It's official. Chrysler's up for auction...NOT?

[vrazzhledazzle]

March 07, 2007

Here is a link to an article posted by DBeaSSt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070307/bs_nm/...w_chrysler_dc_1

March 01, 2007

In Chrysler's For-Sale Saga, Another One Bites the Dust

SHANGHAI, China — China's largest auto group, SAIC, said it has no plans to buy Chrysler or any other overseas firm. The company was responding to media reports that it has been talking with DaimlerChrysler.

Two years ago, SAIC acquired a controlling interest in Korean utility-vehicle make Ssangyong, and the company also holds a minority interest in GM Daewoo.

Reuters quoted an SAIC spokeswoman as saying, "We have no plans for acquisitions at the moment."

Another rumored Chinese suitor, FAW, also denied interest in buying Chrysler, joining such multinational car companies as Volkswagen, Fiat, Renault-Nissan and Hyundai in throwing cold water on rampant media speculation.

At the moment, General Motors appears to remain the sole automaker with an interest in Chrysler. The Financial Times reported earlier that DaimlerChrysler might take a stake in GM as part of a possible deal involving Chrysler.

What this means to you: With the Chinese, it's not a question of money. With Chrysler, it is starting to be a question of who's left.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119807

February 26, 2007

DCX could swap Chrysler to GM in exchange for a stake in the General

This is getting weirder by the moment. Now reports out of London suggest DaimlerChrysler is looking at taking a minority stake in GM as a means of off-loading money-losing Chrysler. The deal would work something like this: GM takes over Chrysler and in return DaimlerChrysler buys GM stock. Basically, DaimlerChrysler would give GM the money to buy Chrysler.

The way the analysts play it, GM gets Chrysler without spending cash, and DaimlerChrysler ends up owning a slice of a GM/Chrysler combine. Now, I’m no finance guy, but I’m struggling to see exactly why this would be a good deal for GM.

In an earlier blog, I maintained there was simply no upside in Chrysler for GM. That’s still the case.

Most of Chrysler’s product lineup competes directly with GM models and Chrysler brands are far weaker globally. There could be some savings in purchasing generic parts, but proper platform sharing scenarios would take at least a decade to put into place. And then there are the issues of over-capacity and legacy costs: Both GM and Chrysler need fewer factories in the U.S., and both are paying a fortune in health care costs and other benefits that makes them uncompetitive with other automakers. Rolling Chrysler into GM doesn’t solve these problems. It only makes them bigger.

Functionally, Chrysler is a basket case, for a bunch of reasons. Through most of 2006, its senior management team pursued a disastrous policy of keeping the factories churning out vehicles that weren’t selling, and stockpiling them on lots before forcing them on reluctant dealers with deep discounts that destroyed their resale value. The “sales bank” idea didn’t work in the 1960s. Forty years later, Chrysler’s bosses have proven it still doesn’t work.

The design leadership Chrysler assumed in the 80s and 90s has been lost to GM and Ford. Exhibit A: The new Sebring, a lumpen mish-mash of over-wrought Crossfire cues. Then there’s the new Dodge Avenger, Jeep Compass and Commander, the boxy new minivans – none of these vehicles has the style, grace and flair we came to expect under Tom Gale.

A couple of commentators suggest the cost, aggravation and distraction of GM taking over Chrysler would be worth it to get hold of Jeep and the minivan business. I just don’t see it.

Jeep is still a fabulous brand, despite DaimlerChrysler’s best efforts with vehicles like the soft-road Compass (not just bad to look at and cheaply finished, but so off-brand it would devalue the Jeep name if enough folks actually bought one) and the Commander (an ugly box that singularly fails to do the one job it was allegedly designed to do – have useful third row seating). But if GM seriously thought there was a lot of money to be made in building trail-rated SUVs, it could make Hummer work a whole lot better for a lot less money.

Some goes for the minivans. Sure, it’s a sizeable market segment. But Chrysler’s leadership position – held out as a juicy plum for GM to pick – is now due more to market inertia than any real product innovation. Maintaining that leadership against automakers like Toyota and Hyundai is going to require ever increasing levels of investment over the coming years.

Minivans are increasingly becoming commodity vehicles; you won’t be able to charge a fat premium for them much longer, which favors the low cost Asian producers. What’s more, the generation of kids that grew up riding around in minivans is less likely to want to drive their mom’s car when they grow it. Yes, the minivan could go the way of the station wagon. This is precisely the wrong time for GM to jump back into the minivan business.

After years of mis-steps and wrong-headed management, GM is now starting to coalesce into a focused automaker with effectively leveraged global resources. Chrysler’s problems are all short-term problems, and a distraction GM management just doesn’t need. GM needs to be thinking about – and spending money on – long term stuff like hybrids, diesels, weight reduction, CO2 emissions. Doing that, rather than taking on the Chrysler mess, it what will make GM a stronger company in 20 years’ time.

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6203303/editor...saga/index.html

DCX to launch $13 billion auction of Chrysler; Hyundai not interested

U.S. investment bank JPMorgan is making final preparations before starting an auction of the Chrysler Group on behalf of DaimlerChrysler, according to a report by the U.K.'s Times. The news follows a shocking report from last week suggesting General Motors might be considering buying Chrysler.

