FIRST LOOK: 2008 Pontiac G8 GT

[ocnblu]

The last Bonneville GXP was better looking than the G8. It was all Pontiac, not just the grille and emblems. The interior of the last Bonneville was overdone, that much is obvious, and this new car's interior blows it away, but for exterior style, there is simply no comparison. That Bonneville GXP was authentic, and with the right drive wheels and a more sane interior, would have been a righteous competitor instead of a last gasp. The G6 is authentic. The Solstice is authentic. This car's design is foreign, and I don't mean it just literally, I mean figuritively.

Viper, you're reaching pretty far to defend this car as having any design continuity at all. A grille and badges (and that's all it is!) does not a brand make!

[illustcat]

The last Bonneville GXP was better looking than the G8.[/i]

okay??? If you believe that the Bonneville with its gaudy long ass hood with its crazy stretch out lights was a true Pontiac, then there is no use on discussing modern design wit you. The proportions on this car are a million times better and more aggressive. I'm not 100% in love with this car but this is the best looking Pontiac I've seen since.......damn since I've been driving. I think Pontiac will have no problem selling these, especially since they are only going to be a limited number of them sold. Every site I look at, and every person I talk to, who are not car snobs or traditionalist LOVE this car. Obviously on car sites people are passionate about cars, but we are a small percentage of the buying public. Pontiac has a winner.

Edited February 10, 2007 by illustcat

[balthazar]

I could easily say the vehicles of Pontiac's 'peak' were nothing special.... a simple chop could easily make one look like other vehicles of the same time period.

Alrightthen- allow me to perform the EXACT same tweaks:

Yup- I'm convinced- bottom car is a Cadillac. Disregard everything I posted above.

[Flybrian]

Well...

Sorry, but its also true.

[balthazar]

What's also true; that exterior-wise they share windshields, roof panels (tho not C-pillars) & doors... and that's it?

Of course these are based off the same frame and underbody from the same parent corporation, but you could not casually change the Chevelle's grille interior and emblem and pass it off as a.... Torino.

Look, most of you young squirts are only used to '90s Pontiacs, and in comparison there the G8 is very welcome. But it is not a rejuvination to the degree Cadillac has rejuvinated itself. In the '60s Pontiac lead the segment, esp stylistically: hidden taillamps, stacked headlights, Coke-bottle fuselages, hidden wipers and antenna, minimal-trim exteriors- all these features were widely copied soon after.

The G8 is nearly a copy already- there will be no emulation... tho that's what Pontiac could use a grand shot of (beyond the Solstice's contribution).

This is what many of you guys clamour for: not merely matching the competition, but blowing them away.

I'm still standing here....

Edited February 10, 2007 by balthazar

[Cory Wolfe]

The last Bonneville GXP was better looking than the G8. It was all Pontiac, not just the grille and emblems. The interior of the last Bonneville was overdone, that much is obvious, and this new car's interior blows it away, but for exterior style, there is simply no comparison. That Bonneville GXP was authentic, and with the right drive wheels and a more sane interior, would have been a righteous competitor instead of a last gasp. The G6 is authentic. The Solstice is authentic. This car's design is foreign, and I don't mean it just literally, I mean figuritively.

Viper, you're reaching pretty far to defend this car as having any design continuity at all. A grille and badges (and that's all it is!) does not a brand make!

I don't care if it's a rebadge. I care about the design itself. I look at it, even minus the grill and badges, and I see a car that fits in with other recent Pontiacs. That's what buyers are going to see... along with all the other positives this car has. Say what you want, but all you and Balthy are doing is needlessly bitching. End of story.

Well...

Sorry, but its also true.

Exactly.

[Cory Wolfe]

Alrightthen- allow me to perform the EXACT same tweaks:

Yup- I'm convinced- bottom car is a Cadillac. Disregard everything I posted above.

As I said... That chop looks like a Cadillac as much as the other one looks like an Acura.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I don't understand the point of these showcars. It just makes the real thing disappointing. As for the car itself, it looks decent but not very exciting. It will do its job for a few years.

I agree with you, I'm not a fan of this car at all.

[ocnblu]

illustcat, there was certainly no mistaking that old Bonneville. The grille, hood scoops, and badges are the only brand indicators on the G8, same as the GTO. The G8 has an Americanized understructure for safety and all, which is better, but to look at it from any angle except the front you'd never know what it's supposed to be. All I'm saying is, it needs more brand indicators. Right now, it's the Anycar GT.

[dwightlooi]

The lower car looks terrific compared to the G8 or ANY Pontiac Sedan past or present.

[regfootball]

no wonder the GTO failed. People's pent up expectations of what a Pontiac ought to look like and be is so unrealistically stratospheric its amazing any of you sleep at night. Using a straight man as a reference, if Laetitia Casta, a thin Tyra Banks, and Elle MacPherson came to your house and offered to let you have a drunken orgy with them on demand, you'd nitpick the day of the week and the brand of the wine you'd have to drink and bitch about how the bass and treble are set on the stereo.

