=1102#post1102

Lutz said GM will not bring the European BLS, a front-drive car that shares parts with the Saab 9-3, to the United States. As for a small rwd vehicle, "there's certainly an opening, whether we choose to fill it or not," Lutz said.

Taylor takes the opposite view. He says GM doesn't need a smaller car slotted below the CTS. The smaller car would compete with cars such as the Audi A3 and the coming BMW 1 series and would sell in the upper $20,000s.

Says Taylor: "We're not going there. We're a $30,000-to-$40,000 player, not a $20,000-to-$30,000 player."

Edited March 13, 2007 by Chazman

[Camino LS6]

Only if alpha depends upon Caddy.

[Intrepidation]

It wouldn't compete with the 1-series...it would compete with the 3-series...the new CTS is too big to be technically in the same segment.

[Northstar]

I don't see why a Cadillac is required to make Alpha happen. Plus, I don't see why an Alpha Caddy couldn't be $30k-40k.

[Chazman]

I don't see why a Cadillac is required to make Alpha happen. Plus, I don't see why an Alpha Caddy couldn't be $30k-40k.

Cadillac was always part of the business case and would have presumably taken a lead role in the program's developement.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Chazman

[Clownzilla]

Taylor takes the opposite view. He says GM doesn't need a smaller car slotted below the CTS. The smaller car would compete with cars such as the Audi A3 and the coming BMW 1 series and would sell in the upper $20,000s.

Says Taylor: "We're not going there. We're a $30,000-to-$40,000 player, not a $20,000-to-$30,000 player."

I agree, Cadillac does not need to compete with such makers as Audi and BMW. Let them make those lowly sub-30k luxury cars. There is NO profit and prestige in that class. Cadillac should sell 30k+ luxury cars ONLY!*

*Sarcasm

[bowtie_dude]

Why does alpha need to be slotted in a lux brand? I'm fine with a small alpha in Pontiac around $20k. In fact, thats what I f@#king want.

[z28luvr01]

This smells like a smokescreen. There is such a need for this program that I can't see them not following through with it:

Solstice/Sky/GT + associated coupes and sedans

Torana

G6 replacement

gen-6 Camaro

add some exotic materials, and you have a nice Y-body replacement, too.

Also, setting up a RWD B-series lineup makes a lot of sense for Caddy. The B would be a true 3-series competitor, and allow the C-series to go against the 5. Assuming the DTS replacement takes over for the STS, Caddy could actually have an alphanumeric lineup that makes sense (B, C, D).

Give me Jim Taylor's job for a day.

[ZL-1]

Perhaps the Cadillac would provide the volume (and consequently the profitability) the Holden+Pontiac pair wouldn't be able achieve on their own.

[Drew Dowdell]

A properly done, RWD or AWD Astra type vehicle with the appropriate appointments would make a good A-class for Caddy.

[dratnol]

If a Cadillac Alpha was done properly, it could be priced from $28,000 up. This would allow GM to move the CTS up in price a little to closer match the 5 series (also open up more profits).

Just a thought.

[mikesright]

They should still have the program on. They need a Kappa replacement as well as smaller Pontiac, Opel, Cadillac, and Holden small RWD cars, perhaps Chevy would participate globally in it as well. Lutz was intentionally being vague. No one can comment on future product at GM, it's the corporate policy. Also, I don't believe they would necessarily price down a smaller Cadillac as well. I think they will start moving CTS and STS up in scale (size) and price over time. You can see it already with CTS, and DTS is probably going to die sometime soon, so they'll try to fit that need with a larger STS.

[Northstar]

I really don't understand Taylor's quote: "We're not going there. We're a $30,000-to-$40,000 player, not a $20,000-to-$30,000 player."

$20k-30k is where I would see the Pontiac Alpha slotting in (perhaps more like $18k-28k, but still close enough), so I don't see where he's getting $20-30k for the Cadillac version. If the Pontiac version with all the bells and whistles is $28k, then the Cadillac with most of those same bells and whistles + a nicer interior + Cadillac badge > $28k.

[91z4me]

I don't see why a Cadillac is required to make Alpha happen. Plus, I don't see why an Alpha Caddy couldn't be $30k-40k.

Quite simply the money. Caddy's Alpha would sell at a higher price point and would add to the volume that will cover the cost, meaning the development costs less per car. And add that it would sell higher and it is a win-win situation.

