FUTURE_OF_GM

[cavigirl]

This is actually FUTURE_OF_GM posting on my GFs screen name.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have decided to step down from the administration here at C&G, yet for some strange reason I am not allowed to post in the Lounge area of the site either (I'm not sure why)

It's been a fun ride and I would like to pledge my respect and thanks to Walt for all he has done for us over the past 6 years Unfortunately the site just isn't going where I think it should be and I have a hard time supporting leadership with some of the unjust decisions certain administrators have made in the past year or so. Communication has been virtually nonexistent and I haven't felt "part of the team" for quite a while now.

So, I guess I hope to be missed by some, but I'm sure it'll be 'good riddance' for many of you and I can understand that. But I will still lurk here and make the occasinal post as long as I'm not banned entirely (Which is a possibility, since some people are apparently sore about why I'm leaving---I seem to have joined the enemy.) Feel free to check my myspace page (/futureofgm) for where you can find me and if that suspiciously gets edited out, just remember my screen name.

Later.

Edited February 4, 2007 by cavigirl

[FAPTurbo]

The Lewis Black of Cheers and Gears is leaving!?

WTF?!

I always loved reading your posts dude...

[regfootball]

well, is this good or bad as far as actually getting people to post on this site again? LOL traffic is wayyyyyy down from what i can tell.

[balthazar]

Tho at times your posts were a bit over the top, it was clear it was passion that drove them there, and no one should condemn that.

I also enjoyed reading your posts- good luck and do indeed lurk & post here in the future. Peace, brother.

[Sixty8panther]

Dude... why...???

That sucks, please don't be a stranger to the site, your differences aside you

are (and I hope always will be) a valuable addition to this forum. All the best

in whatever/where ever your next endeavor takes you. Don't ever give up

the fight for the truth & justice in the Automotive Industry.

P.S. We're giving serious thought on crossing through Michigan on our Tulsa,

OK roadtrip this upcoming June 14th or 17th, what are the chances we can

meet up with you somewhere that weekend?

[bobo]

FOG, I'm sorry things didn't work out. You have strong viewpoints, and not necessarily to everybody's liking, but you've always been pure, unvarnished FOG. Hope you decide not to take off for good.

[Northstar]

This is actually FUTURE_OF_GM posting on my GFs screen name.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have decided to step down from the administration here at C&G, yet for some strange reason I am not allowed to post in the Lounge area of the site either (I'm not sure why)

It's been a fun ride and I would like to pledge my respect and thanks to Walt for all he has done for us over the past 6 years Unfortunately the site just isn't going where I think it should be and I have a hard time supporting leadership with some of the unjust decisions certain administrators have made in the past year or so. Communication has been virtually nonexistent and I haven't felt "part of the team" for quite a while now.

So, I guess I hope to be missed by some, but I'm sure it'll be 'good riddance' for many of you and I can understand that. But I will still lurk here and make the occasinal post as long as I'm not banned entirely (Which is a possibility, since some people are apparently sore about why I'm leaving---I seem to have joined the enemy.) Feel free to check my myspace page (/futureofgm) for where you can find me and if that suspiciously gets edited out, just remember my screen name.

Later.

I think I need to make a few things clear:

First, FOG is still allowed and welcome to contribute to the site. In no way has he been removed of his posting abilities, and I'm sure the reason he cannot currently post in the lounge is some sort of hiccup that can be fixed.

Second, I'd like to respond to some of the comments made.

In past month, the administration has posted in 19 topics in the Admin/Moderator forum. I think that makes it quite clear that there is communication between the staff, and the only reason communication wouldn't be made would be if someone chose not to post their thoughts in those topics. Everyone's thoughts are taken seriously by the other members of the staff, and the only reason to not feel like part of the team is if one is simply not posting in the Mod forum. I think 2 topics every 3 days on average is anything but non-existent communication, especially considering that things are generally pretty smooth around here.

Any "unjust" decisions that were made were not done so because one admin or another decided they should be made. The only times such decisions would have been made is when a new member posts something such as a huge advertisement and it is quite clear that they are here to sell stuff totally unrelated to cars. Every other decision that is made is discussed and everyone is able to give their opinion regarding the subject. If poor decisions are being made, it is not because one person is making them all by themselves.