And y'all know how f@#king picky I am. The world is not perfect. But GM has given us a five series you can buy for half the price that will shred rear tires and looks absolutely sexy and contemporary. Its interior will likely be GM's best in material execution, especially for this price point. They are doing their best to keep price down so losers like all of us who don't have high end jobs can theoretcially buy this car. Being able to offer this in spite of high gas prices and all the ecoweenies shoving Prius' down our throat alone is inconceivable. You will be able to track race this car vs. a corvette and stay in the game. There will be real room for 4 fat ass American adults in this car. There are VERY FEW CARS alone with this kind of performance that you can haul your coworkers to lunch in and not have inappropriate touching in the car on the way!

My God. Sometimes in life God leaves you a gift on a silver platter, but some are too misled to see it. This is a car GM detroit was incapable of building on its own. It is now coming, because of Holden's help. There are many other options, but this is in the game. No wonder the GTO failed. The only things that would have kept me from thinking about a GTO were 2 doors only, no moonroof, and gas tank in the trunk with no cargo space. But people are straining so hard to find lame ass reasons for dissing this car.

They don't build tv's to look like funiture cabinets anymore. Today they look different. Same thing with cars. Product design changes over time. The G8 currently meets contemporary style. This is the look that is in. If older GM styling was an in look, GM would be in no financial trouble. People with money will like the look of the G8.

Meh. My only reservation at this point is no AWD, but if I had a winter beater on the side I would even consider overlooking that.

This car is served up on a silver platter, like waking up in the morning with a set of your lovers genitals in your face. Grab life by the horns and do it, or take a pass, but don't say the effort isn't there. MAN.

Edited February 10, 2007 by regfootball

[Robert Hall]

The last Bonneville GXP was better looking than the G8.

Whatever...the Bonneville was a dated FWD car with awkward FWD proportions and a nasty interior...the G8 is so much better, so much more modern...a crisp, clean design..can't even compare the two..

The G8 doesn't look like a Pontiac from 1959, 1970, 1995, whatever. BFD! Get over it..this is a Pontiac for the future!

Edited February 10, 2007 by moltar

[evok]

What dissenters such as ocn & I are asking for is MORE; more Pontiac and more individuality. Pushing aside the re-clipped Commodore scenario- that is still something to strive for: true individualistic brand identity. It's just not in the G8. At Pontiac's peak, every line worked and emulation followed- there is nothing here to follow because it's mid-pack as it is.

Forgetting about the business reasons for bringing this thing over as a Pontiac, I stand with you and ocn and share the same assessment of the G8.

Edited February 10, 2007 by evok

[enzl]

no wonder the GTO failed. People's pent up expectations of what a Pontiac ought to look like and be is so unrealistically stratospheric its amazing any of you sleep at night. Using a straight man as a reference, if Laetitia Casta, a thin Tyra Banks, and Elle MacPherson came to your house and offered to let you have a drunken orgy with them on demand, you'd nitpick the day of the week and the brand of the wine you'd have to drink and bitch about how the bass and treble are set on the stereo.

And y'all know how f@#king picky I am. The world is not perfect. But GM has given us a five series you can buy for half the price that will shred rear tires and looks absolutely sexy and contemporary. Its interior will likely be GM's best in material execution, especially for this price point. They are doing their best to keep price down so losers like all of us who don't have high end jobs can theoretcially buy this car. Being able to offer this in spite of high gas prices and all the ecoweenies shoving Prius' down our throat alone is inconceivable. You will be able to track race this car vs. a corvette and stay in the game. There will be real room for 4 fat ass American adults in this car. There are VERY FEW CARS alone with this kind of performance that you can haul your coworkers to lunch in and not have inappropriate touching in the car on the way!

My God. Sometimes in life God leaves you a gift on a silver platter, but some are too misled to see it. This is a car GM detroit was incapable of building on its own. It is now coming, because of Holden's help. There are many other options, but this is in the game. No wonder the GTO failed. The only things that would have kept me from thinking about a GTO were 2 doors only, no moonroof, and gas tank in the trunk with no cargo space. But people are straining so hard to find lame ass reasons for dissing this car.

They don't build tv's to look like funiture cabinets anymore. Today they look different. Same thing with cars. Product design changes over time. The G8 currently meets contemporary style. This is the look that is in. If older GM styling was an in look, GM would be in no financial trouble. People with money will like the look of the G8.

Meh. My only reservation at this point is no AWD, but if I had a winter beater on the side I would even consider overlooking that.

This car is served up on a silver platter, like waking up in the morning with a set of your lovers genitals in your face. Grab life by the horns and do it, or take a pass, but don't say the effort isn't there. MAN.