While reports of a possible Daimler-Chrysler de-merger were met with much skepticism in the auto industry, rumors continue to swirl, with no official denials coming from GM or DaimlerChrysler. Typically, automakers issue statements to the press rejecting rumors of this magnitude, if they are false.

The Times report also indicated Korean automaker Hyundai might be interested in buying the group. Hyundai swiftly issued a statement saying its "hands are full" and it has no intention of buying the American company.

Currently, General Motors is the only party known to be in talks with DaimlerChrysler about an acquisition. GM is said to have particular interest in Jeep and Dodge, but would consider buying the whole group if necessary.

Such a deal would result in a close integration of the Chrysler Group into the GM family, with overlapping products being axed, possible rebreeding, and the pairing of compatible brands like Jeep and Hummer.

JPMorgan will reportedly send information memorandums to a number of potential suitors as soon as the end of this week. If sold, the Chrysler Group would likely go for $13 billion, the report said.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/19/dcx...not-interested/

____________________________________________________________

February 23, 2007

UPDATE:

Chrysler Rumor Mill Reaches a Fever Pitch

DETROIT: Even as Chrysler Group CEO Thomas LaSorda sought to soothe the company's uneasy employees via e-mail, media speculation over the ultimate fate of Chrysler reached a frenzied pitch on Friday.

Volkswagen was the latest multinational carmaker to deny an interest in acquiring the ailing U.S. auto group from parent DaimlerChrysler. DCX Chairman Dieter Zetsche triggered the initial spate of publicity with his announcement that the company would pursue "all options" in response to Chrysler's financial skid, including a spin-off or sale.

In Europe, the Financial Times reported that at least four private-equity groups are holding preliminary talks to buy Chrysler. Reports in Europe say DaimlerChrysler's asking price is 10 billion euros or about U.S.$13 billion.

Among the U.S. private-equity groups said to be in discussions with DaimlerChrysler are Apollo Management, Blackstone Group, Carlyle Group and Cerberus Capital Management. The auto unit of Cerberus is run by David Thursfield, an auto-industry veteran who once ran Ford's European operations.

VW joined a string of corporate deniers that now includes Fiat, Hyundai, Mitsubishi and Renault-Nissan. In response to press speculation, all have said they have no interest in acquiring Chrysler, which posted an operating loss of $1.5 billion in 2006.

Press pundits also suggested that one or more state-owned Chinese automakers could be preparing to make a bid for Chrysler. Prospective bidders could include First Auto and Shanghai Auto, the country's two largest carmakers.

Another oft-rumored suitor, General Motors, has declined to comment on media speculation that it has discussed a possible platform-sharing arrangement with Chrysler, similar to the deal under which Chrysler next year will provide VW with a version of its redesigned 2008 Town & Country minivan.

In Detroit, LaSorda has sought to reassure nervous employees and dealers with a series of e-mails and conference calls, according to local press reports.

Chrysler began sending out terms of its latest early-retirement and buyout packages, which aim to cut 13,000 blue- and white-collar workers from the payroll. The initial package, which is being presented only to salaried non-union employees, offers early-retirement incentives to workers as young as 53. Chrysler hopes to eliminate 1,000 white-collar jobs by June and another 1,000 by 2008. The company's contract with the United Auto Workers expires later this year.

LaSorda told employees that a potential deal to sell or spin off Chrysler could take "months" rather than weeks to negotiate.

What this means to you: Don't be surprised to see Chrysler wind up in the hands of a major U.S. investment fund.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119720

And another article that sort of compliments the above one.

Analysts say 50/50 chance for GM-Chrysler tie-up

General Motors stands a 50 percent chance of buying Chrysler, Jeep, and Dodge from DaimlerChrysler, according to Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy, who said such a move would be a "defensive maneuver."

"Given the transformation the U.S. industry is beginning, we would not rule out a tie-up," Murphy said in a memo to investors today. "GM may view the acquisition as a defensive maneuver to box out new competition."

With Toyota's sales climbing, GM's "global volume lead is certainly in question," he said. "The acquisition of Chrysler would certainly allow GM to maintain its crown for many years to come."

Chrysler could add as much as $9 billion in value to GM due to products and "operating efficiencies including reduced research and development and advertising costs per vehicle," Jon Rogers, an analyst at Citigroup.

The UAW might also be more willing to make concessions if Chrysler is owned by an American company rather than a foreign one, Rogers said.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/02/20/ana...hrysler-tie-up/

FIAT S.p.A

HYUNDAI-KIA

NISSAN-RENAULT

MITSUBISHI

VOLKSWAGEN AG

GAZ (Russian)

BMW GROUP

TOYOTA http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/toyo...33914A4758EA%7D

SAIC/FAW Source

So far, all the above have explicitly said they have no interest in Chrysler which unfortunately supports the above-quoted article.

Apollo Management

Blackstone Group

Carlyle Group

Cerberus Capital Management

General Motors

So far, all the above are though to have expressed interest in the Chrysler Group.

DaimlerChrysler : There is still a possiblity that Mercedes and Chrysler remain together according to some reports.

Edited March 8, 2007 by vrazzhledazzle

[schuby87]

I think GM has their hands full right now. I dont think buying Chrysler would be such a good idea.

[!!!TED!!!]

