Cadillac to Debut GM's Powerful New V6 Clean Diesel

[Drew Dowdell]

What would it be based on?

I would like a CTS diesel as described in the article so that I could have a great looking, great performing car that could run completely on BioDiesel.

Advantages:

1. greater range; I assume they wouldn't change the fuel tank, they almost never do. I can get 360miles out of a tank on the CTS now. 700-800 miles to a tank would be awesome!

2. Not burning fossil fuels; biodiesel doesn't release any new carbon into the atmosphere. My vehicle becomes as close to carbon neutral as one can get.

3. Not burning foreign oil; My partner and 2 of this brothers already served in the middle east. I don't want them to have to return.

4. Longevity of the engine; diesels require a fuel filter change every 50k miles or so and are known to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Fuel filter change costs about as much as an oil change. Hybrids require a battery change every 100k miles or so. Costs = about $2,000. How many 300k mile Pruises are there out there? $6000 in battery changes to do 300k miles? No thanks.

[geozinger]

I would like a CTS diesel as described in the article so that I could have a great looking, great performing car that could run completely on BioDiesel.

Advantages:

1. greater range; I assume they wouldn't change the fuel tank, they almost never do. I can get 360miles out of a tank on the CTS now. 700-800 miles to a tank would be awesome!

2. Not burning fossil fuels; biodiesel doesn't release any new carbon into the atmosphere. My vehicle becomes as close to carbon neutral as one can get.

3. Not burning foreign oil; My partner and 2 of this brothers already served in the middle east. I don't want them to have to return.

4. Longevity of the engine; diesels require a fuel filter change every 50k miles or so and are known to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Fuel filter change costs about as much as an oil change. Hybrids require a battery change every 100k miles or so. Costs = about $2,000. How many 300k mile Pruises are there out there? $6000 in battery changes to do 300k miles? No thanks.

Hey Oldsmoboi,

I'm with you 1000% on the diesel thing, (just make mine a Malibu)(or a Volt). I would say that the jury is out on the actual reliability of the existing hybrid fleet (Toyota and others), only time will TRULY tell. But I hate giving the Prius Anti-Defamation League trolls any kind of ammunition.

Not that they would change my mind, but now we'll have to endure ALL of the "I've got 600,000 miles on my Prius and I didn't need to change my battery" kinds of posts. Outside of the "gee-whiz' factor, the current hybrids leave me a little unimpressed. It seems like a lot of extra components to get a highly disputed mileage result that could be fairly easily obtained with: Clean diesel, or a BAS system or even doing incredibly easy things like keeping your tires inflated and no jack-rabbit starts from traffic signals and all of the other normal conservation methods.

I get sooo tired of that kind of thing... especially on a GM board... I mean really, do the folks on GM board spend THAT much time on Toyota Nation and the like?

[bepperb]

Would a CTS diesel get you into a GM showroom to look at a car you would have otherwise not have considered?

My household fleet consists of a Civic and an Accord, so most of my time is spent over at vtec.net. The talk of the town over there is whether the 08 accord will have a diesel option in the us, which it almost certainly will not. But the level of interest is so great. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would make thier way to a GM dealership to test drive a CTS diesel.

Sooner or later someone (besides volkswagen) will start selling diesels here, maybe for a loss at first, but then for a tidy profit and marketshare gain as reputation and consumer knowledge builds... or maybe as gas prices rise.

GM was building diesels for Honda Europe as little as two years ago. There is no reason they don't have the expertise to do this. The perception of a lot of car buyers, probably not the reality, is that GM isn't even trying... while Honda and Toyota are working overtime to develop hybrid/hydrogen/clean diesel technology. I think the goodwill of GM being first to market with some clean diesel technology would be worth a small loss on a fraction of their cars.

[Drew Dowdell]

I do not trust the Lutz corporate line.

A fully dress Northstar costs GM app. $5,000. So according to the Lutz email response, a V6 diesel would cost GM app. $10,000.