100% agree. Except maybe the genitals part..: )

If this thing comes in at 24-25k and tops at 34 or so, it'll sell and give Pontiac dealers a reason to get up in the morning...as far as Pontiac 'excitement'---I'm not sure what that means anymore. I suspect GM feels similarly, therefore this makes the most sense...

[evok]

If this thing comes in at 24-25k and tops at 34 or so, it'll sell and give Pontiac dealers a reason to get up in the morning...as far as Pontiac 'excitement'---I'm not sure what that means anymore. I suspect GM feels similarly, therefore this makes the most sense...

What this car means to the greater public:

QUOTE(buyacargetacheck @ Mar 18 2006, 10:34 AM)

There is a huge level of envy with BMW ownership. There is none with a Pontiac.

Edited February 10, 2007 by evok

[MyerShift]

I keep looking this over, and I must say, it really looks like a modern interpretation of the last Bonneville and last two Grand Prix's. The front, the greenhouse, the rear... All have some of those in it. It's just a very modern, muscular, and straight foward looking design that's evocative of those. Unless you were looking for something all out retro or more bold than a little old lady frightening Trans Am... I'm not sure how anyone could possibly be disappointed. Sure, it's just a Commodore, but it translates very well with Pontiac's recent designs.

As far as little complaints like the hood scoops and taillights... Please tell me how they're any worse than these:

I don't recall anyone complaining about those...

Well, that's because I wasn't too involved in GTO discussions, but not only do I hate the scoops (lights are fine) I think that they are an even dumber idea on a largish four door saloon car.

[BigPontiac]

Appears to leverage some of the WRONG Pontiac styling cues from the past.

[hyperv6]

If this car was done only as a Pontiac and no one ever knew of the Holden they would not have as negitive out look.

At this point I don't think it really is that important to just satisfy the Pontiac people as there are so few left and many of them are not buying anyway.

I agree the Bonnie GXP it a great looking car and at the price it was should have been RWD. But the simple fact of Pontiac looking like a Pontiac thing is just a total fraud.

I would bet we can't 10 People here to agree if we asked them what should a GTO look like. Same goes for the Bonnie, GP etc.

In the new market today and in attempts to save Pontiac with out risking GM anymore great debt they already have. Pontiac has come up with a car that if price well will appeal to all people not just Pontiac people.

Pontiac need to take sales from Acura, Lexus, VW, Low end Audi and the like. Stealing sales from Chevy will not get it anymore. Pontiac is not competing with Chevy Ford and Chysler anymore and it is time for many to wake up and realize that not everyone in the past liked Pontiac's and if they did we would not be tring to save the division now.

It is time to open your minds and accept change. All are not going to like everything but as long as it bring people into a Pontiac dealer that never would have come in before that is the key here.

I am a long time Pontiac fan and have enjoyed and driven many of the cars form the past. There was contiversy whe the widetrack appeared. People spoke out when the Chrome was remoced from much of the 63 GP. when the 69 GP appeared many were shocked and took a while to understand the long hood and funny door handles. Today they are looked upon as classics even though at the time they came out many were unsure of the first impressions.

Anymore if you Can appeal to 50% or more of the people with a new car you doing good as First impressions grow and more will fall in with their like of a car most times. We see this every time a new Vette comes out with 50% loving it and 50% not sure and sales keep chugging along.

Anyway I know we can sit here and argue the pro's and con's here about styling and AWD but the only real test will be sales. So it is in the best itis in interest of all just to watch how this car sells and it will prove if Pontiac did the right thing here or not. No one here can predict this and if you could I am sure Pontiac would pay you well to do so.

I have a hunch the Pontiac future will improve with each model and we as Pontiac fans will adapt as l expecially if others take interest in our brand. If we don't gain new members from outsidethe Pontiac family I will be seeing you at the Orphan car show in Michigan.

It is time we just let the general public not just Pontiac fans voice their opinion on this car with their buying dollars. Their opinion is the one that counts.

While it may not be everything every one wants at least it is not an Aztec.

[BigPontiac]

Meh. My only reservation at this point is no AWD, but if I had a winter beater on the side I would even consider overlooking that.

AWD is not required to drive a car effectively in snow. An Audi A4 Quattro with performance tires will not perform well in snow. A Mini Cooper S, Mazda 3 or Subaru WRX with performance tires will not perform well in snow. Whether the car is front, rear or all-wheel drive the tires have a HUGE impact on it's performance in inclement weather...particularly winter.

A BMW 3-Series or Cadillac CTS with RWD, traction control and a set of 4 winter tires will run out of ground clearance before it runs out of traction in a snow storm. I drove my old 2000 BMW 323i in snow all the time with zero issues on a set of Blizzaks, 5 speed manual trans, and traction control. My friend's doing the same thing with his CTS.

