If Zeta Came To North America Which Vehicles....?

[RBB]

Just wanted to echo everyone's thanks to Evok for all the info - it's much appreciated. -RBB

[prototype66]

CAPRICE CAMARO GTO GRAND PRIX BUICK SKYLARK GS VALITE

[Petra]

Anybody know how much capacity Holden has for building extra Zeta models? Building in Australia is really the only way I can think of that we might have a chance of seeing a Zeta car here before the end of the decade. Remember, folks: it's taking far too much time (and money, probably) to re-tool for North American production, which is why GM isn't saying anything about any RWD car models before 2010.

[Ghost Dog]

Anybody know how much capacity Holden has for building extra Zeta models? Building in Australia is really the only way I can think of that we might have a chance of seeing a Zeta car here before the end of the decade. Remember, folks: it's taking far too much time (and money, probably) to re-tool for North American production, which is why GM isn't saying anything about any RWD car models before 2010.

[post="20847"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

The Canadian Government kicked over hundreds of millions of dollars to GM this spring. The Understanding was that oshawa 2 would be retooled in 2007.

[evok]

Anybody know how much capacity Holden has for building extra Zeta models? Building in Australia is really the only way I can think of that we might have a chance of seeing a Zeta car here before the end of the decade. Remember, folks: it's taking far too much time (and money, probably) to re-tool for North American production, which is why GM isn't saying anything about any RWD car models before 2010.

[post="20847"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Nah - there are other options.

[LosAngeles]

I'm going to weigh in and let the responses come how they come. I don't like the idea of a GTO being a stand-alone big car, and I don't think a sports car (Firebird or Camaro) should be based on one....leave those cars to smaller chassis. GTO should be the hi-po trim of the next-gen intermediate car (whatever it's called) and the Thunder Chicken and Aqua Fresh brothers can come from an intermediate or compact chassis. So off of this big car chassis, I'd see the following: Four-door sedans (about 198" in length/58" in height) -Chevy Biscayne (Lumina outside of N. America)--like it or not, this would replace the Impala, allowing the Impala name to return later as a performance trim of this car. Out of all the bigs, this car should use a solid rear axle and already be engineered for heavy duty use. -Buick Centurion--replace all the bigs here and Royaum in China with the crispiest, most loaded international-size car Buick can style. Coupes (195" length/55" height) -Pontiac Grand Prix--replace the current GP with a four-door with suicide doors. This should be a true flagship, combining the best performance technology with styling cues from the classic personal GPs. A personal car that's a great transition from the sedans America's been used to for 15 years. No trim levels, just three or four options to consider. -Buick Riviera--the return of the oval R! Available in coupe and convertible. Atlas straight-six standard on all but the GP, which would be V-8 only. 4.2L Atlas straight-six (Bisc., Cent., Riv.) smallblock V-8 (Bisc., GP) 5.0L N* V-8 with Displacement on Demand (GP, Cent., Riv.) Manual available on all but Centurion (standard on GP). There you go, a lineup with no toes stepped on. The Chevy is too tall to eat into the GP, and too basic to be chosen over either the Pontiac or Buick. The Pontiac cedes the upright luxury sedan segment and two-door to Buick, while the Pontiac would be the best performer of the group, keeping the luxury of the GPs of yesteryear, but in the sportiest package. Edited October 4, 2005 by LosAngeles

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

El Camino!!

[Brandon Lutz]

Velite Grand National Tempest GTO Caprice

[Petra]

I'm going to weigh in and let the responses come how they come.

I don't like the idea of a GTO being a stand-alone big car, and I don't think a sports car (Firebird or Camaro) should be based on one....leave those cars to smaller chassis.  GTO should be the hi-po trim of the next-gen intermediate car (whatever it's called) and the Thunder Chicken and Aqua Fresh brothers can come from an intermediate or compact chassis.

So off of this big car chassis, I'd see the following:

Four-door sedans (about 198" in length/58" in height)
-Chevy Biscayne (Lumina outside of N. America)--like it or not, this would replace the Impala, allowing the Impala name to return later as a performance trim of this car.  Out of all the bigs, this car should use a solid rear axle and already be engineered for heavy duty use.
-Buick Centurion--replace all the bigs here and Royaum in China with the crispiest, most loaded international-size car Buick can style.