The numbers just do not add up.

[speculation] If the Northstar costs about $5000 and a 2.9 litre diesel cost the same.... perhaps the cost is too much to justify putting in a Malibu, CTS, etc.[/speculation]

Evok, I invite you to shoot me down.

[Drew Dowdell]

Would a CTS diesel get you into a GM showroom to look at a car you would have otherwise not have considered?

In my case it would guarentee that I bought another CTS. I like my current car, but I'm not thrilled enough with the '08 CTS to say for sure I was going to get one. I am considering other options this time around. I was absolutely certain I was going to get a 1st Gen CTS the moment I saw the concept. It was a "gotta have" car for me. A CTS Diesel would be another "gotta have" car.

edit: and with all that torque, I wouldn't need the Avalanche to tow my non-existant boat.

Edited March 12, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[geozinger]

Would a CTS diesel get you into a GM showroom to look at a car you would have otherwise not have considered?

My household fleet consists of a Civic and an Accord, so most of my time is spent over at vtec.net. The talk of the town over there is whether the 08 accord will have a diesel option in the us, which it almost certainly will not. But the level of interest is so great. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would make thier way to a GM dealership to test drive a CTS diesel.

Sooner or later someone (besides volkswagen) will start selling diesels here, maybe for a loss at first, but then for a tidy profit and marketshare gain as reputation and consumer knowledge builds... or maybe as gas prices rise.

GM was building diesels for Honda Europe as little as two years ago. There is no reason they don't have the expertise to do this. The perception of a lot of car buyers, probably not the reality, is that GM isn't even trying... while Honda and Toyota are working overtime to develop hybrid/hydrogen/clean diesel technology. I think the goodwill of GM being first to market with some clean diesel technology would be worth a small loss on a fraction of their cars.

My company partners with another company (that sounds so... lame!) and one of their salesmen drives a VW Golf TDI. He had been buying Buick Centurys and Regals before that (particularly the ones with the 3. but since he drives about 60K miles a year, he would wear them out in 3-4 years. He specifically wanted a diesel car, but didn't like the Mercedes being offered at the time. It wasn't like he couldn't afford it, he just didn't like them.

Plus, it helps when the salesguy shows up in a less expensive car... I know the way I feel when the printing equipment guy shows up in a Chevy or a Mercedes... I'm more inclined to work with the guy with the less expensive car, whether or not it's rational.

Back to the VW. I was not initially impressed as I remember even the VW diesels from 20+ years ago as noisy and stinky (along with all of the other hardware at the time). But he let me drive the little bugger, and I have to say, in normal driving you would not have known the difference. I guess I should point out that it was a TDI and 6-speed, and at first I thought he was pulling my leg, I really thought there was a VR6 under the hood. Until we stopped in a parking lot and he raised the hood...

Ever since then, I've been a closet diesel fan. I would have like to have had one in our current Malibu Maxx, as my wife drives it abouth 40 miles a day. As it is we only use about a gallon and half of gasoline, but with a TDI type of car, it would be (slightly) less than a gallon...

Not much in a day, but after a week, a month, a year - it adds up.

[Drew Dowdell]

I would assume you are correct.

And I agree for the type of driving I do in stop and go I would consider a diesel Cadillac.

But I suspect the real reason we will not get the diesel is emissions and not cost.

It was my impression from Lutz's email that the additional cost was in making the engine emissions compliant. Otherwise, it'd be fine for sale in the states.

[avro206]

I wonder if Lutz's response--it would add 5K---is in relation to ONLY CTS sales.

I wonder if they spread it around a bit (CTS, H3, Colorado--a few others) if they could not drop the unti cost of then engine.

[Member55]

But I suspect the real reason we will not get the diesel is emissions and not cost.

I think it's the cost of meeting the emissions regulations.

