MOTOR TREND X-OVER COMPARO

[regfootball]

4. Ford Edge

3. Toyota Highlander

2. Hyundai Santa Fe

1. Nissan Murano

I'll try to weigh in more on this tomorrow. The article was WEAK. It flat out said at the end of the article that none of the four stood out and won the competition. But in the interest of needing to print a finishing order, they then ordered them they way they did, in my opinion on bias.

They cited the Ford as being heavy and not having as much cargo space due to the fastback roofline. Its like they found one thing to bitch about about the Ford (weight) and played it up WAYYYY TO MUCH.

Because the Ford, despite being heavy had some of the best acceleration times and the best handling test times. It had I think the highest skidpad figure. The toyota was placed ahead of the Edge despite having unsatisfying steering etc. The Ford did not suffer functionally due to the extra weight.

Like I said, we all know the Edge is heavy and has some deficiencies. But to flat out say there is no winner, and then say 'well we need to rank em' and put the Ford last, I think smells like knee jerk import bias, because the test numbers bear out that theFord was wholly competitive. They simply could not use numbers to justify their bias, so they just flat out ignored the numbers this time. Except cargo space, where the minor reduction in cargo space was made to accomodate the stylish rear rake of the back end, which is what gives the Edge its character.

I am sure the next Highlander will equal the Edge in weight. But we'll never hear that from them.

How do GTI's and other misc German cars win comparos for being porky yet still posting good numbers? Like a 3200 pound GTI does.

Edited February 4, 2007 by regfootball

[Northstar]

I glanced over the article, and the also said the interior wasn't as good as the others. I can see the Santa Fe and Murano beating it, but the Highlander? No way; the only thing it does well is ride comfortably.

Having been in the Santa Fe a lot, I agreed with their assessment of it. The plood sucks, and there are a few quality concerns, but otherwise the interior is very nice, and it looks much more upscale than what would be suggested by the badge it wears.

[BlkHhr104]

I love how if a Ford, GM, and DCX were out for as long as the Highlander, it would be declared long-in-tooth.

[Flybrian]

These have got to be the four most unappealing vehicles out there.

[Cory Wolfe]

I love the Murano.

[BrewSwillis]

The Highlamer is not even a crossover....it's an SUV. The Santa Fe might be an SUV too?

[Bimmer325]

I saw my first Edge this morning. It's certainly no looker in person.

[Northstar]

The Highlamer is not even a crossover....it's an SUV. The Santa Fe might be an SUV too?

Both are unibody, I believe. The Highlander is on the old Camry's platform and the Santa Fe is on the Sonata's.

[Satty]

I saw my first Edge the other night and loved it. I also like the Murano a lot, but I think the Edge beats it in many categories.

[regfootball]

These have got to be the four most unappealing vehicles out there.

lots of folks are wanting in on this segment though. a tall riding crossover with cargo capacity etc. and all weather capability.

I think MT was f'ed on this one. First, they should not be comparing 3 row vehicles with 2 row vehicles. Compare the Freestyle to the Hihglander fro crissakes! But that's another deal.

My beef is, they said no competitor stood above another, and then it seemed to me if you read between the lines they pretty much just picked a finishing order based upon personal criteria and not any sort of testing objectivity. There was really nothing substantive to explain the way they picked the finish.

Edited February 4, 2007 by regfootball

[JT64]

Just face it, every single magazine/newspaper/any source has reviewed the Edge as mediocre, offering nothing special, and feeling a bit porky and Camry-esque. The interior isn't exactly the greatest thing.

And magazines just about always vote for sporty. Even Jeremy Clarkson gave the Murano thumbs up as the only big crossover he likes.

I don't know about the Highlander... I didn't like it.

[balthazar]

...in the interest of needing to print a finishing order..

What "need" ?? Who decided there is any "need" ????? The world won't end if the article finishes with 'it was too close to decide- they all have pluses & minues, it's up to the individual.' Ranking where there is no clear ranking is forcing the issue and calling personal bias's into play- who wants that??

reg :

...seemed to me if you read between the lines they pretty much just picked a finishing order based upon personal criteria and not any sort of testing objectivity. There was really nothing substantive to explain the way they picked the finish.

Egg-zactly. But to 'today's generation', the bottom line is: '#1 wins and the rest suxs!'.

How do GTI's and other misc German cars win comparos for being porky yet still posting good numbers? Like a 3200 pound GTI does.

Just saw a piece today on the mercedes/mclaren slr: tiny 5.5L V-8 coupe with a full carbon-fiber body (what's not plastic) yet it weighs about 700 lbs more than a Corvette (slr: 3800)! WTF??

