FIRST LOOK: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT

[pow]

the mazda dealer here had 3 used ones. a broker had a used one. all were in the 21-22k range pricewise and under 10k miles.

Dealers around here are selling new 2006s for $21,990.

Let's hope there are "normal" G8 buyers (those who bought the Grand Prix new, perhaps) in addition to enthusiasts.

[dwightlooi]

Dealers around here are selling new 2006s for $21,990.

Let's hope there are "normal" G8 buyers (those who bought the Grand Prix new, perhaps) in addition to enthusiasts.

In order to appeal to people with "Normal" tastes the hood nostrils need to go. If they are offered as an appearance package for ricers, I can understand. But it'll turn off flocks of people who wants nothing to do with Firebirds of the 90s and 60s GTOs of the past. What GM has done with the G8 is take a perfectly great looking VE Commodore and turn it into a joke. Geez at least offer the customers a option to PAY to delete them. $500 bucks option to get rid of the Nostrils will find many happy takers IMHO. The G8 has a potential to be a BMW E60 5-series for the masses, don't make it into a Firebird.

Stuck in the 60s people who want stuck in the 60s looks already have the upcoming Camaro to cater to their tastes. That, and the likes of the Mustang, Chrysler 300 and Dodge charger. And they are entitled to their tastes. But there has to be a car from GM that doesn't look like an American muscle car or worse yet an American Muscle car with a bodykit -- not everyone aspires to tackiness. I was so happy when the G6 came out and the body cladding and ugliness that plagued Pontiac for decades went away. The Solstice was another clean, sleek and uncluttered beauty. Then the G6 GXP came along which was a bad omen I guess. Now it seems that Pontiac is going back to her ugly genes with nostrils and other silliness. Somebody commented that a G8 without nostrils will look like an Acura TL. Well, I take that as a compliment -- thats a seriously nice looking car!

If GM doesn't offer the nostril delete, I think somebody should go into making an aftermarket without the nostrils "CLEAN" hood for the car.

[LosAngeles]

In order to appeal to people with "Normal" tastes the hood nostrils need to go. If they are offered as an appearance package for ricers, I can understand. But it'll turn off flocks of people who wants nothing to do with Firebirds of the 90s and 60s GTOs of the past. What GM has done with the G8 is take a perfectly great looking VE Commodore and turn it into a joke. Geez at least offer the customers a option to PAY to delete them. $500 bucks option to get rid of the Nostrils will find many happy takers IMHO.

Dude. they're not gonna be on V6 cars already....eat it with the obsession with them.

And on a general side note, what are some of these newbies fans of anyway? I'm gone most all of 2006 and come back to seee this site flooded by some haters....

[gm4life]

I kinda like the scoops but then again I am Mr. Pontiac and Cadillac.

[BigPontiac]

again, you show error in two ways. you are an example of someone who can only see things in their own situation, and fail to see the car market as a whole. One if a car has 50/50 weight dist the car is only getting 50% of the weight propelling the car. all 4 wheels propelling the car = 100% of the weight. how is that not better.

It is not better because an AWD car with performance tires will just spin all 4 of its tires in the snow instead of just the rear tires with RWD. Your post definitely represents the uneducated view of the general buyer public. I draw a distinction now after having a car with AWD (which cost extra buy buy) then having to buy a set of winter tires anyway for the car to be able to be driven in winter. Tires matter.

and yes, CTS offers it because the BUYERS OF THE COMPETITION EXPECT IT. You just don't understand why certain things matter to other buyers, do you? Its moot whether it matters to you or not. If the target segment of buyers thinks its an advantage then offer it on the car. If the c class, a4, bmw3, infiniti G, and Lexus IS and GS as well as the STS ALL offer AWD then dammit the CTS better have it. The people buying these cars are smart and make money, so they must know what they want and what works better for them. I doubt they would listen to you try to convince them they do not need it.

and the by the way, snow tires is a good idea, but most folks don't want the hassle of seaosnal tire changes and even then with snow tires on both awd still beats rwd only for getting around. What's wrong with extra traction? Let's take one of your two winter boots off and let you try to walk up an icy and snowy inclined driveway.