[gm4life]

Diesel in a Cadillac I think I am seeing 1980 all over again. Not a good thing. I just want it to run well, and have good performance I just am not seeing in a Cadillac. I guess Benz sells lots of diesels and he now this motor in an H3 or Colorado would be great. *Better than the $h!ty 5 bangers!*

Edited March 12, 2007 by gm4life

[Member55]

I would like a CTS diesel as described in the article so that I could have a great looking, great performing car that could run completely on BioDiesel.

Advantages:

1. greater range; I assume they wouldn't change the fuel tank, they almost never do. I can get 360miles out of a tank on the CTS now. 700-800 miles to a tank would be awesome!

2. Not burning fossil fuels; biodiesel doesn't release any new carbon into the atmosphere. My vehicle becomes as close to carbon neutral as one can get.

3. Not burning foreign oil; My partner and 2 of this brothers already served in the middle east. I don't want them to have to return.

4. Longevity of the engine; diesels require a fuel filter change every 50k miles or so and are known to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Fuel filter change costs about as much as an oil change. Hybrids require a battery change every 100k miles or so. Costs = about $2,000. How many 300k mile Pruises are there out there? $6000 in battery changes to do 300k miles? No thanks.

I respect your opinion but none of the points you made would make me spend more on a car than what I'm already spending. The only way I would consider a diesel would be if it's going to save me some money.

[pow]

Yes, but California also has CARB (California Air Research Board?) that adds additional emissions requirements to cars and trucks beyond Bin 5 Tier 2, which make their regualtions the most restrictive of any state in the union, I had heard that New York and Mass. were going to follow Cali's lead in the near future if they haven't already.

Federal regulations only require Bin 9 (CA's LEV 1). CARB's LEV II goal by 2010 is Bin 5; AFAIK there's nothing beyond that.

[pow]

I do not buy the 10 grand motor.

His statements are probably more politically driven because of the inconsitency in the emissions regulations between the US and Europe.

Correct me if I am wrong but MB, VW, BMW and some Jeeps are making diesels available right now in the US.

But I am unsure when US Bin 5 Tier 2 becomes effective if not already and what the above engines are certified to.

Maybe it is buried here:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/01/tier_2_bin_5_di.html

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/08/ricardo_develop.html

http://www.epa.gov/EPA-AIR/2002/December/Day-06/a30843.htm

None of the diesel engines available today are Bin 5 certified, making them available in only 45 states. Implementing BLUETEC technology, as MB, VW, and BMW plan to do, will likely make them 50-state legal.

[Member55]

None of the diesel engines available today are Bin 5 certified, making them available in only 45 states. Implementing BLUETEC technology, as MB, VW, and BMW plan to do, will likely make them 50-state legal.

I could be wrong but I think that even the BLUETEC is not good enough for California.

[pow]

I could be wrong but I think that even the BLUETEC is not good enough for California.

From Green Car Congress...

"Mercedes-Benz has developed BLUETEC in two versions: in the E-Class an oxidation-type catalytic converter and particulate filter are combined with an improved, extremely durable NOx trap system and an additional Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) catalytic converter.

The second BLUETEC version is based on a urea-SCR system, and this is the one that will deliver Bin 5 compliance."

MB, VW, and BMW will have urea-SCR systems by 2008, making them 50-state legal/Bin 5.

[pow]

I would like a CTS diesel as described in the article so that I could have a great looking, great performing car that could run completely on BioDiesel.

Advantages:

1. greater range; I assume they wouldn't change the fuel tank, they almost never do. I can get 360miles out of a tank on the CTS now. 700-800 miles to a tank would be awesome!

2. Not burning fossil fuels; biodiesel doesn't release any new carbon into the atmosphere. My vehicle becomes as close to carbon neutral as one can get.

3. Not burning foreign oil; My partner and 2 of this brothers already served in the middle east. I don't want them to have to return.

4. Longevity of the engine; diesels require a fuel filter change every 50k miles or so and are known to last hundreds of thousands of miles. Fuel filter change costs about as much as an oil change. Hybrids require a battery change every 100k miles or so. Costs = about $2,000. How many 300k mile Pruises are there out there? $6000 in battery changes to do 300k miles? No thanks.

