G8 Teaser

[bowtie_dude]

I need to make more money...or rob a bank. If the rest of this thing is as hot as that little piece we saw, it will raise Pontiac back up to my favorite GM brand.

[Robert Hall]

Hopefully the G8 option list will be better than the GTO was...it should offer nav, sunroof, etc...

[hyperv6]

The Bonneville GXP costs close to 40K and sat on dealers lots especially in 2005. (It was a great car tho, and I wanted one but got an SLE due to fuel economy!) They have learned there leason nothing over 35K sells on a Pontiac lot!

Nothing FWD sells on a Pontiac lot over 35K.

At over 35 The GXP was a good car but in that price range too many others offer RWD. GIven the Choice I would pick RWD over FWD anyday.

I will never pay more than 30K for any FWD.

[Robert Hall]

Nothing FWD sells on a Pontiac lot over 35K.

At over 35 The GXP was a good car but in that price range too many others offer RWD. GIven the Choice I would pick RWD over FWD anyday.

I will never pay more than 30K for any FWD.

The only FWD car I'd pay over $30k for would be a TL-S..maybe.

[regfootball]

Right you are...they had better price the entry level car at $ 29.5 K or so...no more than that. Lucerne comes in at mid-20s and that's a Buick.

I don't know if I like it. The shortness and bluntness of the front end doesn't grab me. It does look too much like a previous-gen BMW. Also, considering it's replacing the Bonneville, it looks small. It should be at least the size of an Audi A8.

the statesman is A8 sized.

and it shall be buick. you like buicks, right?

[sciguy_0504]

I'll be in the minority here and say I'd much rather have a Charger. As much as I like Pontiac (GP was my first car) and Australia (have been there), and want to see the division to succeed, this does little for me. Yes, it has a tight, compact body (how I like my men) and the interior is amazing, it just doesn't get me as hot and bothered as the Charger does. If I had the money (for car payment and gas) I'd trade in the xB for a Charger. The G8 does not have that same kind of pull or allure, IMO. Even the name sums up the car: boring, derivative, cheap, lame, V8.

I have a feeling we're looking at a GTO redux (and I loved the GTO, design and everything), especially if the price is off by even the smallest of amounts.

[balthazar]

You've only see half of one fender.

"loved design & everything, tight, compact, amazing >< boring, derivative, cheap"

Any chance the appearance of the word "PONTIAC" on the car is causing your bi-polarism?

[ocnblu]

I am going to shut my mouth until I see this car on the dealer lot and on the road. My fear is it will suffer from "not quite right" syndrome like the underappreciated GTO, but I have sketchy evidence to base that fear on. As we've all learned, photographs distort reality. I do have faith in Bob Lutz' judgment, and realize the GTO was done on a shoestring. I want so much for Pontiac to succeed with this car. So I am opening up my mind.

[hyperv6]

I am going to shut my mouth until I see this car on the dealer lot and on the road. My fear is it will suffer from "not quite right" syndrome like the underappreciated GTO, but I have sketchy evidence to base that fear on. As we've all learned, photographs distort reality. I do have faith in Bob Lutz' judgment, and realize the GTO was done on a shoestring. I want so much for Pontiac to succeed with this car. So I am opening up my mind.

Thank You!

Now do we have anymore sane takers of reality here.

Until you see the whole car with the hood open you can not know enough to toltally praise or condem this car. If you want to comment on the left front fender [we will give you the benefit the right is nearly the same] half the hood, part of the grille and the wheel/ brake your not making a informed fair statement.

We all will know next week what this car has and can faily agree or disagree on it's future. We also may get a glimps into where Pontiac is going in the future as a division.

One word about the future and that is don't expect the past to play a large part in todays car. It Pontiac is to gain sales and market they need to do many new things. This was done in Pontiac's past and while you may not get a Firebird or Judge the cars we get need to appeal to the market as a whole not just to long time Pontiac fans. So if you view this car do it with an eye of what a non Pontiac buyer would think not one of the too few present Pontiac owners or fan.

