OK, this REALLY pissed me off.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Daimler-Benz: Future Takeover Target

I was reading yet another article about the Chrysler sale on TCC and this is what it said: [look at the big, bold part]

Teams from two different investment firms, Cerberus and Blackstone, showed up in Auburn Hills last week to take a peek at the Chrysler Group's inner workings, insiders have confirmed.

Frank Stronach, Magna chairman, told the Toronto Globe and Mail that his company is looking at inside information on Chrysler after DaimlerChrysler's Dieter Zetsche put it up for sale.

"Where it will go, nobody can predict,'' Stronach told the paper. "Our predicament will be we do not want to compete with our customers,'' Stronach said. Twenty-four percent of Magna's revenue comes from Chrysler but the company also is a major supplier to GM and is now trying to increase sales to Asian and Asian-American carmakers such as Toyota. There is no such thing. It's not like Toyota was born in the USA to Asian parents.

DaimlerChrysler's representatives reportedly have coughed up plenty of inside information to satisfy the tire kickers, offering investment banks a close look at the inner workings of its erstwhile partner, the Mercedes-Benz Group.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/...173.A12045.html

Edited March 12, 2007 by vrazzhledazzle

[ocnblu]

I really hope the writer's intent was to mock Toyota, not incorrectly nationalize them.

[Variance]

Well, it's truer than calling them just "American".

[vrazzhledazzle]

Yeah, but why is Toyota in a different category.. I mean, first the article talks about Asian carmakers and then they put Toyota in a whole new category. They're not Asian, they're 'Asian-American' my ass.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Yeah, but why is Toyota in a different category.. I mean, first the article talks about Asian carmakers and then they put Toyota in a whole new category. They're not Asian, they're 'Asian-American' my ass.

maybe they are just be implying the North American transplants that buy parts.

Thats just the beauty of the English language. Example from recent memory.

"Artificial and Natural Maple Falvors" Are the Maple flavors natural or are they artificial and natural.

Edited March 12, 2007 by Mr.Krinkle

[Solar Max]

The "Asian-American" reference is just more proof that Toyota's drive to be seen as more American than apple pie is working beautifully. Mind you the press writes what they THINK the public wants to read, so the writer's choice of words actually makes sense in the context of this article.

Are they Asian? Of course. Are they American? Of course not. But to the woman with 2 kids who just bought a Corolla because her friends told her to, it's nice to know in her own mind that she bought a car from a nice American car company like Toyota. So she thinks.

Toyota is very good at these little mind games, and almost always have been.

[balthazar]

Well, it's truer than calling them just "American".

But it's falser than calling them 'asian', which..... is what they are.

"Asian-American" is a complete farse.

[Mr.Krinkle]

But it's falser than calling them 'asian', which..... is what they are.

"Asian-American" is a complete farse.

Now, does this look like the type of person who would try and intentionally mislead you?

:AH-HA_wink:

btw, thats Jim Press of Toyota NA.

[regfootball]

he looks like a GWB replica, and is just as clueless.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

George Dub-ya meets Pat Robinson.

Moron + Moron = Dip$h!

[Z-06]

George Dub-ya meets Pat Robinson.

Moron + Moron = Dip$h!

:rotflmao:

[the_yellow_dart]

George Dub-ya meets Pat Robinson.

Moron + Moron = Dip$h!

Thanks. I needed that laugh.

[prototype66]

George Dub-ya meets Pat Robinson.

Moron + Moron = Dip$h!

Thanks, I needed that! rotflmas

[erod45]

Daimler-Benz: Future Takeover Target

I was reading yet another article about the Chrysler sale on TCC and this is what it said: [look at the big, bold part]

Teams from two different investment firms, Cerberus and Blackstone, showed up in Auburn Hills last week to take a peek at the Chrysler Group's inner workings, insiders have confirmed.

Frank Stronach, Magna chairman, told the Toronto Globe and Mail that his company is looking at inside information on Chrysler after DaimlerChrysler's Dieter Zetsche put it up for sale.