Oh and why do I write off a CTS after an excellent test drive? How bout a monthly payment that's about 200-400 bucks a month higher than what I have? So many people around here like to talk smack like they can afford to buy any car for sale in the US. puhlease. We all have budgets. Half of those talking smack are driving beaters and could never come up with a down payment on a 6 year old used car. Much less a Camaro that everyone is so picky about.

Performance tires are designed for summer use. So, your analogy about shoes would more likely be trying to walk up an icy and snowy driveway in a set of running shoes during winter instead of wearing a pair of boots. Cars need proper foot wear in inclement weather too.

GM is business which manufactures and sells cars. Separating the "signal" from the "noise" they get in feedback on the internet and in focus groups is a huge challenge. Throwing out requirements like "must have AWD" for cars you're not likely to want to buy because they're beyond your budget is actually doing more harm to GM than good. The Chevy SSR is a perfect example of the "GM build it"...they did, then no one came.

[balthazar]

I'd love to know where in the Sloan hierarchy Pontiac fit (according to you) because Sloan generally went Chevrolet -> Oldsmobile -> Buick -> Cadillac. Pontiac was sometimes an experimental division, other times a virtual duplicate of Chevrolet SS. I disagree about Oldsmobile...I think Oldsmobile was fairly well defined as an everyman car for the upper-middle class.

Might I suggest you read up on GM and it's history. I would suggest you start with Sloan's book My Years With GM.

Tho it's a difficult read, that's good advice.

croc- according to Sloan : >>"The list for the still-dominant touring cars in 1924 was as follows: Chevrolet, $510; Olds, $750; Oakland, $945; Buick 4, $965, Buick 6, $1295; and Cadillac, $2985.

The most obvious gaps in this line were between the Cadillac and Buick 6 at the top, and between the Chevrolet and Olds at the bottom.

...From the strategic standpoint at that time, however, the most dangerous gap in the list was that between Chevrolet and Olds. It was big enough to constitute a volume demand and thereby to accomodate, on top of Chevrolet, a competitor against whom we then had no counter.

...On this reasoning, we made one of the most important decisions in the history of General Motors, namely to fill the gap above Chevrolet with a brand-new car with a new six-cylinder engine."<<

The 'so-called Pontiac car' was administrationally recognized around November of 1924.

When the Pontiac debuted, it's '26 touring car was priced at $825, nicely filling the gap between Chevrolet's $645 and Olds' $950.

Pontiac built it's last V-8 in 1981, tho purists will grit their teeth and correct you with '1979' (I'll go along with that). With the corporate engine mandate of 1982 and a muddled re-organization, Pontiac Engineering had little to nothing to do. If it is this time period that you claim Pontiacs were 'a virtual duplicate of Chevrolet SS'... a case could be made for that (tho there were hardly any SSs in this era, IIRC). Before that, tho, there were no 'Pontiac SSs'.

[97regalGS]

This car would be more successful as a Saturn than as a Pontiac!

Why? Brand Perception in the marketplace.

Pontiac doesn't have it. Saturn, despite the lousy product and lack of product in the past 15yrs, does.

[balthazar]

With the Solstice & G8, perhaps Pontiac will start to get 'it'.

The alternative is giving up.

[Croc]

Might I suggest you read up on GM and it's history.

I would suggest you start with Sloan's book My Years With GM.

Than I would jump to John DeLorean's book, On a Clear Day You Can See GM.

And finally, Maryann Keller's or Albert Lee's, Rude Awakeing or Call Me Roger.

Your comments are based upon personal opinon and not on the facts at GM nor do you appreciate the greater market forces that GM is up against.

---------------

Pontiac and Buick are arguably in worse shape today than Oldmobile was in when Rock tried to revive the brand. Rocks attempt to relaunch the brand after sales dropped by over half in a half decade go to show how difficult if not impossible it is to change public opinion in a crowded market with good product.

I clearly denoted my personal opinion on Oldsmobile. I have long admitted I have had a special fondness for Oldsmobile, and yes that plays into it. As far as Pontiac goes, the fact that it isn't even on the public's radar shows how irrelevant/poorly defined it is. Pontiac's "sport" has largely been cosmetic add-ons like ribbed door moldings, ground effects, and functionless hood scoops. Actual performance has been identical to its platform mates, especially Chevies.