Biodiesel (and ethanol) release carbon into the atmosphere... the only reason why people say E85 "reduces greenhouses gases" is because of the photosynthesis from corn.

Diesels generally do require more maintenance. In our Passat owner's manual I recall extra procedures for TDIs... fuel filter every 20K, draining water separator every 10K, etc.

Ultimately the best ICE solution would be a combination of hybrids and diesels. Diesels are great on the highway, while hybrids make perfect sense in stop-and-go traffic. Looking at my instant MPG readout really shows why... when I accelerate, it says I get 7-10 MPG. Now imagine an electric motor doing all that. At 99.9 MPG. And whenever I brake, instead of wasting energy, I'm recharging the batteries.. it's brilliant because it addresses the most inefficient part of motoring.

Edited March 13, 2007 by empowah

[Member55]

From Green Car Congress...

"Mercedes-Benz has developed BLUETEC in two versions: in the E-Class an oxidation-type catalytic converter and particulate filter are combined with an improved, extremely durable NOx trap system and an additional Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) catalytic converter.

The second BLUETEC version is based on a urea-SCR system, and this is the one that will deliver Bin 5 compliance."

MB, VW, and BMW will have urea-SCR systems by 2008, making them 50-state legal/Bin 5.

Nice, thanks for the info.

[thegriffon]

Would a CTS diesel get you into a GM showroom to look at a car you would have otherwise not have considered?

My household fleet consists of a Civic and an Accord, so most of my time is spent over at vtec.net. The talk of the town over there is whether the 08 accord will have a diesel option in the us, which it almost certainly will not.

http://auto-report.net/WordPress/?p=234

"Honda plans to introduce its next-generation diesel engine in the U.S. within three years."

The GM-Isuzu 1.7 L was supplied to Honda until the introduction of the new Civic hatch last year. An updated version will be introduced in the Astra later this year, replacing the SOHC Fiat-designed, Opel-built 1.9 L.

[rodinoma]

I live in Europe and have had to live with smelly, polluting diesel engines for most of my life. Why anyone would trade in an unctuous big displacement gasoline engine for a noisier and less supple diesel version is beyond me. I will never buy a diesel engined car.

[rkmdogs]

There is no free lunch here. You have to alway pay a premium up front for diesel. They cost more to design and manufacture.

Excuse me! Cost more to design? Where did you get these facts?---- out of a Cheerios box? Your other "fact" that you HAVE

to pay more for a diesel, has more to do with quantity manufactured more than componentry.

Do a component by component comparison with a similarily dimensioned fuel-injected internal-combustion gasoline engine,

designed for high performance. Then lets talk about why it should cost more for a diesel!

More to manufacture? Why? Outside of maybe more mass, due to higher strength requirements, there should not be any

tolerance differences that would increase manufacturing costs. Sales ploy? --- most definitely!!!!

Don't shoot from the hip until you can back it up with facts.

[Drew Dowdell]

Biodiesel (and ethanol) release carbon into the atmosphere... the only reason why people say E85 "reduces greenhouses gases" is because of the photosynthesis from corn.

that's why I said new carbon

[Member55]

My guess is that less than 5% of the CTS buyers would go for a Diesel engine, especially if it's $5K premium over the 3.6 DI engine. To be honest I would take the 3.6 DI over a Diesel engine even if it's the same price.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Member55

[Drew Dowdell]

My guess is that less than 5% of the CTS buyers would go for a Diesel engine, especially if it's $5K premium over the 3.6 DI engine. To be honest I would take the 3.6 DI over a Diesel engine even if it's the same price.

Around 5% of Jettas are diesel..... yet there are waiting lists for them.

[pow]

that's why I said new carbon

You mean additional carbon. Tons of new CO2 still come from the exhaust of a biodiesel-burning car.