This smells like a smokescreen. There is such a need for this program that I can't see them not following through with it:

Solstice/Sky/GT + associated coupes and sedans

Torana

G6 replacement

gen-6 Camaro

add some exotic materials, and you have a nice Y-body replacement, too.

Also, setting up a RWD B-series lineup makes a lot of sense for Caddy. The B would be a true 3-series competitor, and allow the C-series to go against the 5. Assuming the DTS replacement takes over for the STS, Caddy could actually have an alphanumeric lineup that makes sense (B, C, D).

Give me Jim Taylor's job for a day.

If this is your plan for Alpha I am glad you don't have Taylor's job. The plan for Alpha right now is: compact RWD car chassis with Ecotec only powertrains. Does that sound like Corvette? Camaro? G6? No.

If you try to make 1 chassis that can do everything you end up with a Jack of all trades, Master of none. Part of the reason that the y-body program is SO sucessful is that it is, until the XLR, the only thing on the chassis. It was a dedicated purpose built program, just like Kappa. The higher price point made the business case, Corvette provides all of Corvette development dollars on its own.

Think of it this way 350Z vs Corvette. Both are 2 seat only coupes/convertibles. One is smaller and has a V6 yet it weighs more! The reason the 350Z weighs more is that it is on a 'flexible' chassis. FM has so many prerequisites on other programs that the low volume 350Z's needs got pushed down.

I would rather have a purpose built 2+2 lightweight unibody sedan/coupe only than a 'universal' platform like FM

[drew770]

Is it me or does it seem that Caddy is still in alot of flux???

Alot of these decisions should have already been made years ago. At this point in the Caddy Renaissance, they should be fine tuning what they already have or at least have 3 or 4 production ready prototypes during winter testing or something.

If the plan is to push the CTS up to compete with BMW 5 then I hope it has technology and the options to compete with the 5 Series.

Have GM figured out what platform the BLS will be on? What is the final decision on the STS and the DTS? Is the SRX being elimated or not and if it is where is the Caddy crossover to compete with the Lexus RX?

At this point in time, Caddy should really have it's crap together. At this point in the 3 generation Slade and 2nd generation CTS the stable for Caddy should be full by now.

If you want to play with the big boys then you need to act like one. And with all this woulda, coulda and shouldas that is coming from Caddy is dishearting.

[Northstar]

Alpha should be able to house a V6. I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to; every competitor's Alpha-sized cars can have bigger-than I4 engines. I think it's way to far along to know anything but the basics of Alpha anyways, and I don't think they already would have decided that there will only be I4s when the program is barely even penciled in.

[91z4me]

Alpha should be able to house a V6. I see no reason why it wouldn't be able to; every competitor's Alpha-sized cars can have bigger-than I4 engines. I think it's way to far along to know anything but the basics of Alpha anyways, and I don't think they already would have decided that there will only be I4s when the program is barely even penciled in.

You can believe whatever you want but EVERYTHING I have read about this program has indicated only Ecotec powertrains.

[Northstar]

You can believe whatever you want but EVERYTHING I have read about this program has indicated only Ecotec powertrains.

Have a link to the stuff you read? I don't ever remember seeing anything about Alpha's powertrain choices having already been decided.

[Regalguy01]

Gm Brass =

Here is my thought: Don't wanna make it for caddy? Feel like its just not quite up to those standards? Note to Lutz(whom I respect greatly). I have another thought for you and I will spell it, B-U-I-C-K!!!!

Lets face it, with the favorable acceptance of the Lucerne and anticipation of the Enclave(which has already garnered critical acclaim for its interior AND exterior), Buick needs to keep the hits coming. Yes people noticed the Lucerne, but for many(myself included) they don't need/want so much car. My argument against the current line-up is that Lucy makes Lacrosse obsolete. Why? Well why spend $25k-$27k on a decently equipped Lacrosse CXL when you can have the better equipped, better looking Lucerne CXL V6 for $27k-$29k. The Lacrosse, though a not-that-bad car, has never caught on quite like GM wanted to and the fact that the Lucerne continues to outsell it even though Lacrosse has been around longer, makes my case for me.