13 Billion? Thats it?

[ZL-1]

13 Billion? Thats it?

Depends on what they're selling, e.g. if some of DCX's debt is being passed on to the buyer. Edited February 21, 2007 by ZL-1

[Sixty8panther]

Yeah.... funny how "little" it seems in the grand scheme of things.

I do not hate the idea of GM buying Mopar but it would not be a

smart move right now, plus there's more cons than pros IMHO.

[Flybrian]

Is there...is there a reserve?

[Mr.Krinkle]

No one is interested in Chrysler. Daimler wants it gone asap because its starting to suck the life out of mercedes. BMW, audi and others are pulling ahead because of it. It is putting them at a disadvantage that will continue until its gone.

Any price will be good enough.

The auction is a way to draw GM out into making a decision sooner than later. The five billion number has been bandied about and at that price it probably is a steal. Fritz Henderson may be one of the best things to happen to GM in a long time.

You know hes been hatching a scheme to make this do-able..

For no other reason than they have showed an interest in this tells me they know something we are probably missing.

I wonder how W.P. Chrysler would feel about his old bosses buying out his company. Sounds like old school GM.

[Cadillacfan]

It's sad that Daimler executives couldn't stick it out any longer and try to save the Chrysler arm of the company considering that Benz has been doing so well these past few years and allowing the company as a whole to turn a decent profit.

I guess if they, a german based company, can't fix the problems of the American branch, it sort of proves that GM and Ford's difficulty to turn things around quicker financially has really little to do with incompetence of the Detroit executives but more to do with the overall environment of the US automotive industry and all things related to that field. Very little help from federal and state governments in terms of taking over some pension and healthcare costs, constant and sometimes unfair criticism by the American automotive press, and the continuous assistance to foreign companies to build their factories here aren't helping the matter.

Getting back to the topic at hand, GM should have nothing to do with this. Who wants to take on that much responsibility when they're still trying to fix their own failed business model.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Cadillacfan

[CARBIZ]

When I had originally heard that Daimler was "merging" with Chrysler years ago, I thought at the time that it was a marriage made in heaven. I figured Chrysler could teach Daimler to design vehicles quicker to market, their new design center was a dream, and that Daimler could fix all of Chrysler's engineering woes - plus, Chrysler got access to Europe and Daimler had access to North America.

What the hell happened? This marriage of equals should have created an engineering/design powerhouse. Instead, we get this mess.

If GM can get Chrysler for the right price, I guess their are synergies here. I certainly understand GM's concern not to let VW, Hyundai or anybody else get their hands on it. Sometimes, the smartest thing to do is close out your competitor, or just not let it fall into other competitor's hands.

I would be a very rich man today if I had followed that advice 17 years ago when I had my own company.

[Northstar]

So, if no one buys it, then what...?

[AxelTheRed]

So, if no one buys it, then what...?

Then its probably the end of Chrysler.

A little red ink and they're off to the auction block. Such commitment.

Edited February 21, 2007 by AxelTheRed

[ZL-1]

marriage of equals

I think a big part of the problem is people believed a 'merger of equals' would actually take place. IMHO, 'merger of equals' is a concept fit for a marriage, not business deals.

So, if no one buys it, then what...?

Whatever is cheaper: restructure its way to profitability, shut it down or let it die a slow death.

[andy82471]

Let us just face it; there are just too many companies trying to make and sell automobile for a living. And like the rule of the jungle, only the strong survives. It could very well happen that five years from now GM is the only true American auto company remaining. Ford and Chrysler would only be a memory by then. I seriously hope that doesn't happen because fair competition actually benefits the customers. I don't want Toyota and Honda to be the only automakers in the world. That would be very bad for consumers everywhere. I have no idea why a company like Daimler Benz with its legendary history couldn't run Chrysler Motors.

[Intrepidation]

Not long ago it was Chrysler being profitable and saving the company's ass while Mercedes was up $h! creek because of their horrible quality problems. Chrysler has a few bad months and now their up for auction. I really hate the bastards in Germany who'd rather take the easy way out than commit. The merger was a bad idea to begin with. Honestly, if someone had to buy it I guess it should be GM since at least that would make Chrysler American again. But that would just make the company another brand for GM, not a real company anymore. Plus GM has enough brands to worry about, the last thing they need is more. I wish they'd just split Chrysler Group away from Mercedes and allow it to be it's own company again.

[Satty]

I hope the Chinese buy it, thats what Chrysler deserves.

[VenSeattle]

Funny... skip back a few years ago, and there was a law suit requesting this to be done. Now, they're having problems giving Chrysler Group away.

[Satty]

Ohhh....Ven just made me think of something. What about Kirk?

[vrazzhledazzle]

So, if no one buys it, then what...?

Well remember guys, the article says the Chrysler group is up for auction, I'm sure they could auction parts of it if necessary. If Daimler is desperate enough to get it off their hands they would split the brands up. I remember reading that last year MBenz made a $1 Billion and Chrysler (just that one brand) lost $1 Billion. I don't think Jeep and Dodge are that unprofitable (I think they actually made a profit?).

[PONTIAC06]

If GM is really "particularly interested" in Dodge and Jeep, then I'm sure that they can get just those brands at auction if Daimler is as desperate as they sound. I'm just wondering if that were to happen, where would that put Chrysler? To be picked up by someone else, or will it just die?