Honestly, our debate comes down to this: you think Pontiac has sporty heritage cues worth keeping, and I really don't think the brand has had enough consistency to necessitate them. As far as the G8: as I said before, if this were the next volume midsized offering, yea, I'd be on Team Evok for a "Pontiac Is Screwed" campaign...but I think the sales data and general buyers preferences for sedans in the G8's price range show that for Pontiac's flagship, a more subdued, sleeper design is better. These buyers have enough money that they will eschew anything tacky and looking like the 2000 Bonneville in exterior execution. These buyers have respect for Acura, and this having the subdued sophistication of an Acura will help it IMO. Finally, Pontiac's buyers/fans skew young. Pontiac is off the radar for almost everyone except those who really can't afford to buy new...and that's why the subdued G8 style is good IMO because the people who can afford it generally aren't interested in a "LOOK AT ME!" design. They want cars that have the sport without being a visual radar-magnet.

[regfootball]

It is not better because an AWD car with performance tires will just spin all 4 of its tires in the snow instead of just the rear tires with RWD. Your post definitely represents the uneducated view of the general buyer public. I draw a distinction now after having a car with AWD (which cost extra buy buy) then having to buy a set of winter tires anyway for the car to be able to be driven in winter. Tires matter.

Performance tires are designed for summer use. So, your analogy about shoes would more likely be trying to walk up an icy and snowy driveway in a set of running shoes during winter instead of wearing a pair of boots. Cars need proper foot wear in inclement weather too.

GM is business which manufactures and sells cars. Separating the "signal" from the "noise" they get in feedback on the internet and in focus groups is a huge challenge. Throwing out requirements like "must have AWD" for cars you're not likely to want to buy because they're beyond your budget is actually doing more harm to GM than good. The Chevy SSR is a perfect example of the "GM build it"...they did, then no one came.

you obviously have no clue. buyers want optional AWD for RWD cars in bad weather and don't want the hassle of changing to snows in winter. i am a believer in snows, but most folks want convenience and security and AWD is what buyers want available in northern climes. you simply do not understand customers. People do not want the hassle and expense of tire changeovers when the car only needs to come with one set of all seasons. (hmm, I have room in my garage for 4 useless tires) I am not sure how you do not see this when only 1% of the population has snows right now. Me, I would maybe spring for snows if I had dough, I have before. But the average corporate good job loser with money just wants to get around with no fuss, but with status and performance. People like that want convenience. You only understand what you want. AWD is maybe not for smoky burnouts. but there is only so many of those losers left out there that spend time doing smoky burnouts.

Using your logic, none of the lux and near lux cars would have AWD available. using your logic, not one AWD BMW 3 series would have been sold. But obviously folks want it, and it is spreading down to more and more cars, fwd and rwd based.

Edited February 13, 2007 by regfootball

[BigPontiac]

you obviously have no clue. buyers want optional AWD for RWD cars in bad weather and don't want the hassle of changing to snows in winter. i am a believer in snows, but most folks want convenience and security and AWD is what buyers want available in northern climes. you simply do not understand customers. People do not want the hassle and expense of tire changeovers when the car only needs to come with one set of all seasons. (hmm, I have room in my garage for 4 useless tires) I am not sure how you do not see this when only 1% of the population has snows right now. Me, I would maybe spring for snows if I had dough, I have before. But the average corporate good job loser with money just wants to get around with no fuss, but with status and performance. People like that want convenience. You only understand what you want. AWD is maybe not for smoky burnouts. but there is only so many of those losers left out there that spend time doing smoky burnouts.

Using your logic, none of the lux and near lux cars would have AWD available. using your logic, not one AWD BMW 3 series would have been sold. But obviously folks want it, and it is spreading down to more and more cars, fwd and rwd based.

Just to recap our discussion:

RF: "My only reservation at this point is no AWD, but if I had a winter beater on the side I would even consider overlooking that."

BP: "AWD is not required to drive a car effectively in snow."