Finally, none of us were sore about why FOG is leaving. If he wants to "join the enemy," because he likes it there better, than he is free to do so. What we did not like was that we discovered he was not at the site to contribute with his posts, but rather to do the opposite, to take away from the discussion. Please see THIS post if you would like to see FOG's comments.

I have no hard feelings toward FOG, and I wish him the best. I just thought I should clarify and defend the staff that I am part of before there is a huge fireworks show.

[Cory Wolfe]

Finally, none of us were sore about why FOG is leaving. If he wants to "join the enemy," because he likes it there better, than he is free to do so. What we did not like was that we discovered he was not at the site to contribute with his posts, but rather to do the opposite, to take away from the discussion. Please see THIS post if you would like to see FOG's comments.

That says alot to me.

Well, FOG, I hold nothing against you. I just don't see you as an asset to C&G anymore, so I can't say that I'll miss you. In the early days, you're posts were great reads. As time went on, however they became more and more like mindless media-conspiracy banter. And now that I see your true motive, all I have to say is good riddance. Those "analysts and government employees" are much more valuable to C&G than anything you've contributed.

[Turbojett]

i had just noticed that his posting frequency had decreased rather sharply, and when he did post it usually started an argument.

Sorry to hear that you're leaving, FOG. I always hate to see these posts, no matter who it is. I don't think I have or ever said "good riddance" to anybody, except maye the occasional troll.

[ocnblu]

I'm not happy to see you go. It's clear from your posts that you're a passionate guy doing what you feel is right. The goal, I believe, is to enjoy yourself while on the internet. If you can't do that, then why turn on the computer? So, if you find more enjoyment elsewhere, that's a decision you have to make. I'll still read your posts here when you stop by. Above all, have fun and get the word out.

[Paolino]

FOG, I understand if you want to drop out of Admin, but don't leave entirely. I love your passion in your posts... it's just great. Yeah, sometimes they're over the top, but I understand where it's coming from, and that type of passion is needed on a GM-Enthusiast site.

[Camino LS6]

I don't want to see you leave the site,FOG!

Not at all.

[Flybrian]

To clairify things, FOG, you are not banned nor restricted in any way. I don't know why you weren't able to post in the Lounge under your own screenname this morning, but its been fixed now.

Rest assured, no one is overjoyed about your resignation and the tact and grace in which you're resigning says alot. You still have a great deal of respect among lots of members here and none of that will be lost just because you're a member now. As you said yourself, you haven't felt like part of the team for awhile now and I regret that you feel that way. And if you don't feel comfortable supporting the administration, then that is your choice and I think this is a natural conclusion given you feel that way.

Things happen and people split sometimes, but its no reason to be a stranger. Still hope to see you around these parts.

[Intrepidation]

It's ashame to see you go, but don't stop posting here. Yeah, some of your posts were a bit over the top (but also entertaining), but anyone not blind can see that you're just passionate about what you believe in.

[Z-06]

FOG for Christ sake, I wanna see that clown face and the Passion for GM in every post I read. Do not take the extreme. We are all here for better GM. Please do not let the tiny misunderstandings between you and other people stop from our Goal of Getting GM to be the BEST again. Edited February 4, 2007 by smallchevy

[Guest YellowJacket894]

I don't want to see you leave the site,FOG!

Not at all.

Stick around, FOG. Post a bit. I never had a problem with your posts or their content.

[cavigirl]

FUTURE_OF_GM again,

One thing I've always prided myself in is being honest at all costs.

It's no secret to anyone that I'm not a huge fan of certain insiders on this site. I think it is ridiculous that people who, in general, contribute very little new information can come on here and address the volunteers and members who make this site what it is in the manner that they do.

The constant arrogance and basically "Shut up, you don't have an opinion because you don't know what you're talking about" and the constant anti-GM posts by the same people make me very angry. OF COURSE we're not going to know as much as these people, we're not the INSIDERS and I think it shows very little professionalism to literally 'talk $h!' about GM on a GM fan site just because you want to impress your collegues and just because it's the trendy thing to do.

