The Scoop on The G8 Being built in North America

[z28luvr01]

Interesting you should mention that, as I would be rather curious to see what would fill that signifigant sales void... after all, those fleets are not going to stop wanting vehicles all of a sudden. And, furthermore, returning the Impala to RWD would only serve to make it more attractive to fleets, particularily law enforcement.

So long as Oshawa is tooled for flexable manufacturing, I would be in favour of simply continuing to produce the current generation Impala for fleet use only well into the next decade. But, as this thread demonstrates, who really knows what GM has up their sleeves?

The new, bigger Malibu will probably be pushed as the sales queen once the current Impy runs its course.

[hyperv6]

The new, bigger Malibu will probably be pushed as the sales queen once the current Impy runs its course.

I totally agree.

Look also for a possible Malibu Police package. The FWD Impala is very popular today with many city police departments and if gas keep going up a V6 patrol car is very appealing to them.

I also see a Impala Police package as likely so the sales may split between the two.

But in the end the Malibu will be the Sales work horse at Chevy.

I think GM was smart to enlarge the Malibu to fill in for the FWD Impala and then still build the RWD Impala. They ahve a car for the market no matter what the gas priced or drive wheel preferance.

My question is how hard will Impala sales effect the G8 sales when it hits the market and how does Pontiac plan to counter it to no lose sales to Chevy.

Edited February 14, 2007 by hyperv6

[AAS]

...

My question is how hard will Impala sales effect the G8 sales when it hits the market and how does Pontiac plan to counter it to no lose sales to Chevy.

Maybe that's why the G8* isn't supposed to last that long. There would be a slight overlap, then the Impala would be on its own.

Edit: * the first generation, assuming it will be updated/refreshed/replaced...

Edited February 14, 2007 by AAS

[Northstar]

Pontiac is looking less and less necessary by the day. It seems Pontiac could easily be rolled into Chevy. The Impala can fill most of the needs of G8 buyers. The only reason I see for the G8 to survive is that it will be significantly smaller than the Impala, I would think. The Solstice could be made into a baby Corvette. The only thing I don't see working in Chevy's lineup is the future small RWD Pontiacs, because I think that having Aveo, Cobalt, small RWD cars, Malibu, and Impala would create too much confusion.

Pontiac can be viable if the Impala and G8 can target different buyers. The NG G8 would need to be smaller than the one we're going to get now, so that it is much more nimble than a RWD Impala. Then of course Chevy doesn't have a Solstice, nor a small RWD line of vehicles, and Pontiac looks necessary again. BUT, if the Impala and G8 aren't well enough differentiated, I don't see much point in having both, and then you could say the only reason to have Pontiac is the small RWD car(s), as everything else could go to Chevy.

[Hudson]

DTS is up in the air at this point. Your Impala figure is significantly higher than the current target, and Camaro + Impala + Lucerne are well below 400k units.

I would not be surprised if the Impala sold 250k considering it will get lots of attention from police/taxi companies, but apparently GM doesn't think it will, which again is why I think it must be moving significantly upmarket.

The two generations of reports I've seen both had all four in Oshawa. The first generation (over a year old) had the Impala significantly lower in volume (about 150,000), but the more recent plan has it in the 250,000 range.

[97regalGS]

Pontiac is looking less and less necessary by the day. It seems Pontiac could easily be rolled into Chevy. The Impala can fill most of the needs of G8 buyers. The only reason I see for the G8 to survive is that it will be significantly smaller than the Impala, I would think. The Solstice could be made into a baby Corvette. The only thing I don't see working in Chevy's lineup is the future small RWD Pontiacs, because I think that having Aveo, Cobalt, small RWD cars, Malibu, and Impala would create too much confusion.