Lutz only had a small pocket of money for the last GTO and no time to get the car to market. He did a hell of a job considering what little he had to work with. This car will be done with money and time and is not a repeat of the GTO. For those expecting a Retro Bonneville or 65 GTO it is time to let go of the ghost of the past. This car will be as new of a direction as the 59 Wide Track and 69 GP were.

Thank you Blu as your statment sets a good fair path for this car. If the GM fans don't give GM a chance who else will? I just hope those here will follow your lead.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'll say it again. Expect a Holden Commodore with the Pontiac front end you see there. Go to Holden's website if you want to see what this thing will look like.

Edited February 3, 2007 by Oldsmoboi

[frogger]

Meh I'm guessing I won't see this for sale in Canada anyways due to the same reasons they couldn't sell the GTO here.

[Dragon]

DAMNIT!, thats a good point. I'd expect no less from a fellow Saugian. haha

On the other hand, I'd have to think, exporting this to North America would have been on their minds from day 1 of the design process, unlike the GTO/Monaro, so it should have been designed to pass all the insurance cost crash tests.

Also, with the GP dying, there will be a big void in Pontiac Canada's lineup, so they have to fill it with something, and a G8 is the only logical choice. The GTO on the other hand was just a niche vehicle, so it wasn't such a big deal that they dint' get it in their lineup

[maynard]

I'll say it again. Expect a Holden Commodore with the Pontiac front end you see there. Go to Holden's website if you want to see what this thing will look like.

No way!!! really!?!?!??!??!?!?

[Robert Hall]

The loss of the Grand Prix also leaves a hole in Avis' lineup. What are they going to do? More Impalas and G6s?

[georgejetson]

at $35k, the Commodore SS with a 350hp V8 would be an absolute bargain, being that it competes well with the 5-series.

What does that make the $30k 350 hp Charger? A steal?

The Charger is the real competition here, not the BMW. Pontiac has a LOT of work to do before it can plausibly expect to be cross-shopped by significant numbers of BMW intenders.

[sciguy_0504]

You've only see half of one fender.

"loved design & everything, tight, compact, amazing >< boring, derivative, cheap"

Any chance the appearance of the word "PONTIAC" on the car is causing your bi-polarism?

Perhaps you failed to read my entire post or you have selective reading? Plus, I never said I loved the design or thought the exterior was amazing. I like the how taut it is, that's about it.

Quit fooling yourself. We have seen the entire car (Commodore) and now we have seen the grille that will be grafted on to the front of it.

[Dragon]

The loss of the Grand Prix also leaves a hole in Avis' lineup. What are they going to do? More Impalas and G6s?

camry's

[Robert Hall]

Perhaps you failed to read my entire post or you have selective reading? Plus, I never said I loved the design or thought the exterior was amazing. I like the how taut it is, that's about it.

Quit fooling yourself. We have seen the entire car (Commodore) and now we have seen the grille that will be grafted on to the front of it.

But most of us in NA have only seen pictures of the Commodore... as some may know, cars often look different in person than in photos...I'm looking forward to seeing the G8 in person. Anyway I look at it, the Commodore is a 1000% improvement over the blah Grand Prix...

Edited February 3, 2007 by moltar

[turbo200]

how do you know it competes well with the 5-Series?

do you actually believe that many 5series shoppers are going into a Pontiac dealer to shop?

you have the CTS on your list of 'favorite cheap sedans'??????

my point with the comparison was to say the car itself competes well with a 5-series, and will compete will, but as a Pontiac there are different ideas and perspectives it will have to live up to. Because it's a Pontiac, it will be jugded differently, and in many cases, overlooked completely. Like I said in another post, you can't go without cars that are perceived as excellent and relevant and desirable for so long, and not expect some kind of retribution for it.

OK, CTS is on my list of favorite moderately priced luxury/performance sedans... "Cheap" was in reference to even more expensive cars that I like; I wasn't even considering the sub-luxury cars when I drew that up in my mind.

