Prius Troubles

[Sixty8panther]

Even with tire chains they're USELESS in the snow.

I love it. The power of FWD coupled with PERMANENT traction control and Toyota stupidity.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/02/ove...-stuck-in-snow/

[siegen]

They should release an AWD Prius. That coupled with the new EPA ratings and it should get about 35/40 EPA mileage, which would be more realistic anyway.

[caddycruiser]

Not jumping to any conclusions, but one well known fact, for YEARS, has always been how extremely oversensitive Toyota makes their traction and stability control programs, to the level that it sometimes is even hard to drive normally on a gravel driveway. Not always the case, and seems better now, but it's definitely been an issue.

Couple that with what is, really, quite a featherlight of a car, and standard low resistance tires, and you're going to have some traction issues.

BUT, again, all that said, it's not everyone, and I have a friend with an '04 that's driven it through everything, and never had an issue--and still loves the car.

[tmp]

I just love the holier-than-thou attitude: "we know what's best for you and sometimes what's best for you is not getting out of your driveway"

[sciguy_0504]

CaddyCruiser has it right. People should have put the pieces together and realized the Prius wasn't going to be the best car to drive in the snow. Then again, my Grand Prix was horrible in the snow and it wasn't light and didn't have low resistance tires.

[Intrepidation]

"A vehicle without TRAC in those conditions," Kwon said. "would probably just start spinning in place and eventually spin out of control. In my opinion, it's better to have the vehicle stop then to have the wheels spinning and out of control."

What an idiot. Any driver with an ounce of skill and a little brain power can handle a car on slippery roads, especially if it's not going fast. I'd be pissed if the car refused to move because it was a little slippery. I drive the Prizm and the Shadow throw snow, if they get stuck I turn the wheels as I go or put it in reverse, get traction, and go again. It''s not that hard and it's a lot better than not being able to do anything because your car won't let you.

Oh and dumbass, there's a difference between traction control and forcing your car to not move.

[regfootball]

Toyota insists the system works as intended, and spokesman Bill Kwon believes without it, drivers would still be stuck.

AHHHHH Classic Toyota arrogance. STFU Toyota. GFY.

"When my car is on any kind of slick surface that causes one of the front wheels to slip, all power to the drive system is stopped," Prius owner Christopher of Reston, Virginia told ConsumerAffairs.

He said his first experience with the problem was "on a sloped gravel driveway in July but discounted it as a temporary thing."

When snow fell, the problem became apparent. "This past weekend I was on a snow-covered road with about an 8- to 10-degree grade. Driving at 20 miles per hour, one tire began to slip on the snow and the car came to a stop. The wheels then refused to engage, because one would slip a little, regardless of throttle position," he wrote.

Well, DUMBASS, maybe you should have done your product research before you bought that overhyped crackerbox.

Typical Toyota lemming.

I've had a couple instances with my 500 and my inclined driveway where I was not able to get up due to the traction control kicking in. i shut it off and I can spin the wheels like normal and I can get up. The trac works beautifully on a long sloped incline where you need to make it smooth and steady and you get a bit of a head start that you can't always get with your driveway. the car stays straight and you barely notice its working. But sometimes if the weather is too inclement, then the trac becomes useless so its nice to shut it off.

I love how just now people are finally realizing there is no such thing as a 'no compromises car'. they all thought Jesus Christ the second (TOYOTA) had created a 60mpg miracle that would do everything their SUV, van, car, and fuel sipper would do, all in one package. Well, no $h! sherlock, if you drive a "60" mpg car, there's a good chance it will suck at many other things and it will be way too light. My old prizm was crappy in snow too. Too light.

I love how the idiot in the article was telling this to Consumer Affairs. Cry like a baby to the consumer mags, aren't they the same mags you sent your owner survey too with glowing reports...you know, the mags that created the toyota 'legacy'? SHEESH.

Edited February 21, 2007 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

GM has this neat thing in the CTS called "snow mode". I think it originally started on the Catera. Anyway, in snow mode the car starts in 3rd gear rather than first. This has the effect of lowering the torque to the rear wheels. This, combined with traction control disable <when needed> gives this RWD car the ability to get through most situations even here in hilly Western PA.