"Where it will go, nobody can predict,'' Stronach told the paper. "Our predicament will be we do not want to compete with our customers,'' Stronach said. Twenty-four percent of Magna's revenue comes from Chrysler but the company also is a major supplier to GM and is now trying to increase sales to Asian and Asian-American carmakers such as Toyota. There is no such thing. It's not like Toyota was born in the USA to Asian parents.

DaimlerChrysler's representatives reportedly have coughed up plenty of inside information to satisfy the tire kickers, offering investment banks a close look at the inner workings of its erstwhile partner, the Mercedes-Benz Group.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_News/...173.A12045.html

I can see some truth to that statement. Even though Toyota is a Japanese company, they do make their cars here now in addition to designing them here. The new Tundra is a classic example. It is designed AND built here without any input from the head honchos in Japan. That said, I would think that term does apply. Just my unbiased logic to the issue.

[Intrepidation]

I can see some truth to that statement. Even though Toyota is a Japanese company, they do make their cars here now in addition to designing them here. The new Tundra is a classic example. It is designed AND built here without any input from the head honchos in Japan. That said, I would think that term does apply. Just my unbiased logic to the issue.

They are not Asian American...because all the profits go back to Japan...and guess where that is? Hint: not America.

I understand your logic though, but still...it's a Japanese company and no amount of media or PR BS will change that.

[Intrepidation]

George Dub-ya meets Pat Robinson.

Moron + Moron = Dip$h!

[BrewSwillis]

The new Tundra is a classic example. It is designed AND built here without any input from the head honchos in Japan.

[CARBIZ]

I used to get crazy over this kind of stuff, but it is becoming so commonplace now that I would go through an entire bottle of valium in a week if I had apoploxy over every single infraction of the Toyota spin machine.

Magna and others are merely positioning themselves to pucker up to Japan INc when (no longer if) Detroit goes down for the count. Simply good business sense for Magna. Sadly, however, it is only hastening Detroit's demise as the suppliers and others head for the lifeboats.

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah... Toyota is about as American as the Mitshubishi Zero scap

metal that's sitting at the bottom of Pearl Harbor.

Toyota is a lot like Disco, it peeked in the 1970s and now in 2007

it's in poor taste and out of style. Never had any substance either.

[Satty]

Unlike Gloria Gaynor, Toyota is still making money, no amount of delusion will change that.

[CARBIZ]

Hey, you leave disco alone....them's fighting words! Somebody bought Saturday Night Fever! It was the best selling album up to that point! Of course nobody will admit that now! LOL

[Windy-57]

Actually, Toyota is a global company. So is GM, so if Ford, so is DCX, so is Honda, etc., etc. and they all compete on a global scale.

And, I hate to be the unpopular one, but here in the U.S. Toyota is becoming more domesticated. Think about it, what designates a company's heritage?

HQ Location - Yes, Toyota's HQ is in Japan and the profits go back there, but much of those profits come right back in terms of investment, not to mention that plenty of tax dollars stay here as well. And I don't think the workers at San Antonio, Evansville or Georgetown give a damn where the HQ is so long as they can put food on the table for their families.

Manufacturing Base - Yes, GM, Ford and DCX each have more facilities in the US than Toyota, but this will begin to level out going forward with Toyota building more here and each of the Big 3 closing facilities.

Product Offerings - Sure GM, Ford and DCX still have the advantage in heartland vehicles such as trucks and SUVs, but I think it's hard to argue that Toyota doesn't offer American vehicles when they sell more Camrys and Corollas here than any other given domestic car. Not to mention, Lexus is the top-selling luxury brand in the States.

Listen, I'm not trying to rain on the parade; my point is, these are global companies that need to operate on a global level. GM can't survive on the NA market alone, they need to continue to (and have been) making gains in non-domestic markets. They are making efforts in Asia to be seen as a more Asian company and in Europe as a more European company. The examples abound (GMDAT was created in order for GM to be seen as more Asian and what do you think is the point of offering a BLS wagon or CTS diesel in Europe?).