So, with that in mind, my comments were of the utmost honesty. Do I troll the insiders? ABSOLUTELY Surely the people here at Cheers and Gears didn't think all that stuff I posted was serious. Surely you all recognized that my main objective in many of those posts was to be a pain in the ass and try to get the insdiers to makes idiots of themselves, and further erode their credibility.

So, do I troll at Cheers and Gears? You betcha.... Are all of my posts "troll posts" absolutely not.

Edited February 4, 2007 by cavigirl

[Satty]

Wow, the original mod ranks have really thinned out. First Croc and I resigned, then Josh and now FOG, not even mentioning the guys who were mods at the very start and haven't been seen in years. Guess what, the world continues to turn. C&G is still here, as long as we've got Fly and a solid core, I dont see that changing.

[Cadillacfan]

While I respect your decision to leave, did it really require you posting this whole drawn-out thread for everyone to see? Just tell everyone you're leaving for personal reasons and not make a huge deal over it. It's disrespectful to your former peers and people on the site.

[Robert Hall]

While I respect your decision to leave, did it really require you posting this whole drawn-out thread for everyone to see? Just tell everyone you're leaving for personal reasons and not make a huge deal over it. It's disrespectful to your former peers and people on the site.

He gets more drama this way, though..

[Camino LS6]

Let's not go there, ok folks?

[NOS2006]

First, FOG, I'd like to bid a friend a good future. You've always been an asset to the site and you've been here longer than I have. I have nothing against you, though I don't see eye-to-eye with you on some of the points you've made here in this thread.

I'm not sure what you've seen change in C&G. I'm not sure how many of you have noticed, but my posts are definitely not as frequent anymore. However, everytime I come back online, usually just to check the news, I never feel like I've missed a beat. C&G is doing a fine job, IMHO, of diversifying itself among its members and making the entire experience worthwhile. One thing that I find about C&G that's a huge plus to the site compared to others is that it's got a great core family. But, what would that family be without an instigator or two? That's another thing that keeps the site in touch. We've got members here that constantly tell of how little GM shines in comparison to other manufacturers. I'm not sure about any of you, but I feel that's what keeps everything more humble here. Our members are usually able to agree with some points that the "anti-GM members" make, and argue/discuss about the points that aren't agreed upon. It's usually all in good taste and nobody's out to get the other. As a community, that's exactly how we should function. Without people who aren't as fond of GM as many of us here, there's a good possibility that this would become some kind of communistic "if you don't like GM, you may not be a member of our site" type of place. Competition is what makes every and any market grow, especially the auto industry. So, why not welcome competitive views onto our site? That's how I feel at least.

Anyway, good luck in the future, and be sure to keep in touch.

[regfootball]

all this type of stuff (frequent admin dissension) makes me wonder if this is why posting is way down around here. Some weekends it seems no topics get added or replied to or anything. Like 18 months ago it seemed to me anyways this place got lots more hits traffic and posts and most of all lots more GM news. GMI beats this place to the punch on 90% of the stories out there it seems, nowadays. Correct me if I am wrong. GMI is not a peach by any stretch, I'm not terribly fond of that site.

Oh well, we can all chuckle. Does the gmsource.com still suck? Not that anyone checks that site.

Edited February 4, 2007 by regfootball

[NOS2006]

Oh well, we can all chuckle. Does the gmsource.com still suck? Not that anyone checks that site.

I can't say that site "sucks," but judging by their amount of posts and threads, I can't say it's a great site yet...

[Flybrian]

all this type of stuff (frequent admin dissension) makes me wonder if this is why posting is way down around here. Some weekends it seems no topics get added or replied to or anything. Like 18 months ago it seemed to me anyways this place got lots more hits traffic and posts and most of all lots more GM news. GMI beats this place to the punch on 90% of the stories out there it seems, nowadays. Correct me if I am wrong. GMI is not a peach by any stretch, I'm not terribly fond of that site.

Oh well, we can all chuckle. Does the gmsource.com still suck? Not that anyone checks that site.