[balthazar]

>>"...magazines just about always vote for sporty. "<<

>>"...the Ford, despite being heavy had some of the best acceleration times and the best handling test times. It had I think the highest skidpad figure."<<

Edited February 5, 2007 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

Obesity, like with American people, is a common problem with most all American trucks, SUVs, and crossovers... that's just the way it is here, I guess.

[Detroit-diesel]

Just saw a piece today on the mercedes/mclaren slr: tiny 5.5L V-8 coupe with a full carbon-fiber body (what's not plastic) yet it weighs about 700 lbs more than a Corvette (slr: 3800)! WTF??

The SLR was full of Paris Hilton's extra money and shoes.

[Detroit-diesel]

You don't have a link to the site so I can only guess that there wasn't a lambada in the running, wonder why

[gm4life]

I like the Murano the best, but uhh give me an Enclave CXL or Torrent GXP anyday!

[regfootball]

You don't have a link to the site so I can only guess that there wasn't a lambada in the running, wonder why

the test is in print only right now i think.

no lambdas

[Cory Wolfe]

I read it myself and this is what it says for anyone who wants to know:

So how did they finish? Truth told, no clear favorite emerged, no runaway winner. Innate, unavoidable jingoism had us all subconsciously pulling for the styling Edge, and its improved driving dynamics bolstered its case. But in the end, we couldn't forgive its inefficient packaging, excessive weight, iffy fit-and-finish, and lack of any standout surprise-and-delight features. It takes fourth. The Toyota is the hands-down winner in every Consumer Reports category, but it fails to deliver any of the style, cachet, or driving enjoyment needed to justify its purchase over a roomier, similarly priced Sienna AWD minivan, so MT awards it third place. Hyundai delivers most of what Toyota is selling for 80 cents on the dollar and throws in a killer warranty. The Santa Fe even trumps the Highlander in a few places, like soft-roading capability (with an all-wheel-drive lock system and modest underbody shielding). But build quality that doesn't quite live up to the promise of those Toyota saying J.D. Power ratings and performance figures that trailed the pack kept this Korean up-'n'-comer out of the winner's circle. And so the overpriced but gracefully aging athlete, which still delivers all the right moves, wins this contest--if only by a nose.

[balthazar]

I also see that the Edge won front, side & rear crash test ratings (was a ticker item on the news last night)- any mention of that in the article?

>>"...lack of any standout surprise-and-delight features {Edge}"<<

So where is the list of 'surprise-&-delights' for the other 3?? That the hyundai doesn't explode into pieces like the cop car at the end of the Blues Brothers?

Love how M/T goes to CR for verification of what they are too lazy or unable to investigate for themselves. Since when do magazines lean on other magazines for material?

Again- if there is no clear cut winner, forcing a ranking for no reason at all other than to feed the Pavlovian reader's expectation undermines your credibility.

[regfootball]

thanks viper for posting that. is it only me interpreting it the way I do? I mean, that whole explanation of how they ranked them was very very wishy washy.

if they are going to rank them without regard to the test data, then SAY IT IN THE ARTICLE. don't even print the test data then or say how the edge is a top safety pick in its class by the IIHS.

and this a dumb comparison, again, anyways. if you want a three row vehicle you will not be looking at an edge anyways.

this is a 'stopgap' comparison test generated to fill print. They will no doubt have another comparion test in about 6 months with the new Highlanders and pilots, the more powerful 08 freestyle, the revised pacifica, the xl7 the subaru tribeca, and the lambdas. And I can already predict the finishing order of that one

7. XL7

6. freestyle

5. pacifica

4. tribeca

3. acadia

2. highlander

1. pilot

Edited February 5, 2007 by regfootball

[Cory Wolfe]

No problem... I saw what you were saying and I think the Edge was atleast good enough to beat the Highlander.

[Chris_Doane]

I also see that the Edge won front, side & rear crash test ratings (was a ticker item on the news last night)- any mention of that in the article?

That would've been impossible since the ratings just came out and the magazine was locked in and heading to the press at least 2 weeks ago.

[MyerShift]

Baah. The Edge should have placed higher than the ancient Highlander.

But, I have to be honest with you all.

I hate these vehicles, period.

Either give me a real wagon, a minivan, a car, or a trucky (real) SUV. Not some lame all things to all people that can't really do anything one thing well as another one of these vechicle types could. They are multitaskers, and multitasking never gets anything done as well as doing one thing at a time in a dedicated manner.

[The O.C.]