So, naturally through these efforts (and others), GM is being seen as more European in Europe and Asian in Asia. But then you can't deny that Toyota is being seen as more American in the U.S. It's dangerous to scoff at this and deny it. GM and the other American automakers have to see this as a real issue and deal with it. In fact, GM is already dealing with it. Think about their new ad campaigns that emphasize their heritage (Showing the progression of old Cadillac's into the new ones, "This is our country, this is our truck", and the Super Bowl ad that incorporated a bunch of songs using GM's namebrands from different genres and different generations). This is the type of American that Toyota can never be and they know it. Why do you think they fear an American backlash if they take the top global spot from GM? But they certainly can be Asian-American.

[Intrepidation]

Actually, Toyota is a global company. So is GM, so if Ford, so is DCX, so is Honda, etc., etc. and they all compete on a global scale.

And, I hate to be the unpopular one, but here in the U.S. Toyota is becoming more domesticated. Think about it, what designates a company's heritage?

HQ Location - Yes, Toyota's HQ is in Japan and the profits go back there, but much of those profits come right back in terms of investment, not to mention that plenty of tax dollars stay here as well. And I don't think the workers at San Antonio, Evansville or Georgetown give a damn where the HQ is so long as they can put food on the table for their families.

Manufacturing Base - Yes, GM, Ford and DCX each have more facilities in the US than Toyota, but this will begin to level out going forward with Toyota building more here and each of the Big 3 closing facilities.

Product Offerings - Sure GM, Ford and DCX still have the advantage in heartland vehicles such as trucks and SUVs, but I think it's hard to argue that Toyota doesn't offer American vehicles when they sell more Camrys and Corollas here than any other given domestic car. Not to mention, Lexus is the top-selling luxury brand in the States.

Listen, I'm not trying to rain on the parade; my point is, these are global companies that need to operate on a global level. GM can't survive on the NA market alone, they need to continue to (and have been) making gains in non-domestic markets. They are making efforts in Asia to be seen as a more Asian company and in Europe as a more European company. The examples abound (GMDAT was created in order for GM to be seen as more Asian and what do you think is the point of offering a BLS wagon or CTS diesel in Europe?).

So, naturally through these efforts (and others), GM is being seen as more European in Europe and Asian in Asia. But then you can't deny that Toyota is being seen as more American in the U.S. It's dangerous to scoff at this and deny it. GM and the other American automakers have to see this as a real issue and deal with it. In fact, GM is already dealing with it. Think about their new ad campaigns that emphasize their heritage (Showing the progression of old Cadillac's into the new ones, "This is our country, this is our truck", and the Super Bowl ad that incorporated a bunch of songs using GM's namebrands from different genres and different generations). This is the type of American that Toyota can never be and they know it. Why do you think they fear an American backlash if they take the top global spot from GM? But they certainly can be Asian-American.

It would take GM, Ford or Chrysler going under and all of their plants closing for Toyota to come anywhere near the number of American employees. Also, if you want to get into what car is more American (I'm not gonna dig out the exact numbers but hjere's a rough estimate), average Domestic car is built with about 70% American parts, while the AVerage Foreign car (evenw hen built in America) is less than 40%.

People don't buy Camries because they're American, they by them because for so long, they were better than the Domestic offerings (for the most part). That has changed however, but people still percieve the Camry as superior in quality...it has little to do with being American or not.

Yes they are global companies, but that doesn't change where they originate from and where teh money goes. Speaking of which, while Toyota builds a plant here in there to "invest" in America, the Big 3 continually invest millions to upgrade their plants.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Dodgefan

[vrazzhledazzle]

Unlike Gloria Gaynor, Toyota is still making money, no amount of delusion will change that.

How does that have anything to do with lying about what Toyota is?

[CARBIZ]

And you are missing the bigger point about these global companies: Japan does not participate in the global economy. They block and control every foreign national that wants to build, own or sell anything in their country. Look at how long it took Toys R Us to get into Japan. How harmful can a toy retailer be?