RF: "iT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO with whether the BUYERS OF THE CAR WANT IT OR NOT. if the buyer wants to buy a car with it, the car better have it."

RF: "buyers want optional AWD for RWD cars in bad weather"

Your original statement was that YOU wanted the G8 to have AWD for winter use. I responded that AWD is not required for winter. American Heritage Dictionary defines "required" as follows: Needed; essential: missing several required parts. As cars with FWD and RWD are capable of being driven in the winter, I stand by my assertion that AWD is not required for winter driving.

Beyond that, I find your argument confusing. You started off stating your personal preference, and that AWD is a DESIRABLE trait which is important to you. Then, you made the leap from your desires to all buyers, which is a completely different discussion. Additionally, your admission of not purchasing a CTS primarily based on the vehicle's price and not the availability of AWD implies that even if Pontiac were to offer the G8 with AWD you would still be unwilling to purchase one.

With that said, if you'd like to continue discussing the intended buyers of the G8 and the impact a lack of AWD will have on it's sales in the North American market, I'd appreciate seeing the facts and associated references to support your conclusions. For example, what industry reference can you provide for your statement "1% of the population has snows right now"? How many annual retail sales will be lost by not offering AWD? Which key markets would be affected? What additional costs would be added to the G8 program to introduce AWD as an option? Impacts to the manufacturing process?

[ffffffffffffff]

hey everybody,

I took some photos of the G8 at the Chicago Auto Show:

http://www.taxicabs.com/autoshow/chicago2007/Pontiac/G8/

Hope you enjoy,

Dave

[Cadillacfan]

Welcome ffffffffffffff to C&G and thanks for the great photos! The G8 really a great looking car and from this angle, it looks pretty hot. It also looks like it was getting as much attention as that red Solstice in the background. That sounds very promising.

[Robert Hall]

Me, I would maybe spring for snows if I had dough, I have before. But the average corporate good job loser with money just wants to get around with no fuss, but with status and performance. People like that want convenience.

I don't get your terminology...people with a good job aren't 'losers', I'd consider them 'winners'... I myself have a good corporate job..and believe in snow tires. Though I drive my SUV in the winter and not my RWD cars.

[regfootball]

Though I drive my SUV in the winter and not my RWD cars.

Why is that? Keep in mind, most folks can only afford to have one car for year round driving. They want that one car to have great all weather capability, regardless of whether its a sporting sedan or SUV.

We've got about 18 inches on the way here in the next two days. Anyone is welcome to bring their Mustang or CTSv or whatever to tool around in. Good luck to ya.

I would have thought folks like bigpontiac would see the figures on cars like the Mercs, BMW's and especially the success of the AWD G35 and the sales increases in the snow states as nobrainers as to why the market has spoken and wants available AWD. The sales increases are obvious. A fairly large group of certain folks will completely ignore a RWD car like the G35 unless AWD is offered. The conflicting nature of some folks here wanting Pontiac to succeed but yet to go 'low volume RWD only' and 'that should be ok' with customers is clearly offset by consumer response to cars like the G35 and the German marques offering and selling the AWD version.

Not having AWD as an option will hinder sales over time of the G8 and all Pontiacs once the newness wears off and the car has to be compared to other makers' models in competition. It depends on whether you feel they should only cater to you as a buyer and you don't think you need it or whether you think of it from a market perspective and competitors offering it in increasing numbers, because others do want it.

Edited February 28, 2007 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

Not having AWD as an option will hinder sales over time of the G8 and all Pontiacs once the newness wears off and the car has to be compared to other makers' models in competition. It depends on whether you feel they should only cater to you as a buyer and you don't think you need it or whether you think of it from a market perspective and competitors offering it in increasing numbers, because others do want it.

RWD hasn't seemed to hinder the sales of the 3-series, G35, CTS, 300c, etc. Only about 1/4th of them or less are sold with AWD <when available>.

[regfootball]

RWD hasn't seemed to hinder the sales of the 3-series, G35, CTS, 300c, etc. Only about 1/4th of them or less are sold with AWD <when available>.

link

what part about 15% increase in sales in one year and 30-40% of all G35 sales being AWD did you not get? more profitable?