[pow]

Excuse me! Cost more to design? Where did you get these facts?---- out of a Cheerios box? Your other "fact" that you HAVE

to pay more for a diesel, has more to do with quantity manufactured more than componentry.

Do a component by component comparison with a similarily dimensioned fuel-injected internal-combustion gasoline engine,

designed for high performance. Then lets talk about why it should cost more for a diesel!

More to manufacture? Why? Outside of maybe more mass, due to higher strength requirements, there should not be any

tolerance differences that would increase manufacturing costs. Sales ploy? --- most definitely!!!!

Don't shoot from the hip until you can back it up with facts.

Exhaust-treatment systems like a particulate filter and urea-secretion, highly precise fuel-injection systems, turbochargers...

The things required to make a diesel engine perform, sound, and pollute like a gas engine all cost extra.

Edited March 13, 2007 by empowah

[rkmdogs]

Exhaust-treatment systems like a particulate filter and urea-secretion, highly precise fuel-injection systems, turbochargers...

The things required to make a diesel engine perform, sound, and pollute like a gas engine all cost extra.

Those are all add-ons, and do not pertain to the cost of the engine design, which was the statement I referred to in my previous post.

High performance internal combustion, gasoline-fueled engines require similar external hardware, like catalytic convertors, and O2 sensors, to comply with mandated political agendas. So, those costs factor out as a wash. Turbochargers don't care whether they are on a diesel engine or a gas engine. Their technology is the same, but their physicals may vary. Again, volume of manufacture becomes the criteria on cost break-down, plus some amount for degree of sophistication. That is all covered in the extent of manufacturing devlopment. That is not to say that the engine designer does not have to have some

acumen about how the engine will be fabricated and adjust the design for the best use of the manufacturing processes.

The history here is a point. When GM first had Buick design the 3.5L BOP all-aluminum engine in the early 60's, it cost

$200 more to manufacture that engine than a larger cast-iron engine. The reason: The state-of-the-art in casting

aluminum engine blocks could not prevent or discover internal casting porosity. In some cases not until the engine was

90% machined. They did not have the pore-sealing technology then that later became SOP, so blocks were scrapped

that had a lot of time and money expended on them.

This was not a design fault, it was a manufacturing technology flaw, that has subsequently been solved.

But to save loosing money on scrap engine blocks, Buick switched back to the cast-iron block designs in 1964.

Today we have all-aluminum engines again, that are now considered run-of-the-mill designs and are made without the

prior manufacturing problems. They call that progress!!

[Member55]

Those are all add-ons, and do not pertain to the cost of the engine design, which was the statement I referred to in my previous post.

High performance internal combustion, gasoline-fueled engines require similar external hardware, like catalytic convertors, and O2 sensors, to comply with mandated political agendas. So, those costs factor out as a wash.

There is no way the BLUETEC technology cost the same the emissions technology used on the modern gasoline engines.

Edited March 14, 2007 by Member55

[gm4life]

Although I think Cadillac should consider offering it like MB does with Bluetec, and uhh that would be an excellent motor in the BLS in the Estate especially.

[rkmdogs]

There is no way the BLUETEC technology cost the same the emissions technology used on the modern gasoline engines.

Again, you are confusing ivory-tower development technology with run-of-the-mill production design.

They are not even in the same ball park.

I know, I've been there----- on both sides, but at different times, of course!

[Member55]

Again, you are confusing ivory-tower development technology with run-of-the-mill production design.

They are not even in the same ball park.

I know, I've been there----- on both sides, but at different times, of course!

What do you want us to compare? Diesels need that "ivory tower technology" today, not in 30 years.

[Drew Dowdell]

You mean additional carbon. Tons of new CO2 still come from the exhaust of a biodiesel-burning car.

That carbon was removed from the atmosphere by the plants that were using in biodiesel production. Hence, it's not "new carbon"

Carbon released by petrol diesel is "new carbon" because it was sucked up from the earth.

