It's official. Chrysler's up for auction...NOT?

[Ravenfreak13]

If GM owned Chrysler, they wouldn't dare keep vehicles that would compete directly with their own vehicles. I see at least three of the vehicles you mentioned being axed.

why not...the money would still go to GM

[NOS2006]

Yes, but they'd redevelop these into more profitable vehicles eventually. That's what I'm talking about. They wouldn't develop their vehicles to naturally compete with each other because that would waste their development money.

[vrazzhledazzle]

But they won't need to spend much on development costs. After the current Chryslers' model runs are over, GM will put them on their own newly developed platforms, drop their own new engines, transmissions, use similar interior materials and parts, ect. The development costs will be spread across all GM brands as well as the Chrysler brands. Of course, we don't want badge-engineered ex/interiors so they'll spend minimal development costs on differentiating everything and upholding brand's image (think Enclave - Outlook - Acadia or Sierra-Silverado-(Ram?) or Zeta=Charger,300,G8,RWD Buick)

In addition, Jeep is a niche brand that doesn't directly compete with any GM brands. Chrysler's image (near-luxury) can be made different from Buick's (near-luxury performance). Wouldn't you like to see sporty Buicks again?

[Northstar]

The Viper, as everyone knows, is a halo car. I doubt anyone would kill their halo car (besides Ford).

The Corvette is also General Motor's halo car. Therefore, the Viper would not be General Motor's halo car (I stress halo car). As a result the Viper would get killed.

Exactly. Chrysler only has 3 brands right now anyway. Its the perfect size company to turn itself around (easier to do so than GM and Ford) especially using GM great new platforms, engines, interior designs, ect.

But GM doesn't have the money to spend on turning around Chrysler. Pontiac and Buick also need to be turned around.

Well I meant virtually untouched. Keep the Ram, Dakota, Viper, Charger/Magnum, Caliber; possibly axe the Durango and intro another sedan, make the Avenger more competetive, give the whole lineup new interiors and viola.

PS: Does anyone think this would be happening if Chrysler's "Bible" wasn't tossed out?

Or GM could just let Dodge die and take a good chunk of Ram sales, nearly all Charger/Magnum sales with Zetas, a good chunk of Caliber sales with the HHR, Durango sales with the T900s, and not invest any money in Chrysler.

But they won't need to spend much on development costs. After the current Chryslers' model runs are over, GM will put them on their own newly developed platforms, drop their own new engines, transmissions, use similar interior materials and parts, ect. The development costs will be spread across all GM brands as well as the Chrysler brands. Of course, we don't want badge-engineered ex/interiors so they'll spend minimal development costs on differentiating everything and upholding brand's image (think Enclave - Outlook - Acadia or Sierra-Silverado-(Ram?) or Zeta=Charger,300,G8,RWD Buick)

In addition, Jeep is a niche brand that doesn't directly compete with any GM brands. Chrysler's image (near-luxury) can be made different from Buick's (near-luxury performance). Wouldn't you like to see sporty Buicks again?

Having the Charger, 300, G8, and Lucerne makes no sense. When there aren't LX cars on the market, the natural fit for LX owners is the Zetas. Therefore, GM would get nearly as many sales out of half as many vehicles. Hummer can take Jeep's sales (all Wrangler would go to the H4, a good chunk of GC sales would go to NG H3). Chrysler is certainly more sporting than Buick at this point in time.

The best thing for GM to do for GM's sake is nothing at all. Many of Chrysler's sales would probably go to GM considering the products GM is going to be putting out that are similar to the current popular Chryslers. GM also would have the daunting task of not only dealing with product issues, but dealer issues, plant issues, and personnel issues. The fact is that it's way too big of a project for GM to take over. Some private investors should take over Chrysler and give them the funding they need. GM cannot provide the funding that Chrysler needs to be turned around, and I see GM being put up for sale in a few years if they do in fact buy Chrysler.