"the northeast is now Infinitis best selling market"

43% sales INCREASE in the northeast? 21% overall increase in northern markets vs. 4% increase in south markets.

Edited February 28, 2007 by regfootball

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh gee... I was off by 5% on a shoot from the hip guess.... :bowdown:

[turbo200]

I am not debating the mechanics and technicals of the vehicle, but I bring up points that I believe are valid as to how the greater market will perceive this vehicle.

Guaging public opinion on a fan site is not going to show much.

For what it is worth, most people that I have discussed the vehicle with, who are not fluent in the day to day of automotive have been lukewarm to the styling. And it being a Pontiac did not help.

The G8 is good looking vehicle. But I highly doubt it will move the interest needle because it is derivative. In particular, the split grill styling is dated and tired and is a liability to an otherwise good product.

There is no doubt in my mind if the G8 was a Nissan or other brand it would be a hands down winner. It is just that Pontiac reputation calls for somthing bolder at least in the front end to spark real interest in the brand.

Good to hear you agree on the split grille front end. I too would love to see something new from Pontiac, something radically different from anything on the marketplace.

I've quoted this because it is, wait for it wait for it... the big picture. I personally on many different levels can appreciate the work GM has done in bringing an excellent sedan to our shores. The average consumer will NOT, as you've declared.

The picture you paint of Pontiac is exactly right, as if you needed me to say it, but the JD Power stats are fact and provide evidence for what you say is the perception of the average American. The average American shopper, especially on the coasts, could not care less about Pontiac. I think they stoppped being relevant when they last produced a truly worthy car, when was that again?

I think the G8 is good looking, I like it. But I am an enthusiast and I a GM fan. I have not conducted polls yet with the average person.

I do agree I would plunk down my $40k on the CTS instead of the $30k on the G8, though the G8 would be tantalizing. I just read the Motor Trend write up on CTS, and that is one sick article, does great justice to the car. I hope the improvements in suspension live up to the hype. AND that I like it more and more in person. [i'm still not satisfied with Cadillac's direction.]

[turbo200]

I want to add that because I have faith, I believe through some miracle, GM can pull off great marketing with this car that really defines what G8 is all about, the buzz from magazines will be extreme and the comparison tests will be numerous that G8 wins, the agressive pricing will be there, and word of mouth will transfer news about this car.....to the point that GM will have 40k-50k retail sales in a year for this car. It may take a while, but the only thing they can do wrong now is the pricing, the trims, and the marketing. If I can get a G8 GT with the V8, standard equipment only, for $30,500, then I think they can have a strong entry. Of course, that is still a lot of money for a Pontiac. But some of the same buyers that chose GTO could return, and that car was 32k, for a very impractical car.

[BigPontiac]

Why is that? Keep in mind, most folks can only afford to have one car for year round driving. They want that one car to have great all weather capability, regardless of whether its a sporting sedan or SUV.

We've got about 18 inches on the way here in the next two days. Anyone is welcome to bring their Mustang or CTSv or whatever to tool around in. Good luck to ya.

I would have thought folks like bigpontiac would see the figures on cars like the Mercs, BMW's and especially the success of the AWD G35 and the sales increases in the snow states as nobrainers as to why the market has spoken and wants available AWD. The sales increases are obvious. A fairly large group of certain folks will completely ignore a RWD car like the G35 unless AWD is offered. The conflicting nature of some folks here wanting Pontiac to succeed but yet to go 'low volume RWD only' and 'that should be ok' with customers is clearly offset by consumer response to cars like the G35 and the German marques offering and selling the AWD version.

Not having AWD as an option will hinder sales over time of the G8 and all Pontiacs once the newness wears off and the car has to be compared to other makers' models in competition. It depends on whether you feel they should only cater to you as a buyer and you don't think you need it or whether you think of it from a market perspective and competitors offering it in increasing numbers, because others do want it.

My dad actually has a 2006 Infiniti G35x...it's a nice car, great in the snow...even with only the all-season tires it came it. It's fantastic with winter tires. His biggest gripe with the car is that the manual transmission and AWD are mutually exclusive options.