[evok]

If this car was done only as a Pontiac and no one ever knew of the Holden they would not have as negitive out look.

No - That is the point a few of us are making, as a stand alone product it lacks Pontiac attributes.

[ral1960]

The difference between the press release and real-life photos is night and day. Stupid GM.

So the shape is an 06 Altima on steroids--it works. I'll bet they change everything but the greenhouse in 2010.

I like the front better than any Commodore's, though I'd rather not have scoops. The sloping nose and rounded front help a lot. It isn't ground-breaking, but it's immediately recognizable as a Pontiac.

In every way, the G8 is an improvement over the GP and Bonneville. Except winter traction.

[4gm]

Does anyone know if GM has an overall plan for Pontiac? The G8 is great but it does seem somewhat stopgappish. The fact that every GM division except Pontiac is getting product new from the ground up specifically made for America is strange to me.

[Croc]

No - That is the point a few of us are making, as a stand alone product it lacks Pontiac attributes.

The larger question is...what Pontiac attributes should be kept? Frankly, I'm over the "clay Chevy with a fork down the side" look of past Pontiacs. This looks sporty and sophisticated, and very upscale. I kinda liken this to the Lucerne: it's definitely a Buick, and a very successful one (success not limited simply to sales numbers), but it lacks the oval grille, full-length taillamps, sweepspear styling, and other traditional "Buick" design cues, but has the ventiports. The G8 has the side vents like the Solstice, the aggressive, top-of-the-decklid taillamps of both the Solstice and G6 coupe, the taillamps look blackened in the pics, and it has horizontal headlamps and hood scoops. To me, there are plenty of Pontiac cues, most importantly to me the overall stance of the vehicle...like a cat about to pounce.

A lot of the traditional Pontiac cues were just tacky. How many of them existed on the universally-praised G6 showcar? That thing had Acura comparisons when it was released too! But we all wish the EPI G6 was the showcar...

[BigPontiac]

Well...

Sorry, but its also true.

Those cars had different sheetmetal...reasonably unique across GM divisions...

These two are more like the Commodore to G8 transformation:

'68 Chevy Chevelle

'68 Pontiac Beaumont (Canada)

Edited February 10, 2007 by BigPontiac

[ocnblu]

How many "stopgaps" are we going to get before we get a commitment from GMNA to renew Pontiac at the top end? This is two in a row now. I will accept this car for a couple of model years because I can't do a damn thing about it, but I want to see brand-specific design changes and a North American factory for this car soon. GMNA Zetas, spread across the divisions except for Cadillac. This car comes across as another rush job, design-wise for Pontiac (fine for Holden, make no mistake). At least it has NA function more carefully integrated. Edited February 10, 2007 by ocnblu

[Croc]

This car really isn't a stop gap. I don't believe there's any replacement planned, and I think evok said as much earlier.

Frankly, this car doesn't look like anything else in the GMNA lineup. No one was bitching about developing "Saturn-specific" cues for the Opels, I don't see why GM cannot do this. Sales for Pontiac have been freefalling for a while, and they need a new direction. Did the Solstice have any Pontiac cues? No, not really. Neither does this...but they have some similar cues, so maybe they will develop a new, cleaner, more sophisticated design vocabulary. Let's hope.

[Mr.Krinkle]

This car to me represents a change and signals the direction Pontiac is headed. Maybe once/if it catches on there will be more. Then more character will be incorporated. That was the original intent of the cts if i recall correctly. I think this will help usher in that rejuvention that they need.

Lets be honest, with retail sales of the gp hovering at 30% no one cares what a pontiac is was or should be.

This at least is getting some attention. Most of it good from what I gather. For now, I see it as a start. Hope it sells well otherwise it will be harder and harder to make a case for pontiac.

[Cory Wolfe]

no wonder the GTO failed. People's pent up expectations of what a Pontiac ought to look like and be is so unrealistically stratospheric its amazing any of you sleep at night. Using a straight man as a reference, if Laetitia Casta, a thin Tyra Banks, and Elle MacPherson came to your house and offered to let you have a drunken orgy with them on demand, you'd nitpick the day of the week and the brand of the wine you'd have to drink and bitch about how the bass and treble are set on the stereo.

And y'all know how f@#king picky I am. The world is not perfect. But GM has given us a five series you can buy for half the price that will shred rear tires and looks absolutely sexy and contemporary. Its interior will likely be GM's best in material execution, especially for this price point. They are doing their best to keep price down so losers like all of us who don't have high end jobs can theoretcially buy this car. Being able to offer this in spite of high gas prices and all the ecoweenies shoving Prius' down our throat alone is inconceivable. You will be able to track race this car vs. a corvette and stay in the game. There will be real room for 4 fat ass American adults in this car. There are VERY FEW CARS alone with this kind of performance that you can haul your coworkers to lunch in and not have inappropriate touching in the car on the way!

