Buick Dealers Don't Want Statesman

[buyacargetacheck]

This sounds suspicious. First, since when have dealers had the power to nix new product (and which Buick dealers)? Second, how and who leaked this story? And for what purpose? As a replacement for Lucerne (if priced similarly), why wouldn't Buick dealers want it?

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/02/19/wha-bui...-a-rwd-vehicle/

[CARBIZ]

Are you kidding me? Loud and profitable dealers have a lot of influence. Just look at all the Pontiac product dumped on the Canadian market that the Americans don't get. The Buick dealers might be onto something. Don't forget about the P-B-GMC amalgamation going on. Look at all the large cars that grouping will have: G-8, Lucerne, Allure and then the trucks. A lot of confusing inventory and the dealers have to pay for it, not GM.

[Sixty8panther]

I need a shovel, so I can dig myself out of the bull$h! pile that I read in that article.

You know, weather this is true or not (god I hope not) I hear that in the late 19th

century plenty of people thought that electricity & telephones were EVIL.

[ehaase]

About 3 1/2 years ago, a rumored 2007 Buick RWD sedan, either built in the U.S. or imported from Australia, was a hot topic around here. However, many, including me, felt that it was best to let the Lucerne run its course and replace it with a RWD sedan in the 2010 to 2012 timeframe. Buick doesn't need two big sedans in the current marketplace.

[buyacargetacheck]

About 3 1/2 years ago, a rumored 2007 Buick RWD sedan, either built in the U.S. or imported from Australia, was a hot topic around here. However, many, including me, felt that it was best to let the Lucerne run its course and replace it with a RWD sedan in the 2010 to 2012 timeframe. Buick doesn't need two big sedans in the current marketplace.

OK, maybe what this article intimates (but I misunderstood) was that GM's proposal was for the Buick "Statesman" to be an additional model sold side-by-side with the Lucerne. That, I agree, is a poor idea. Replacing the Lucerne with the Statesman in '10 or '11 (hopefully sooner) makes more sense.

[AM6_Cutlass]

I honestly doubt a big rwd Buick would have as broad of an appeal as a fwd one. It might rate higher with the enthusiast mags, and probably with most of you, but that's not who buys Buicks. If anything, I would like to see the Lucerne redesigned on the G-Body platform again in 2011, and a rwd Buick be sold along side it as Buick's new flagship. The rwd sedan could bring in new buyers to Buick while the fwd Lucerne could continue to appeal to traditional Buick buyers that won't care that the platform will be ancient by then. My grandfather owns a Buick Century, and has been in fwd since 1982. I don't see him ever switching back. Same with my parents who owned a Buick, and most likely would buy another as their next car. I know my mom despises rwd. She was a big factor in my buying fwd for my first car when I wanted a rwd Cutlass (I didn't care about the drivetrain, just liked the styling). Even when I showed my dad the G8 he said he had a hard time getting used to fwd, but he doesn't think he would want to go back. Don't get me wrong, I am happy GM cars will be offered in rwd again (more choices=good), just not at the expense of all the fwd ones.

[Intrepidation]

Rick: What a good, modern car people actually would want to but?

Dealers: Nah, we're happy with outdated mediocrity.

Although it would look too much like teh G8 unless it was dramatically different.

[CSpec]

This doesn't make sense; the GMNA-designed Zeta Lucerne is being developed as we speak.

[FAPTurbo]

[Cory Wolfe]

Dealers brought us the G5. Dealers are evil.

[Drew Dowdell]

If article$ = True then set BuickDealers$ = "Stupid" and set LexusDealer$ = "$$$$$$$$"

[Flybrian]

Damn you, Jim Dollinger...damn you all to hell.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

First off, GM make the damn product decisions that are right for the market and tell the dealers to EFF OFF. (We need to trim our dealer body anyway)

Secondly, I doubt the merit of this story for MANY reasons. 1) RWD is ALWAYS preferred by people 'in the know' 2) The Lucerne is quickly running out of time (Last time I checked, G-Body was a lame duck) 3) Buick is, and has been starved of product for a while. So ANY new product is probably welcome product. 4) Whether or not it cuts into Lucerne sales is null and void when we consider that a move like this would increase corporate efficiency, (globalization) probably gain Buick share OVERALL, give the division credibility it hasn't had in too many years and be as profitable (If not more) than the Lucerne anyway.