So, back to the topic at hand. My proposal would be make this car for Buick. Ditch the LAX and make this the entry level. Bless it with at least 3(yes 3) engine choices and give it a more 'upscale look' than the cars in the $20k to $30k This, coupled w/Lucerne and Enclave, will bring the late 20's, 30's and 40 somethings you hoped to reached with the LAX anyway. This will allow Buick's appeal to grow while still not stepping on the toes of Caddy. This will bring back the strong BUICK heritage that brought forth such automobeast's as the original Riveara, Wildcat and Grand National. Bring back the excitement to BUICK!!!!!!!!

And if this platform HAS to go to cadillac then I have an equally simple fix. Delete the current, non-relevant STS from the lineup. Move up the CTS that debuted at the auto show(which is stunning inside and out) and then insert this BLS in the CTS's place. Now get ta work GM!!!!!!!

[jbartley]

the article really never says the the alpha-platform was in jeopardy, just the fact that a sub-CTS sedan is doubtful.

I thought the point of alpha was new RWD platform for the G4? and maybe a sedan for Holden?

"Beta" was for the G6 and Torana? correct?

Edited March 13, 2007 by jbartley

[CSpec]

Didn't Jim Queen already say that Alpha was a done deal for a European Cadillac? He told Autoweek in an interview a few months back that all they need is a plant. I would assume that Holden is developing it in addition to the Torana/G6.

[hyperv6]

I think we all should know by now not to write off anything this far out yet.

How many times was Zeta on, off, on again, not off but in idle, back again but never really gone, reconstitited. and finally on the market.

If Alpha is scrubbed that does not mean it may not be back or something similar takes it's place.

Don't under estimate GM as no matter what we get it will fill the needs we see. The folks calling the shots today have more hits than misses and the misses are not Aztec like.

We will be ok no matter what they call this class car.

[gm4life]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

[CaddyXLR-V]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

Why not just take on the best seller...... the 3 series? I'm sure there's some BMW fans out there complaining about too many RWD BMWs, 1-3-5-6-7 series, Z4, X5, X3, not to mention conv, and wagon versions of a few of them. But Cadillac has 3 and that's plenty?

[zeek]

Is it me or does it seem that Caddy is still in alot of flux???

Alot of these decisions should have already been made years ago. At this point in the Caddy Renaissance, they should be fine tuning what they already have or at least have 3 or 4 production ready prototypes during winter testing or something.

If the plan is to push the CTS up to compete with BMW 5 then I hope it has technology and the options to compete with the 5 Series.

Have GM figured out what platform the BLS will be on? What is the final decision on the STS and the DTS? Is the SRX being elimated or not and if it is where is the Caddy crossover to compete with the Lexus RX?

At this point in time, Caddy should really have it's crap together. At this point in the 3 generation Slade and 2nd generation CTS the stable for Caddy should be full by now.

If you want to play with the big boys then you need to act like one. And with all this woulda, coulda and shouldas that is coming from Caddy is dishearting.

yes caddy needs a plan already! heck, even recently i read on leftlanenews.com that caddy is either going to make a car similar to the cien or the 16! come on! both projects were axed a long time ago and they were both stellar projects - so build both!

as for caddy needing a car below the cts... well if they move the cts up to the 5 series level then yes there is a place for a new entry level car. if not i'm not so certain that they need one. pontiac needs one and they can share the platform with saturn and whoever else wants in but i don't think that caddy needs it... just maybe not one that might fit a base pontiac rwd car...

as far as the bls goes... it needs to die and fast! it's ugly and has no appeal to the market it's in and would not sell well here either.

[Northstar]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

Aura/Lacrosse = TSX/ES350 fighter. Cadillac should aim higher.

[hyperv6]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

The BLS is to Caddy what the Phaeton was to VW in the US market the wrong car for the precieved company.

Most People would not be as accepting of the BLS in America since Caddy is seen as a larger expensive cars vs a low price FWD. Too many remember the the last FWD rebadged small sedan Caddy had in the 80's. VW was just the wrong company to push a $100,000 sedan in the states as they are seen as a affordable car company not a high end luxury car company. These preceptions can be overlooked in Europe as they do not view either car the same as we do.

This is the same reason F1 racing is poplular in Europe and NASCAR is number one here. Different preceptions of what each group expects.

Besides the Acura is better delt with by a future Pontiac and Saturn model. I just don't see the present Lacrosse appealing to too many Acura owners. Buick could do it but it needs something newer and better than a W chassie

[hyperv6]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

The BLS is to Caddy what the Phaeton was to VW in the US market the wrong car for the precieved company.