Edited February 3, 2007 by turbo200

[turbo200]

What does that make the $30k 350 hp Charger? A steal?

The Charger is the real competition here, not the BMW. Pontiac has a LOT of work to do before it can plausibly expect to be cross-shopped by significant numbers of BMW intenders.

I was just saying the Commodore SS as an entity itself is a good car that competes well with the 5-series. Pontiac, with good marketing, may be able to commit 500 of the most open-minded BMW buyers in the first year.

[Flybrian]

With the current styling and ubiquitousness of BMWs, I wouldn't be surprised to see fresh Bimmer trade-ins on Pontiac lots.

[balthazar]

Perhaps you failed to read my entire post or you have selective reading? Plus, I never said I loved the design or thought the exterior was amazing. I like the how taut it is, that's about it.

Quit fooling yourself. We have seen the entire car (Commodore) and now we have seen the grille that will be grafted on to the front of it.

Not selective: summarizing. Witness:

>>"As much as I like Pontiac.... I have a feeling we're looking at a GTO redux (and I loved the GTO, design and everything)...it {G8} has a tight, compact body... and the interior is amazing.

In contrast about the G8 you also said:

>>"Even the name sums up the car: boring, derivative, cheap, lame, V8."<<

So again: which is it: tight, compact, loved (ala the GTO's 'everything') & amazing.... or boring, derivative, cheap & lame?

I'll be in the minority here and say I'd much rather have a Charger. As much as I like Pontiac (GP was my first car) and Australia (have been there), and want to see the division to succeed, this does little for me. Yes, it has a tight, compact body (how I like my men) and the interior is amazing, it just doesn't get me as hot and bothered as the Charger does. If I had the money (for car payment and gas) I'd trade in the xB for a Charger. The G8 does not have that same kind of pull or allure, IMO. Even the name sums up the car: boring, derivative, cheap, lame, V8.

I have a feeling we're looking at a GTO redux (and I loved the GTO, design and everything), especially if the price is off by even the smallest of amounts.

[Drew Dowdell]

The loss of the Grand Prix also leaves a hole in Avis' lineup. What are they going to do? More Impalas and G6s?

Ya gotta Sonata.....

[Drew Dowdell]

No way!!! really!?!?!??!??!?!?

I just don't understand what all the speculation is about. You can see clearly that it's Commodore based. It's a Commodore with a Pontiac grill. Not that it's a bad thing, I may even go for a G8 over a CTS in '08.

[Drew Dowdell]

What does that make the $30k 350 hp Charger? A steal?

The Charger is the real competition here, not the BMW. Pontiac has a LOT of work to do before it can plausibly expect to be cross-shopped by significant numbers of BMW intenders.

The interior is way above Pontiac's expected class.

[thegriffon]

DAMNIT!, thats a good point. I'd expect no less from a fellow Saugian. haha

On the other hand, I'd have to think, exporting this to North America would have been on their minds from day 1 of the design process, unlike the GTO/Monaro, so it should have been designed to pass all the insurance cost crash tests.

Also, with the GP dying, there will be a big void in Pontiac Canada's lineup, so they have to fill it with something, and a G8 is the only logical choice. The GTO on the other hand was just a niche vehicle, so it wasn't such a big deal that they dint' get it in their lineup

Unless pricing is very different in the US, the Grand Prix has already been replaced by the G6. Except for the V8 GXP, and the 4-cylinder G6, the G6 actually sits above the Grand Prix price-wise. The G8 will replace the Bonneville.

[hyperv6]

The Charge is the real compitition but there are a lot of wanna be's who want a 5 series but only have a Dodge or Pontiac budget. They can buy the BMW used and expect a money pit in service problems or they can buy a new pontiac with a full 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty.

As for the Charger and it truck like cues work well when it is the only 30K RWD in town but given compitition from a better looking more sporty car it will not look as so cool. The last GTO had better material on ther inside and better quality feel than the Dodge so I expect the new car will be as good or better.