[FAPTurbo]

"We'll cherry pick the stuff that matters. We'll take the minivans and offer them through select parts of our existing divisional lineup. We'll take the Jeep franchise because to be able to get it this cheap is a no-brainer, and we can fold it into our existing Hummer lineup. We'll delete the bad nameplate extensions they've been screwing around with, and we'll focus on the Wrangler, which will accelerate the development of the smaller 'H4' we've been playing with for four years now. As a matter of fact, we'll call the whole thing HummerJeep, and we're good. We'll take their best plants and use them to our advantage. We can accelerate our hot new rear-wheel-drive cars like the Pontiac G8, the new Chevrolet Impala, the Camaro and the Pontiac GTO to market by building them where the 300C/Magnum/Charger are being built, along with our own facilities. We'll extend our architecture-sharing technology program to include the Dodge truck lineup, but we'll eliminate the weak links and streamline that too. And we'll eliminate any other products that don't measure up, but we'll extend our exciting - and more contemporary - vehicle architectures to the ones worth keeping. When we get it all squared away, we'll have a stronger GM, plus the newly strengthened, newly focused company will not be knocked-off of its "No. 1 automaker in the world" perch for a long, long time - if ever."

Now that's what I like to hear.

[ZL-1]

Delorenzo offers up some interesting commentary on the topic. Here's what he thinks GM's train of though on the matter:

Link:http://autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

This could be interesting if and only if GM plays the 'scavenger' role very well. It's no time to get emotional about Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep, and if GM has an advantage in dismembering the Chrysler Group that's what they'll try and do: that's what 'cherry pick' means.

[NOS2006]

Just remember, there's not a market to simultaneously build a RWD Charger/300/Magnum/Impala/G8/Lucerne/CTS. I believe at least 2 of those would be cut, especially when you consider there's still going to be the GTO and Camaro built off the same platform.

Oh, and that is a really good exerpt from Delorenzo.

Edited February 23, 2007 by NOS2006

[intrigued]

I agree with everything Northstar said. The return on investment just wouldnt be worth it. If you were buying a healthy brand for 5 billion Id say go for its a no brainer. If the company was damaged but has a good sales volume that you could take over without assuming too much debt Id say take it.

Chysler group is neither of these. ITs a freaking nightmare. Billions and billions of debt that GM would have to assume, Even more UAW issues, Too many plants and emplyees, large groups of noncompetitive products near the end of their life cycles and even worse, brand new products that can barley compete like the sebring/avenger twins.

GM has made so much progress but is not out of the woods itself, this would plunge them down so deep into debt and while in pure sales volume they might stay in front on Toyota they would be loosing boatloads of money have huge product line overlaps to reconcile, would have to deal with new sales channels mass product ellimintations and possible division ellimination and we say how xpensive that was for GM to pay off the Olds dealers.

There just isnt enough benifit here to make it worth it.

Im not hating on Chrysler like Dodgefan accused me of in another thread, Iam just a GM fan first and foremost and it would not at all be in GM's best intrest to absord Chrsyler.

Like Northstar said, the best thing for GM would be to try and steel LX sales for zeta and RAM and SUV sales for the GMT 900s by letting Chrsyler wither and maybe even die by letting it become a resource strapped independent company or suffer a bad merger with Hundai or someone else. In which case GM could jocky for that other company's sales losses.

-Dan

[NOS2006]

Why can't Chrysler just separate and be its own company?

Wasn't it a "merge of equals" in the beginning? If so, Mercedes shouldn't have the right to sell a partner..

Still looking for an answer..

[ZL-1]

Why can't Chrysler just separate and be its own company?

It might.

The 'Private Equity may buy Chrysler' idea seems to have hit financial news websites: click here

I wonder what took them so long to figure this one out: Private Equity firms have been grabbing everything they can lately...

Edited February 23, 2007 by ZL-1

[Dragon]

it was a merger of equals in name only to soothe worries of chrysler investors. in reality it was a takeover of Chrysler by Daimler

[NOS2006]

Okay, so I just made a list of pros and cons. I came up with 11 points of pros, 4 points of cons, 3 points of neutrals, and I'm trying to develop a separate paragraph on cost issues (the most prevalant and notable cons). I don't see why so many people seem against this GM buying Chrysler. The points I found were both from my own findings and also from reading over every single post in this thread until now...