It just makes too much sense.... Buick would have a common product with Buick of China, it would maximize global efficiency, it would easily fill the void left by the Lucerne when (If?) it departs, it would go A LONG way in revitalizing Buick and drawing in younger buyers, it would add volume and share (eventhough it probably wouldn't be much) AND Buick would have LOTS of positive momentum with the new Enclave LAX Super and now Statesman.

Buick NEEDS this.

[NINETY EIGHT REGENCY]

I know this will not be a popular opinion, but I this car would make a great Oldsmobile Ninety Eight or Eighty Eight if they had kept Oldsmobile or brought it back. This would have been a winner. A smaller Oldsmobile sold through the existing GM dealership body.

I understand those that like fwd and those that like rwd. Buick in America is not in a position to be picky or selective when the model count is down and sales are too and Buick in China has more models and better sales using older platforms. Enclave alone cannot hold up a division. I worry for Buick because it needs help.

I saw a blue Toyota Avalon Sunday. From a distance and even close up, it looks as big as Lucerne and it is as big as LaCrosse. It sadly is stealing Buick sales. Buick had fwd and rwd in the 90's. It had LeSabre and Park Avenue and Roadmaster. There was a difference in length and interior room and the Roadmaster was on a longer wheelbase and offered V8's. This time Lucerne is on a wheelbase and length close to the Holden and offers a V8 and a V6.

That is how the dealers see it.

We all know once DTS shifts to rwd, something has to happen to Buick Lucerne. The dealers will not have a choice. I have never heard of GM keeping one car on a platform alone. If that were the case, Ninety Eight would have lasted past 1996 and Eldorado would have lasted longer too.

I can tell you a story from the 1980's. When GM was switching the C Bodies to fwd in 1984 as 1985's, Oldsmobile did not want to switch the Ninety Eight over to fwd. They wanted to keep it rwd. They had no choice. It went fwd in the spring of 84 as an 85.

In the past GM let the plant workers vote to decide and the dealers vote to decide on some big issues, and it cost GM.

Pontiac North America in the early 1980's was in trouble. It is not too far off from what is going on now. This was when they were using letter cars before. They got rid of Bonneville because Pontiac was the small car and midsize car division. Market tastes changed and they had to bring the Parisienne from Canada here and sell it as a fullsized Pontiac. That was a good move because the Parisienne sold well. The one from 1985-1986 was quite nice looking as a Bonneville from the past. The only thing with the Parisienne it shared the front end and the instrumentation panel with Chevrolet Caprice.

Moral: leaving the fullsized market and letter cars was not a good idea for Pontiac.

The UAW voted to switch the Oldsmobile Lansing plant over to the smaller fwd Calais in 1984 thinking that the market was demanding smaller cars. That decision was not good and it was one of the nails in the coffin for Oldsmobile. They shipped production of the Ninety Eight and Eighty Eight to another plant.

Moral:That plant is closed and Oldsmobile is gone.

People also need to realize Buick does not have a unique Buick only product. The last one they had was Reatta.

Moral: Buick does not have any gotta have products.

It would blow people's minds if the next Avalon was rear wheel drive based on a cheaper Lexus platform and offered V8s.

Moral: Toyota keeps redefining a vehicle until they get it right. The Avalon is one generation away from being the perfect Buick.

[VenSeattle]

Oshawa won't be ready for a few years. So it appears the only way GM can rush a RWD vehicle for the Buick brand is by importing it from Down-Under. Unfortunately, GM can't import enough to completely replace the Lucerne, so they must be sold side-by-side. Otherwise, Buick's sales volume would plummet.