No Pontiac will not sell a lot of these to people who can afford a series but they will sell them to the many more who cant' afford a 5 series.

The Purple Charger SRT in Detroit was god awful. It look like a sour Sweet Tart.

Let's just hope GM refrains from the Judge stickers and stripes as we no longer need cartoon like cars. Beep Beep. I liked the Judge but it's time has come and gone.

Oh and I think our friends north of lake Erie have little to worry about as this is a car intended for North American car not just American. It might be a year late but you should see this one.

Edited February 3, 2007 by hyperv6

[ToniCipriani]

With the current styling and ubiquitousness of BMWs, I wouldn't be surprised to see fresh Bimmer trade-ins on Pontiac lots.

If it's styling, then the cars won't even come off the BMW lot in the first place, not to mention trade-ins on lots.

[MisterMe]

Unless pricing is very different in the US, the Grand Prix has already been replaced by the G6. ... the Grand Prix price-wise. The G8 will replace the Bonneville.

If price is your only consideration, then the G6 with a base MSRP of $17,825 comes in a more than $4000 lower in the pecking order than the Grand Prix whose base MSRP is $21,990. There are, however, multiple axes of class in the US. Price is only one axis. Size is another. The G6 is supposed to be Generation 6 of the Pontiac Grand Am. The G6 replaced the Grand Am and nothing else. The G8 is larger than the Grand Prix. It will replace the Grand Prix and simultaneously fill the slot vacated by the Bonneville.

[thegriffon]

Pay attention now. A V6 Grand Prix is $22430 (including D+H)? Fine, that's only $530 less than a V6 G6. Want more power? A supercharged Grand Prix will set you back $25,350, but a 3.6 L G6 will cost you $25,230. Pretty close huh?. I imagine that if they stuck a V8 in the G6 it would cost—at least as much as the Grand Prix GXP. Looks like the G6 replaces the Grand Prix to me.

[Cory Wolfe]

If price is your only consideration, then the G6 with a base MSRP of $17,825 comes in a more than $4000 lower in the pecking order than the Grand Prix whose base MSRP is $21,990. There are, however, multiple axes of class in the US. Price is only one axis. Size is another. The G6 is supposed to be Generation 6 of the Pontiac Grand Am. The G6 replaced the Grand Am and nothing else. The G8 is larger than the Grand Prix. It will replace the Grand Prix and simultaneously fill the slot vacated by the Bonneville.

G6 stands for nothing, especially in conjuction with the G5 and G8 (as well as the G2 and G3 in Mexico). Believe what you want, but it's nothing more than meaningless alphanumerics.

[97regalGS]

If it's styling, then the cars won't even come off the BMW lot in the first place, not to mention trade-ins on lots.

I'm gonna give you some conquest sales as some folks will buy a V8 Pontiac over a 325. but I guarantee that BMW is not losing any sleep about the possibility of potential 335 or 5Series buyers moving to a G8.

and people who can't afford a BMW don't count, because they weren't going to buy one in the first place.

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm gonna give you some conquest sales as some folks will buy a V8 Pontiac over a 325. but I guarantee that BMW is not losing any sleep about the possibility of potential 335 or 5Series buyers moving to a G8.

and people who can't afford a BMW don't count, because they weren't going to buy one in the first place.

I could see people who want near the performance of an M5 but not the price tag or repair bills being supremely attracted to this. Given all the nice write ups the last Commodore had even when compared to the previous M5, it's not an impossibility.

[Robert Hall]

I could see people who want near the performance of an M5 but not the price tag or repair bills being supremely attracted to this. Given all the nice write ups the last Commodore had even when compared to the previous M5, it's not an impossibility.

Yes... I'd love M5-ish performance and style but at a cheap Pontiac price.. The G8 is definitely very appealing to me as a BMW owner (older M3). But the '08 CTS is also very appealing to me... it's great to see domestics on my radar again. The Charger does nothing for me..I don't care for interior or exterior styling and the lack of manual option rules it out.

