Another Media Bashing

[Z-06]

Here we go again. It is 2007, and it is Toyota will be #1 manufacturer this year. The article is sickening, and while it bashes GM for building Big SUV's, it is praising Toy for building Macho, Turd. Morons. No mention about Toy's recalls either.

These terrorist journalists should be whacked.

#1 Toy-Boy-Ta

Vote here, GM is lagging behind badly. See how bad people's perceptions are about quality.

Poll! Vote Now.

[Oracle of Delphi]

Repost: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=15862

[A Horse With No Name]

Interesting that in the poll 82 percent say that Toyota builds a better car.

Chris

[bowtie_dude]

Interesting that in the poll 82 percent say that Toyota builds a better car.

Chris

From an overall quality and reliability standpoint, Toyota DOES build a better car than GM.

HOWEVER, that said, the margin is so small (.5 more problems per car in a Chevrolet than a Toyota) that quality and reliability is a non issue.

But, even saying that, GM still has a long way to go, as the poll shows, in changing consumer perception.

[Mr.Krinkle]

From an overall quality and reliability standpoint, Toyota DOES build a better car than GM.

HOWEVER, that said, the margin is so small (.5 more problems per car in a Chevrolet than a Toyota) that quality and reliability is a non issue.

But, even saying that, GM still has a long way to go, as the poll shows, in changing consumer perception.

No, no, no. You have to do your homework --and not just you.

Unless it explicitly says "scientific" whenever you see an internet poll assume it is not.

look closer: ONLINE SURVEYS

In contrast, MSNBC's online surveys (Live Votes) may reflect the views of far more individuals, but they are not necessarily representative of the general population.

To begin with, the people who respond choose to do so — they are not randomly selected and asked to participate, but instead make the choice to read a story about a certain topic and then vote on a related question. There is thus no guarantee that the votes would reflect anything close to a statistical sample, even of MSNBC.com users: The participants in a Sports Live Vote and a Politics Live Vote may overlap, but each group is likely to be dominated by people with an interest in each particular area. In addition, while MSNBC.com’s Live Votes are designed to allow only one vote per user, someone who wants to vote more than once could simply use another computer or another Internet account.

right from from msns site http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3704453/

In other words to sum up -- the surveys are bs.

thats my psa for the night.

[gm4life]

Perception is reality and that is the prejudice GM has to overcome. I think they will most people don't know GM recalled less vehicles than Toyota last year and GM made more vehicles.

Edited March 7, 2007 by gm4life

[bowtie_dude]

No, no, no. You have to do your homework --and not just you.

Unless it explicitly says "scientific" whenever you see an internet poll assume it is not.

look closer: ONLINE SURVEYS

In contrast, MSNBC's online surveys (Live Votes) may reflect the views of far more individuals, but they are not necessarily representative of the general population.

To begin with, the people who respond choose to do so — they are not randomly selected and asked to participate, but instead make the choice to read a story about a certain topic and then vote on a related question. There is thus no guarantee that the votes would reflect anything close to a statistical sample, even of MSNBC.com users: The participants in a Sports Live Vote and a Politics Live Vote may overlap, but each group is likely to be dominated by people with an interest in each particular area. In addition, while MSNBC.com’s Live Votes are designed to allow only one vote per user, someone who wants to vote more than once could simply use another computer or another Internet account.

right from from msns site http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3704453/

In other words to sum up -- the surveys are bs.

thats my psa for the night.

Oh I definitely agree that an internet poll attached to an article that would likely be read by people who already believed Toyotas are better isn't a very good example of the general perception the consumer has of General Motors.

...Wow, thats a long ass sentence...

Anyway, the example I used above of the dependability difference is from the most recent JD Powers Vehicle Dependability Survey. I'm pretty sure that it IS a scientific polling, done by 100 randomly chosen owners of cars they bought 3 years ago.

But even without dodgey internet polls, I'd wager that the overall general perception is that Toyota is better than GM.

[bowtie_dude]

Perception is reality and that is the prejudice GM has to overcome. I think they will most people don't know GM recalled less vehicles than Toyota last year and GM made more vehicles.

To play devil's advocate, I think its more along the lines that people are more willing to forgive Toyota, whose 20-year record is all but perfect, for a few more recalls than they are GM, whose 20-year record is anything but a shining example of how to build a reliable mode of transportation.

Not to mention that, while Toyota did recall more vehicles worldwide, most of GMs recalls are in North America, whereas most of Toyotas were in Japan.

[Mr.Krinkle]

Oh I definitely agree that an internet poll attached to an article that would likely be read by people who already believed Toyotas are better isn't a very good example of the general perception the consumer has of General Motors.

...Wow, thats a long ass sentence...

Anyway, the example I used above of the dependability difference is from the most recent JD Powers Vehicle Dependability Survey. I'm pretty sure that it IS a scientific polling, done by 100 randomly chosen owners of cars they bought 3 years ago.

But even without dodgey internet polls, I'd wager that the overall general perception is that Toyota is better than GM.

true enough and i dont disagree. There was a time when GM was the media and they could do no wrong.

Polls are often used for nefarious reasons. These internet polls like stated above are basically just for fun and I wanted to make sure people realize that.

for instance, just by being posted on a fan forum site can destroy the validity. For all we know toyota fan sites may have responded 10 fold.

[gm4life]

Yeah I understand that, look I am just talking about last years but your right they need to keep that up for a few years.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Interesting that in the poll 82 percent say that Toyota builds a better car.