[NOS2006]

it was a merger of equals in name only to soothe worries of chrysler investors. in reality it was a takeover of Chrysler by Daimler

Oh yes, I completely understand that half. The half that I don't understand is.. did Daimler pay any money to Chrysler for them to merge? Or was it a completely free "Chrysler, do you take Daimler-Benz to be your demeaning master?" "I do." "Daimler, do you take this American company, Chrysler, to be your slave, bitch, and slutty housewife?" "Ja." And both parties signed the X on the line?

[Camino LS6]

If GM does buy Chrysler, I think the cold, hard realities will include the following:

- The end of the Viper

- Jeep given to Hummer with the Compass and other marginal Jeep products axed

- The LX cars axed (I really hope that the Challenger gets built first)

- The Ram axed

- The Nitro used for Chevy/GMC to replace the Trailblazer/Envoy as well as Equinox eventually

- The Durango,Dakota,Canyon and Colorado all dumped in favor of an all-new small truck

- Any future Chrysler that is not too far along to be immediately cancelled.

- The minvans given to Saturn and Chevy

- Production of all other Chrysler/Dodge products immediately stopped

- All unnecessary facilites closed and sold-off

- A phase-out of the Chrysler and Dodge brands as fast as legally possible with the rights being sold-off.

I'm sorry, but this is hardball and I don't see GM even attempting to save Chrysler and Dodge.

What I hope happens is that another American financial concern purchases Chrysler instead. The downsizing would still happen, but they could remain in the market.

The sad thing is that GM almost needs to do this.

[ZL-1]

Oh yes, I completely understand that half. The half that I don't understand is.. did Daimler pay any money to Chrysler for them to merge? Or was it a completely free "Chrysler, do you take Daimler-Benz to be your demeaning master?" "I do." "Daimler, do you take this American company, Chrysler, to be your slave, bitch, and slutty housewife?" "Ja." And both parties signed the X on the line?

IIRC the deal was a stock deal: people traded their Chrysler/Daimler shares for new Daimler-Chrysler shares. My girlfriend at the time was covering auto stocks and I remember all the excitement about the 'merger of equals' idea! think it was a 'free' decision because the idea I have is that the Chrysler side thought that having Daimler partner with them would have a stabilizing effect, ending Chrysler's 'almost-bankrupt-to-successful' rollercoaster. Edited February 23, 2007 by ZL-1

[Camino LS6]

...and maybe, just maybe, Viper could carry on as an independent company if the right investors step up.

[NOS2006]

- The LX cars axed (I really hope that the Challenger gets built first)

- The Nitro used for Chevy/GMC to replace the Trailblazer/Envoy as well as Equinox eventually

- The Durango,Dakota,Canyon and Colorado all dumped in favor of an all-new small truck

- The minivans given to Saturn and Chevy

- Production of all other Chrysler/Dodge products immediately stopped

- A phase-out of the Chrysler and Dodge brands as fast as legally possible with the rights being sold-off.

Not necessarily, Camino. First, you’re making it sound like GM would buy Chrysler to take a couple vehicles and kill it. If Chrysler were to just die, GM could probably develop the same vehicles (albeit with different names and possibly better quality/engineering) for much cheaper. Consider the costs it would inhibit to take these Chrysler vehicles (Nitro, Jeep, Caravan, etc.) just to simply cover the 5-year/100,000 mile prerequisite of being a GM vehicle. Then, along with that, it would cost millions, if not billions, to redesign, reengineer, and resource these vehicles to GM plants. And it would even make GM look like the bad guy in the end by being the actual murderer of the Chrysler Corporation, possibly putting the final straw on the GM camel’s back.

Now, aside from what I just wrote, I don’t see that it is absolutely necessary to do any of what the above quote states. I’ve outlined this in the report I’m making.

- Jeep given to Hummer with the Compass and other marginal Jeep products axed

Again, this would just kill off Jeep. Many Jeep owners are happy with the vehicles they’ve purchased, and this is probably one of Chrysler’s better name-recognized brands because of the style vehicles they make. I don’t know many people who have bought Jeeps and been pissed about buying them. Not quite the same story if you ask a Chrysler or Dodge buyer about their new vehicle…

- The end of the Viper

...and maybe, just maybe, Viper could carry on as an independent company if the right investors step up.

