Fate of Imperial rests on CAW shoulders

[Flybrian]

Chrysler Imperial Gets Royal Flush From CAW Plant
By Eric Mayne
Link to Full Article @ WardsAuto.com, Mar 2, 2007 9:20 AM

Workers at Chrysler Group’s assembly plant in Brampton, ON, Canada, have thrown a monkey wrench into the embattled auto maker’s long-term product plans.

Brampton workers rejected a company proposal that asked them to forfeit C$134 ($115) per week in return for the contract to build a vehicle, dubbed ‘Product X’ for purposes of the vote.

However, Ward’s learns the vehicle is the contentious Chrysler Imperial sedan, and production is targeted for 2010.

The wages in question represent extra pay negotiated by the Canadian Auto Workers union as compensation for concessions such as shortened break times, which were necessary to accommodate the plant’s transition to three 8-hour shifts in 2005. Presently, Brampton workers perform eight hours of labor, but they are paid for eight hours and 48 minutes.

Had they approved the deal, as recommended by CAW leaders, Brampton workers also would have ensured their plant would remain on a 3-shift production schedule past 2009.

The Feb. 19 vote, decided by a margin of 1,464 to 1,157, leaves Chrysler’s proposal “dead in the water,” warns Jerry Dias, national CAW representative at the Brampton plant.

This represents a setback for Chrysler, but a spokesman says it does not affect the product cadence set out in the recently unveiled “Recovery and Transformation Plan,” which promises 20 new and 13 refreshed vehicles through 2009.

However, Chrysler is mum about the prospect of reviving the proposal, and about plans for building the Imperial, which debuted last year as a concept car at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

“Is it unfortunate? You’d better believe it,” says Bob Chernicki, assistant to CAW President Buzz Hargrove. “Is it the wrong way to do it? Absolutely. We are disappointed in the decision. But hey, that’s democracy. And that’s what works in our union.”

Of Chrysler, Chernicki says: “We’re waiting for their reaction.”

The union is willing to continue discussing the matter, he adds, but no talks are scheduled.

A Chrysler spokesman offers no hints about the auto maker’s next move, saying only that the two sides meet regularly on various issues.

Meanwhile, analysts are perplexed by the notion of the Imperial joining Chrysler’s lineup.

“I don’t know of any automotive journalist who likes it,” says Joe Phillippi of AutoTrends Inc. “I think it’s a little over-the-top.”

Powered by a 5.7L Hemi V-8, the Imperial concept is about 17 ins. (43.2 cm) longer than its LX platform-mate, the Chrysler 300 sedan. Featuring a bold grille that recalls Rolls Royce, it also is about 6 ins. (15.2 cm) taller than the 300.

The 300 shares Chrysler’s LX platform with the Dodge Charger sedan and Dodge Magnum cross/utility vehicle – all of which are assembled at Brampton. However, according to Ward’s data, those vehicles migrate to the next-generation LY platform in model-year ’10.

In addition, the LY platform will support the ’09 Dodge Challenger, set for a 2008 production launch in Brampton. This suggests the Imperial also will be based on LY, says Stephanie Brinley, an analyst with AutoPacific Inc.

Like Phillippi, Brinley questions whether there is room in the Chrysler showroom for an upscale vehicle such as the Imperial.

“The 300 projects a nice price/value equation,” she says of the acclaimed sedan, which starts at $23,880.

However, that car tops out at $42,520 for a performance-oriented SRT version. Assuming the Imperial is positioned above the 300, “the premium for an Imperial seems a little big,” Brinley adds.

The Imperial would lend some cachet to the Chrysler brand, but in terms of a business case, Brinley also wonders about sales projections. “Volume is always where the question is,” she says. “What do they really expect?”

Chrysler is not saying, but Chernicki has an idea.

“Unless this product comes on board, we don’t have the third shift,” he tells Ward’s. “They’ve said that to us pretty clearly. Even with the products they’re building today, (plus) the Challenger, you can’t sustain a third shift.”

According to Ward’s data, Brampton built slightly more than 276,000 vehicles in 2006 – a 3.1% hike over 2005’s total of 267,883.

[Dragon]

ya, I really can't see the union giving up money now for potential money later seeing as there might not be a later for Brampton and Chrysler

[Drew Dowdell]

A sedan as big as a Tahoe... yeah, that'll sell great.

[DetroitNut90]

I hope the Imperial never sees the green light...it's particularly foul.

[FAPTurbo]

Even their own employees think it's a stupid vehicle!

What a great response!