My God. Sometimes in life God leaves you a gift on a silver platter, but some are too misled to see it. This is a car GM detroit was incapable of building on its own. It is now coming, because of Holden's help. There are many other options, but this is in the game. No wonder the GTO failed. The only things that would have kept me from thinking about a GTO were 2 doors only, no moonroof, and gas tank in the trunk with no cargo space. But people are straining so hard to find lame ass reasons for dissing this car.

They don't build tv's to look like funiture cabinets anymore. Today they look different. Same thing with cars. Product design changes over time. The G8 currently meets contemporary style. This is the look that is in. If older GM styling was an in look, GM would be in no financial trouble. People with money will like the look of the G8.

Meh. My only reservation at this point is no AWD, but if I had a winter beater on the side I would even consider overlooking that.

This car is served up on a silver platter, like waking up in the morning with a set of your lovers genitals in your face. Grab life by the horns and do it, or take a pass, but don't say the effort isn't there. MAN.

Whatever...the Bonneville was a dated FWD car with awkward FWD proportions and a nasty interior...the G8 is so much better, so much more modern...a crisp, clean design..can't even compare the two..

The G8 doesn't look like a Pontiac from 1959, 1970, 1995, whatever. BFD! Get over it..this is a Pontiac for the future!

If this car was done only as a Pontiac and no one ever knew of the Holden they would not have as negitive out look.

At this point I don't think it really is that important to just satisfy the Pontiac people as there are so few left and many of them are not buying anyway.

I agree the Bonnie GXP it a great looking car and at the price it was should have been RWD. But the simple fact of Pontiac looking like a Pontiac thing is just a total fraud.

I would bet we can't 10 People here to agree if we asked them what should a GTO look like. Same goes for the Bonnie, GP etc.

In the new market today and in attempts to save Pontiac with out risking GM anymore great debt they already have. Pontiac has come up with a car that if price well will appeal to all people not just Pontiac people.

Pontiac need to take sales from Acura, Lexus, VW, Low end Audi and the like. Stealing sales from Chevy will not get it anymore. Pontiac is not competing with Chevy Ford and Chysler anymore and it is time for many to wake up and realize that not everyone in the past liked Pontiac's and if they did we would not be tring to save the division now.

It is time to open your minds and accept change. All are not going to like everything but as long as it bring people into a Pontiac dealer that never would have come in before that is the key here.

I am a long time Pontiac fan and have enjoyed and driven many of the cars form the past. There was contiversy whe the widetrack appeared. People spoke out when the Chrome was remoced from much of the 63 GP. when the 69 GP appeared many were shocked and took a while to understand the long hood and funny door handles. Today they are looked upon as classics even though at the time they came out many were unsure of the first impressions.

Anymore if you Can appeal to 50% or more of the people with a new car you doing good as First impressions grow and more will fall in with their like of a car most times. We see this every time a new Vette comes out with 50% loving it and 50% not sure and sales keep chugging along.

Anyway I know we can sit here and argue the pro's and con's here about styling and AWD but the only real test will be sales. So it is in the best itis in interest of all just to watch how this car sells and it will prove if Pontiac did the right thing here or not. No one here can predict this and if you could I am sure Pontiac would pay you well to do so.

I have a hunch the Pontiac future will improve with each model and we as Pontiac fans will adapt as l expecially if others take interest in our brand. If we don't gain new members from outsidethe Pontiac family I will be seeing you at the Orphan car show in Michigan.

It is time we just let the general public not just Pontiac fans voice their opinion on this car with their buying dollars. Their opinion is the one that counts.

While it may not be everything every one wants at least it is not an Aztec.

The larger question is...what Pontiac attributes should be kept? Frankly, I'm over the "clay Chevy with a fork down the side" look of past Pontiacs. This looks sporty and sophisticated, and very upscale. I kinda liken this to the Lucerne: it's definitely a Buick, and a very successful one (success not limited simply to sales numbers), but it lacks the oval grille, full-length taillamps, sweepspear styling, and other traditional "Buick" design cues, but has the ventiports. The G8 has the side vents like the Solstice, the aggressive, top-of-the-decklid taillamps of both the Solstice and G6 coupe, the taillamps look blackened in the pics, and it has horizontal headlamps and hood scoops. To me, there are plenty of Pontiac cues, most importantly to me the overall stance of the vehicle...like a cat about to pounce.

A lot of the traditional Pontiac cues were just tacky. How many of them existed on the universally-praised G6 showcar? That thing had Acura comparisons when it was released too! But we all wish the EPI G6 was the showcar...

This car really isn't a stop gap. I don't believe there's any replacement planned, and I think evok said as much earlier.