The Highlamer is not even a crossover....it's an SUV. The Santa Fe might be an SUV too?

Uh.....Highlander AND Santa Fe are built off uni-body (re....car-based) architectures.....

How are they NOT crossovers?

[regfootball]

new highlander pics are out. its puffy looking. the dash looks ok, but otherwise it still looks femmy and non-domestic. Its like a bloated RAV4.

[BrewSwillis]

Uh.....Highlander AND Santa Fe are built off uni-body (re....car-based) architectures.....

How are they NOT crossovers?

I guess I don't consider all "car-based SUV's" crossovers.....but maybe they are. When I think of "crossover" I think of Pacifia's, Lexus RX330's, Cadillac SRX's, Nissan Muranos, Ford Edge's, etc. These vehicles don't really look like SUVs.

I think ground clearance and off-roadability make certain "car-based SUV's" more than a crossover.

Edited February 9, 2007 by BrewSwillis

[JT64]

I think ground clearance and off-roadability make certain "car-based SUV's" more than a crossover.

You just broke your own personal classification scheme.

Ground Clearance

Jeep Liberty 6.4" (integrated body/frame)

HIGHLANDER 6.9" (crossover) <==========

Murano 7.0" (crossover) <==============

GMC Yukon 7.1"

RX350 7.1" (crossover) <==============

BMW X5 7.1" (crossover)

Land Rover LR3 7.3" (crossover)

Acura MDX 7.3" (integrated body/frame)

GMC Acadia 7.4" (crossover)

Trailblazer 7.8"

Torrent 7.9" (crossover)

CX-9 8.0" (crossover)

Grand Cherokee 8.0"

Ford Escape 8.0" (crossover)

Edge 8.0" (crossover) <==============

SANTA FE 8.1" (crossover) <===========

CX-7 8.1" (crossover)

Explorer 8.2"

Cadillac SRX 8.2" (crossover) <========

Subaru Outback 8.7" (crossover)

Toyota Sequoia 10.6"

Infiniti QX56 10.8"

HUMMER H1 16.0"

Noooooo! The world is upside down! ... I just like making fun of people. j/k. :AH-HA_wink:

Edited February 11, 2007 by JT64

[Northstar]

After sitting in the Edge yesterday, I see why it got last. The interior is complete crap. The only part I felt was high quality were the seats, which were quite comfy. It also had good second row room, but the dash and door panels were crap.

[regfootball]

After sitting in the Edge yesterday, I see why it got last. The interior is complete crap. The only part I felt was high quality were the seats, which were quite comfy. It also had good second row room, but the dash and door panels were crap.

it's not top notch, but in no way is it complete crap. Its just simply underwhelming. the design of the door panels is more deficient than the materials quality. And then, if you call the Edge crap, the Torrent and Equinox interiors must go way beyond crap. The Edge's interior is still much better than the Equinox.

Edited February 11, 2007 by regfootball

[K.C.]

I read this comparo recently, and I thought it was a mismatched comparo. I thought for it to be fair that all four models should either be 3-row OR 2-row, not a mix and match. Of the four they did compare, I would have chosen the Murano as well. I think its the edgiest (sorry Ford). I havent driven the Edge or Santa Fe yet (wouldnt be caught dead driving a Santa Fe), but the Highlander is boring (the new one is nasty looking), and the Murano is actually fun to drive and is very innovative interior. I also really liked the Xtronic CVT as well. If GM didn't exist, I would be buying Nissans and Infinitis. I'm not biased against them. I just think they do the best job of designed cars for the North American market, and utilizing other markets in bringing relevant products to North America.

[JT64]

I read this comparo recently, and I thought it was a mismatched comparo. I thought for it to be fair that all four models should either be 3-row OR 2-row, not a mix and match.

3-row capable models are the only models Toyota offers. Toyota's small, mid, and large crossover/SUVs are all 3-row capable. So it's the only way to compare with a Toyota.

Plus, it's not as if the Toyota is a bigger car. In fact, the Edge is longer (185.7") than the 3-row Toyota (184.6"), and wider too.

The Highlander's 3rd row are just 30.2" legroom baby jump seats, not full sized 3rd rows. (The Rav4 is actually bigger than this outgoing Highlander.)

Edited February 12, 2007 by JT64

[JT64]

I saw a Cream Brule Edge and a Super Black Murano parked next to each other today.

The rear end of the Edge is quite attractive. Nice tail lights.

Can't beat the Murano's bling bling front end though.

But both of them have cheap looking and feeling interiors. The Murano is one of the last Nissans that needs an interior makeover.