[tmp]

I saw that ungainly lump at this years LA Auto show. Anything that the union can do to help that turd from wearing the battered-but-proud Imperial name is in my opinion a good thing.

[A Horse With No Name]

Thinking like this is probably why I'll never own another Chrysler vehicle. Ever.

Also why I am anti-union.

I hope the shut the Goddamn plant down.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

...and Chrysler needs to seriously crush the prototype before anyone else gets any stupid ideas.

Chris

[vrazzhledazzle]

I wouldn't mind if it is built...it would just be our (american) Rolls or Bentley

But not as a Chrysler... if you bring back the Imperiar brand then yes, built it. But starting a brand isn't something Chrysler has time or resources to do right now.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I really can't see the logic behind the (hideous) Imperial.... I mean, wouldn't that set Chrysler up in MB territory and why would anyone in their right mind buy an MB ovr a better and cheaper Chrysler. (I know, the name MB carries a lot of weight, but it's becoming tarnished with poor quality and the introduction of Maybach didn't help it's "premium" status that much)

I think, the only reason the Imperial is even on the table is 1) To maximize volume on the LY platform and up profits and 2) To keep the UAW/CAW working instead of sitting on their asses collecting a free check.

[Flybrian]

This is a disgrace to the Imperial name, but really actually appropriate as a Chrysler Imperial just like the 1990 model.

[Intrepidation]

I'd rather see the money they saved by not building investing in better interiors...

or they could build this instead:

[MyerShift]

I agree. Screw this Imperial concept, it is truly revolting.

Such money could be used to better the appearances and interiors of other models (Sebring, anyone?) or to build stunning cars again like the Firepower, Airflite, and others.

Or relaunch Plymouth!

[AxelTheRed]

I agree. Screw this Imperial concept, it is truly revolting.

Such money could be used to better the appearances and interiors of other models (Sebring, anyone?) or to build stunning cars again like the Firepower, Airflite, and others.

Or relaunch Plymouth!

I agree that it would be nice for Chrysler to relaunch Plymouth, but they can't afford to spend that money on a fourth brand right now, especially one that got as redundat as Plymouth did in its last few years.

[G. David Felt]

I agree that it would be nice for Chrysler to relaunch Plymouth, but they can't afford to spend that money on a fourth brand right now, especially one that got as redundat as Plymouth did in its last few years.

Please Launching Plymouth would be the stupidest move the company could do. There is already way to many auto choices and with profits being needed to justify a vehicle, I say it would be better to enhance current portfolios than launch or even think about brining back an old name plate that is pretty much useless. Let the old dog lay dead guys.

The current 3, Jeep, Dodge and Chrysler name plates is more then enough for this market and they can make a proper profit margin with these brands if they put out proper and correct product that people want to buy. They will get there I think!

[Dragon]

personally, I like the look and the idea, but like others have said, I dont' think its the right time, or even the right brand. Something like that, though a lot more refined I bet might make for a good baby Maybach

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

Who said it would look like that concept? They had that Chrysler Nassau which hints at the next 300.

It if is done right, and comes loaded and with few options, they might have something. They are planning on sharing GM platforms if Mercedes Benz keeps Chrysler. So that car would be a zeta vehicle if it did not us the LY. Anything is possible.

[sciguy_0504]

Releasing the Imperial as we have all seen it would be hammering another nail in Chrysler's coffin.

[BrewSwillis]

I'll take one with this hood ornament:

I think the car is hot. They only need to work on the back end. If you can get one for around $50K, they will sell like mad.

You people don't get it. Chrysler is really getting into flex-manufacturing. They can, and probably will, build 5 different models on the same line in Brampton. They don't all have to be mega high volume, but they do have to make a profit......and that will happen with a car like the Imperial.

[Cory Wolfe]

It's ugly. No one likes an ugly car that's as big as an SUV.

[the_yellow_dart]

It's ugly. No one likes an ugly car that's as big as an SUV.

Isn't that what Bentley is?

[Cory Wolfe]

Bentley's aren't ugly.

[the_yellow_dart]

Bentley's aren't ugly.

I think they're about as ugly as this concept...

Bentley is the first thing I think of when I see it.

Neither this concept nor Bentleys strike me as ugly, but neither appeal to me either...

[Drew Dowdell]

Isn't that what Bentley is?

Rolls

[ponchoman49]

I doubt there will even be a 2010 Chrysler!

[Viperfan07]

I'll take one with this hood ornament:

They only need to work on the back end.