The volume of vehicles sold needs to be balanced against the profit earned per vehicle. If GM could offer the G8 as a Pontiac for an investment of $100MM in RWD only, that buys them a new product in a reasonably short time frame with minimal risk. I don't believe the Commodore offers AWD as an option, so that would be an additional spend in engineering to make it available for Pontiac....not to mention the impacts to manufacturing. So if they can sell 50k/yr for their investment, or maybe an additional 25k units if AWD were offered, but if that were to cost an additional $100MM (re:$200MM) to bring to market, maybe they decided it wasn't worth the investment (or delay in product availability). The interviews with Bob Lutz at the G8 launch stated that one of the mistakes they made with the GTO was allocating too many cars to the Mid-West and not enough to the West Coast...that "lesson learned" is likely driving some of GM's thought process. With all the gripes I've heard on this board about the GTO, I've never heard "I didn't buy one because it didn't offer AWD"... The West Coast is likely a key market GM wants to grow...odds are the Rustbelt is a secondary priority.

IMO, GM needs to worry more about selling desirable cars at a profit than purely pushing volume. (Selling high volume at a financial loss is still a loss). Differentiating the brands with unique features and characteristics helps prevent overlap. For those who don't want RWD for winter driving, GM offers several other models in its other brands in FWD (or AWD) to meet their needs.

[turbo200]

IMO, GM needs to worry more about selling desirable cars at a profit than purely pushing volume. (Selling high volume at a financial loss is still a loss). Differentiating the brands with unique features and characteristics helps prevent overlap. For those who don't want RWD for winter driving, GM offers several other models in its other brands in FWD (or AWD) to meet their needs.

it does nothing for the future and image of the brand either. the exact reason why Pontiac's are viewed as cheap is because cars like the Gran Prix were allowed to exist for so long, Grand Am was purely rental and discount car, and G6 has uninspired interior, chevy rebadges, uninspired driving dynamcixcs, etc

Edited March 2, 2007 by turbo200

[Croc]

Croc you are out of touch with the points that a few of us are bringing up. Pontiac's heritage is a lot richer than what you have seen of the brand in your concsious life and you refuse to investigate the reality of what Pontiac was prior.

But you do in a round about way illustrate my points about the G8:

"These buyers have respect for Acura, and this having the subdued sophistication of an Acura will help it IMO."

And the public will just go out and purchase an Acura, or Infiniti or Lexus or BMW. Might as well get the real deal and the proper badge on the hood and airbag cover.

I just saw this post, otherwise I'd have responded sooner...

You're right, all I know about Pontiac is what it has been since the late 80s. Here's the thing: most consumers don't remember any of the "heritage" anyway as consumer memory is relatively short. Pontiac built a name for itself as a performance brand for those on a budget. DeLorean did a great job by dropping those big engines in those generic, budget cars to bring Pontiac to life. But, those cars were relatively unassuming in appearance, the quintessential "sleeper" if you will. That's what Pontiac needs to be again. The biggest hurdle though is that GM has spent the last decade promoting the Chevrolet SS sub-brand. When the SS badge is alive and well, what's the point of having Pontiac as performance on a budget? There's only one way to differentiate Pontiac, and that's to offer more refinement (including RWD) and a more polished image than a Chevrolet. Pontiac needs to thread the needle between Chevrolet SS and Saturn. Can they do it? With a highly-focused lineup of RWD vehicles, maybe. But the boy-racer styling has to go. Leave that to Chevrolet SS.

As for why not go to Acura (why you bring up Infiniti, Lexus or BMW I do not know--those are luxury brands) instead of Pontiac? Price and performance. Acuras really aren't about performance. Price Pontiacs along with mainstream brands, but have the performance to back it up. Smoke/blackout the headlamps. Have some side vents like the Solstice. Make rears like the G8 (smoked clear lenses with the colored light modules) the standard design vocabulary. And sure, add some curves instead of straight lines to the profile for the lower models. The G8 lines (straight) are fine for a vehicle in its class. The problem is that Pontiacs have a tendency to look cartoonish, especially the early-90s Grand AM, Grand Prix, and the 4th gen Firebird/Trans Am.