From www.E85Fuel.com

Although CO2 is released during ethanol production and combustion, it is recaptured as a nutrient to the crops that are used in its production. Unlike fossil fuel combustion, which unlocks carbon that has been stored for millions of years, use of ethanol results in low increases to the carbon cycle.

B100 Biodiesel is even better because it uses no petroleum.

[Drew Dowdell]

anybody notice that Volvo is now using 4 catalitic converters and 2 O2 sensors on the new models in an effort to keep emissions down?

[rkmdogs]

What do you want us to compare? Diesels need that "ivory tower technology" today, not in 30 years.

Let's go back to the original questionable premise--"that it costs more to design a diesel engine instead of a gasoline one."

The emphasis here was on "design", which is the comment that I challenged.

Go back to the orginal GM press release.

"GM's development of the new engine is being coordinated under the leadership of GM Powertrain's European operations in Turin, Italy, in cooperation with VM Motori based in Cento,Italy. GM Powertrain will focus on the development of the clean combustion process, electronic engine control and exhaust-gas aftertreatment, as well as calibration and integration into GM vehicles. VM Motori will build the new unit at its plant in Cento,Italy, and is responsible for the mechanical aspects of the engine's design, development and bench testing."

No where did this release say the Cadillac was doing any of the engine work, so the design cost is coming from a different pocket in GM's pants! These are the ivory-tower divisions of GM, not the Cadillac division!

The only additional cost to Cadillac may be some more hardware in the building of the car, but not $5000. worth!

This whole "schtick" of, "diesels cost more", is a sales ploy that has been foisted on the auto buyers for far too long!

It is time for an accountability check!!!!

Edited March 14, 2007 by rkmdogs

[Moriarty]

I'm surprised nobody has taken the time to mention this. This same engine, with two extra cylinders (thus a V- would make roughly 333 horsepower and 540 lb-ft out of a mere 3.9L. Even if it costs $10,000, that's a really good engine! THAT is what I would put in the Camaro. You know, a $10,000 premium off the base Camaro ($25,000), and you got more torque than a Dodge Viper! Use it for drag racing. Ha-ha! I wonder what sort of gas mileage it would get, especially if you matched it with the 2-mode Hybrid transmission! Or you could make it the standard engine in the Express Cargo Van.

[loki]

I'm surprised nobody has taken the time to mention this. This same engine, with two extra cylinders (thus a V- would make roughly 333 horsepower and 540 lb-ft out of a mere 3.9L. Even if it costs $10,000, that's a really good engine! THAT is what I would put in the Camaro. You know, a $10,000 premium off the base Camaro ($25,000), and you got more torque than a Dodge Viper! Use it for drag racing. Ha-ha! I wonder what sort of gas mileage it would get, especially if you matched it with the 2-mode Hybrid transmission! Or you could make it the standard engine in the Express Cargo Van.

the diesel comming in ~09 is a v-8 and will prolly be around that power output, but be closer to 4L - 4.5L.... the announcement for it is in powertrain.

[Justin Bimmer]

im ready for a diesel escalade or escalade EXT

[cyclonic]

Uh you left out something. A DUMBASS Oil Man hooked on Defense sits in the white house.

Heh, you think you hate him there, think about how all us of foreigners feel! He really goes a long way to making America and Americans in gerenal look bad.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand..

I'm a big fan of diesels and i'm thinking of trading my '05 Barina 1.4 (Corsa C) for an Astra Diesel. One of the factors for me too is the fact that Bio-Diesel is becoming widely available in Australia (well at least in the big cities where I live), so not only will I save on fuel, I won't be chewing up fossil fuels.

As long as I give it careful maintinance, all should be relatively ok.

Two thoughts though:

*Why haven't oil compnaies that Bio-Diesel should be cheaper and easier to make then regular Diesel?

*Why haven't car companies pressed ahead with diesels designed to run better and more efficiently on Bio-Diesel?