Wow the car is bigger than I thought. Or it might just be her that makes it look bigger lol. I agree, the rear is horrific. Keep the horizontal tail lamps but don't "boat tail" the trunk. The grille can be tweeked and the rear quarter panels can withstand a lil bit of change. I like it although it does seem trucky. Other than that build it.

[lanky9172]

I don't understand why some of you think this is such an ugly car. I saw it at an auto show and thought the details were beautiful, but then again, I'm also 6'5" so it's more in proportion to me. But I don't see any ugly features; it seems to have borrowed classic details. I can't understand this ugly argument unless some are equating large with ugly, which really doesn't make sense. If someone who feels this is ugly would talk about the features and details that make the car ugly, maybe then I can have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

peace and chicken grease,

-VAD-

[Windy-57]

I don't understand why some of you think this is such an ugly car. I saw it at an auto show and thought the details were beautiful, but then again, I'm also 6'5" so it's more in proportion to me. But I don't see any ugly features; it seems to have borrowed classic details. I can't understand this ugly argument unless some are equating large with ugly, which really doesn't make sense. If someone who feels this is ugly would talk about the features and details that make the car ugly, maybe then I can have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

peace and chicken grease,

-VAD-

I actually agree with you on this. Some things aren't the best looking, but I think this would be a solid evolutionary step in what a large American sedan could be. The issue I have with the Imperial concept is that it would steal too much of the 300's thunder.

[AxelTheRed]

Holy Jesus that car is huge! I'm one of the few who actually like the concept, but if it doesn't get built, its not a big loss really. Chrysler doesn't have the cash to pull it off right now.

Besides, a car that big would only make the media complain about how American cars are such gas guzzlers. I'm willing to bet the Imperial, if built, would get gas mileage similar to a truck.

[BrewSwillis]

I don't understand why some of you think this is such an ugly car. I saw it at an auto show and thought the details were beautiful, but then again, I'm also 6'5" so it's more in proportion to me. But I don't see any ugly features; it seems to have borrowed classic details. I can't understand this ugly argument unless some are equating large with ugly, which really doesn't make sense. If someone who feels this is ugly would talk about the features and details that make the car ugly, maybe then I can have a better understanding of where you are coming from.

peace and chicken grease,

-VAD-

Dude, don't try and bring logic and reason into the equation when people are just calling vehicles "ugly", "fugly", "f---in ugly", etc. It might make them think.

[Flybrian]

The grille is ugly, the detailing is ugly and derivative, it borrows nothing from the attractive Imperials of the past, its too narrow for its height (like the Phantom), and its badged as a Chrysler.

[AM6_Cutlass]

I like the idea a Chrysler sedan that is larger than the 300, but I HATE the styling of the concept. Hopefully they will come up with something new in the styling department if they build it.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Wow, you guys think of Bently, I think of an earlier product of theirs! It was a push button automatic!

Behold the Imperial's ancestor the mighty Plymouth Valiant. They are both butt ugly!

Edited March 9, 2007 by Pontiac-Custom-S

[Robert Hall]

I saw this concept in person..it's huge. I like the rear alot more than the front. I think if the whole car were sectioned about 6 inches from the body below the greenhouse, it would look a lot better...

Chrysler at one time did some great (IMHO) looking huge cars, like the massive '69-73 Imperials, New Yorkers, etc with 'fuselage' styling that was the high point of the 'lower, longer, wider' mantra...

[BrewSwillis]

The grille is ugly, the detailing is ugly and derivative, it borrows nothing from the attractive Imperials of the past, its too narrow for its height (like the Phantom), and its badged as a Chrysler.

The grille was inspired by the grille of the '39:

Its horizontal bars resemble decorative elements found on the 1939 Custom Imperial Sedan

From what you've all seen, believe me, photography is not kind to what is a truly beautiful automobile. Whereas most pics show the grille being rather flat, it actually curves softly side-to-side and and over the top.

Though we see plenty of Rolls-Royce influence in the Imperial Concept, Chrysler says it looked into its own back catalog for inspiration. Aiming to create a provocative luxury automobile, the company cites the Imperials of the 1930s, 1950s, and 1960s as models of elegance, as well as previous Chrysler concept cars such as the d’Elegance, Falcon, Chronos, and Firepower.

I think it most closely resembles the D'Elegance and Chronos concepts in body shape, except more upright with sharper creases as their current design direction dictates:

The car can't be super wide, because it's based on a current, real, platform.

So, you basically just restated that everything was ugly, but still didn't say why......except for saying that you thought it was too tall, and that it had a Chrysler badge.

[Intrepidation]

What I like least about the concept is the back.