I actually think styling like the G6 would be good for the brand, except make it appear less tall & narrow--like the original G6 show car. Solstice is a little too rounded for my tastes, but again, its overall cues are good (side vents being my favorite, but also the taillamp shape, rear fog lamps, and profile curves). If the front bumper of the Solstice were more angular, the headlight shape a little less "cute" and the rear bumper more angular, then it would be perfect.

I still think the G8 will turn heads, something an Acura will not do. Of course, a lot of this debate is subjective, but honestly I think we should just wait until they hit the market this autumn. We will see who's right and who's not then, and if the market finds the G8 far too bland, then I will admit I was wrong and let you gloat. Deal?

[Oracle of Delphi]

I still think the G8 will turn heads, something an Acura will not do. Of course, a lot of this debate is subjective, but honestly I think we should just wait until they hit the market this autumn. We will see who's right and who's not then, and if the market finds the G8 far too bland, then I will admit I was wrong and let you gloat. Deal?

It doesn't turn my head, I actually hate the Pontiac G8! I hate the fact that it's a Holden rebadge and I hate the name and if you look at the G8 and the Aztek headon, there is something very Aztekish about the G8's looks and to me that is scary!

Good going Bob Putz!

Edited March 3, 2007 by Pontiac-Custom-S

[Croc]

If you look at the G8 and the Aztek headon, there is something very Aztekish about the G8's looks and to me that is scary!

Most cars look kinda scary from the vantage point of a toddler.

[GMTruckGuy74]

You people that keep comparing the Aztek and the G8 need to get a life. I personally like the ram air hood scoops, and performance Pontiacs throughout the '60s & '70s had them. I'm glad they're staying and that's all I can see that the G8 and Aztek share design-wise. Pontiac no longer makes their own engines (go back to 1979 if you want that feature; 1984 if you consider the Iron Duke 4 cyl in the Fiero to be the real last Pontiac-designed engine) and Pontiac Motor Division no longer designs and builds their own cars. If you can't acept this 20+ year old fact, then the G8 isn't meant for you. Keep buying cars from the '60s, restore/modify/whatever you want, and drive those. Pontiac and GM doesn't need you today.

Sorry to vent here, but a lot of you have complained about Pontiac not getting anything new, or more importantly RWD. Here's one hell of a car to bring people, real customers who want performance, trunk space, and 4-doors, back into Pontiac showrooms. Can you enthusiasts ever be happy? If GM eventually drops Pontiac, all I will say is that you naysayers were teh ones to help. Look at all of the pictures of the G8 from the Chicago auto show posted here by various people - there are a ton of young people in the background looking at the G8. Pontiac displays have had people, but not as many as say 10 years ago when the Trans Am was still around. I think it's refreshing to see young people back at Pontiac. Now when I see the G8 at the NYIAS, I'll keep my ears open to see what they're saying. But if it's anything like what people are saying at the Saturn displays within the last two years, then I'll bet the farm that Pontiac will be on it's way back from the grave.

I've been noted as the "Saturn guy" lately because of my SKY and AURA purchases. I could have easily gotten a Solstice and G6. But they're not to my liking. I've had three Pontiacs ('95 T/A, '99 G/A GT1, '00 G/P GT). I was in love with Pontiac from '88 until '03. When the new '04 G/P came out, Pontiac began to lose my interest. I wanted a Bonneville GXP, but the price was out of my range and then it was dropped in 2005. The GTO is an awesome car, but if I was going to go with a 2+2 instead of my roadster, I'd have to be able to use the trunk (sorry, but my son's stroller could never fit in there). Sunfire, Montana SV6, Grand Prix <--- none of those appealed to me. Saturn caught my eye with their new design direction and well-known dealership experience. But the G8 (yes, I agree - I'd like a real name too) has definitely made me rethink about Pontiac and when the AURA lease is up at the end of 2009, you can bet I'll make a visit to the local Pontiac dealer to consider one as my next car.

Give the market the chance to determine how successful the G8 will be. Those of you that are putting the car down now, would you even be in the market for one?