Most People would not be as accepting of the BLS in America since Caddy is seen as a larger expensive cars vs a low price FWD. Too many remember the the last FWD rebadged small sedan Caddy had in the 80's. VW was just the wrong company to push a $100,000 sedan in the states as they are seen as a affordable car company not a high end luxury car company. These preceptions can be overlooked in Europe as they do not view either car the same as we do.

This is the same reason F1 racing is poplular in Europe and NASCAR is number one here. Different preceptions of what each group expects.

Besides the Acura is better delt with by a future Pontiac and Saturn model. I just don't see the present Lacrosse appealing to too many Acura owners. Buick could do it but it needs something newer and better than a W chassie

[91z4me]

Am I they only one who wants the BLS? It would be a PERFECT TSX fighter or ES 350 fighter. I personally think they are great looking car and different enough than the Saab to sell. Cadillac has enough RWD Cars the STS, XLR & CTS are plenty. Bring over the BLS and keep the DTS FWD but on a new platform. That is simply my vote.

I like it, but I don't think it would do well in the US market. If it had the 2.8 NA/6 speed autostick or a 3.6 V6/6 speed autostick it may sell decently, but then again I don't know. It would likely make some money but it may drag down the perception of Caddy.

Caddy does need something smaller than the CTS. And the STS needs to step up to SLS size or die. It is just to close to the new CTS in size.

Also a LWB extra large Zeta car will do well on the upper end. That is really all Caddy needs.

All that being said I would like to pick up one up from Mexico as a daily driver if it were legal in the US.

[97regalGS]

that article, while amusing and an interesting read, doesn't provide one stitch of evidence about the future of alpha. i love when writers just throw one line quotes and then folks latch onto it like it is gospel.

[Chazman]

the article really never says the the alpha-platform was in jeopardy, just the fact that a sub-CTS sedan is doubtful.

I thought the point of alpha was new RWD platform for the G4? and maybe a sedan for Holden?

"Beta" was for the G6 and Torana? correct?

Beta is an internet name started by an Australian story. IOW, it's not real.

The article doesn't say anything about Alpha at all. In fact, I'm not even sure if the word "Alpha" has even been publicly used by GM. What we have here though, is Lutz hedging on whether Cadillac will actually get a small RWD car (Alpha), and Taylor flatout saying he doesn't want it.

The business plan for Alpha BTW, integrates Cadillac as a core developer/user. No Cadillac, leaves Alpha less viable.

[Camino LS6]

So what we have is Taylor lobbying and Lutz undecided.

[gm4life]

I would send it to American with a 2.8L V6 and a 6spd manual or automatic. They need an STS/SLS, CTS and yes the FWD DTS is what Cadillac really needs.

[turbo200]

Is it me or does it seem that Caddy is still in alot of flux???

Alot of these decisions should have already been made years ago. At this point in the Caddy Renaissance, they should be fine tuning what they already have or at least have 3 or 4 production ready prototypes during winter testing or something.

If the plan is to push the CTS up to compete with BMW 5 then I hope it has technology and the options to compete with the 5 Series.

Have GM figured out what platform the BLS will be on? What is the final decision on the STS and the DTS? Is the SRX being elimated or not and if it is where is the Caddy crossover to compete with the Lexus RX?

At this point in time, Caddy should really have it's crap together. At this point in the 3 generation Slade and 2nd generation CTS the stable for Caddy should be full by now.

If you want to play with the big boys then you need to act like one. And with all this woulda, coulda and shouldas that is coming from Caddy is dishearting.

I really couldn't agree more with everything you've said. All this second-guessing, hesitation, doubt, and lack of vision is seriously disheartening and disappointing. GM is squandering time and potential profit by not having a full lineup of RWD vehicles for Caddy, along with the platforms to support this and provide the other brands with exciting premium feeling cars, like Pontiac and Buick. No other word for this than stupid stupid stupid

[turbo200]

Cadillac needs a car like the RWD BLS. A compact BLS starting at 28/29k would be a perfect target for the small sedan market that also prefers 3-series and smaller sedan market. A real 3-series [smaller even] competitor for cheaper than the competition, but with BMW beating dynamics. The CTS has already helped atain an image of "cool" [for Caddy and cars]; why not build with a more direct response towards IS, 3 and other compacts but with fully edgy cutting edge design. If it drives better than the 3-series it would be a mass market success. Caddy does need fleshing out; and this is one arena it has never competed in but could stand to seriously benefit from participating in, especially when considering all the different possibilities from the Alpha platform. The usual cutting edge interior design/quality is necessary and the right vision for design. This car could stand to appeal to the youth market, and be a strong draw for the affluent youth; but that would just be one segment that it could draw. It should start at 28k. It would not compete with the CTS because it would be a vastly different car from that one. A strong BLS could position CTS for increases in pricing.