Pontiac can be viable if the Impala and G8 can target different buyers. The NG G8 would need to be smaller than the one we're going to get now, so that it is much more nimble than a RWD Impala. Then of course Chevy doesn't have a Solstice, nor a small RWD line of vehicles, and Pontiac looks necessary again. BUT, if the Impala and G8 aren't well enough differentiated, I don't see much point in having both, and then you could say the only reason to have Pontiac is the small RWD car(s), as everything else could go to Chevy.

yes, some potential overlap between chevy and pontiac. where else could alpha vehicles go that would have less of an direct impact to chevy? hmm, i wonder. maybe a little start-up brand that has completely re-done and updated their line-up in the past 18months, to include a roadster, a hatch, a family sedan and a crossover, but no rwd sedans. Say a brand that despite lacklustre product, still has an amazing, untarnished brand image(unlike Pontiac) and makes it on the shopping lists of Toyota and Honda.

Yes, Saturn.

I'm not sure of plans, but if kappa merges with alpha, then Sky could co-exist with a sedan at your saturn dealer. Solstice moves to chevy or perhaps SAAB. add a folding hardtop and mabye a baby XLR for cadillac. G8? again, Saturn.

gives saturn a nifty car line-up.

[z28luvr01]

Pontiac is looking less and less necessary by the day. It seems Pontiac could easily be rolled into Chevy. The Impala can fill most of the needs of G8 buyers. The only reason I see for the G8 to survive is that it will be significantly smaller than the Impala, I would think. The Solstice could be made into a baby Corvette. The only thing I don't see working in Chevy's lineup is the future small RWD Pontiacs, because I think that having Aveo, Cobalt, small RWD cars, Malibu, and Impala would create too much confusion.

Pontiac can be viable if the Impala and G8 can target different buyers. The NG G8 would need to be smaller than the one we're going to get now, so that it is much more nimble than a RWD Impala. Then of course Chevy doesn't have a Solstice, nor a small RWD line of vehicles, and Pontiac looks necessary again. BUT, if the Impala and G8 aren't well enough differentiated, I don't see much point in having both, and then you could say the only reason to have Pontiac is the small RWD car(s), as everything else could go to Chevy.

The key to keeping Pontiac relevant in the marketplace is to plan each model to fit properly into the B-P-G channel without any overlap. There are people out there that, for whatever reason, will not be caught dead in a Chevy (balthy, I'm looking right at you), so cutting away Pontiac (or Buick, or GMC) will lose more customers. A G8 fits in fine with GMNA provided there isn't a SWB Zeta sedan with the same engine options planned for Buick or GMC. I would say that, assuming the Lucerne goes RWD for the next generation, that it rides on a longer wheelbase than the G8 and has a Northstar/Ultra V8, both of which would set it apart from the G8 enough to prevent overlap.

[GM Oshawa]

I work in the Oshawa Plant that will be getting the Camaro. We have not been told what other car products we are to get. We have had some Top GM Personal Tour the plant, meet with the Union before leaving for the day. There ownly comment was that they were impressed with the Oshawa Plant. The Union tried there best to get other product added to the Camaro line up during there visit . NOTHING WAS CONFIMED.....

[intrigued]

I see the Impala at 100-150k the Lucerne at about 100-120k and the Camaro at about 100k. I dont think the DTS is going to go zeta. There is a lot of talk of the DTS and STS being rolled into a Sigma 2 7/s class sized car that would be priced closer to the 5/e class, much like the CTS is closer in size to those but cheaper. I'd say there probably will be room for the G8 but will the sales numbers make the shift of production worthwile? I'd say possibly but pontiac is having a hard time coming up with sales successes latley. I love the G8 though and will get myself one wherever it comes from...

[intrigued]

I see the Impala at 100-150k the Lucerne at about 100-120k and the Camaro at about 100k. I dont think the DTS is going to go zeta. There is a lot of talk of the DTS and STS being rolled into a Sigma 2 7/s class sized car that would be priced closer to the 5/e class, much like the CTS is closer in size to those but cheaper. I'd say there probably will be room for the G8 but will the sales numbers make the shift of production worthwile? I'd say possibly but pontiac is having a hard time coming up with sales successes latley. I love the G8 though and will get myself one wherever it comes from...