[GMTruckGuy74]

if you look at the G8 and the Aztek headon, there is something very Aztekish about the G8's looks and to me that is scary!

I'm sorry, but this analogy is just plain stupid. Take a look at this analogy (yes, it's just as stupid:

if you look at the Tahoe and the Uplander headon, there is something very Uplanderish about the Tahoe's looks and to me that is scary!

[Cory Wolfe]

You people that keep comparing the Aztek and the G8 need to get a life. I personally like the ram air hood scoops, and performance Pontiacs throughout the '60s & '70s had them. I'm glad they're staying and that's all I can see that the G8 and Aztek share design-wise. Pontiac no longer makes their own engines (go back to 1979 if you want that feature; 1984 if you consider the Iron Duke 4 cyl in the Fiero to be the real last Pontiac-designed engine) and Pontiac Motor Division no longer designs and builds their own cars. If you can't acept this 20+ year old fact, then the G8 isn't meant for you. Keep buying cars from the '60s, restore/modify/whatever you want, and drive those. Pontiac and GM doesn't need you today.

Sorry to vent here, but a lot of you have complained about Pontiac not getting anything new, or more importantly RWD. Here's one hell of a car to bring people, real customers who want performance, trunk space, and 4-doors, back into Pontiac showrooms. Can you enthusiasts ever be happy? If GM eventually drops Pontiac, all I will say is that you naysayers were teh ones to help. Look at all of the pictures of the G8 from the Chicago auto show posted here by various people - there are a ton of young people in the background looking at the G8. Pontiac displays have had people, but not as many as say 10 years ago when the Trans Am was still around. I think it's refreshing to see young people back at Pontiac. Now when I see the G8 at the NYIAS, I'll keep my ears open to see what they're saying. But if it's anything like what people are saying at the Saturn displays within the last two years, then I'll bet the farm that Pontiac will be on it's way back from the grave.

I've been noted as the "Saturn guy" lately because of my SKY and AURA purchases. I could have easily gotten a Solstice and G6. But they're not to my liking. I've had three Pontiacs ('95 T/A, '99 G/A GT1, '00 G/P GT). I was in love with Pontiac from '88 until '03. When the new '04 G/P came out, Pontiac began to lose my interest. I wanted a Bonneville GXP, but the price was out of my range and then it was dropped in 2005. The GTO is an awesome car, but if I was going to go with a 2+2 instead of my roadster, I'd have to be able to use the trunk (sorry, but my son's stroller could never fit in there). Sunfire, Montana SV6, Grand Prix <--- none of those appealed to me. Saturn caught my eye with their new design direction and well-known dealership experience. But the G8 (yes, I agree - I'd like a real name too) has definitely made me rethink about Pontiac and when the AURA lease is up at the end of 2009, you can bet I'll make a visit to the local Pontiac dealer to consider one as my next car.

Give the market the chance to determine how successful the G8 will be. Those of you that are putting the car down now, would you even be in the market for one?

Well said. This Pontiac fanatic agrees.

[LosAngeles]

I'm sorry, but this analogy is just plain stupid. Take a look at this analogy (yes, it's just as stupid:

Thing about it is no one goes out of their way to dis Chevy.

[Sixty8panther]

The hood vents are idiotic. The only thing missing is a flaming chicken.

I disagree... I love the ram air... and if I ever buy a V8 G8 I'll be

sure to apply a flaming phoenix like on a '73 Firebird TA SD455.

[bowtie_dude]

I don't like the hood scoops either. Tacky.

[Camino LS6]

Just re-read this entire thread- whew! am I tired.

I think that the G8 will do extremely well for Pontiac. If I wanted a sedan, this car would be the one. There is nothing like it on the market really: BMW is way too expensive to be a competitor and the LH cars are large and coarse by comparison. No, there would be no competition for my business if I wanted a sedan. I would buy this car.

Why I will not be buying it:

- New El Camino is coming

- New GTO is coming

- I'd rather have a Camaro than any sedan

Funny, all my candidates are Zetas.

In this sedan-happy world, I think this is the best option on the market.

Yes, I could buy it. But I'll be waiting for the El Camino instead while enjoying my GTO.