I think the dealers are being shortsighted because the LaCrosse replacement would be near production by the time this RWD Buick makes it to US dealerships. The Next-Gen LaCrosse will more than compete against the Lucerne for FWD sales. It will have a completely modern powertrain and more features available. I'm sure the interior dimensions will increase as well. The dealers would be wise to allow GM to bring this car to market. The 4-sp Lucerne isn't going to cut it in 2009 or 2010. The competition is always improving and Buick needs to keep up and exceed expectations if it is going to be taken serious by luxury car shoppers. The Enclave can't be the only competitive product in Buick's portfolio for the next 3 years.

[Sixty8panther]

What the hell is wrong with all you people that think that THREE Buick cars is a over-saturated lineup!?!?

Back in 1996 we had double that:

Skylark

Century

Regal 2dr

Regal 4dr

Roadmaster

Roadmaster Estate

That's SIX cars according to the current method of counting.

[K.C.]

Buick really needs this car. I think it would be a great top end car above the Lucerne. I hope they bring it. I really don't care if dealers wnat it or not I think that car buyers would want it and they are the ones putting out the money and increasing sales, not the dealers. I think a top end car could sell for about $45,000 with V-8 and be viable in the market. It would be a true poor man's (well, if $45K USD is poor) Lexus LS460.

Who's with me here?

[Z-06]

The Voice has spoken. Bitches. That is ludicrous at one end they complain of not having enough products, not they decline it. That is oxymoronic.

[gm4life]

OK, maybe what this article intimates (but I misunderstood) was that GM's proposal was for the Buick "Statesman" to be an additional model sold side-by-side with the Lucerne. That, I agree, is a poor idea. Replacing the Lucerne with the Statesman in '10 or '11 (hopefully sooner) makes more sense.

The Lucerne and DTS need to stay FWD as I have said! They need a new FWD platform and 6spd. automatics. I think a RWD G8 would be enough. Having said that if Buick wanted to move the "Statesman" upmarket and sell it as a Roadmaster pricing from 40-50K I wouldn't mind that, just make sure it is the long wheel base verison. I could see that selling 10-15K a year plus the G8 30-50K a year and it would be some more cars and most importantly RWD performance vehicles. Making a Lucerne or DTS RWD is stupid and the DEALERS don't want it. I do feel as if I am repeating myself, oh I am I said this before and I got shot down because everyone wants RWD, sadly it doesn't always make sense. PRODUCE WHAT SELLS IF RWD IS IT, great but I doubt it will be. I am suprised the didn't want it but they would be right it wouldn't be good for Lucerne sales unless it was low production like I said the Lucerne should remain more volume FWD vehicle. GM BRING BACK THE CHI!

[ehaase]

What the hell is wrong with all you people that think that THREE Buick cars is a over-saturated lineup!?!?

Because the buying public, not fans like us who are sentimental about our brands, could care less about Buick. Sure, let Buick have its version of the Cobalt and coupes and convertibles galore, but only a few thousand would buy them.

[Sixty8panther]

A few thousand is better then ZERO.

You know how many people buy 2007 Roadmasters? ZERO!

You know how many people buy 2007 Skylarks? ZERO!

You know how many people buy 2007 Grand Nationals? ZERO!

[ehaase]

A few thousand is better then ZERO.

Not if you're losing money building those few thousand.

[K.C.]

A Buick "Statesman" would be a great niche vehicle that would bring foot traffic into showrooms so other Buick products could be brought. It happened with the Chrysler 300C and it can happen with Buick if this model comes to N. American showrooms.

[Imaj]

GM should tell the dealer to go **** themselves! If they don't want it, force it on them! Stupid dealers!

[titan]

I think the blog was true. Here's an article from autoweek.

No RWD for Buick?

Dealers fear such a vehicle would steal from Lucerne

By RICK KRANZ | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

AutoWeek | Updated: 02/20/07, 10:45 am et

CHICAGO - While Chevrolet and Pontiac will offer rear-drive cars, the Buick dealer council basically said, "Thanks - but no, thanks."

But GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz has left the door open if the group wants to reconsider.

Lutz said U.S. dealers were offered a Buick based on the long-wheelbase Holden Statesman that will be sold in China next year.