[hyperv6]

I agree with the 100-150K Impala as the smaller cars will remain the most popular and drain off the sales. Big cars just don't sell like they used too.

As for making Pontiac viable I agree that preventing overlap is very important. Pontiac needs to be to Chevy like Acura is to Honda. A near car but a lower volume higher quality car but not at a high preimum price. If they do a GTO it needs a different wheel base and a more adult theme than a Pony car. That is how the original A body concept was over the F body. in other words a back seat that works for the family guy who likes fast coupes.

Pontiac could not afford to go it at lower volumes before in stand alone dealers but today Buick and Pontiac combined give them the ability to sell in lower volume and make a more specialized car.

Pontiacs image damage is not good but can be overcome with great product and time. If GM can remake Saturn the Poster child of all that was wrong at GM in the 80-90's they can remake Pontiac. The Next G6 will be very important as it will form the foundation Pontiac will be rebuilt on.

The cars that GM's future lies with are mid to small FWD cars. If gas prices jump those cars are what all the people flock too. If all you have are good RWD cars they will go to Toyota. The Malibu and Aura are very good and the next gen neext to jump ahead again to keep up.

GM, Ford and Chrysler have all had ok FWD cars but have paid the price for not having great mid size FWD cars.

[gm4life]

This guy nailed it as much as I love the G8 products like the Aura, new Malibu and G6 will be GM's foundation. Not RWD G8's or future RWD Cadillac's.

[gm4life]

I just want stuff to sell and if RWD will sell then that is fine.

[ehaase]

I only see the G8 being produced here if GM decided to consolidate Zeta production in North America and build Alpha only in Australia. However, I don't think there would be enough capacity to build all the Alphas in Australia, assuming GM could sell 50,000 Cadillac Alphas and 100,000 Pontiac Alphas per year. Hamtramck might be a nice place to produce Alphas.

Edited February 17, 2007 by ehaase

[Flybrian]

What exactly is Alpha?

[gm4life]

Fly I am with you good question.

[Northstar]

Alpha is supposedly the small RWD platform that 3-Series type vehicles can be made from.

[AxelTheRed]

Lord, I think GM should just build the G8 where Pontiacs were traditionally built...in Pontiac.

[hyperv6]

Lord, I think GM should just build the G8 where Pontiacs were traditionally built...in Pontiac.

The Fiero plant is still there but needs a lot of work.

[gm4life]

Hey go for it guys. That would be money well spent in my book, the build a Buick RWD sedan aside of it along with the GTO that might work. Leave the Camaro and the Impala for Canada.

[ZL-1]

Alpha is supposedly the small RWD platform that 3-Series type vehicles can be made from.

But the key word there is "supposedly", isn't it? Is there confirmation of the Alpha platform being approved?

EDIT - I was wondering if an Alpha RWD platform could be proposed, in the same fashion as Audi's modular platform I read about that will underpin the NG A4, A6 and A8.

Edited February 19, 2007 by ZL-1

[97regalGS]

Hey go for it guys. That would be money well spent in my book, the build a Buick RWD sedan aside of it along with the GTO that might work. Leave the Camaro and the Impala for Canada.

please go back and re-read posts by hudson, evok, chazman and northstar for production quantities at oshawa and predicted volumes.

then come back and tell me you want GM to invest MILLIONS of dollars in the Pontiac plant, or any other plant for that matter.

[Northstar]

But the key word there is "supposedly", isn't it? Is there confirmation of the Alpha platform being approved?

EDIT - I was wondering if an Alpha RWD platform could be proposed, in the same fashion as Audi's modular platform I read about that will underpin the NG A4, A6 and A8.