[Northstar]

Why would GM be interested in Dodge? I guess that would give them a minivan, but GM already has products in every segment Dodge does, and most Dodges suck. Jeep, I can see them buying.

I guess the Ram, Silverado, and Sierra could all share a platform too, but Dodge cars and Pontiac cars overlap way too much. Charger and G8, Avenger and G6, Caliber and Vibe, Nitro and Torrent. I just don't see that working, unless Dodge is becoming the Durango off T900, Ram off T900, Grand Caravan, and I guess they could keep the Caliber since the Vibe is probably not sticking around. Dodge is trucks/vans/Caliber and Pontiac is cars? That's like Pontiac/GMC though...

Essentially, this would give GM three brands with very limited product range. Dodge, Buick, and Pontiac. I say if anything, only buy Jeep. The only value I see in Dodge is the Ram and Caravan.

[Dragon]

so what could GM actually use from Chrysler Dodge Jeep? From what I gather the Jeep brand, the Caliber & its kick ass SRT-engine, HEMI engine brand, Minivans and maybe the Nitro (cool aggressive little truck)?

They dont' really need Dodge's trucks since tehy have a full lineup of their own, brand new 900's. They could also dump the LX's (once Zeta is in full swing), and of course, there is no use for the Avenger/Sebring twins

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

When I had originally heard that Daimler was "merging" with Chrysler years ago, I thought at the time that it was a marriage made in heaven. I figured Chrysler could teach Daimler to design vehicles quicker to market, their new design center was a dream, and that Daimler could fix all of Chrysler's engineering woes - plus, Chrysler got access to Europe and Daimler had access to North America.

What the hell happened? This marriage of equals should have created an engineering/design powerhouse. Instead, we get this mess.

If GM can get Chrysler for the right price, I guess their are synergies here. I certainly understand GM's concern not to let VW, Hyundai or anybody else get their hands on it. Sometimes, the smartest thing to do is close out your competitor, or just not let it fall into other competitor's hands.

I would be a very rich man today if I had followed that advice 17 years ago when I had my own company.

I think what happened is that the "merger of equals" failed to materialize.

I honestly think the people who spearheaded the progam of a merger of equals saw it as just that. That which you describe where the two companies would become fully integrated and thus benefit from the strong points of each organization while improving efficiency and profitability.

What ACTUALLY happened is Chrysler became Daimlers b*tch that nobody wanted to deal with. Nobody in Germany seemed to want to do anything but keep Chrysler chained and throw them a bone every once in a while. In fact, it seemed that a lot of Daimlers top guys didn't even want Chrysler around. The companies were NEVER integrated for the most part which caused 2 things. 1) Too much attention being diverted from Daimler in order to ensure that Chrysler "stays in line" and 2) Chrysler lost ALL of the late 90s momentum that had been churning since the introduction of the concept Viper.

Now, what we see is the 'neglect' of Chrysler threatening to drag the entire company into the black abiss of financial ruin. It's like a snake trying to swallow and digest a dog. No matter how much the snake tries, it just ain't gonna happen and eventually the dog will either kill the snake or injure it beyond recovery.

So now, Daimler is in a race against time to jettison Chrysler before what they think is their "core" business falls too far behind the times to catch up.

We should've seen this coming when DCX ended it's alliance with Mitsu... Remember, the original plan was to have a 3 continent automaker; MB in Germany (Controlling it all) Chrysler in america and Mitsu in asia. The Mitsu collapse and subsequent 'thumbing of their noses' of DCX looks more and more like the cracks in the DCX structure that should've signaled this.

I always thought the "Merger of Equals" was a bad idea simply because I always figured Daimler would *NEVER* take Chrysler and their "$h!ty american business model/merchandise" seriously. Now it's just VERY sad to see our industry destroyed like it is.

I would tend to agree that nothing will save the "Big 3" unless their image changes (Which is possible, especially with sub 25 year olds who think higher of the companies anyway) If the image does not change, (And I doubt it will with the amount of people DELIBERATELY working against them, one company at a time if they have to) then Chrysler is good as gone (Which, I would rather see GM buy them then let them go out) Ford will be next within 1-2 years and GM is just living on borrowed time. ESPECIALLY if the bitches in the media continue toward job #1 of promoting everything this side of China above domestics at all costs and regardless of reality.

Edited February 21, 2007 by FUTURE_OF_GM

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

so what could GM actually use from Chrysler Dodge Jeep? From what I gather the Jeep brand, the Caliber & its kick ass SRT-engine, HEMI engine brand, Minivans and maybe the Nitro (cool aggressive little truck)?

They dont' really need Dodge's trucks since tehy have a full lineup of their own, brand new 900's. They could also dump the LX's (once Zeta is in full swing), and of course, there is no use for the Avenger/Sebring twins

Here's how I see it (Take it for what it is)

The Jeep issue is obvious... Jeep could be coupled with Hmmer which would justify Hummer moving up market to compete with Land Rover. Jeep would provide the volume to keep the "division" and dealerships relevant and profittable.

Sadly I worry about the future of Pontiac if Dodge is acquired. Dodge obviously does more volume AND has better recognition than Pontiac. Not to mention they have the performance rep (BIG performance rep) and Hemi credentials. Hopefully an acquisition of Dodge would not mean a Pontiac phase out.