[AAS]

GM has this neat thing in the CTS called "snow mode". I think it originally started on the Catera. Anyway, in snow mode the car starts in 3rd gear rather than first. This has the effect of lowering the torque to the rear wheels. This, combined with traction control disable <when needed> gives this RWD car the ability to get through most situations even here in hilly Western PA.

While not necessarily labeled as "snow mode," I know the last gen. F-bodies and the GMT800's started in 2nd if you chose that gear with the selector, or had a switch (I've only seen this in some Firebirds) you could flip to force the car to start in 2nd.

[NOS2006]

While not necessarily labeled as "snow mode," I know the last gen. F-bodies and the GMT800's started in 2nd if you chose that gear with the selector, or had a switch (I've only seen this in some Firebirds) you could flip to force the car to start in 2nd.

My Camaro had an "SGS" (Second Gear Start) switch in it, along with traction control programmed into the ECM (all 3.8 A4s had this).

[Paolino]

Interesting... I live on Long Iceland in the winter and in 3 years I've never had a problem driving my friend's Prius in the snow or ice.

[zhawk]

Another example of

"Toyota, moving forward"

Or not.

[Sixty8panther]

Cadillac's systems seem to be about as good as they get... my Infiniti Q45's

system sucks. Honestly from the sound of the article my Infiniti's system is

almost as bad, but with one huge difference: I can turn it off COMPLETELY.

The other day I turned it off and got a running start up our steep driveway

and pretty much powerslid into my spot. The Datsun is a stick and it does

not have any B.S. electronics like ETC or what not.

[Flybrian]

Is snow that stuff that looks like sand, but its cold?

[Sixty8panther]

Yup.... Toyotas use it as as an anti-friction catalist in order to slide into unsuspecting Oldsmobiles.

[76ChevyTrucker]

You know, the driveway at our house had some ice on it a week or so back and all I did was get a little bit of a running start with my Impala, kick the traction system off and poured on the power. It climbed the hill, tires spinning the whole way, but the point is, it climbed the hill.

[siegen]

Well, no &#036;h&#33; sherlock, if you drive a "60" mpg car, there's a good chance it will suck at many other things and it will be way too light. My old prizm was crappy in snow too. Too light.

The Prius weighs in at a hefty 2900+ lbs. That isn't exactly light. However I bet a fair amount of that weight it is the back, throwing off the weight distribution (for a FWD car, 60/40 is usually pretty good, I bet the Prius is closer to 50/50).

Low resistance tires probably don't help.

For comparison, my Integra weighs in at 2700 lbs abouts. Even before I got new tires, it did fine in the snow. With my new Kumho Ecsta ASX's, this season was a breeze, even though we got snow twice.

[BuddyP]

I love the fact that I can shut the TC off in the woman's Alero

"A vehicle without TRAC in those conditions would probably just start spinning in place and eventually spin out of control"

LMAO!! What a way to beat around the bush! Mmm, so I guess they are saying the Prius could spin out of control at will... WOW

Edited February 22, 2007 by BuddyP

[gm4life]

Stupid Toyota move. hahaha

[Sixty8panther]

Low resistance tires probably don't help.

Excellent point.

[Dsuupr]

I saw this happen on my way to work today. We had snow packed roads which caused the prius to stop dead in it's tracks. PIECE O CRAP!

[balthazar]

The Prius weighs in at a hefty 2900+ lbs. That isn't exactly light. However I bet a fair amount of that weight it is the back, throwing off the weight distribution (for a FWD car, 60/40 is usually pretty good, I bet the Prius is closer to 50/50).

prius weight distribution is 59%/41%.

[Sixty8panther]

So much for that theory.

[regfootball]

it doesn't mean anything if you have low rolling resistance tyres.

[Variance]

Well, any person that stops to think about knows that if it's winter time and snowy in your area, you should probably get snow tires. Any car with stock tires that aren't meant to handle snow is likely going to have problems.

[BrewSwillis]

Well, any person that stops to think about knows that if it's winter time and snowy in your area, you should probably get snow tires. Any car with stock tires that aren't meant to handle snow is likely going to have problems.

Most non-performance vehicles have "all-season" tires. They should be adequate in the winter for all but the snowiest parts of the country.