Chris

Actually when I first voted in that poll (for GM of course) 1-2 weeks ago, it showed that 89% of people thought Toyota build a better car. Now, after more than 15000 votes it is down to 69% Toy and 31% GM...I'm surprised.

[andy82471]

Actually when I first voted in that poll (for GM of course) 1-2 weeks ago, it showed that 89% of people thought Toyota build a better car. Now, after more than 15000 votes it is down to 69% Toy and 31% GM...I'm surprised.

These polls are completely bogus. You can vote as many times as you wish. Dont pay any attention to these unscentific poll.

[The O.C.]

To play devil's advocate, I think its more along the lines that people are more willing to forgive Toyota, whose 20-year record is all but perfect, for a few more recalls than they are GM, whose 20-year record is anything but a shining example of how to build a reliable mode of transportation.

Not to mention that, while Toyota did recall more vehicles worldwide, most of GMs recalls are in North America, whereas most of Toyotas were in Japan.

Plus.....remember the poll asked who people thought "manufactured better vehicles"

This doesn't just mean quality......the poll leaves it open for people to interpret styling, engineering, product development, availablility of features, and yes probably quality.

Take each company's best selling sedan......Camry versus Impala. There's NO QUESTION in my mind that the Camry is a newer, fresher, better packaged, and more up-to-date design than the Impala.

Whether you like the styling better or not....it's hard to argue GM's strengths compared to Toyota's in this segment. GM's BEST effort, AURA, only comes merely close to being competitive. I predict Malibu will be MUCH closer....

But I'm sure people are thinking along these exact lines when answering a poll such as this.

Change the poll to "trucks" and the outcome might very well have been different.

[balthazar]

>>"remember the poll asked who people "thought" manufactured better vehicles<<

[BrewSwillis]

Mr. Krinkle you are correct except for the Toyota fan forum part spaming the poll.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17553636/site/newsweek/

Wow, Toyota's cockiness knows no bounds.....and hopefully, this will be their eventual downfall:

Toyota found the whole thing amusing. "If GM feels they need to do this, then let them rock and roll," says Irving Miller, Toyota U.S. VP of PR. "But if I were a general consumer and saw that lopsded number (in GM's favor), I'd say, 'this is crazy,' and not put any credibility into it." The bottom line, though, is that Toyota's U.S. sales are up 10.9 percent this year, while GM's are off 6.4 percent. That's one vote GM is finding difficult to reverse.

[bowtie_dude]

Toyota found the whole thing amusing. "If GM feels they need to do this, then let them rock and roll," says Irving Miller, Toyota U.S. VP of PR. "But if I were a general consumer and saw that lopsded number (in GM's favor), I'd say, 'this is crazy,' and not put any credibility into it." The bottom line, though, is that Toyota's U.S. sales are up 10.9 percent this year, while GM's are off 6.4 percent. That's one vote GM is finding difficult to reverse.

As opposed to consumers seeing a lopsided number in Toyota's favor and thinking its correct? Sure, GM stuffed the balot box. But I swear, these days GM doesn't hold a candle to the arrogance of Toyota's PR people.

[Chicagoland]

I'm sure most of the people on that poll will talk about some 1984 Citation they got used in 1990 that had a motor die, so of course GM 'still makes crap'. Or the usual, "I dont like the interiors" thinking that GM is still making Chevettes or Corsicas.

So many 'mainstream' writers add 'soon to overtake GM.." whenever they mention Toyota. But, when is this supposed to happen? not in 2005 or '06, maybe 2222?

[Mr.Krinkle]

I'm sure most of the people on that poll will talk about some 1984 Citation they got used in 1990 that had a motor die, so of course GM 'still makes crap'. Or the usual, "I dont like the interiors" thinking that GM is still making Chevettes or Corsicas.

So many 'mainstream' writers add 'soon to overtake GM.." whenever they mention Toyota. But, when is this supposed to happen? not in 2005 or '06, maybe 2222?

Considering Toyotas sales consistently show year over year improvements, and is widely known that GM is reducing its fleet sales for good reasons, it may happen sooner than later. Unless of course GM China and now Brazil continue to pick up the slack. Brazil is now a bigger market for GM than Canada. Perhaps if ethanol ever takes off here things may become more optimistic.

The Big 3 are supposed to meet with Pres. Bush at the White House again. Maybe they will get through to him this time.

[JT64]

Why does a second rate German company get to consult Mr. Bush, instead of BMW?

[-Camaro-]

Interesting that in the poll 82 percent say that Toyota builds a better car.

Chris

Probably got that high from some Toyota forum sending its members there to vote. Oh and I'm quite sure that is the case. Maybe it doesn't account for all of its votes, but I'm sure it has happened.

[stefanmueller]

Actually, an update from the poll I just voted and 83% (102k votes total) said GM makes better cars

[lanky9172]

Actually, an update from the poll I just voted and 83% (102k votes total) said GM makes better cars

I just saw that too...very interesting, but I wonder how accurately that gauges popular opinion.

[mustang84]

It's going to take a month or two for the media to get articles like this out of their system...it's been building up for years and they've just been itching for the time when it was right to publish them. It's all about sensationalism, feeding Toyota's ego, and feeding the egos of the editors and journalists ("we were right all along"). Whatever...let them have their glory time in the spotlight, as long as GM and Ford are building good products and continuing to improve on income and sales. Let Toyota feel what it's like to be under the watchful eye of everyone as #1.