Frankly, this car doesn't look like anything else in the GMNA lineup. No one was bitching about developing "Saturn-specific" cues for the Opels, I don't see why GM cannot do this. Sales for Pontiac have been freefalling for a while, and they need a new direction. Did the Solstice have any Pontiac cues? No, not really. Neither does this...but they have some similar cues, so maybe they will develop a new, cleaner, more sophisticated design vocabulary. Let's hope.

And yet another

Over 60% of people here gave this car a 5, including me. The only other vehicles I've felt compelled enough to give a 5 was the CTS. Usually, my main complaints are something being off with the design. I'm picky. I'm even pickier about Pontiacs. This G8 looks perfect to me. There's not one thing I'd want to change about it. It looks downright sexy compared to any other Pontiac that someone mentioned as being "more Pontiac". Yet, it looks perfectly fine next to any of these. Not bland, not impure, not completely out of line. Fine. As I've said, it's a chiseled, muscular, edgy, and stealthy evolution of the other recent Pontiacs, mostly the Bonneville GXP. Whether or not it's a rebadge is absolutely irrelevant. It has Pontiac cues, but some of you are just too stubborn to actually see them and are only complaining because it was designed as Holden. Guess what, that Holden looks alot like a Pontiac. I love Pontiac to death... I love it and I'm sick of people complaining. This is the most I've been enthusiastic about a GM vehicle in a while.

Edited February 10, 2007 by blackviper8891

[evok]

The larger question is...what Pontiac attributes should be kept?

[ocnblu]

Either of those two front ends would have been so welcomed. They crackle with Pontiacness, with character, with authenticity, with individuality and distinctiveness. We need curves where we have straight lines. All of this can be done in a modern way while being true to the brand.

[evok]

Frankly, this car doesn't look like anything else in the GMNA lineup.

True!

but

besides the tired, tack-on, after though split grill, it could fall right into Acura's, Nissan's or Mitsubishi's line-up.

[BigPontiac]

Over 60% of people here gave this car a 5, including me. The only other vehicles I've felt compelled enough to give a 5 was the CTS. Usually, my main complaints are something being off with the design. I'm picky. I'm even pickier about Pontiacs. This G8 looks perfect to me. There's not one thing I'd want to change about it. It looks downright sexy compared to any other Pontiac that someone mentioned as being "more Pontiac". Yet, it looks perfectly fine next to any of these. Not bland, not impure, not completely out of line. Fine. As I've said, it's a chiseled, muscular, edgy, and stealthy evolution of the other recent Pontiacs, mostly the Bonneville GXP. Whether or not it's a rebadge is absolutely irrelevant. It has Pontiac cues, but some of you are just too stubborn to actually see them and are only complaining because it was designed as Holden. Guess what, that Holden looks alot like a Pontiac. I love Pontiac to death... I love it and I'm sick of people complaining. This is the most I've been enthusiastic about a GM vehicle in a while.

Beyond styling, the more important question to GM is would you buy one? Could you afford to buy one? If you're not prepared to vote with your wallet, then your opinion won't really count in the eyes of GM. The "I can't wait until I can find a used one" attitude doesn't help keep GM and Pontiac in business.

[evok]

The larger question is...what Pontiac attributes should be kept? part II

[Croc]

True!

but

besides the tired, tack-on, after though split grill, it could fall right into Acura's, Nissan's or Mitsubishi's line-up.

This thing couldn't pass as a Nissan. No way. None of the proportions or design vocabulary have anything to do with Nissan. Heck, the taillamps are the closest bit, but they still don't look like something Nissan would do. Ditto with Mitsubishi...their proportions and design DNA are not really on this vehicle either. Acura I could agree with. This thing could easily fit into Acura's lineup, at least exterior-wise...until you get to the rear. Of course, this isn't necessarily a bad thing as I think Acura has some great style...but unlike Acura, G8 isn't nondescript. It has presence and a great stance. Also, this is the flagship. I'd be more concerned if this styling were for a 20k roadster or midsized sedan...but this has the attitude. Flagships need more mature, subdued styling compared to their smaller brethen. The only thing I don't like about this is that it isn't called Bonneville.

Put another way: The 1996 Aurora had great mature, subdued, yet aggressive styling. It was a sleeper. And it was gorgeous...but still aggressive. Then the 1998 Intrigue came out that looked just as nondescript and subdued...it didn't stand out. Classy? Undoubtably. But still too mature. Alero did a good job of taking the styling and being distinctive, what with the rear cluster...too bad it was overall a very unrefined package and failed to catch on. Had the Intrigue looked more like its concept predecessor (especially in the rear) it would've looked sexier and sold better IMO...or if the interior/packaging were better than the mediocre GM standard of the time (though Intrigue was the best W of that generation).

Moving onto these:

OK I'm gonna stick to the three GTOs in the foreground. The shadowed one in the background looks like a generic car to me with a hood ram.