You don't see any 'What Won't Reg hit?' threads elsewhere, do you? That's what we call exclusive content. :AH-HA_wink:

[Camino LS6]

all this type of stuff (frequent admin dissension) makes me wonder if this is why posting is way down around here. Some weekends it seems no topics get added or replied to or anything. Like 18 months ago it seemed to me anyways this place got lots more hits traffic and posts and most of all lots more GM news. GMI beats this place to the punch on 90% of the stories out there it seems, nowadays. Correct me if I am wrong. GMI is not a peach by any stretch, I'm not terribly fond of that site.

Oh well, we can all chuckle. Does the gmsource.com still suck? Not that anyone checks that site.

Actually Reg, there really isn't any dissension among the staff and hasn't been for a long time. FOG's feelings were unknown to us until now. As far as traffic goes, ever been in a room full of people and the conversation just stops? I'd say it's something like that. Our membership has been increasing steadily and new features are being added often. I'd say that our biggest problem has been trouble with our hosting service (a most unhelpful group they are) and the limited time each of us has in a given day. C&G is not a business like GMI, we do what we do as volunteers.

[regfootball]

You don't see any 'What Won't Reg hit?' threads elsewhere, do you? That's what we call exclusive content. :AH-HA_wink:

you ARE right on that one.

[regfootball]

Actually Reg, there really isn't any dissension among the staff and hasn't been for a long time. FOG's feelings were unknown to us until now. As far as traffic goes, ever been in a room full of people and the conversation just stops? I'd say it's something like that. Our membership has been increasing steadily and new features are being added often. I'd say that our biggest problem has been trouble with our hosting service (a most unhelpful group they are) and the limited time each of us has in a given day. C&G is not a business like GMI, we do what we do as volunteers.

were 98 reg., joshie, harley, weren't they all admin at one time? didn't they leave? I'm not totally up on this stuff. I just read topics about hitting chicks and hot cars mostly.

[Satty]

I wont go into 98, but lets say its all for the best. Harly was never a mod/admin. Josh has a history of leaving websites because the rest of the staff doesn't agree with him. It'll happen with GMS (which does suck, btw) eventually just like it happened at GMI and C&G.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Satty

[Flybrian]

were 98 reg., joshie, harley, weren't they all admin at one time? didn't they leave? I'm not totally up on this stuff. I just read topics about hitting chicks and hot cars mostly.

Quick history of C&G - (Wikipedia entry, anyone?)

-Pontiac20 disappeared (this is waaaay back in the day)

-Baron87 disappeared (again, back in the day)

-Satty/Croc resigned

-Ninety_Eight_Regency resigned

-Josh resigned

But also in that time -

-GMTruckGuy was modded

-Venseattle was modded

-CSpec was modded

-Bimmer325 became an Asst. Editor

-Variance became a Reporter

Harleyearl was never part of the administration.

[Satty]

Speaking of 98 as a mod, I just found the adsd thread from the mod forum. Turns out that whole thing started exactly two years ago tomorrow. Croc's post (the first one in the thread) was Feb 5, 2005. I got to play the part of Fly. The good 'ol days?

[Croc]

Those bullet points aren't all in exact order but they generally paint the picture.

Modding can be a lot of fun, but it is also a huge pain in the ass. I never had problems with any of the current modding staff, and I think they are some of the most excellect, capable mods out there. I think the fact that this site is so damned awesome is testament to it all.

I wish FOG the best of luck wherever, and hope that he's happy with whatever he does.

To reiterate what Satty said upthread...a lot of people have stepped up or down over the years and the site keeps on keeping on. The reasons differ immensely for each mod who has stepped down, but one thing has always been the same: they cared about the site, they perceived a rift, difference in vision/direction/whatever, and because they still cared about the site they decided to step down and avoid a lot of drama in the interests of the site and its members.

The reason I'm posting this is because as someone who has worked on this team waaaaaaaay back up until April/May 2005, there is not a "bad guy" on the team. FOG is a great guy and so are all the other mods. NO ONE should think less of anyone right now because of this. Love him or hate him, FOG has been a strong character on this site and generally a pretty good mod. Modding sucks. You have to get on people and stuff. But it creates a better environment and keeps things going smoothely. It's the most thankless job too--very rarely will you get a PM saying "wow great job you handled ___ really well!" But every day you will get one "OMG YOU ARE TEH DOUCHE!!!!111" because someone doesn't like one part of one decision you made.