I don’t see a one-model Viper brand being able to carry on, especially when the Viper isn’t a huge selling model. And, I don’t see why everybody is saying this, but Viper and ‘Vette could easily co-exist because they could easily be marketed to different customers, as they currently are for the most part. Some people do cross-shop the Z06 and Viper, but the upcoming StingRay will be in a completely different class, just as the base Corvette currently is. I’ve also outlined this in my own little strategy.

[carman21]

There's one Mopar fan that can buy Chrysler cash.

Bill Gates

[vrazzhledazzle]

It might.

The 'Private Equity may buy Chrysler' idea seems to have hit financial news websites: click here

I wonder what took them so long to figure this one out: Private Equity firms have been grabbing everything they can lately...

I read something similar that mentioned 4 US private equity groups that might be interested.

Breaking - Finanical Times: Four private equity groups interested in Chrysler Group

February 22nd, 2007

Among the private equity groups mentioned:

The Carlyle Group - carlyle.com

Apollo Management L.P - wikipedia.org

The Blackstone Group - blackstone.com

Cerberus Capital Management, L.P - Cerberuscapital.com

According to people familiar with the matter, Apollo Management, Blackstone, Carlyle, and Cerberus Capital Management - as well as several European firms - were contacted about their potential interest in acquiring Chrysler before last week’s announcement by DaimlerChrysler that “all options are on the table” for the unit. Those discussions continued after the announcement, these people said.

Private equity groups show interest in Chrysler - ft.com

More to come

http://www.chryslerweblog.com (scroll down a little bit when you open the link)

Edited February 23, 2007 by vrazzhledazzle

[invertigo]

Why are so many of you folks even "entertaining" this ridiculous plot? No offense , but I'm not really thinking that some of you can see the bigger picture.

I see absolutely NO way that this would make good business sense. Any GM sponsored buyout will result in massive numbers of lost jobs. Operating Chrysler as an independent entity will not prevent this from happening.

If they are primarily concerned with maintaining that magical #1 spot, then that is pathetic as well. That kind of mentality is partially what drove GM to near ruin. They are not going to be #1 unless they can fix the problems they already have, buying Chrysler can, in no way, fix that.

The idea that there can be a product integration is complete nonsense, it would not work. You can't have a myriad of different platforms and make that economically viable, GM has already realized this. Furthermore, what would be the point of re-badging GM platforms and selling them as a Caliber, or 300 or Ram? Having to much of a similar thing will not work either.

Why would having a inventory blowout sale help GM? If they sold all of those acquired Chrysler vehicles at a fraction of their value, GM would lose sales of their own products, how is that going to help?

There is nothing technologically advantageous about assuming Chrysler. The have nothing that is significantly better. I could care less if they "own" the minivan market... that's not worth the other entanglements.

Chrysler does not "deserve" to die, by any means. The thing is, GM cannot afford to risk it's own future by becoming tied up with a huge logistical nightmare that is well beyond what they are already facing.

Maybe we can all breathe a little easier when some investment company buys Chrysler and saves it from ruining GM or being ruined by another foreign car maker.

Just my two cents

[ZL-1]

Well... it's fun to entertain the thought of how GM and Ford could get some advantage from this if in fact Chrysler is put up for sale :AH-HA_wink:

Also, given the Rover story and the news/rumours of PE funds being interested in Chrysler, things get interesting: a PE fund would want to sell the company after a few years making a good return, so they'd tend to move fast and agressively in restructuring Chrysler. PE funds are said to have high liquidity right now, so raising the cash for a quick and decisive restructuring wouldn't be that much of an issue per se. Other things, such as the magnitude and payback period of such investments, as well as other not-so-tiny details such as the extent to which Chrysler's engineering capabilites may or may not be left intact after a sale (DCX might want to drain the best people that are currently working for Chrysler, for example) could be major issues.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Why are so many of you folks even "entertaining" this ridiculous plot? No offense , but I'm not really thinking that some of you can see the bigger picture.