All-season tires

* These are an attempt to make a tire that is a compromise between one developed for use on dry and wet roads during summer and one developed for use under winter conditions. The type of rubber and the tread pattern best suited for use under summer conditions cannot, for technical reasons, give good performance on snow and ice. The all-season tire is a compromise, and is neither an excellent summer tire nor an excellent winter tire. They have, however, become almost ubiquitous as original and replacement equipment on automobiles marketed in the United States, due to their convenience and their adequate performance in most situations.

* All-Season tires are also marked for mud and snow (e.g. M+####&S, etc.) the same as winter tires. Owing to the compromise with performance during summer, winter performance is usually poorer than a winter tire.

[Variance]

Most non-performance vehicles have "all-season" tires. They should be adequate in the winter for all but the snowiest parts of the country.

Your own quoted item says it best:

*Owing to the compromise with performance during summer, winter performance is usually poorer than a winter tire.

You can probably get by with decent all-seasons but there's no questioning specialized winter rubber is your best choice. And those crappy special eco-tires fitted on the Prius are probably the worst "all-seasons" out there. The low-friction properties of them make them useless in the snow it sounds like.

The point: If the owners are too lazy or cheap to swap in snow tires, they should be suprised if they get stuck. And for what it's worth, I've never seen a Prius up here stuck in the snow. Must be because CT owners know damn well you better have snow tires on your car when winter rolls around.

[BrewSwillis]

Well, any person that stops to think about knows that if it's winter time and snowy in your area, you should probably get snow tires. Any car with stock tires that aren't meant to handle snow is likely going to have problems.

Your own quoted item says it best:

*Owing to the compromise with performance during summer, winter performance is usually poorer than a winter tire.

You can probably get by with decent all-seasons but there's no questioning specialized winter rubber is your best choice. And those crappy special eco-tires fitted on the Prius are probably the worst "all-seasons" out there. The low-friction properties of them make them useless in the snow it sounds like.

The point: If the owners are too lazy or cheap to swap in snow tires, they should be suprised if they get stuck. And for what it's worth, I've never seen a Prius up here stuck in the snow. Must be because CT owners know damn well you better have snow tires on your car when winter rolls around.

O.K. Agreed.....but you originally said: "Any car with stock tires that aren't meant to handle snow is likely going to have problems." All-season tires are meant to handle snow.

The Prius is just showing another one of it's compromises to obtain it's meager increase in fuel economy. It's basically another way to trick the consumer. Yeah, your Prius has better mileage, but you have crappy tires that don't work in the snow, and probably don't handle all that well on dry pavement. Toyota: "You can change them, but you will lose mileage and probably get less then a regular CiviD or Cobalt. Maybe you should have gotten a VW TDI."

[Sixty8panther]

I'm with Variance.... Ifg you have an issue with snow &/or are comfortable in terms of $$$ you

should get snow tires despite ANY drivetrain layout including FWD and even 4x4/AWD. In the

end your best bet for snow is ANYTHING other than FWD. RWD or 4x4 is great for enthusiasts

as long as you have snow tires and do not need to drive through 3 feet of snow and AWD is best

if you are the type to be accident prone or you are all about point-A-to-B and do not care about

your vehice any more than your fridge.

I do NOT have snow tires on my Q45 this winter but given outr steep driveway & the craptastic

job the plow guy does Marcia & I have decided to buy some steelies & snow tires for next

winter. She just wanted new all seasons since our tread is just at the wear marks in the rear

but I think snow tires are the right thing to do. Responsible, smart enthusiasts drive RWD cars

and mount on snow tires on steel rims/cheap rims as soon as the temp. falls south of 40* F.

[balthazar]

>>"Responsible, smart enthusiasts drive RWD cars and mount on snow tires on steel rims/cheap rims as soon as the temp. falls south of 40* F."<<

Bah: I've been driving longer than a few C&Gers have been alive. Of the 20 vehicles I've owned..... 19 have been RWD and 1 >is< 4WD. Never owned a set of snow tires in my life. Never got stuck in snow in my life (off-road and in mud, tho, is another story).

Once in a fit of anger against a cop that allowed traffic to drive 2 miles from a main road on a back road before turning everyone around because of the snow & a steep decline, I cut a 180 in my RWD F-150, driving completely off the road and into snow over a foot deep and still didn't get stuck and this on 'street' tires. It doesn't snow regularly in Jersey, but over the years I've seen plenty. I've also driven on roads that were complete sheets of ice from edge to edge on street tires without undue drama.