Left front view GTO: Looks like a Camero with a Pontiac split grille. That's fine and all, but it looks like a Chevy with a Pontiac grille.

Red front 3/4 view GTO: This doesn't even look domestic. I get a distinct Infiniti/Nissan vibe off of it. Again, nothing wrong with that...just nothing says "Pontiac" to me.

Rear 3/4 view GTO: If it weren't for the badge, I'd say Dodge Charger. Typical high Chrysler beltline, bunker-style windows, blocky overall shape. Everything else is fairly nondescript...though it's definitely a domestic design.

Of all of those, the "Camero with a split grille" is the closest to what I'd associate with a Pontiac. I could easily see that as a Firebird or GTO...the thing is...that's because it looks like a Chevy with "sporty things" tacked on. I think that's a problem...Pontiac needs something that doesn't look like a Chevy...and at this point the G8 is it.

...and that doesn't look like a Mitsubishi? Edited February 10, 2007 by Croc

[ocnblu]

You seriously think that red car has an ounce of Mitsu in it? Every ounce is Pontiac. While I don't care for the taillight treatment or the concept-like hood scoops, the rest of it is sublime, imo.

[evok]

I see plenty of Nissan there.

Edited February 10, 2007 by evok

[Croc]

I don't. Other than the same overall style of taillights, I see little similar. The shapes are very different. Nissan likes to have a rear lift up, whereas the G8 (and domestics in general) prefer to keep it more level. G8 taillamps are also a lot more wraparound, something Nissan doesn't do as much. The proportions of the decklid, taillamps, license plate bracket, bumper, etc. all look "domestic" on the G8, whereas they have a more foreign look to them on the Nissan. The G8 just looks more "solid" than the Altima, and I've always tended to think domestic designs looked heavier, more purposeful. The Altima (less so than other Japanese designs, though) has exaggerated features that make the sheetmetal (at least to me) look stretched and "thinner." Like the bumper that looks "stretched"...same with the top of the decklid.

THAT SAID

Nissan (and Infiniti) is my favorite non-domestic marque for the reason that I think their proportions are very similar to domestic automakers.

If anything, the G8's rear looks almost German in its purposeful design.

Edited February 10, 2007 by Croc

[Cory Wolfe]

Beyond styling, the more important question to GM is would you buy one? Could you afford to buy one? If you're not prepared to vote with your wallet, then your opinion won't really count in the eyes of GM. The "I can't wait until I can find a used one" attitude doesn't help keep GM and Pontiac in business.

This says nothing about the importance of my opinion. If it even did, most people's opinions from online forums wouldn't matter. It won't stop me or anyone else from posting their opinion of the vehicle or opinion of other's opinions. It doesn't change the fact that people are enthusiastic about a certain vehicle. Only a small percentage of people are complaing and it's unfounded anyways.

[frogger]

For me it comes down to the fact there is no other 4 door sedan in its targer price range I would rather have. Its not perfect but others don't match the overall package. Doesn't matter to be that there is no status or performance reputation left in the Pontiac name.

Edited February 11, 2007 by frogger

[ral1960]

I don't. Other than the same overall style of taillights, I see little similar. The shapes are very different. Nissan likes to have a rear lift up, whereas the G8 (and domestics in general) prefer to keep it more level. G8 taillamps are also a lot more wraparound, something Nissan doesn't do as much. The proportions of the decklid, taillamps, license plate bracket, bumper, etc. all look "domestic" on the G8, whereas they have a more foreign look to them on the Nissan. The G8 just looks more "solid" than the Altima, and I've always tended to think domestic designs looked heavier, more purposeful.

The side view is very similar to an 06 Altima, including the raised rear. Similar greenhouse, too, but more muscularity around the wheels and a rounded front that looks great in some pictures, not so hot in the head-on at waist level. Same with the CTS, actually.

Don't know why GM has abandoned the full width taillights long characteristic of Buicks and Pontiacs. Dumb.

[JT64]

The Australian government is very happy Australia is now exporting this 100% Australian designed, engineered, and built sport sedan to the USA!

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Media...y/photoId=36677

More jobs for Australians! Keep up the awesome work! Be role models for your US counterparts!

Apparently things have been rough for Holden in Australia, and exporting has been how they have stayed alive, providing Australian job security.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...6-31037,00.html

http://www.theage.com.au/news/news/holden-...222.html?page=2

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.c...jectid=10423038

The Australian government will fund Holden and other Australian manufacturers with A$7 billion dollars (US $5.4b) to continue their global push.

Holden is also contemplating exporting the Commodore Ute to the USA!

Edited February 11, 2007 by JT64

[z28luvr01]

OK I'm gonna stick to the three GTOs in the foreground. The shadowed one in the background looks like a generic car to me with a hood ram.