"It was firmly in the U.S. product program" until the car was shown to Buick dealers, Lutz said.

The issue? Both the front-drive Lucerne sedan and the rwd Buick sedan are about the same size, and both offer V-6 and V-8 engines. The dealers thought the rwd car would cannibalize Lucerne sales, Lutz said.

"They were worried that it wasn't going to be 'plus' business, and we had to worry about the substitution rate," he said. "So for excellent business reasons, we elected not to do it."

But Lutz quickly added that "the future is open on that." With a Buick already being built for China, he said, "Once that vehicle exists, it would be a little hard to see why you wouldn't use it for the whole market."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...E/70220007/1528

[titan]

Okay... I'm very disappointed by this news. This is a poor move. First off, a three sedan lineup is not oversaturation for Buick. Even with the B-P-G network, which was a HUGE mistake, IMO. GM let Buick languish to where it was a move that looked good, but Buick should have never been allowed to wither on the vine. It should have three sedans, a coupe, and two f@#kin' SUVs. (sigh) Anyway, given that sadly shruken status of a once proud and coveted marque, it can still flourish. But it won't with these stupid ass decisions. The Statesman should replace the Lucerne. In my perfect world, Buick would have a Commodore variant also, positioned between the next gen Lacrosse (EPII) and the Lucerne (Statesman). Sure, Pontiac's G8 is essentially a reskin, and that's fine, because it's a great looking car. Any other brand to get one based off of the platform though (Chevy's Impala, etc.) should look completely different, both in and out. It's worth the extra dollars to make the car look completely different, as opposed to a new front and rear end grafted onto the same car. I'm sick of going to other forums and reading that Buick should go the way of Olds. However, this is the straw that breaks the back for me. This is a damn shame.

[Mule Bakersdozen LS]

Wait-wasn't a Buick-styled, not boring Australian clone Lucerne supposed to emerge around 2011? you know, a Zeta-based Lucerne replacement? I thought Lucerne Chi was cancelled with Zeta in the picture. What is so significant about the front-drive full-size? They're all boring, they all suck. Okay, Chevy Impala is the best bunch of these types of cars, but next to a Zeta model, who will care? Another boring front-drive car will not revolutionize GM. It will not give Buick the upswing it so desperately needs and is lacking, with possible exception of the Enclave.

[Cory Wolfe]

Dealers are ghey.

[ToniCipriani]

Any Buick dealers who say this can go f**k themselves, shut down and shut up.

Except I don't like the "Statesman" name. Call it Invicta, make it look just like the new Royaum, and it's all set. The Holden's a great car and it will sell if priced right. Even better if it's assembled here.

[ZL-1]

I see Lutz's statement about a 'Buick Statesman' as the type of car Buick may get, not a US-certified Royaum. But I think I understand why dealers wouldn't want both Lucerne and RWD car.

[CSpec]

The next generation Lucerne will be on Zeta, so this doesn't really matter.

[Cananopie]

Buick needs a RWD coupe. Another sedan will be another yawn for anyone who is looking for some excitement in Buick. 3 sedans is overkill for a brand that sells 4 vehicles. Buick shouldn't be the "sedan division" while Pontiac gets to play both sides. Buick could offer a large spacious luxuriously decadent coupe that could fit people in the back seat without crushing them and still have a voluptuous design. Something like the Aurora in size only make it a coupe. A large luxuorious coupe could appeal to those looking for luxury, size, and sport. Pontiac or Saturn or Chevy can not offer that and with the appeal the Enclave has this large coupe, if designed right, could solidify that GM actually followed through with making Buick exciting again.

1 SUV and 3 sedans doesn't quite qualify for that. And especially neither would 1 SUV and 2 sedans. Obviously most of the dealers consolidated into a Pontiac/GMC dealership so the Buick brand is nothing more than a burden to most of them in the first place.

[gm4life]

Everyone says the Lucerne will be RWD, when it comes down to it, I won't be suprised if it and DTS stay front wheel drive.