Why is Japan the only major market in the world where nobody other than domestics sell anything of any consequence? You can buy GMs in Germany, India, Australia, Chile and China, but in Japan?

Toyota, Honda, etc. have had it very easy on their home turf for decades.

[Windy-57]

It would take GM, Ford or Chrysler going under and all of their plants closing for Toyota to come anywhere near the number of American employees. Also, if you want to get into what car is more American (I'm not gonna dig out the exact numbers but hjere's a rough estimate), average Domestic car is built with about 70% American parts, while the AVerage Foreign car (evenw hen built in America) is less than 40%.

People don't buy Camries because they're American, they by them because for so long, they were better than the Domestic offerings (for the most part). That has changed however, but people still percieve the Camry as superior in quality...it has little to do with being American or not.

Yes they are global companies, but that doesn't change where they originate from and where teh money goes. Speaking of which, while Toyota builds a plant here in there to "invest" in America, the Big 3 continually invest millions to upgrade their plants.

Good points. I will agree that Toyota can never be American, but they can be perceived as less foreign than other manufacturers such as Hyundai, Honda and the upcoming entrants from China. And, they can do so to a point that transcends them to not being completely foreign, but rather a hybrid ex. Asian-American.

To answer your points:

1. This is part of why I said that Toyota could never truly be American. Still, Toyota has more plants in the US than any other non-Big 3 member. And, on a larger scale (outside of the auto industry) they contribute big numbers of employment and investment to the US. And I'll agree, component contents count, but with more global sharing coming from GM and more domesticated production from Toyota, I would look for that gap to narrow in the future.

2. Precisely my point. In terms of the car market, Toyota has built brand equity that resonates with American buyers by providing them cars that have the attributes they desire most (one of which is quality). They understand the American consumer better and have offered products that more closely resemble what the American consumer wants. Or to put it another way, Toyota has been selling cars that are "more American" over the past X number of years than any member of the Big 3 and the sales volumes are a reflection of that.

3. No, it doesn't change where they originated, but the whole point of building brand images in different regions is to assimilate yourself into that region. If you're saying that you can never change the perception of your brand because of where it originated, I would disagree and think there are a number of historical examples that would support my view. And, I'll agree that each of the Big 3 invest a whole lot more into the US by way of retooling and such than Toyota does in all its activities, but do you think that message is getting out and resonating with the American people? I've heard quite a different story being told about the auto industry over the last few years.

It's important to understand that I'm not a rice blower (or I know some of you like the term import humper). I love GM and the new products they're building. I love the business with which they've founded their turnaround. And it's because I love them that I point this stuff out. Becuase they have to realize that a danger of becoming a more globally based company while a strong rival is pushing in on your home territory is that you'll lose some of the identity that you're founded in while the competitor assimilates some of that identity into their brand image. The good news is that GM seems to understand this and has adjusted their product plans and marketing strategies accrodingly. The bad news is that Ford doesn't seem to get it and Chrysler only half gets it. That is why I don't have a lot of faith in them right now.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Actually, Toyota is a global company. So is GM, so if Ford, so is DCX, so is Honda, etc., etc. and they all compete on a global scale.

And, I hate to be the unpopular one, but here in the U.S. Toyota is becoming more domesticated. Think about it, what designates a company's heritage?

HQ Location - Yes, Toyota's HQ is in Japan and the profits go back there, but much of those profits come right back in terms of investment, not to mention that plenty of tax dollars stay here as well. And I don't think the workers at San Antonio, Evansville or Georgetown give a damn where the HQ is so long as they can put food on the table for their families.

Manufacturing Base - Yes, GM, Ford and DCX each have more facilities in the US than Toyota, but this will begin to level out going forward with Toyota building more here and each of the Big 3 closing facilities.

Product Offerings - Sure GM, Ford and DCX still have the advantage in heartland vehicles such as trucks and SUVs, but I think it's hard to argue that Toyota doesn't offer American vehicles when they sell more Camrys and Corollas here than any other given domestic car. Not to mention, Lexus is the top-selling luxury brand in the States.