[MisterMe]

Pay attention now. A V6 Grand Prix is $22430 (including D+H)? Fine, that's only $530 less than a V6 G6. Want more power? A supercharged Grand Prix will set you back $25,350, but a 3.6 L G6 will cost you $25,230. Pretty close huh?. I imagine that if they stuck a V8 in the G6 it would cost—at least as much as the Grand Prix GXP. Looks like the G6 replaces the Grand Prix to me.

I gave you the source of my prices. What is the source of yours?

[Camino LS6]

I expect this car to debut with the LS2 available and with an upgrade within 2 model years.

[hyperv6]

I'm gonna give you some conquest sales as some folks will buy a V8 Pontiac over a 325. but I guarantee that BMW is not losing any sleep about the possibility of potential 335 or 5Series buyers moving to a G8.

and people who can't afford a BMW don't count, because they weren't going to buy one in the first place.

People who can't afford a BMW do count as they would be buying something other than a FWD GP or G6. A conquest sale is a sale taken from another company and they all count outside GM. The good news is their are more people who want BMW's than can afford them and settle for VW, Toyota, Chrysler, or what ever they can afford in the 20K-40K range. This is the meat of the market.

GM has tried to sell Pontiac as the Euro sedan clean back to the late 60's. The 73-74 Grand Am was compared to Euro models and it is funny today to read those articals. They now have a true Euro like affordable sedan that can compete in its own price range and best the cars like a Charger that is anything but Euro like.

We need to get real here BMW is not going to be losing sleep here but if one can make a BMW like car for the averge person they can increase sales from what it has been.

If you don't believe in wanna bees just look at the many cars that try to be a Mercedes at a lower price. They may have not robbed Merceds sales but they did the styling cues and they are getting sales that others would have had if not for Mercedes envy. More cheap jewlery is sold than expensive just check QVC sales.

The Koreans have Japan worried and they did it in steps. This is what GM will do if they make the right moves. GM is not going to win this war with one truck or one car but with a series of good smart moves and build from there. The Trucks, G8 and crossovers are a first major step to recovery. The first step is the easiest but the second step is more challanging to keep and retain momentum. GM now has momentum and their job now is to build on it. The momentum will require desireable models, fair prices and a high level of qulity in build and materials. GM is starting to do this and it is up to them to remain commited to it.

It is not my opinion GM has momentum but the automotive press in general and they are the ones hard to convince of this.

For what it's worth it is up to Caddy to steal BMW and Benz sales as they are becoming direct competitors.

Edited February 5, 2007 by hyperv6

[MisterMe]

....

GM has tried to sell Pontiac as the Euro sedan clean back to the late 60's. The 73-74 Grand Am was compared to Euro models and it is funny today to read those articals. They now have a true Euro like affordable sedan that can compete in its own price range and best the cars like a Charger that is anything but Euro like.

...

That would be a big fat "What are you talking about, Willis?" During the 1960's, the only European cars that most Americans knew anything about were Volkswagens. This was the heyday of big American iron. Americans did not discover the European sports sedan until 1975 when Ford introduced the Ford Granada and its Mercury twin, which looked like a Mercedez-Benz design exercise and Chevrolet reskinned the Nova to make it look more like a BMW. GM also spread the Nova across its divisions with Omega (Oldsmobile), Ventura (from Pontiac already), and the Apollo (Buick). Based a stretched Nova chassis, the Cadillac Seville was part of GM's response to America's newfound fascination with European cars.

[hyperv6]

That would be a big fat "What are you talking about, Willis?" During the 1960's, the only European cars that most Americans knew anything about were Volkswagens. This was the heyday of big American iron. Americans did not discover the European sports sedan until 1975 when Ford introduced the Ford Granada and its Mercury twin, which looked like a Mercedez-Benz design exercise and Chevrolet reskinned the Nova to make it look more like a BMW. GM also spread the Nova across its divisions with Omega (Oldsmobile), Ventura (from Pontiac already), and the Apollo (Buick). Based a stretched Nova chassis, the Cadillac Seville was part of GM's response to America's newfound fascination with European cars.