So yea, appreciate the mods. They do so much work around here, and make this site as awesome as it is. It's sad to see FOG go (I hope he reconsiders), and I'd love to get a PM from him talking about all this (hint hint) not in public. But at the same time, the site is in more than capable hands.

Cheers, everyone! (and Gears)

[Croc]

Speaking of 98 as a mod, I just found the adsd thread from the mod forum. Turns out that whole thing started exactly two years ago tomorrow. Croc's post (the first one in the thread) was Feb 5, 2005. I got to play the part of Fly. The good 'ol days?

PM me your screen name...it's time to reminisce. I too still have that thread in all its glory saved on my comp. It's a gem I'm never letting go haha

[CSpec]

What happened to Baron anyway? Croc, I think one time you said he went to an "east coast school" or something... do you remember which one?

[NOS2006]

There were other mods that aren't mods now, too. I know there was chris.. and who else?

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

The reason I posted the thread wasn't to get attention or drama. It was 2 fold: 1) I wanted to defend my name. Because I was locked out of the lounge I had no idea what was being said about me and I wanted to get the jump on things and give you guys my take on the situation from the source. Not to mention, I wasn't sure how limited my membership would be. and 2) For closure... Plain and simple. I was one of the original members of this site and I've been here most every day for around 6 years now. Believe it or not, it does affect me to leave. A lot of me has went into this site and a lot of my soul has been beared here fighting for what I believe in.

But if you think it's for attention/drama, that's fine too... I respect all opinions, even if I don't like them.

I reiterate that I probably will not leave the site entirely and will occasionally post, in fact I think this set up is probably going to be better for me because I don't feel like i HAVE to come to the site all the time and I don't feel like I HAVE to defend GM at all costs. (You know, like the respect of others here and my friendship with people)

[Camino LS6]

Cool!

I'm glad that you are feeling positive about it all.

It just wouldn't be the same without your ..um... strong opinions around here.

[daves87rs]

Cool!

I'm glad that you are feeling positive about it all.

It just wouldn't be the same without your ..um... strong opinions around here.

What Camino said. Couldn't have better myself.

Of course, we'll still have fights around here.

But it is hard to stay mad at friends. (you guys)

Even BV. :AH-HA_wink:

[regfootball]

Quick history of C&G - (Wikipedia entry, anyone?)

-Pontiac20 disappeared (this is waaaay back in the day)

-Baron87 disappeared (again, back in the day)

-Satty/Croc resigned

-Ninety_Eight_Regency resigned

-Josh resigned

But also in that time -

-GMTruckGuy was modded

-Venseattle was modded

-CSpec was modded

-Bimmer325 became an Asst. Editor

-Variance became a Reporter

Harleyearl was never part of the administration.

imagine if harry was made a mod.

[FAPTurbo]

imagine if harry was made a mod.

Wouldn't that be like making Senator Foley the U.S. Secretary of Education?

Edited February 5, 2007 by Captainbooyah

[Enzora]

Wow . . . never would've pegged FOG as a psyc major.

[Cory Wolfe]

FUTURE_OF_GM again,

One thing I've always prided myself in is being honest at all costs.

It's no secret to anyone that I'm not a huge fan of certain insiders on this site. I think it is ridiculous that people who, in general, contribute very little new information can come on here and address the volunteers and members who make this site what it is in the manner that they do.

The constant arrogance and basically "Shut up, you don't have an opinion because you don't know what you're talking about" and the constant anti-GM posts by the same people make me very angry. OF COURSE we're not going to know as much as these people, we're not the INSIDERS and I think it shows very little professionalism to literally 'talk $h!' about GM on a GM fan site just because you want to impress your collegues and just because it's the trendy thing to do.

So, with that in mind, my comments were of the utmost honesty. Do I troll the insiders? ABSOLUTELY Surely the people here at Cheers and Gears didn't think all that stuff I posted was serious. Surely you all recognized that my main objective in many of those posts was to be a pain in the ass and try to get the insdiers to makes idiots of themselves, and further erode their credibility.