Edited February 12, 2007 by JT64

[Northstar]

it's not top notch, but in no way is it complete crap. Its just simply underwhelming. the design of the door panels is more deficient than the materials quality. And then, if you call the Edge crap, the Torrent and Equinox interiors must go way beyond crap. The Edge's interior is still much better than the Equinox.

The Edge would be acceptable if it was $20k-30k like the Thetas, but it is not. Does it feel relatively solid? Yes. However, there is not a single piece in the interior that feels like it should be in a vehicle that has a price tag of any more than $25k. The Equinox I sat in at least had soft-touch material on the door panels, something that cannot be said about the Edge. My dad thought the Edge was pretty bad too. The "metal" trim on the center stack is laughably cheap.

Again, the only good thing about the Edge's interior are the seats.

[BrewSwillis]

You just broke your own personal classification scheme.

Ground Clearance

Jeep Liberty 6.4" (integrated body/frame)

HIGHLANDER 6.9" (crossover) <==========

Murano 7.0" (crossover) <==============

GMC Yukon 7.1"

RX350 7.1" (crossover) <==============

BMW X5 7.1" (crossover)

Land Rover LR3 7.3" (crossover)

Acura MDX 7.3" (integrated body/frame)

GMC Acadia 7.4" (crossover)

Trailblazer 7.8"

Torrent 7.9" (crossover)

CX-9 8.0" (crossover)

Grand Cherokee 8.0"

Ford Escape 8.0" (crossover)

Edge 8.0" (crossover) <==============

SANTA FE 8.1" (crossover) <===========

CX-7 8.1" (crossover)

Explorer 8.2"

Cadillac SRX 8.2" (crossover) <========

Subaru Outback 8.7" (crossover)

Toyota Sequoia 10.6"

Infiniti QX56 10.8"

HUMMER H1 16.0"

Noooooo! The world is upside down! ... I just like making fun of people. j/k. :AH-HA_wink:

Wow, you really went through alot of trouble to disprove something that I just stated as an opinion, and even admitted that I may be wrong. I also said "off-roadibility" too. How many people are gonna take an SRX or Edge off road? I just think "corssover" has become too big of a catagory lately, and they can't all be compared on the same level.

Here's an excerpt from Wikipedia that seems to agree with my confusion as to what is really a "crossover":

The CUV nomenclature was created by automotive marketing departments to move away from the station wagon, which has declined in popularity, and the SUV, which has been stigmatized in American culture as environmentally-unfriendly, oversized, and wasteful with fuel. The word "CUV" or "Crossover" is not a ubiquituous term and is primarily used by people in the automotive industry.

The nomenclature's unpopularity may be due to the fact that some CUVs are compact- to mid-sized SUVs built with car drivetrains and suspensions (Lexus RX330, BMW X3). While most CUVs are actually station wagons or 5-door hatchbacks with truck-like characteristics such as elevated suspensions and upright seating (Volvo XC90, Mazda CX-7, Dodge Caliber).

In some cases, marketing departments may sometimes blur the line between vehicle body types. Ford USA positions the Freestyle and the Edge as CUVs. Though these vehicles are actually station wagons where one resembles a compact-SUV and the other resembles a 5-door hatchback, respectively.

[Flybrian]

I can make Wikipedia say whatever I want it to say.

[BrewSwillis]

I can make Wikipedia say whatever I want it to say.

[The O.C.]

What "need" ?? Who decided there is any "need" ????? The world won't end if the article finishes with 'it was too close to decide- they all have pluses & minues, it's up to the individual.' Ranking where there is no clear ranking is forcing the issue and calling personal bias's into play- who wants that??

reg :

Egg-zactly. But to 'today's generation', the bottom line is: '#1 wins and the rest suxs!'.

Just saw a piece today on the mercedes/mclaren slr: tiny 5.5L V-8 coupe with a full carbon-fiber body (what's not plastic) yet it weighs about 700 lbs more than a Corvette (slr: 3800)! WTF??

First of all.....two things.....

The buff mags are there for entertainment. Their opinions are their opinions. I for one, read the buff mags to SEE what those guys say about the cars. If you want simply factual data and performance numbers, you can pull any and all of that stuff from mfgr's websites.....

Secondly, the SLR is hardly "tiny"......

[The O.C.]

I guess I don't consider all "car-based SUV's" crossovers.....but maybe they are. When I think of "crossover" I think of Pacifia's, Lexus RX330's, Cadillac SRX's, Nissan Muranos, Ford Edge's, etc. These vehicles don't really look like SUVs.