I'm not sure WHERE Chrysler would fit in... It can't compromise Cadillac and it can't go Euro because of Saturn. Then there is the whole issue of Buick being the middle market division.

[MyerShift]

This is sadder than when Daimler took over in 1998.

It makes me sick.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Honestly, I think we might see an american investor come in a swoop Chrysler up (The whole company) which I wouldn't mind as long as that person knows what the hell they're getting in to or hires people who know what the hell they've gotten themselves into.

I just don't want anymore Proctor & Gambles exectuives RUINING our automotive companies...

What about Penske?

Didn't he just ink a deal with Chrysler to sell cars? Why couldn't he buy and run the company? Shelby? What about him (Although I see this less likely)

[MyerShift]

FOG, as long as they knew what they were doing, that is the option I would most prefer.

And, Chrysler has their new minivans to help support themselves.

[Dragon]

while dodge does have a lot of performance cars, if you were to drop the LX's (which GM doens' need given Zeta) and the d-segment twins (which are garbage to begin with), all dodge has left is utility vehicles which i dont' really seeing as competing with Pontiac. They'd compete more with GMC I would think

[Northstar]

so what could GM actually use from Chrysler Dodge Jeep? From what I gather the Jeep brand, the Caliber & its kick ass SRT-engine, HEMI engine brand, Minivans and maybe the Nitro (cool aggressive little truck)?

They dont' really need Dodge's trucks since tehy have a full lineup of their own, brand new 900's. They could also dump the LX's (once Zeta is in full swing), and of course, there is no use for the Avenger/Sebring twins

I think SRT-x would die because GMPD would take over. Hemi would give way to LSx. Minivans would stick around obviously, and the Nitro perhaps (hopefully without the craptastic interior). I could see the Ram, Silverado, and Sierra all being developed together, actually. Zeta would definitely take over LX.

kee

Here's how I see it (Take it for what it is)

The Jeep issue is obvious... Jeep could be coupled with Hmmer which would justify Hummer moving up market to compete with Land Rover. Jeep would provide the volume to keep the "division" and dealerships relevant and profittable.

Sadly I worry about the future of Pontiac if Dodge is acquired. Dodge obviously does more volume AND has better recognition than Pontiac. Not to mention they have the performance rep (BIG performance rep) and Hemi credentials. Hopefully an acquisition of Dodge would not mean a Pontiac phase out.

I'm not sure WHERE Chrysler would fit in... It can't compromise Cadillac and it can't go Euro because of Saturn. Then there is the whole issue of Buick being the middle market division.

I think if Dodge is acquired, it would become somewhat like GMC, more trucks/SUVs than cars. They could kill the Avenger, kill the Charger, keep the Caliber (instead of Vibe), kill the Viper, and then let Pontiac do cars and Dodge would have the Ram, Grand Caravan, and perhaps the Nitro and Durango, although they might step on the toes of the GMC Theta and Yukon. The Ram would obviously step on the toes of the Sierra/Silverado, but I think that at the volume it does it's not worth risking killing it and losing sales. It'd be better to develop three and spread the costs around than develop two and lose the Ram's sales to elsewhere.

Jeep is as you said... paired with Hummer.

We will have to see how this all plays out. I see no real value in Dodge other than the Caravan and Ram. Basically everything else is already bested by another GM product. Maybe Dodge gets 5 vehicles (Ram, Caravan, Caliber, Durango (?), Nitro (?) and becomes the utilitarian brand, and Pontiac gets the RWD G6, Solstice, G8, and maybe GTO and/or something else. That would be a pretty strong lineup, I think. Buick could then be paired with GMC to offer something a bit more upscale.

So I would have the lineup looking something like this (just vehicles on shared platforms):

Delta: Cobalt, HHR, Caliber, Astra

T900/NG: Sierra, Ram, Silverado, and then T900 SUVs and Durango

Theta: Equinox, GMC Theta, Nitro, perhaps Patriot

Caravan could move to Lambda

H4 and Wrangler could go on the same platform

I think once acquired, it would actually be quite easy for GM to run Dodge/Jeep. More platforms would simply be shared and the cost to produce everything would drop. Doing a Caravan off Lambda should be pretty inexpensive because the Lambdas are paying for it right now. H4 would be cheap to do because the Wrangler provides a platform. Ram and possibly Durango would make NG T900 even cheaper to do per unit.

[NOS2006]

I've been working on my own line-up if GM and Chrysler were to merge over the last few days. It's going to be more complex than you guys may guess, so look for it in the next week or so... I'm trying to space everything out as well as I can to keep people happy, overlap minimal, and costs low.

[FAPTurbo]

Replacing HEMI's to make way for LSx's sounds kind of like ripping the heart out of Dodge, and replacing it with some super, bionic, heart apparatus which is programmed to kick ass.

Cool!

[vrazzhledazzle]

I posted in another post that Olds shouldn't have been killed and said the brands should be like this:

Cadillac/Hummer - luxury cars & trucks (competes with Benz, BMW, Range Rover)

Oldsmobile - near-luxury (competes with mercury, chrysler, acura?)