There's a lot more to winter driving than nervous prayers and snow tires.

[Camino LS6]

Is snow that stuff that looks like sand, but its cold?

Yup.... Toyotas use it as as an anti-friction catalist in order to slide into unsuspecting Oldsmobiles.

Lots for me to comment on in this thread but I'll settle for the above exchange.

Has to be one of my favorites ever on C&G.

[BrewSwillis]

Looks like the Prius isn't the only Toyota that's bad in the snow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNrmUJ_aoWc

Or maybe it's because the driver went to the University of Michigan ......Go Michigan State!!

[AxelTheRed]

I never realized how ugly the Prius really was until today when I was driving home from work. Saw one following directly behind a really nice first generation Aurora. By GOD are those things hideous.

[cmattson]

. Of the 20 vehicles I've owned..... 19 have been RWD and 1 >is< 4WD. Never owned a set of snow tires in my life. Never got stuck in snow in my life (off-road and in mud, tho, is another story).

Just a wild guess: you've never tried driving a Camaro w/a shift kit in snow, have you? It's not a question if you're gonna get hung up somewhere, it's how far off the road you're gonna end up (or how high your front end is gonna be off the ground (up on a snowbank).

[CARBIZ]

Though I like to pee on Toyota as much as the next guy, living up in the hinterland (where we have REAL snow), I wouldn't be without winter tires north of Toronto. Toronto does not get real snow any more (and Thursday afternoon barely even counts as a few flakes, IMO). My RWD Caprice had winter tires. My FWD Dodge Shadow HAD to have M&S on its 16" rims - it was beyond useless where I was living at the time (Blue Mtn) My '98 Blazer was 4WD (which I did not need) and the "all seasons" were not quite that. Getting stuck is hardly the point: it is stopping when the idiot in front of you goes sideways.

From what I've seen of Prius drivers around here, none of them would survive in Kapuskasing anyway! That's probably why GM's cold weather facility is up there - to get away from Prius drivers.

[Intrepidation]

Though I like to pee on Toyota as much as the next guy, living up in the hinterland (where we have REAL snow), I wouldn't be without winter tires north of Toronto. Toronto does not get real snow any more (and Thursday afternoon barely even counts as a few flakes, IMO). My RWD Caprice had winter tires. My FWD Dodge Shadow HAD to have M&S on its 16" rims - it was beyond useless where I was living at the time (Blue Mtn) My '98 Blazer was 4WD (which I did not need) and the "all seasons" were not quite that. Getting stuck is hardly the point: it is stopping when the idiot in front of you goes sideways.

From what I've seen of Prius drivers around here, none of them would survive in Kapuskasing anyway! That's probably why GM's cold weather facility is up there - to get away from Prius drivers.

Our Shadow is actually pretty good in the snow. It just has cheap tires on it, but it does well...same with the Prizm and the Intrepid...dunno what sorta tires are on them.

[capriceman]

Well I'm not impressed with any FWD in snow. And I think Snow Tires are just something to waste money on. I have never bought them in my life and never will. I can drive any car in my drive way in a snow storm and still get around. The camaro is fun since you have to run reds and make illegal turns or you have to push start it. But still I buy the cheapest tires money can buy and they handle in Summer good and winter good. The most expensive tires i bought were a $750 set of Toyo All terrains. And I'm not that impressed with them.

[carstar]

So far i haven't heard about putting chains around the tires, how much does it help?

[Sixty8panther]

There's a lot more to winter driving than nervous prayers and snow tires.

Agreed!

With the kind of cars I drive snow tires are not a neccessity but if you

have a RWD Porsche or a BMW of some sort with 11" wide tires a set

of snow tires will allow them to bite where the car's perf. oriented

pirellis might not be the best choice for 18" of snow.

I'd love to have an Acura NSX for a winter beater... just to see people

cringe as a set of snow tires on steelies spray salt, slush and sand

all over the rear quarters. Maybe a plow truck would T-bone the car

& I'd get KBB on it. Then I'd buy it back from the insurace co. & have

it crushed by a Junkyard & use the aluminum cube for a coffee table.