Many of us, including myself, don't want Chrysler to be bought by GM. However, it seems there is a fair likelyhood of that happening which is why we are "entertaining" the idea.

I see absolutely NO way that this would make good business sense. Any GM sponsored buyout will result in massive numbers of lost jobs. Operating Chrysler as an independent entity will not prevent this from happening.

From what we know, it doesN'T make good business sense, but, think of it this way: It keeps a major part of the US auto industry away from competitors hands, especially the Chinese and Koreans (who might soon be as big of an enemy as Toyota). Keeping Chrysler intact even under new owners will save jobs, that's after the impending 13,000 cuts though.

If they are primarily concerned with maintaining that magical #1 spot, then that is pathetic as well. That kind of mentality is partially what drove GM to near ruin. They are not going to be #1 unless they can fix the problems they already have, buying Chrysler can, in no way, fix that.

Actually buying Chrysler will keep GM #1 for years to come (depending on what they do with it), but I do pray to god that GM doesn't have the mentality of 'anything to remain #1"...that would make them no better than Toyota.

The idea that there can be a product integration is complete nonsense, it would not work. You can't have a myriad of different platforms and make that economically viable, GM has already realized this. Furthermore, what would be the point of re-badging GM platforms and selling them as a Caliber, or 300 or Ram? Having to much of a similar thing will not work either.

I agree, product integration is too complicated, requires too much money, and its just flat out stupid. That's why I was suggesting that Chrysler should remain a seperate corporation, UNDER GM, creating vehicles using components FROM GM. There won't be additional platforms other than the ones currently under development. Development costs for Chrysler will be minimal because they will be spread out throughout GM which would include all GM brands as well as the three seperate Chrysler brands.

Why would having a inventory blowout sale help GM? If they sold all of those acquired Chrysler vehicles at a fraction of their value, GM would lose sales of their own products, how is that going to help?

That's why I suggested selling all '06 leftover Chrysler inventory to fleets (an article estimated 50,000 Chrysler vehicles from 2006 are looking for buyers - that's a pullback of 50,000 of GM cars that will be sold to fleets...a much needed reduction).

There is nothing technologically advantageous about assuming Chrysler. The have nothing that is significantly better. I could care less if they "own" the minivan market... that's not worth the other entanglements.

I don't recall anyone saying Chrysler is technologically advanced... minivans, Jeep, LX cars, among other things are CG's advantageous things. That's why GM would drop its own engines, interiors, ect.

Chrysler does not "deserve" to die, by any means. The thing is, GM cannot afford to risk it's own future by becoming tied up with a huge logistical nightmare that is well beyond what they are already facing.

True, true, true. Chrysler deserves to be its own American corporation again... wishful thinking.

Maybe we can all breathe a little easier when some investment company buys Chrysler and saves it from ruining GM or being ruined by another foreign car maker.

That's the idea and the best possible scenario...an american equity company buying it, but I'm afraid those types of people will mess it up to the point where it will die completely.

[Intrepidation]

Not necessarily, Camino. First, you’re making it sound like GM would buy Chrysler to take a couple vehicles and kill it. If Chrysler were to just die, GM could probably develop the same vehicles (albeit with different names and possibly better quality/engineering) for much cheaper. Consider the costs it would inhibit to take these Chrysler vehicles (Nitro, Jeep, Caravan, etc.) just to simply cover the 5-year/100,000 mile prerequisite of being a GM vehicle. Then, along with that, it would cost millions, if not billions, to redesign, reengineer, and resource these vehicles to GM plants. And it would even make GM look like the bad guy in the end by being the actual murderer of the Chrysler Corporation, possibly putting the final straw on the GM camel’s back.

Now, aside from what I just wrote, I don’t see that it is absolutely necessary to do any of what the above quote states. I’ve outlined this in the report I’m making.