You had better take a better look at your Pontiac history before you get to cocky.

John Delorean tried to bring things to Pontiac in the 60's like Fuel injection for the average car, 4 wheel disc brakes on a sedan, overhead cam Engines V8 of which a inline 6 did make production and all inspired by Europe. John had a love of BMW and Mercedes that he want to bring to the US market. The XP400 was equiped with Cibie lights and other items found only on cars from Europe like overdrive and superchargers with side draft carbs. Check many of the Pontiac show cars and the Euro effect that seldom made production. Delorean loved Geramn cars and wanted to bring their effect to Pontiac.

The Grand Am was claimed in the 70's [by Pontiac Not Me] as their answer to the Euro sports sedan/coupe. I even have a magazine [i believe Road and Track from 73] that even took Pontiac to task for such a claim by a head to head and comparing it to a Mecedes sedan. It performed well but never could match the much more expensive Mecedes sport sedan. Sadly by the time this car hit Delorean was already at Chevy and on his way out the door after making the Cosworth Vega. Hmm Willis I think Cosworth is from England and DOHC and Fuel injection here was also Euro inspired by the D man again. Hmm I see a pattern! Where Delorean went the Euro influance went.

Pontiac again tried to sell us the STE as a Euro like Sedan of which it clearly was not. Even the J numbered cars were lifted as Euro.

As for your Nova claim I see no BMW there other than 4 wheels?? As for the Granda and Caddy I am well aware of the styling claim but they never delivered handling or performance as Pontiac tried to do.

Most of what Pontiac tried or wanted in the 60 was mechanical and turned down by GM. Just think if the GTO or Lemans sedan had got the 4 wheel disc and Michelin radials as Delorean wanted powered by a DOHC Pontiac V8. Even the lack of chrome was euro inspired at a time most car companies pasted as much on as they could in the 60's. Pontiac has long had a struggle with GM corperate of wanting to go more Euro when GM wanted more American.

You don't think the GTO lifed its name from a Rambler do you? Even Wangers made up the GTO vs Ferarri GTO story for Car And Driver. The classic Story of a Royal Bobcat vs a Ferarri that was never tested at the same time. Pontiac and Delorean wanted to prove they could run with the best from Europe even in 64 with this juced up GTO Pontiac.

Read Delorean's book "On a Clear Day You Can See GM" it has a lot of insite on his plans and Euro influence that were snuffed by GM. Also pick up Jim Wangers Glory Days. Jim is a little full of himself but has a lot of Pontiac history that is documented.

As for the Americans knowing about Euro car they knew about them, every Vet in Europe in the 40's, 50's and 60's did. But could not afford many as most were privatly imported till the 70's. My father still regrets not bringing one of his cars back. Lets face it even Mecedes got a late start in the late 50 and 60 with Studebaker as their importer. That alone should have set them back a few years.

Anyway the G8 will do well with those who would like the BMW concept but only have Acura money. Lets face it GM has not put the pressure on Pontiac with limited imports and only expanding them if needed. I think they feel gas will effect sales more than anything. and this is only the first step in many more changes at Pontiac. Their future is not riding on this one single car.

Edited February 5, 2007 by hyperv6

[ocnblu]

Good write-up, hyper.

[thegriffon]

I gave you the source of my prices. What is the source of yours?

GM's 2007 price list.

[Camino LS6]

Good write-up, hyper.

Agreed.

Excellent summary.

[MisterMe]

You had better take a better look at your Pontiac history before you get to cocky.

...