I think ground clearance and off-roadability make certain "car-based SUV's" more than a crossover.

From a personal standpoint, I'm more inclined to agree with YOU.......

But basically the industry-standard now is to refer to a unibody "SUV" as a "crossover."

[JT64]

But basically the industry-standard now is to refer to a unibody "SUV" as a "crossover."

So what do you call Jeeps and Hondas, which are all integrated body/frame?

Especially with people's prejudice against the Ridgeline.

Honda and Jeep both use the same build, both claiming an integrated unibody is more rigid than the old school body on frame.

But people would rather call the Jeeps "SUVs" and the Hondas "Crossovers".

Edited February 13, 2007 by JT64

[A Horse With No Name]

4. Ford Edge

3. Toyota Highlander

2. Hyundai Santa Fe

1. Nissan Murano

I'll try to weigh in more on this tomorrow. The article was WEAK. It flat out said at the end of the article that none of the four stood out and won the competition. But in the interest of needing to print a finishing order, they then ordered them they way they did, in my opinion on bias.

They cited the Ford as being heavy and not having as much cargo space due to the fastback roofline. Its like they found one thing to bitch about about the Ford (weight) and played it up WAYYYY TO MUCH.

Because the Ford, despite being heavy had some of the best acceleration times and the best handling test times. It had I think the highest skidpad figure. The toyota was placed ahead of the Edge despite having unsatisfying steering etc. The Ford did not suffer functionally due to the extra weight.

Like I said, we all know the Edge is heavy and has some deficiencies. But to flat out say there is no winner, and then say 'well we need to rank em' and put the Ford last, I think smells like knee jerk import bias, because the test numbers bear out that theFord was wholly competitive. They simply could not use numbers to justify their bias, so they just flat out ignored the numbers this time. Except cargo space, where the minor reduction in cargo space was made to accomodate the stylish rear rake of the back end, which is what gives the Edge its character.

I am sure the next Highlander will equal the Edge in weight. But we'll never hear that from them.

How do GTI's and other misc German cars win comparos for being porky yet still posting good numbers? Like a 3200 pound GTI does.

None of the four SUV's mentioned will ever have a home in my garage. I do think Im port Bias exists but I am very unimpressed with the edge. The styling is horrible and the wieght thing IS a serious issue.

BTW, I have read reviews that have blasted the GTI for being heavy.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

No problem... I saw what you were saying and I think the Edge was atleast good enough to beat the Highlander.

Let's not give credit where credit is not due. I am not trying to be mean but exactly how is the edge better than the Highlander in any real way?

BTW, I am trying to ask a serious question...I just don't see it at all.

Chris

[A Horse With No Name]

I saw a Cream Brule Edge and a Super Black Murano parked next to each other today.

The rear end of the Edge is quite attractive. Nice tail lights.

Can't beat the Murano's bling bling front end though.

But both of them have cheap looking and feeling interiors. The Murano is one of the last Nissans that needs an interior makeover.

You are right about the rear of the Edge, but the front is hideous. Also, I don't like the Murano Interior either.

Of the two the Murano is the much easier fix.

Chris

[regfootball]

The Edge would be acceptable if it was $20k-30k like the Thetas, but it is not. Does it feel relatively solid? Yes. However, there is not a single piece in the interior that feels like it should be in a vehicle that has a price tag of any more than $25k. The Equinox I sat in at least had soft-touch material on the door panels, something that cannot be said about the Edge. My dad thought the Edge was pretty bad too. The "metal" trim on the center stack is laughably cheap.

Again, the only good thing about the Edge's interior are the seats.

where some parts of the edge interior are mediocre, you'd be absolutely insane to want to sit in and drive a miserable equinox in comparison. the eq is narrower, has worse plastic, worse seats, less power. I don't think you even get a full console in an EQ. the eq's interior is not that far above a chevy citation in materials quality. scratch that. its barely a step above a Nitro or similar DCX product. And yes, I've been in an 07 torrent and the interior plastics are still terrible. It looks like spray painted recycled pop bottles.

most edge i seen on dealer lots so far is below 30k BTW

Edited February 13, 2007 by regfootball

[The O.C.]

So what do you call Jeeps and Hondas, which are all integrated body/frame?

Especially with people's prejudice against the Ridgeline.

Honda and Jeep both use the same build, both claiming an integrated unibody is more rigid than the old school body on frame.

But people would rather call the Jeeps "SUVs" and the Hondas "Crossovers".

There's always going to be some grey area....

Is an Impala a "midsize" or a "fullsize" sedan?

You'll get two different answers on that depending on who you ask.