Again, this would just kill off Jeep. Many Jeep owners are happy with the vehicles they’ve purchased, and this is probably one of Chrysler’s better name-recognized brands because of the style vehicles they make. I don’t know many people who have bought Jeeps and been pissed about buying them. Not quite the same story if you ask a Chrysler or Dodge buyer about their new vehicle…

I don’t see a one-model Viper brand being able to carry on, especially when the Viper isn’t a huge selling model. And, I don’t see why everybody is saying this, but Viper and ‘Vette could easily co-exist because they could easily be marketed to different customers, as they currently are for the most part. Some people do cross-shop the Z06 and Viper, but the upcoming StingRay will be in a completely different class, just as the base Corvette currently is. I’ve also outlined this in my own little strategy.

The Viper could be marketed differently. It's more hardcore and the Corvette is more everyday/casual. Of course, Daimler doesn't give a $h! who would buy them or what they did with Chrysler.

I don't want anyone to buy Chrysler unless it means it becoming it's own company again (and American at that). This includes GM, but if it were to happen, and assuming GM kept Chrysler intact, it would be the lesser evil. Of course if all it did was scrap most of the models and brands and just used the leftovers for itself, I would hate GM forever.

There's one Mopar fan that can buy Chrysler cash.

Bill Gates

He likes Mopar?

[NOS2006]

The Viper could be marketed differently. It's more hardcore and the Corvette is more everyday/casual.

So, in other words, you agree with me. lol

[BrewSwillis]

There is no way GM buys Chrysler. There would be no point. GM already has everything Chrysler has (including over capacity), and more....assuming they are adding RWD/AWD sedans soon. They wouldn't buy Chrysler just to get Jeep.......and any company that does will be brought down by the curse: http://jalopnik.com/cars/commentary/what-k...yway-238259.php

GM does not need more clones of each version of their vehicles.....and there's no way they could resist sharing platforms/engines/transmissions even if they would claim to keep brands separate. It's just flat out not gonna happen!

[turbo200]

when I look at Chrysler, the only things i would consider truly worth buying into, at this point, are the Ram volume, the minivan volume/tech, and the Jeep brand. I still see a private equity as the best way out unless GM can get rid of the UAW somehow through this deal.

Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep could all make a comeback, on the backing of better products [with actually desirable design, but that's a whole other stupid DCX exec-created problem]. They would need to refocus; quality and reliability are the priority, if you can match the feel and performance and quality of the best cars out there, you have a great chance. But that's a tall order, and seriously speaking, the old Accord is way ahead of the Sebring in terms of overall execution, the Aura is just a more interesting car, there are many relevant options out there, cars like the Sebring, Caliber from what I've seen are not truly desirable. Combine that with a bad reputation for reliability and the quality feel that is severely lacking, and you have a mountain to climb. Also, America's ever increasing turn towards imports. But they are not beyond rescue, and they have valuable brands I mentioned above, and some core loyal buyers.

I actually think GM has the right tech and the right vision to do something special for Chrysler. I see the Chrysler brand pretty close to the Buick brand in terms of the "ladder", and I think they both have a consistent image of that, with Chrysler coming off stronger because of the 300. If GM were to continue to cater to the image and market of these brands, with stronger cars in the future, they could do something. The Dodge Ram truck, I could envision being a really strong, differently drawn, like the Dodge truck/crossover concept that came out recently, alternative to Chevy/GMC; but I can also see this as brand overlap and brand overkill for GM.

If there were a way GM could truly cherry pick, all the while leveraging the UAW out of the factories, or getting to drop some serious concessions, we could have a saved American industry, possibly.

That is the major issue at Chrysler, and GM too, obviously, is the UAW that holds them back.

GM would have to play it right with the right cars, and I'm still waiting for this to happen at the real GM. It is happenning at GM, they need to continue to make bold aggressive chances, and build cars that are incredibly desirable. If GM cars like the Camaro/G8 can be so high quality in production form, I know Chrysler would benefit from this, and they'd get to stay alive.

I don't see this as the right decision for GM, I think they have enough problems and enough brands with possibilities/potential. the main problem is they haven't realized the vision of these brands. To manage so many brands consistently well, we'd have to take a leap of faith and trust GM they can fix their own problems and someone else's problems.

Unless they plan on just choking Chrysler, which would suck for Dodge/Chry fans.