[Northstar]

Everyone says the Lucerne will be RWD, when it comes down to it, I won't be suprised if it and DTS stay front wheel drive.

What FWD platform are they going to ride on? There are no suitable future FWD platforms for them to ride on. They're going RWD.

[ehaase]

Everyone says the Lucerne will be RWD, when it comes down to it, I won't be suprised if it and DTS stay front wheel drive.

You need to get used to the fact that in a few years, the Malibu, Aura, next generation LaCrosse, and maybe the G6 (if it stays FWD) will be GM's largest FWD sedans. If you want a big FWD sedan, Ford will be happy to sell you a Taurus or Sable, and Toyota will be happy to sell you an Avalon. If you have to have a big FWD GM product, your only choice will be the Outlook, Enclave, or Acadian.

[Robert Hall]

Where is Buickman? I'm sure he'd have some input on this topic..

[Robert Hall]

You need to get used to the fact that in a few years, the Malibu, Aura, next generation LaCrosse, and maybe the G6 (if it stays FWD) will be GM's largest FWD sedans. If you want a big FWD sedan, Ford will be happy to sell you a Taurus or Sable, and Toyota will be happy to sell you an Avalon. If you have to have a big FWD GM product, your only choice will be the Outlook, Enclave, or Acadian.

That certainly seems to be the plan...I assume once the W and G platforms are retired, then the Epsilons will be the biggest FWDers..

[ocnblu]

These stupid dealers are their own worst enemy. While I like the G-body Lucerne, a RWD Zeta replacement would destroy it. It's time to move Buick to a more premium status, and Zeta is it.

[regfootball]

fk the dealers. they should bring the statesman over. buick would benefit from this rwd addition.

that said....it goes to show you the support that exists for fwd at buick. my take is buick should have both and the cars are different flavored enough to coexist.

the lucerne is not really a luxury car. i think of the lucerne as more a spiffy lesabre replacement whereby the statesman has more of that presence to it that a flagship needs.

the cars could coexist together. the dealers are fricking stupid. dealers are lazy stupid and behind the times.

[buickguy]

This Statesman would have been around only until the Zeta Lucerne is ready...so a couple of years, much like the Australian g-8.

Buick's top priority should be a coupe/convertible.

Something hot that will have people saying "wow, that's a Buick?"

[The O.C.]

Oshawa won't be ready for a few years. So it appears the only way GM can rush a RWD vehicle for the Buick brand is by importing it from Down-Under. Unfortunately, GM can't import enough to completely replace the Lucerne, so they must be sold side-by-side. Otherwise, Buick's sales volume would plummet.

I think the dealers are being shortsighted because the LaCrosse replacement would be near production by the time this RWD Buick makes it to US dealerships. The Next-Gen LaCrosse will more than compete against the Lucerne for FWD sales. It will have a completely modern powertrain and more features available. I'm sure the interior dimensions will increase as well. The dealers would be wise to allow GM to bring this car to market. The 4-sp Lucerne isn't going to cut it in 2009 or 2010. The competition is always improving and Buick needs to keep up and exceed expectations if it is going to be taken serious by luxury car shoppers. The Enclave can't be the only competitive product in Buick's portfolio for the next 3 years.

Buick really should be positioned as a step-up......'cause right now, in overall public perception.....it's not seen as that.

Buick used to provide "Premium American Motorcars." There's nothing in the lineup right now that I'd consider "premium." The Enclave is a GREAT first step towards that mantra, however.

One problem that Acura has been dealing with is the fact that their FWD-based models are seen as having way too direct of a link to the FWD Hondas they are based upon. Acuras play in that same middle ground as VW, Volvo, etc. Most people don't give them the same credibility that they do Lexus, BMW, Mercedes. Buick faces the same challenge....LaCrosse = Chevy Impala with a different skin and interior.

I see Buick as having the potential to be a step above the Acuras, VWs, and Volvos of the world......leaving Cadillac free to move further up in prestige and capability. But to do that, GM has gotta invest in the RIGHT products.....! And I believe, more often than not, it's gonna mean RWD.