Listen, I'm not trying to rain on the parade; my point is, these are global companies that need to operate on a global level. GM can't survive on the NA market alone, they need to continue to (and have been) making gains in non-domestic markets. They are making efforts in Asia to be seen as a more Asian company and in Europe as a more European company. The examples abound (GMDAT was created in order for GM to be seen as more Asian and what do you think is the point of offering a BLS wagon or CTS diesel in Europe?).

So, naturally through these efforts (and others), GM is being seen as more European in Europe and Asian in Asia. But then you can't deny that Toyota is being seen as more American in the U.S. It's dangerous to scoff at this and deny it. GM and the other American automakers have to see this as a real issue and deal with it. In fact, GM is already dealing with it. Think about their new ad campaigns that emphasize their heritage (Showing the progression of old Cadillac's into the new ones, "This is our country, this is our truck", and the Super Bowl ad that incorporated a bunch of songs using GM's namebrands from different genres and different generations). This is the type of American that Toyota can never be and they know it. Why do you think they fear an American backlash if they take the top global spot from GM? But they certainly can be Asian-American.

Then call them Global for all I care... why would they call them Asian-America. And what is this 'toyota is less foreign than other foreign companies' bull$h!. They are just a bigger company.

Tax money stays in the US? Toyota gets a $400 million dollar tax break from state government to build their plants in their state!! Japan is the one who gets 90% of the benefits..US/Europe get like 10%....and Toyota is worth 189 billion to Japan's economy.

[balthazar]

'Windy-57'= >>"...Toyota... can be perceived as less foreign than other manufacturers such as Hyundai, Honda and the upcoming entrants from China. And, they can do so to a point that transcends them to not being completely foreign, but rather a hybrid ex. Asian-American."<<

>>"They understand the American consumer better and have offered products that more closely resemble what the American consumer wants. Or to put it another way, Toyota has been selling cars that are "more American" over the past X number of years than any member of the Big 3 and the sales volumes are a reflection of that."<<

You have been over-exposed to what the media has erroneously fabricated over recent years. A company's 'nationality' is based on one singular fact- where it is legally orgainized. toyota is a japanese company, and always will be until the day it is sold to an investor residing or organized in another country. It does not become 'less japanese' because it is somehow, magically becoming 'more American'.

I suppose a debate could be initiated if and when a foreign company in a limited industry outsold it's domestic competition (hasn't happened), out-sourced it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), out-invested it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), out-employeed it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), and out-contributed to local, state & federal governments & economies vs. it's domestic competition (not even remotely close). Only then could even a legitimate discussion on said company being 'more American" could take place, tho such a discussion would quickly collapse under the burden of fact.

This is a black & white issue, not a thousand-shades-of-grey issue.

[Camino LS6]

'Windy-57'= >>"...Toyota... can be perceived as less foreign than other manufacturers such as Hyundai, Honda and the upcoming entrants from China. And, they can do so to a point that transcends them to not being completely foreign, but rather a hybrid ex. Asian-American."<<

>>"They understand the American consumer better and have offered products that more closely resemble what the American consumer wants. Or to put it another way, Toyota has been selling cars that are "more American" over the past X number of years than any member of the Big 3 and the sales volumes are a reflection of that."<<

You have been over-exposed to what the media has erroneously fabricated over recent years. A company's 'nationality' is based on one singular fact- where it is legally orgainized. toyota is a japanese company, and always will be until the day it is sold to an investor residing or organized in another country. It does not become 'less japanese' because it is somehow, magically becoming 'more American'.

I suppose a debate could be initiated if and when a foreign company in a limited industry outsold it's domestic competition (hasn't happened), out-sourced it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), out-invested it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), out-employeed it's domestic competition (not even remotely close), and out-contributed to local, state & federal governments & economies vs. it's domestic competition (not even remotely close). Only then could even a legitimate discussion on said company being 'more American" could take place, tho such a discussion would quickly collapse under the burden of fact.

This is a black & white issue, not a thousand-shades-of-grey issue.

That bears repeating.