So, do I troll at Cheers and Gears? You betcha.... Are all of my posts "troll posts" absolutely not.

I simply don't agree with that. I don't care if you're a passionate GM enthusiast or a passionate GM hater... Intentionally trolling the forums for your own personal vendettas is absolutely ridiculous. If that's your intention, I stand by what I said. Just because you have a problem with what certain insiders say doesn't mean trolling them will help the situation. And whether you agree or not, they are an asset to C&G as they do have information others don't. The only one making a fool out of himself was the one trolling.

With that said, if you stop with the trolling, I'll have no problem... and will actually encourage you sticking around. As I said, it's nothing personal.

While I respect your decision to leave, did it really require you posting this whole drawn-out thread for everyone to see? Just tell everyone you're leaving for personal reasons and not make a huge deal over it. It's disrespectful to your former peers and people on the site.

Agreed.

Those bullet points aren't all in exact order but they generally paint the picture.

Modding can be a lot of fun, but it is also a huge pain in the ass. I never had problems with any of the current modding staff, and I think they are some of the most excellect, capable mods out there. I think the fact that this site is so damned awesome is testament to it all.

I wish FOG the best of luck wherever, and hope that he's happy with whatever he does.

To reiterate what Satty said upthread...a lot of people have stepped up or down over the years and the site keeps on keeping on. The reasons differ immensely for each mod who has stepped down, but one thing has always been the same: they cared about the site, they perceived a rift, difference in vision/direction/whatever, and because they still cared about the site they decided to step down and avoid a lot of drama in the interests of the site and its members.

The reason I'm posting this is because as someone who has worked on this team waaaaaaaay back up until April/May 2005, there is not a "bad guy" on the team. FOG is a great guy and so are all the other mods. NO ONE should think less of anyone right now because of this. Love him or hate him, FOG has been a strong character on this site and generally a pretty good mod. Modding sucks. You have to get on people and stuff. But it creates a better environment and keeps things going smoothely. It's the most thankless job too--very rarely will you get a PM saying "wow great job you handled ___ really well!" But every day you will get one "OMG YOU ARE TEH DOUCHE!!!!111" because someone doesn't like one part of one decision you made.

So yea, appreciate the mods. They do so much work around here, and make this site as awesome as it is. It's sad to see FOG go (I hope he reconsiders), and I'd love to get a PM from him talking about all this (hint hint) not in public. But at the same time, the site is in more than capable hands.

Cheers, everyone! (and Gears)

Guys, don't get me wrong... I under stand all of that, respect FOG, his modding, and have nothing personal against him. However, reading that he intentionally trolls the forums...? It's unacceptable no matter what your ranking or what your interests are. I think he is a great guy who's very passionate about GM, but I'm not going to ignore what he's done just because of that. I just don't put up with stuff like that. Doing that certainly isn't helping C&G. As I said, it is unacceptable and there are no exceptions for it. I'd say the same thing to anyone else who does... and have in the past. That, alone, was the reason for the tone of my post.

[Satty]

Know which former mod I miss the most? Its actually one I forgot about, Budman, he modded the Saab forum for a while. Cool guy from what I remember.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I still occasionally wonder about Budman. He really had a tough run of luck there right before he left.

He was a great guy and I hope everything worked out alright.

[Flybrian]

I still occasionally wonder about Budman. He really had a tough run of luck there right before he left.

He was a great guy and I hope everything worked out alright.

That was very, very heartbreaking what happened then. I hope he's okay, too.

For those that don't remember, Budman was very enthusiastic about SAABs as well.

[Intrepidation]

What happened to this Budman person? I must have joined after he left.

[Croc]

Hey Fly, I only vaguely remember what happened...could you refresh the old memory via PM?

[daves87rs]

I always wondered what happened to him too...

[FAPTurbo]

At least FOG will still be posting. The rants are always fun to read!

And what's the big deal? So he joined the GMSource and said who he was and that he's a Metallica fan. I only see one problem in that...

... and that he's a Metallica fan.

The Crüe owns Lars' small-man syndromed ass!

Edited February 6, 2007 by Captainbooyah

[Sixty8panther]

I've been here since December of 2004 and I have NO recollection of BUDMAN.

What did happen to him???