Certainly Alpha has not yet been approved, but that doesn't mean it is planned to happen. For example, the plan is to put the NG Lucerne on Zeta, but that hasn't been approved either (yet). Certainly Alpha could get canceled, but it would appear to be in the plans right now.

please go back and re-read posts by hudson, evok, chazman and northstar for production quantities at oshawa and predicted volumes.

then come back and tell me you want GM to invest MILLIONS of dollars in the Pontiac plant, or any other plant for that matter.

Yeah, Oshawa will be more than capable of handling all Zeta production, at this point at least. With the volumes they're projecting I don't see what's going to come along with volume that is high enough to merit converting another plant to Zeta production. Even if they exceed the targets by 100k combined between the Impala, Camaro, and Lucerne , they'll still be well below Oshawa's capacity.

[ZL-1]

Certainly Alpha has not yet been approved, but that doesn't mean it is planned to happen. For example, the plan is to put the NG Lucerne on Zeta, but that hasn't been approved either (yet). Certainly Alpha could get canceled, but it would appear to be in the plans right now.

I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm: I want a RWD sub-CTS Cadillac :AH-HA_wink:

Also, I was thinking about this Alpha platform and AH-HA's "Alpha and Omega" post... Like I posted above, I wonder if a modular platform could be in the works: something to accomodate several body styles, sizes (and brands - think holden, Pontiac and Cadillac)

Edited February 19, 2007 by ZL-1

[97regalGS]

I'm trying to curb my enthusiasm: I want a RWD sub-CTS Cadillac :AH-HA_wink:

Also, I was thinking about this Alpha platform and AH-HA's "Alpha and Omega" post... Like I posted above, I wonder if a modular platform could be in the works: something to accomodate several body styles, sizes (and brands - think holden, Pontiac and Cadillac)

i'm no mnfg expert, but don't think there is such thing as 'modular' platform.

however, recognize that the strategy go forward is to become a truly GLOBAL company, with competency centres for specific platforms located around the world, with minimal to no changes for each region. vechicles may be produced in multiple locations, but aside from sheet metal and interior bits and suspension tuning they are the same.

the scenario you describe "platform could be in the works: something to accomodate several body styles, sizes " sounds like Epsilon. Malibu, Maxx, G6, Aura, 9-3. two door, 4-door, and wagon with 2 discrete wheelbases.

however, epsilon was bastardized by each region that produced them so that there were signifcant cost overruns on the program and epsilon, in the end, was not a GLOBAL platofrm. epsilon 2 will address and correct that.

[ZL-1]

i'm no mnfg expert, but don't think there is such thing as 'modular' platform.

What I've been reading is that Audi's been stating the same platform will underpin everyhting from the A4 to the A8. I was under the impresssion it's Audi that calls it 'modular'.

however, recognize that the strategy go forward is to become a truly GLOBAL company, with competency centres for specific platforms located around the world, with minimal to no changes for each region. vechicles may be produced in multiple locations, but aside from sheet metal and interior bits and suspension tuning they are the same.

the scenario you describe "platform could be in the works: something to accomodate several body styles, sizes " sounds like Epsilon. Malibu, Maxx, G6, Aura, 9-3. two door, 4-door, and wagon with 2 discrete wheelbases.

however, epsilon was bastardized by each region that produced them so that there were signifcant cost overruns on the program and epsilon, in the end, was not a GLOBAL platofrm. epsilon 2 will address and correct that.

No doubt, but I think the same could be achieved with a RWD/AWD platform for products destined to break away from the 'FWD/AWD sedan plus minivan plus crossover' model. From a business point of view what matters is profitability and maybe (emphasis on 'maybe' - I don't have numbers) spending a little more in designing a more flexible platform can be recovered quicker with the added body styles.

[ponchoman49]

I'm hoping when this does move to NA, they give it more Pontiac like tail lights and less Asian like side styling. The rest of the car is good but these issues need to be addressed.

[gm4life]

I understand but it there are serious about moving RWD cars they might need more than that plant. Seriously I still find charm in American cars made in America. I udnerstand your point the plant in Oshawa would handle the demand fine for the projections.