Buick-Pontiac-GMC - performance cars and trucks (so buick would compete with infinity, ect)

Chevrolet - mainstream everything (kill toyota, honda, japan)

Saturn - important fighter (don't move it too far upmarket)

If they aquire Chrysler group, replace Olds with Chrysler, merge Jeep-Hummer and sell Dodge. I just don't like Dodge enough to justify killing or damaging other brands because of it. someone said, have a car brand thats called Dodge just begs to be avoided and I agree with that. Either way, its not that strong of a name and sooner or later it'll end up like Olds.

[AxelTheRed]

Thanks for keeping Chrysler safe and warm, Daimler-Benz.

If its really that much work to keep a branch that was, until recently, doing well...they maybe Daimler-Benz should just go out of business. Just the fact that they're ready to throw the towel in on Chrysler after only a few bad months is enough to elevate D-B to second place behind Toyota on my list of "automakers that I'll never buy a damn thing from".

I keep saying that there is a huge possibility of Chrysler being able to survive ON ITS OWN, but no, Benz wants truckloads of money for the company they drove straight into the ground.

What I really love is right here on this forum though...the whole "f@#k Chrysler" thing.

[Flybrian]

If GM buys anything, it should buy the minivan factory and tooling and the Jeep nameplate and be done with it. Sorry to all the MOPAR fans, but the rest of Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep is completely expendable, both to GM and to most of the automotive community.

Anyway, this was bound to happen. Chrysler has been riding this rollercoaster since the 1970s, up every five years, down for the next, so on and so on.

[Intrepidation]

I think what happened is that the "merger of equals" failed to materialize.

I honestly think the people who spearheaded the progam of a merger of equals saw it as just that. That which you describe where the two companies would become fully integrated and thus benefit from the strong points of each organization while improving efficiency and profitability.

What ACTUALLY happened is Chrysler became Daimlers b*tch that nobody wanted to deal with. Nobody in Germany seemed to want to do anything but keep Chrysler chained and throw them a bone every once in a while. In fact, it seemed that a lot of Daimlers top guys didn't even want Chrysler around. The companies were NEVER integrated for the most part which caused 2 things. 1) Too much attention being diverted from Daimler in order to ensure that Chrysler "stays in line" and 2) Chrysler lost ALL of the late 90s momentum that had been churning since the introduction of the concept Viper.

Now, what we see is the 'neglect' of Chrysler threatening to drag the entire company into the black abiss of financial ruin. It's like a snake trying to swallow and digest a dog. No matter how much the snake tries, it just ain't gonna happen and eventually the dog will either kill the snake or injure it beyond recovery.

So now, Daimler is in a race against time to jettison Chrysler before what they think is their "core" business falls too far behind the times to catch up.

We should've seen this coming when DCX ended it's alliance with Mitsu... Remember, the original plan was to have a 3 continent automaker; MB in Germany (Controlling it all) Chrysler in america and Mitsu in asia. The Mitsu collapse and subsequent 'thumbing of their noses' of DCX looks more and more like the cracks in the DCX structure that should've signaled this.

I always thought the "Merger of Equals" was a bad idea simply because I always figured Daimler would *NEVER* take Chrysler and their "$h!ty american business model/merchandise" seriously. Now it's just VERY sad to see our industry destroyed like it is.

I would tend to agree that nothing will save the "Big 3" unless their image changes (Which is possible, especially with sub 25 year olds who think higher of the companies anyway) If the image does not change, (And I doubt it will with the amount of people DELIBERATELY working against them, one company at a time if they have to) then Chrysler is good as gone (Which, I would rather see GM buy them then let them go out) Ford will be next within 1-2 years and GM is just living on borrowed time. ESPECIALLY if the bitches in the media continue toward job #1 of promoting everything this side of China above domestics at all costs and regardless of reality.

This was very apparent when Chrysler rolled out the ME-412 prototype, and it as canned because the guys in Germany were pissed that Chrysler could do what they did with teh SLR for a fraction of the cost. They were too busy bickering mongst themselves and way too full of themselves to capitalize on the potential Chrysler Group has. They could havs pushhed Chrysler upmarket and had 2 luxury branches that bing in more money and would appeal to different people, but were to stuck up about Mercedes being superior.

I posted in another post that Olds shouldn't have been killed and said the brands should be like this:

Cadillac/Hummer - luxury cars & trucks (competes with Benz, BMW, Range Rover)

Oldsmobile - near-luxury (competes with mercury, chrysler, acura?)

Buick-Pontiac-GMC - performance cars and trucks (so buick would compete with infinity, ect)

Chevrolet - mainstream everything (kill toyota, honda, japan)

Saturn - important fighter (don't move it too far upmarket)

If they aquire Chrysler group, replace Olds with Chrysler, merge Jeep-Hummer and sell Dodge. I just don't like Dodge enough to justify killing or damaging other brands because of it. someone said, have a car brand thats called Dodge just begs to be avoided and I agree with that. Either way, its not that strong of a name and sooner or later it'll end up like Olds.

It's not strong name yet they are the voume seller for DCX...right.

[Flybrian]

Another problem Chrysler had is this volume thing. Why is Chrysler such a volume division? Why is it home to the cheapest car in the whole group (PT Cruiser)? Why is the base 300 such a pile of crap that costs MORE than a BETTER-EQUIPPED Charger? Why does the 'new' Sebring offer uncompetitive, junk powertrains in two of its three trims? Why is the only tangible difference between a Dodge and a Chrysler simply the wrapping?