[turbo200]

Just remember, there's not a market to simultaneously build a RWD Charger/300/Magnum/Impala/G8/Lucerne/CTS. I believe at least 2 of those would be cut, especially when you consider there's still going to be the GTO and Camaro built off the same platform.

we don't know that. Before any of this hoopla, I was thinking they could all survive together. they haven't even had the chance to be on the market, and we know next to nothing on the potential of Zeta cars, aside from G8.

the other question I'd have is does Chrysler get to keep the future tech work, if any they've had with Daimler Benz. like the SUV work for the next Grand cherokee, or even the future LX plans and MB trannies/drivelines. Or maybe GM really doesn't need to care about that stuff...

[ehaase]

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/...index+page_news

Even if all the breaks go GM's way, though, it would be a messy slog. Put simply, buying Chrysler would double down on many of GM's existing problems. GM would pare the Chrysler lineup into one retail channel focusing on the best models: the Dodge Ram pickup and Charger sedan; the Jeep Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Liberty, and Patriot; the Chrysler 300 and minivans. Even so, GM would be left with an unwieldy 11 brands to support in the U.S. with marketing and strategy.

[Satty]

Maybe they can buy Chrysler and make them (with the exception of Jeep) fleet only.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Earlier on either this or last page I posted four private equity firms that might buy Chrylser.

Since we seem to agree that Chrysler would benefit much more that GM from a potential merger/sale unless GM has money to pump into Chrysler group..(in which case GM would make money from a potential buyout)

WHAT IF

Chrysler was bought by one of these equity firms. They provide the funding (healthcare costs, all other money to take them out of the red) as well as funding for development costs (design) AND GM can provide the powertrains (engines, transmissions, ect.)GM gets paid for this and also get a huge stake in Chrysler and at the same time manages to keep it out of the hands of China or other rival automakers who want a bigger presence in the US

[Satty]

I doubt GM would be sad if the Chinese bought Chrysler. The quality would probably get even worse, as if that was possible.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Maybe they can buy Chrysler and make them (with the exception of Jeep) fleet only.

Dude that seem like a good idea. Would it work?

[vrazzhledazzle]

I doubt GM would be sad if the Chinese bought Chrysler. The quality would probably get even worse, as if that was possible.

I would be sad and every American should be because a big part of the AMERICAN auto industry (which is bad) would be gone and used by China to important their trashass cars.

[vrazzhledazzle]

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/...index+page_news

Even if all the breaks go GM's way, though, it would be a messy slog. Put simply, buying Chrysler would double down on many of GM's existing problems. GM would pare the Chrysler lineup into one retail channel focusing on the best models: the Dodge Ram pickup and Charger sedan; the Jeep Wrangler, Grand Cherokee, Liberty, and Patriot; the Chrysler 300 and minivans. Even so, GM would be left with an unwieldy 11 brands to support in the U.S. with marketing and strategy.

You missed the beginning of that article:

It seems like a loopy idea, combining one flailing carmaker with another that is struggling to slim down. But this scenario has one big advantage—it would be the fastest way for DaimlerChrysler to be rid of Chrysler. If he decides to push the button on a deal, GM Chairman and CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. would be betting that for a negligible price he could add Chrysler's $62 billion in yearly revenue, or much of it, while cutting a big chunk of the structural costs. GM envisions selling close to 11.6 million vehicles per year worldwide through the combined company, but with a smaller staff of engineers, accountants, public-relations people, lawyers, and so on. GM accountants and strategists estimate they could save billions a year by merging the companies.

GM would need the cooperation of the United Auto Workers—and not just on reducing health-care costs. A deal could require the loss of 10,000 to 15,000 of the combined 125,000 production workers, so GM would need to arrange a buyout of some kind, says Sean P. McAlinden, chief economist at the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor, Mich. The UAW has to figure that Chrysler jobs are going to be lost in any case, and workers would get the best security guarantees under GM.

:AH-HA_wink:

[Northstar]

Dude that seem like a good idea. Would it work?