Cadillac needs to diversify. They are the strongest platform for GM, along with Chevy. Cadillac needs truly competitive and mind-blowing product. CTS is an example, and it can only stand to be bigger; they need to build on this success, like yesterday.

Alphas for Caddy, Buick, Pontiac, Saab [roadster], even Saturn and Chevy. They could stand to have a flexible platform in the small RWDs to make all kinds of small performance cars. The possibility for V6 should be built in, because you never know when you might want to throw one in; unless they can get above 400hp reliably out of Ecotec engines. But I believe there can be more mainstream products off this too, like a G6.

[jbartley]

Beta is an internet name started by an Australian story. IOW, it's not real.

The article doesn't say anything about Alpha at all. In fact, I'm not even sure if the word "Alpha" has even been publicly used by GM. What we have here though, is Lutz hedging on whether Cadillac will actually get a small RWD car (Alpha), and Taylor flatout saying he doesn't want it.

The business plan for Alpha BTW, integrates Cadillac as a core developer/user. No Cadillac, leaves Alpha less viable.

whenever we've heard "alpha" we've also heard "ecotec i-4", i don't know if that kind of car should be a cadillac, ever?

what's the platform that the next-G6 and Torona speculated might ride on?

Edited March 14, 2007 by jbartley

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I like the idea of a compact rear-drive car, but GM has other, far more important projects-like growing Saturn, making more-than-mediocre compact cars (i.e. Cobalt), and fixing Pontiac-Buick-GMC.

[ellives]

I would send it to American with a 2.8L V6 and a 6spd manual or automatic. They need an STS/SLS, CTS and yes the FWD DTS is what Cadillac really needs.

There is no way Cadillac needs a FWD DTS. They need to dump this platform and roll out a RWD DTS for this large car segment. FWD is dead, dead, dead for this segment.

[bcs296]

There is no way Cadillac needs a FWD DTS. They need to dump this platform and roll out a RWD DTS for this large car segment. FWD is dead, dead, dead for this segment.

[regfootball]

if it's a rwd based chassis, AWD better be made available. any 3 series sized competitor from caddy has to match what the other big dogs are doing and take away any reason for northerners to not buy the car as well.

no point in doing it in RWD if you don't make AWD an option as well. Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, they all learned that lesson. RWD alone is a sales deathknell. Why else would the DTS be the most sold Caddy?

Edited March 14, 2007 by regfootball

[ehaase]

Why else would the DTS be the most sold Caddy?

Could it be because Hertz, Avis, National, etc. keep buying lots of them?

I agree with Turbo200; it is diappointing Cadillac hasn't decided on the next DTS, an entry level vehicle, or a $100,000 product (which I don't favor).

[gm4life]

I agree 100 percent with the man above. Actually what my point is if the segment is so dead why do sales remain so good in fact the best selling Cadillac of 2006. Seriously GM will think twice about changing so much about Cadillac's best seller especially the drive wheels. FWD still has its plus's yes not what they once were. I could honestly care less about the Alpha with the wonderful CTS that is as small as Cadillac needs to go! If everything goes RWD what will happen to the mainstream FWD vehicles that currently make up a huge part of GM's sales? Seriuously Toyota sells no RWD cars with a Toyota badge. Lexus is a different story. They clearly don't need any RWD cars and are doing fine. RWD doesn't sell except to performance guru's (like me to an extent) and people in the South. I used to be 100 percent RWD cars but have opened up the G8 is a great example, also futher-more the CTS, STS and XLR and maybe a sports coupe would be sufficent "performance cars" to keep Cadillac a-float. No every Cadillac buyer wants on rail handling and RWD. Hmmm gee I wonder why the DTS outsold everyother Cadillac in 2006? The public has spoken and the DTS on a FWD platform makes the most sence!

Edited March 15, 2007 by gm4life

[ehaase]

The public has spoken and the DTS on a FWD platform makes the most sence!

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=3309

[hyperv6]

There are many reasons the DTS sells well.

Fleet sales to rental car fleets that are not profitable.