You are mixing eras. The original Grand Am was a (two-door or four-door) LeMans on a performance chassis with a Grand Prix interior. It was introduced in 1973, IIRC. The first STE was the Pontiac 6000 STE which was introduced in the 1980's some twenty years after the era you claim. By the time that I could afford a 6000, the STE was no longer available. However, I did buy and own a 1992 Grand Prix STE as soon as it became available. I owned my GP STE until 1997.

At any rate, you are throwing in things like fuel injection to support your assertion that GM had a fascination with European cars. Well, fuel injection is just a fuel delivery system. Theoretically, it has always had the potential to deliver fuel more efficiently and extract more power from an engine than a carburetor. However, fuel injection systems had reliability issues until the advent of digital systems. American manufacturers have used fuel injection for decades prior to the 1960's.

I suppose that you will next claim that the handbrake is "European."

Edited February 5, 2007 by MisterMe

[balthazar]

American automotive manufacturers did not use FI prior to 1957, when Pontiac & Chevrolet introduced their systems (Chrysler/ Dodge/ DeSoto/ Plymouth intro'd FI in '58). That would not be "decades" before the '60s by my calculator.

The Ford Granada/Mercedes issue was a very lame advertising joke: the entire premise was based on looks, and there simple wasn't anything to it other than the same paint color & photographic angles.

The Seville was indeed a successful entry into the 'international-sized' luxury car ideal, but I should also correct the notion that the 1st gen Seville rode on a "stretched Nova chassis", because it did not at all.

Hyperv6 is pretty much spot on with his facts: Pontiac indeed made strides towards more 'European' sporting cars with the OHC Sprint 6 Tempest/LeMans beginning in '66-67, and the same powertrain in the Firebird, the stripped-down GT-37 of '70-71, the decidedly European Firebird redesign of '70 and the 1st gen GA of '73-75. A lot of the features mentioned were in production on European cars before American, so to make a point to incorporate numerous examples of these features could be called 'going European', I suppose.

What needs to be recognized here is that both the American car and the European car have steadily moved toward a central design about halfway between the 2; the European car has become far more advanced, safe, larger, luxurious and powerful than it ever was in the '60s as a direct result of competition with American cars.

[z28luvr01]

Another teaser pic:

Source: http://pontiacunderground.autos.yahoo.com/

[intrigued]

looks even hotter. IF it continues to look this good and has an interior like the holdens this will be my next car on a few conditions.

it has to have NAV

it has to have an LSD

6 speed auto

at least the LS2.

And it needs to come loaded for 35k or less.

I love the new CTS but loaded the way Id want it it will be 5-10k out of my price range to out right buy it. I could afford to take on the car payment but I wouldnt want to. My next car i will buy outright and this looks like it will do the job and thne some for me. If Iit has the new LS3 even better.

[Drew Dowdell]

Another teaser pic:

Isn't that embargoed?

[z28luvr01]

Oldsmoboi: check my edited post.

[MisterMe]

American automotive manufacturers did not use FI prior to 1957, when Pontiac & Chevrolet introduced their systems (Chrysler/ Dodge/ DeSoto/ Plymouth intro'd FI in '58). That would not be "decades" before the '60s by my calculator.

...

You are correct about the date when GM introduced fuel injection in passenger cars. However, 1957 is just two years after 1955 when Mercedez-Benz introduced the first commercial FI system on the 300SL. Two years is hardly long enough for FI to be considered a signature feature of European cars.

[thegriffon]

looks even hotter. IF it continues to look this good and has an interior like the holdens this will be my next car on a few conditions.

it has to have NAV

it has to have an LSD

6 speed auto

at least the LS2.

And it needs to come loaded for 35k or less.

I love the new CTS but loaded the way Id want it it will be 5-10k out of my price range to out right buy it. I could afford to take on the car payment but I wouldnt want to. My next car i will buy outright and this looks like it will do the job and thne some for me. If Iit has the new LS3 even better.

It's unlikely to even start below $35K. Loaded it will easily stretch into the mid $40s. Figure pricing similar to the 300C rather than the Dodge Charger.