Are you kidding me? That would be the dumbest idea ever. Why would GM spend $13 billion so that they can get a new line of vehicles to sell to fleets? If they want to spend $13 billion of fleet vehicles, they might as well just kill themselves. They should just make different versions of each car (rename vehicles) and sell them to fleets so that they Malibu has 0 fleet sales, the Cobalt has 0 fleet sales, etc.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Are you kidding me? That would be the dumbest idea ever. Why would GM spend $13 billion so that they can get a new line of vehicles to sell to fleets? If they want to spend $13 billion of fleet vehicles, they might as well just kill themselves. They should just make different versions of each car (rename vehicles) and sell them to fleets so that they Malibu has 0 fleet sales, the Cobalt has 0 fleet sales, etc.

I was being sarcastic

If I agreed I would've said "Perfect." or "Exactly." and then repeat what he said and explain why it works (if you look at my posts before this, that is what I do when I agree with them.

[Satty]

Daimler doesn't want Chrysler. GM shouldn't want Chrysler. Ford doesn't want (and likely cannot afford) Chrysler. Best chance for Chrysler would be the Chinese.

[vrazzhledazzle]

No, the best chance for Chrysler would be anyone BUT the Chinese AS LONG AS they have the funding to do something with it. Ideally, Chrysler gets bought by an american private equity firm.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

If GM buys them they should revive plymouth and make them purely a muscle car company. Nothing else and low volume if they must, but hopefully it would appeal to make it compete with the mustang.

I've often thought about this...

Imagine how well limited edition Plymouth muscle cars would do, like a new 'Cuda built from LX.

Heck, they'd just have to rebody the car, beef up the performance to very high levels and sell them through Chrysler dealers as a model.... Such as Plymouth 'Cuda (Much like Geo was to Chevrolet, especially in the later days)

I'm sure it would never be profittable, but cool none the less.

[Ravenfreak13]

very cool...

[Oracle of Delphi]

I think GM wants them just to shut down the competition from Chrysler and to keep the Jap car companies from buying them. IMHO!

[FAPTurbo]

If the Chinese buy it out, you will likely see tons upon tons of cash being pumped into Chrysler, and within a few years, each brand will have some of the best looking, and nicest vehicles on North American soil.

Not my favorite scenario, but one that is better than Chrysler's total demise.

[ehaase]

It wouldn't surprise me if no one bids enough for Chrysler, and Daimler will be stuck with it.

Edited February 24, 2007 by ehaase

[Dragon]

I doubt GM would be sad if the Chinese bought Chrysler. The quality would probably get even worse, as if that was possible.

Short-term perhaps. Long term, I could see them pulling a Toyota and going from $h! to #1 in the world

[CaddyXLR-V]

Too many emotions and not enough business sense.

The only way I see GM buying Chrysler, is if GM bought them, filed for bankruptcy, bought the pieces that have some value for cheap, and dumped the rest, including the excess capacity and workers, then using that as an example for the rest of the UAW, picking up some additional sales in the process without added capacity.

Having the factories running closer to 100% may well be worth the cheap price GM could probably get Chrysler for. And despite all the comments about how bad this is for the American car makers, this would actually put both GM and Ford in a better position to make better cars to better compete against Toyota, and the other foreign competitors.

Edited February 24, 2007 by CaddyXLR-V

[ZL-1]

I think GM wants them just to shut down the competition from Chrysler and to keep the Jap car companies from buying them. IMHO!

I think GM has a better chance of achieving that by pumping the $5bn or $10bn into product development instead of acquisitions.

[Robert Hall]

Another party that I heard may be interested in Chrysler is the auto supplier Magna.

[Dragon]

Another party that I heard may be interested in Chrysler is the auto supplier Magna.

they got the money, they have the expertise in the parts and hell, they already make Chrysler's and Jeeps over in Austria. On a purely patriotic level, i'd love to see a Canadian automaker.

I wonder how/if this would effect their parts business though. I dont' see GM, Ford or anybody else wanting to let their competitor make their parts. But on the flip side, as those contracts run out, they could just replace them with their own internal parts.

[vrazzhledazzle]

Well, I still want something American (even GM) to at least buy a stake in Chrysler.

[Viperfan07]

And, I don’t see why everybody is saying this, but Viper and ‘Vette could easily co-exist because they could easily be marketed to different customers, as they currently are for the most part.

You hit the nail on the head.