[hyperv6]

They should just E bay it and get it over with. I bet the someone from China spikes it in the last second.

I read a story the other day that said Daimler paid $36 Billion to buy Chrysler and may not get anymore than $5 billion by the time they are done.

[FAPTurbo]

What I really love is right here on this forum though...the whole "f@#k Chrysler" thing.

Look, I don't mind Chrysler, and I happen to love the Pacifica and the LX models. But vehicles like the Compass and Sebring go to show that the company seems to be incapable of keeping a good thing going. Even LX's are getting slapped with discounts.

The LX's were awesome when they debuted, especially with the HEMI. The problem is, is that the 3.5L isn't exactly the greatest engine in it's class. If Chrysler was smart, they would have spent more time creating a better V6 in anticipation of higher fuel costs and growing environmental concern. GM has made the 3.6L which is winning lots of praise from the press, and is still improving their current V8's.

Many of their interiors will either make you cringe or laugh your ass off. I'm not saying Ford or GM are interior gods, but they are certainly much more credible than many of Chrysler's offerings. I don't mind the Caliber, but it's interior is pretty shiesty. Interiors can easily make or break a sale, especially in this day and age.

My Dad's side has owned a few Chrysler's, and most have been complete and utter crap.

[Intrepidation]

What I really love is right here on this forum though...the whole "f@#k Chrysler" thing.

I know. Even though this may be a GM fansite, we should not wish bad thing on Chrysler. It's been an American company for a long time. If it dies, so does a part of our culture. Of course some people here don't give a $h! and are too blind by their own GM bias to care what happens to it.

Oh and I'm pretty sick of the whole "TEH LX C4RZ 4R3 T3H SUX0RZ!1! Z3T4 1Z T3H B3ST3ST!!1" sentiment. If it weren't for the LX cars we may not have Zeta. Chrysler was the only one with the guts to stop making FWD large cars and take a risk. If Zeta is superior it's because it's a new f@#king platform so no $h!, I'd expect it to be better.

On a final note, the 3.5L is far from a bad engine, especially since it's the mid-level (used to be Charger's base) engine. 250 horesepower is nothing to sneeze at.

[Intrepidation]

What I really love is right here on this forum though...the whole "f@#k Chrysler" thing.

I know. Even though this may be a GM fansite, we should not wish bad thing on Chrysler. It's been an American company for a long time. If it dies, so does a part of our culture. Of course some people here don't give a $h! and are too blind by their own GM bias to care what happens to it.

Oh and I'm pretty sick of the whole "TEH LX C4RZ 4R3 T3H SUX0RZ!1! Z3T4 1Z T3H B3ST3ST!!1" sentiment. If it weren't for the LX cars we may not have Zeta. Chrysler was the only one with the guts to stop making FWD large cars and take a risk. If Zeta is superior it's because it's a new f@#king platform so no $h!, I'd expect it to be better.

On a final note, the 3.5L is far from a bad engine, especially since it's the mid-level (used to be Charger's base) engine. 250 horesepower is nothing to sneeze at.

[intrigued]

I beg of you GM,

Let the company wither and die, don't take on more problems. Maybe take jeep to pair with hummer but screw everything else, even the minivans.

What you should really do is gear up to snag all the former crysler buyers they can. Offer special conquest incentives to owners of Crysler products. Fight for all those RAM sales. Fight for the LX sales with Zeta. If GM could caputere a larger percentage of the former customer base they could likley stay ahead of Toyota sales wise but profitablly as this could bring in a large percentage of retail buyers suddenly.

[Intrepidation]

Another blindly loyal GM person who says "f@#k Chrysler" It's really no better than the Toyota import humpers

Edited February 21, 2007 by Dodgefan

[NOS2006]

Well, what do you expect of a GM forum?

I really don't see everybody being anti-Chrysler. Most of the "attacks" are saying that Chrysler isn't worth GM's money. I'm saying the opposite and thinking Chrysler might be viable for GM to buy, but who really knows what would happen if it worked out? Either way, we'll just have to wait and see.

[AxelTheRed]

I know. Even though this may be a GM fansite, we should not wish bad thing on Chrysler. It's been an American company for a long time. If it dies, so does a part of our culture. Of course some people here don't give a $h! and are too blind by their own GM bias to care what happens to it.

Oh and I'm pretty sick of the whole "TEH LX C4RZ 4R3 T3H SUX0RZ!1! Z3T4 1Z T3H B3ST3ST!!1" sentiment. If it weren't for the LX cars we may not have Zeta. Chrysler was the only one with the guts to stop making FWD large cars and take a risk. If Zeta is superior it's because it's a new f@#king platform so no $h!, I'd expect it to be better.

On a final note, the 3.5L is far from a bad engine, especially since it's the mid-level (used to be Charger's base) engine. 250 horesepower is nothing to sneeze at.

I'm going to guess that about three quarters of this entire forum are blinded by their own GM bias...and it looks like they've all shown up here to let us all know they hope Chrysler tanks.