Left front view GTO: Looks like a Camero with a Pontiac split grille. That's fine and all, but it looks like a Chevy with a Pontiac grille.

Red front 3/4 view GTO: This doesn't even look domestic. I get a distinct Infiniti/Nissan vibe off of it. Again, nothing wrong with that...just nothing says "Pontiac" to me.

Rear 3/4 view GTO: If it weren't for the badge, I'd say Dodge Charger. Typical high Chrysler beltline, bunker-style windows, blocky overall shape. Everything else is fairly nondescript...though it's definitely a domestic design.

Of all of those, the "Camero with a split grille" is the closest to what I'd associate with a Pontiac. I could easily see that as a Firebird or GTO...the thing is...that's because it looks like a Chevy with "sporty things" tacked on. I think that's a problem...Pontiac needs something that doesn't look like a Chevy...and at this point the G8 is it.

...and that doesn't look like a Mitsubishi?

* Kicks Croc in the shin twice *

Whoever said that you can ask 10 people what they think a Pontiac looks like and get 10 different responses is dead on. Pontiacs have filled many a niche throughout the brand's existence: boring, basic transportation, simple understated sleeper performance cars, outrageously flashy muscle cars, cushy personal luxury cars, whatever you call the 80s to now. The G8 and the Solstice represent yet another rebirth at Pontiac. The brand has been givien a clean slate because it is time to start over. The possible reason for people feeling that it doesn't capture the essence of past Pontiacs is that it is not supposed to. If it helps, judge the car on its own merits instead of how it stacks up to the Pontiacs from your favorite era. Here we have a roomy sedan with taut, sexy proportions, a simple but athletic shape, an aggressive stance, two great motors, a quality interior, and (assuming Lutz gets his way, which he will) a very competitive price. Would you want a car with those qualities being sold as a Pontiac? I sure do.

[balthazar]

Just a quickie sketch, but the brand ID is none other even tho it is thoroughly modern:

[ocnblu]

Did you draw that, balthy? That looks great. Pack your bags, son, we're goin' to DEEtroit City! Edited February 11, 2007 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

>>"judge the car on its own merits instead of how it stacks up to the Pontiacs from your favorite era. "<<

Even tho I obviously do favor vintage design from Pontiac's peak, I have not directly compared the G8 to either older pontiacs, nor Holdens- only to current non-Pontiacs and suggested there is definite Pontiac DNA that the G8 lacks.

ocnblu: nah- I didn't draw it- I'm a bit out of practice at this point. It's not my dream Pontiac, but you would never mistake it for an acura or nissan. Is that really too much to ask for??

Edited February 11, 2007 by balthazar

[Croc]

* Kicks Croc in the shin twice *

Heh...oops.

Whoever said that you can ask 10 people what they think a Pontiac looks like and get 10 different responses is dead on. Pontiacs have filled many a niche throughout the brand's existence: boring, basic transportation, simple understated sleeper performance cars, outrageously flashy muscle cars, cushy personal luxury cars, whatever you call the 80s to now. The G8 and the Solstice represent yet another rebirth at Pontiac. The brand has been givien a clean slate because it is time to start over. The possible reason for people feeling that it doesn't capture the essence of past Pontiacs is that it is not supposed to. If it helps, judge the car on its own merits instead of how it stacks up to the Pontiacs from your favorite era. Here we have a roomy sedan with taut, sexy proportions, a simple but athletic shape, an aggressive stance, two great motors, a quality interior, and (assuming Lutz gets his way, which he will) a very competitive price. Would you want a car with those qualities being sold as a Pontiac? I sure do.

Exactly. I personally find the Solstice too curvy/jellybean-shaped; I like the sky better. The only design alteration to the G8 I could co-sign would be a flaring out/rib where the horizontal crease is on the decklid by the ambers to make the flat decklid look like a bulging muscle...but even that has a 50% chance of looking too overdone...

[Northstar]

For all of the naysayers: See the damn car in person before you judge it. It's taut, stylish, aggressive, and athletic looking in person. It looks like what I would have expected the current 5er to look like when it came out. If it's so unexciting, why did it have the biggest crowds around it of ANY car? (Yes, bigger than Camaro). I absolutely love the car. I think I actually like it better than the CTS, though I'd need to see the CTS in different colors... I don't think silver (which is all they had) is the best color for it.

[evok]

Just a quickie sketch, but the brand ID is none other even tho it is thoroughly modern:

Beautiful - kudos

[z28luvr01]

One thing is for sure: people either love the G8 as a Pontiac or hate it. There does not seem to be a middle ground. When was the last Pontiac sedan that divided people the way this car has?

Polarizing designs sell (see 1st gen CTS). The G8 will be fine.

[hyperv6]

This thread will be fun to pull up 8 months after the car is on the market to see who is right and who is wrong.