Funeral cars a dying gig.

Limo livery cars for big citys like New York/ LA/ Chicago

People 60 and over who still cling to the old Caddy.

My mother in law who like the image, see above.

The fearful group of uninformed drivers that do not understand RWD works in snow too and they will not end up in a ditch.

And as Caddys go they are cheap as hell. Sorry I should say priced very well. Lets face it it is a big car that is not much more than a CTS and lower than a STS. Price is king and that is why most of the abouve buy this car.

Caddy need to just wory about meeting BMW and Benz and if they can get the cars where they compete they will do fine in time. Changing a companys rep has to be earned and it does not happen with one car in a short time.

The big problem is FWD over 35K is a hard sell and a very limited market for most cars. The DTS has an advantage as it is used by many companys and does not have to depned just on public sales. It low price makes it prime for company use and retired people. Just watch the Sinefeld episode where he buys his dad a Fleetwood. The retirement area went wild.

As for AWD, it would be nice to have but the future does not live or die on AWD. RWD sales vs AWD sales can't be less than 50 to 1. I live in the snow belt of the great lakes and I see plenty of new RWD cars and only a AWD once in a while.

Caddy needs to trnas form the STS as it has the CTS. Get a new SRX in the works and find out why few are buying it now and fix it. They need to sell the hell out of the CTS. and they need to address the DTS to make it their flag ship and let the Lucerne take up the FWD DTS market.

If they can do a small Caddy right to compete with the entry level Benz and BMW then go for it but no BLS as it is not the image Caddy needs in this country. Badge engineering is a bad thing for Caddy outside the trucks.

GM needs to address the G and decide if they are going to go RWD or FWD. This car need to be different than the Malibu and Aura. RWD would make it differant and the AWD Holden drive train would give it options that Chevy won't offer. Pontiac as I have said needs to be a special car for special people. It needs to be more than a fancy Chevy. The next G6 will be their most important car at Pontiac.

The most importnat cars to GM are the future Cobalt and Malibu as they will be the volume cars that have to make a profit.

Edited March 15, 2007 by hyperv6

[Oracle of Delphi]

And Zeta was dead once too, remember?

[ZL-1]

And Zeta was dead once too, remember?

Yeah, could be. But I'm keeping a "seeing is believing" attitude towards these Alphas...

[gm4life]

So even if a 1/3 of then go to fleets, that is one more car sold. I just think a FWD car in the snow is still better. I hardly consider myself uninformed. I take some serious issue with that. Keep it FWD simple.

[ellives]

So even if a 1/3 of then go to fleets, that is one more car sold. I just think a FWD car in the snow is still better. I hardly consider myself uninformed. I take some serious issue with that. Keep it FWD simple.

You ARE uninformed if you haven't driven a RWD car with traction control. This is the big differentiator from 20 years ago.

Not sure what "Keep it FWD simple" means. FWD automobiles are anything but simple compared to their RWD counterparts.

Selling to fleets is only a volume game. They don't make any money so don't help GM's financial situation particular when they make up major percentages of their sales. These sales will fill up factories which is fine when the need to do so is short term. It is not a long term solution to lack of demand.

[CaddyXLR-V]

So even if a 1/3 of then go to fleets, that is one more car sold. I just think a FWD car in the snow is still better. I hardly consider myself uninformed. I take some serious issue with that. Keep it FWD simple.

Instead of thinking in terms of sales, which I assume most go to the older set, or fleets, why not think in terms of prestige? Why not ask yourself why probably 90% of cars sold at prices above $40k have either RWD or AWD? The reason the DTS sells, is not because it is FWD, but because it is a full size luxury car for $50k. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't luxury supposed to charge a premium? All the other car makers can get $70k+ for their full size luxury cars.

The DTS should be a Buick, not a Cadillac, and Cadillac should have a TRUE luxury competitor, not a discount luxury competitor.

[ellives]

Instead of thinking in terms of sales, which I assume most go to the older set, or fleets, why not think in terms of prestige? Why not ask yourself why probably 90% of cars sold at prices above $40k have either RWD or AWD? The reason the DTS sells, is not because it is FWD, but because it is a full size luxury car for $50k. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't luxury supposed to charge a premium? All the other car makers can get $70k+ for their full size luxury cars.

The DTS should be a Buick, not a Cadillac, and Cadillac should have a TRUE luxury competitor, not a discount luxury competitor.

Here here.