I'm more of a fan of the entire Big Three than I am of just GM. Personally, I'd take a Dodge over a Pontiac (definitely a Charger over what I've seen so far of the G8); a Jeep over a Hummer and an F-150 over a Silverado any old day of the week.

Another thing that really bothers be about everyone calling for Chrysler's demise is that it would absolutely CRIPPLE Michigan. Its bad enough here as it is, there are more people leaving Michigan than any other state in the America. Now think about Chrysler going under taking 85,000 more jobs with it.

"CHRYSLER MUST DIE!!!!" Yeah, and put thousands out of work, cripple an already struggling state, and kill part of our culture. Yeah, great idea.

[Flybrian]

On a final note, the 3.5L is far from a bad engine, especially since it's the mid-level (used to be Charger's base) engine. 250 horesepower is nothing to sneeze at.

It is a great engine. No one said it wasn't.

Looking at this from a business perspective along with a what's best for GM perspective, its best for Chrysler to wither and die while GM picks up the useful pieces. If this occurs:

1 - GM naturally gains marketshare.

2 - GM gets minivans and some technology it may desire.

3 - GM gets the lucurative Jeep division as a lower-end companion to HUMMER

4 - GM lets someone else deal with the union tie-ups, plant closures, healthcare, etc.

Stop me when I quit making financial sense....

[turbo200]

i still think this it's unbelievable this is happenning...so soon. I expected it to come some day, but MB finally ditching Chrysler is big news. I see promise with Chrysler, but it's a problematic group, and has a reliability stigma, in my eyes.

I don't think GM will go through with it, but maybe I just don't see the light where it could work, I guess crazier things have happened. GM seems too cash drained to do this now though.

Edited February 21, 2007 by turbo200

[NOS2006]

1 - GM naturally gains marketshare.

I agree with everything you said, Fly. However, remember that this point (quoted above) is hypothetical. Chrysler's losing marketshare and so is GM. While GM would temporarily gain all of Chrysler's marketshare at the time of purchase, it's up to GM and quite a few years to depict whether or not that marketshare was worth it.

GM would need to make a complete restructuring of both companies, including restructuring and rethinking everything it's restructured in the last 5 years. Sure, you or I could sit down (which I am) and think out the ideal GM-Chrysler lineup, but when you throw it in front of financial analysts and engineers, the time, money, and planning grow exponentially. However, I'm all for that..

Edited February 21, 2007 by NOS2006

[vrazzhledazzle]

Another blindly loyal GM person who says "f@#k Chrysler" It's really no better than the Toyota import humpers

That's true, but most are saying it just because they think Chrysler will bring down GM (and of course, most would take GM over Chrysler anyday). I don't want Chrysler to die...

[bowtie_dude]

If GM buys anything, it should buy the minivan factory and tooling and the Jeep nameplate and be done with it. Sorry to all the MOPAR fans, but the rest of Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep is completely expendable, both to GM and to most of the automotive community.

Anyway, this was bound to happen. Chrysler has been riding this rollercoaster since the 1970s, up every five years, down for the next, so on and so on.

Agree 1000000%

[Flybrian]

I agree with everything you said, Fly. However, remember that this point (quoted above) is hypothetical. Chrysler's losing marketshare and so is GM. While GM would temporarily gain all of Chrysler's marketshare at the time of purchase, it's up to GM and quite a few years to depict whether or not that marketshare was worth it.

GM would need to make a complete restructuring of both companies, including restructuring and rethinking everything it's restructured in the last 5 years...

Thanks, and I'm basing my statement on the assumption that Chrysler more or less evaporates with individual consortiums picking up the tangible resources leftover (plants, platforms, licensing, etc). If this can happen - and I'm not even sure it can or will - then GM has nothing to lose by acquiring just enough to plug holes in its own lineup at minimum expense. Rework the minivan lines to adopt GM powertrains, rework the Caliber likewise and give it to Pontiac as the next Vibe, keep as much of Jeep as authentic as possible (it will simply be the Jeep/Hummer Division), and let someone else deal with the UAW, the servicing, the warranties, and all the other bull$h!.

GM would naturally gain marketshare as many who buy Dodge and Chrysler would rather simply buy another American car. The Ram is rapidly aging at at the end of its product cycle. It'll be discontinued and those buyers can move into GM trucks. LX-cars would likewise die, but here comes the G8 and likewise. Anyone who cares about the Sebring and Avenger will be more than happy with an Epsilon car. Minivan buyers and Jeep lovers would see minimal changes to their preferred cars.

Again, all hypothetical and perhaps unrealistic, but I would like someone to tell me how the above possibility would not benefit GM?

Also, to the MOPAR fans, guess what? I like some Chryslers, too. I also loved Oldsmobile and I'm glad that if the oldest car manufacturer and a true institution had to die, it died going out with a lineup of some rather great cars. If Chrysler had to die, would you rather it go out now and see its legacy live on partially through the remaining domestic manufacturers or would you want it to meander aimlessly as a money-bleeding independent with lousy, half-ass and inferior automobiles, finally dying in the automotive gutter forgotten, unloved, and uncared for like Plymouth or AMC?

[bowtie_dude]

Another blindly loyal GM person who says "f@#k Chrysler" It's really no better than the Toyota import humpers

I'm not blindly loyal. But, like Fly said, aside from Jeep and the minivans, Chrysler is relatively irrelevant.