[thegriffon]

"Biodiesel" is usually only a diesel blend with "some" biofuel. Pure biodisel conversion kist include a fuel heater to ensure the oil is fluid enough. Pure biodiesel will "freeze" in the tank at refrigeration temperatures, a frequent occurance even in Australian winters.

Edited March 20, 2007 by thegriffon

[Drew Dowdell]

they sell B100 here <in Western PA> with some sort of additive in it to prevent gelling.

[thegriffon]

Heh, you think you hate him there, think about how all us of foreigners feel! He really goes a long way to making America and Americans in gerenal look bad.

Anyway, back to the subject at hand..

I'm a big fan of diesels and i'm thinking of trading my '05 Barina 1.4 (Corsa C) for an Astra Diesel. One of the factors for me too is the fact that Bio-Diesel is becoming widely available in Australia (well at least in the big cities where I live), so not only will I save on fuel, I won't be chewing up fossil fuels.

As long as I give it careful maintinance, all should be relatively ok.

Two thoughts though:

*Why haven't oil compnaies that Bio-Diesel should be cheaper and easier to make then regular Diesel?

*Why haven't car companies pressed ahead with diesels designed to run better and more efficiently on Bio-Diesel?

Which cities? A search through the biodiesel association only finds outlets supplied by Gull Petroleum in WA and SAFF in SA, and B100 is only available in three SAFF outlets (a few more have B20 marketed as Premium Diesel).

[CaddyRich]

Hey Bob!!!

Put it in the Canyon/Colorado. Now. I'm serious...Now! Thanks.

[thegriffon]

Once again, I will say, there is another 3 liter diesel for the Colorado, a 4-cyl truck engine with peak torque at lower rpms. It is already offered in Thai-built Colorados and will soon be an option in South African H3s. If, and this seems unlikely at this stage, it can affordably meet US emissions standards it will be offered in the US as well. GM do Brasil, which has the lead in developing the next Colorado/Canyon also offers a 4-cyl MWM diesel in the S10.

[5.3Avalanche]

Unless it's in a 3/4 ton truck, diesels won't sell in North America. Just think of the last time you heard a TDI VW drive by. I remember my comment to the person next to me in a sarcastic manner, "boy, does that sound smoooth "

Diesels won't sell here.

[Drew Dowdell]

Unless it's in a 3/4 ton truck, diesels won't sell in North America. Just think of the last time you heard a TDI VW drive by. I remember my comment to the person next to me in a sarcastic manner, "boy, does that sound smoooth "

Diesels won't sell here.

I see VW TDIs, MB E-class CDIs, and Jeep Liberty CRDs, with some frequency.

[pow]

I see VW TDIs, MB E-class CDIs, and Jeep Liberty CRDs, with some frequency.

A 50-state VW diesel is arriving January 2008 for Jetta sedans and wagons. It meets Bin 5 standards without needing urea injection, supposedly does 50 MPG, produces 140 hp/236 lb-ft, and will be available with a six-speed DSG gearbox. They'll sell each one they have, and judging by current used '06 Jetta TDI prices (and current gas prices), there will most certainly be a mark-up..

[avro206]

Unless it's in a 3/4 ton truck, diesels won't sell in North America. Just think of the last time you heard a TDI VW drive by. I remember my comment to the person next to me in a sarcastic manner, "boy, does that sound smoooth "

Diesels won't sell here.

GM sold a fair amount of 1/2 ton 6.5L Turbo diesels.

Edited May 11, 2007 by avro206

[regfootball]

A 50-state VW diesel is arriving January 2008 for Jetta sedans and wagons. It meets Bin 5 standards without needing urea injection, supposedly does 50 MPG, produces 140 hp/236 lb-ft, and will be available with a six-speed DSG gearbox. They'll sell each one they have, and judging by current used '06 Jetta TDI prices (and current gas prices), there will most certainly be a mark-up..

really? this might get my interest big time. A new Jetta wagon is quite nice. And the 6 speed DSG would be icing on the cake.