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I hope that the Imperial just slips through Chrysler's fingers. I, for one, would not shell out $50,000 grand or more for a sedan that looks like a Mack truck.

Build the Chronos instead. Work with it to make it a little less dated and sell it for the right price. Let it take the position of the current 300C in the line-up. Then shift the 'C down a notch, eliminate the bottom-feeder 300 cars and make the Touring the base 300. The Limited stays pretty much the same -- it's there to bridge the gap between the base 300 (which would be similar to the current Touring) and the 300C.

So, Chrysler's top end sedans would go:

300 → 300 Limited → 300C → Chronos.

It just makes sense. The Chronos serves as a halo not only for the entire Chrysler line, but for the 300 line as well.

[lanky9172]

Wow, you guys think of Bently, I think of an earlier product of theirs! It was a push button automatic!

Behold the Imperial's ancestor the mighty Plymouth Valiant. They are both butt ugly!

The only similarities I see between the two, aside from an obvious car shape, is MAYBE the grill which are just a tad bit similar and round headlights. I hope this was a comparison made in jest. Again, I like the Imperial and think that the details are nice. Although earlier someone quoted me about the "details" and relating it to other Chryslers, I equated the details with some of the more historic British cars, as was pointed out earlier, Rolls and Bentley.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

I'd like to see Imperial come back, rather as a Cadillac-BMW-style full-line luxury marque, or at least a Chronos/Airflite-styled sedan that looks far better than this, which should be scrubbed and quickly forgotten.

[enzl]

I'd like to see Imperial come back, rather as a Cadillac-BMW-style full-line luxury marque, or at least a Chronos/Airflite-styled sedan that looks far better than this, which should be scrubbed and quickly forgotten.

This Imperial is all wrong. Additionally, I'd sooner see Chrysler get its own line-up in order (suggestions: 300 interior fixes, PT replacement, Pacifica update, distinctive minivan alternatives) than worry about a dead and unlamented marque like Imperial.

To add insult to injury by asking workers to take a paycut to build this monstrosity is absurd. That plant is currently building product that sells more than 20k units/mo. combined....a 300 sedan, Magnum update (as something that's more than a wagon-rod), the Charger & Challenger should easily maintain or improve upon that volume. These are vehicles that are being sold at transaction prices far above their predecessors---are they letting Sebring designers make every decision over there? What a mess!

[Viperfan07]

I don't know. It seems the more I look at it, the better it looks and the more I'd want one. I'd have to see it with smaller wheels though then maybe it'll be less truck like.

[Flybrian]

The Chronos is sexy. The Imperial is not.

[Intrepidation]

The Firepower makes more sense as a halo car. Plus it gives the Viper plant more to do, and would help earn money back on the platform investment of the Viper. That, and it's sexy as hell.

[BrewSwillis]

The Firepower makes more sense as a halo car. Plus it gives the Viper plant more to do, and would help earn money back on the platform investment of the Viper. That, and it's sexy as hell.

Making the Firepower hand built like the Viper, would give it a price tag like the Viper. They don't need two Vipers. For the Firepower to succeed as a V8, it would probably have to cost around $60K. I don't think that price would be possible while being a hand built vehicle.

The Imperial, on the other hand, can be built at the Brampton plant, on a shared platform.

Edited March 10, 2007 by BrewSwillis

[enzl]

Making the Firepower hand built like the Viper, would give it a price tag like the Viper. They don't need two Vipers. For the Firepower to succeed as a V8, it would probably have to cost around $60K. I don't think that price would be possible while being a hand built vehicle.

The Imperial, on the other hand, can be built at the Brampton plant, on a shared platform.

If it's gotta be built at Brampton, there's probably 3/4 other things I'd rather see developed than the Impy....

[Intrepidation]

If it's gotta be built at Brampton, there's probably 3/4 other things I'd rather see developed than the Impy....

Like this maybe....

[Simon C]

I think, the only reason the Imperial is even on the table is 1) To maximize volume on the LY platform and up profits and 2) To keep the UAW/CAW working instead of sitting on their asses collecting a free check.

Ah ... yeah, that's why.

[regfootball]

i saw the imperial at the auto show last weekeend.

What sort of crackpots would consider building this thing? MY GOD, delusional! this thing is a hideous trainwreck!!!

[A Horse With No Name]

i saw the imperial at the auto show last weekeend.

What sort of crackpots would consider building this thing? MY GOD, delusional! this thing is a hideous trainwreck!!!

That hasn't stopped about 2/3 of the vehicles that have gone into production over the last 50 years or so. Why should the Imp be the first?

Chris