Coupes (195" length/55" height)
-Pontiac Grand Prix--replace the current GP with a four-door with suicide doors.  This should be a true flagship, combining the best performance technology with styling cues from the classic personal GPs.  A personal car that's a great transition from the sedans America's been used to for 15 years.  No trim levels, just three or four options to consider.
-Buick Riviera--the return of the oval R!  Available in coupe and convertible.

Atlas straight-six standard on all but the GP, which would be V-8 only.
4.2L Atlas straight-six (Bisc., Cent., Riv.)
smallblock V-8 (Bisc., GP)
5.0L N* V-8 with Displacement on Demand (GP, Cent., Riv.)

Manual available on all but Centurion (standard on GP).

There you go, a lineup with no toes stepped on.  The Chevy is too tall to eat into the GP, and too basic to be chosen over either the Pontiac or Buick.  The Pontiac cedes the upright luxury sedan segment and two-door to Buick, while the Pontiac would be the best performer of the group, keeping the luxury of the GPs of yesteryear, but in the sportiest package.

[post="23839"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I like your lineup; it makes a lot of sense to me. However, I think that too many people want the Camaro to return for this to work. I don't think GM can afford two separate RWD platforms. If the Camaro was simply a shortened version of the G.P/Riviera, though...

[LosAngeles]

The thing with cats on this board, Petra, is this: everyone has their emotional attachment to their brands that brought them into the GM fold, or more to the point, their brand's glory years. In basic, too many attachments, not to mention too many of the wrong ones. The Camaro (and the Firebird and GTO, C&G afterthoughts) shouldn't be and should never be a big car or based on a big car...there's plenty of ways around this for GM. The current Mustang is based on a Focus. Kappa is found to not only be based on Delta, but a piecemeal of a ton of other GM platforms. Epsilon II is rumored to be a flexible platform on one end, and a strict front-driver on another. I understand all these super Chevy fans want a Camaro in the worst way. IMO, basing it on a big car would be the worst way. The Mustang this car is aimed squarely at would kill it in overall feel. No one wants the pony car to be another pat on the back like the Solstice, you want the benchmark the Corvette is. In general, time should be taken with that car. I don't have the emotional attachment to the Camaro to want it back yesterday, so I say explore other options. On the GTO, while it definitely has to be a two door, it isn't a big car either, nor does it have to stand alone. It was never an exotic, it came from a volume car...even this current car does, it just happens to be one from another hemisphere. To get the volume that makes GTO sense, it's better to make it the top trim of the next intermediate coupe, whether it's called G6 or whatever. But what you do is you design the intermediate from the GTO downwards, as opposed to the base sedan upward, then the car is capable of what you want it to do from jumpstreet. Pontiac has a chance for their whole mid-size lineup to be done right. I personally don't even see the division locked into using Epsilon II for it. If you can't use a strict rear-drive chassis, the option is there to use a chassis you can give standard full-time AWD, which from there, the option exists to make the cheapies below GTO strict front-drives. If VW, Jaguar, and Ford can do it, why can't Pontiac? It's such a mess, it's hard not to ramble about. But it's quite fixable. Some of the prejudices, biases, and emotional attachments have to be let go of first. None of these divisions have to be all things to all people, they don't have to step on one another's toes. Pontiac and Buick don't have to be in the family car business, just like Chevy doesn't have to be in evey segment on the planet. And to the others, please stop with the weirdness about bringing back names like Chevelle and Bel Air.....Chevelle belongs back in the 60s, and Bel Air simply doesn't fit what Chevy really is at any trim level (one could argue that about Malibu too, but hey....)

[carman21]

I was thinking, How about a 3.9L 242hp V-6 & a 5.3L 320hp hp V-8 in a Camaro and Bel Air. The Grand Prix would be a Zeta sedan and coupe. The GTO would be a high-performance GP coupe, although a separate car model. Well, that's a start. Edited October 5, 2005 by carman21

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

isnt the next 3.6L supposed to be kicking out 300range hp?

[91z4me]

isnt the next 3.6L supposed to be kicking out 300range hp?

[post="24127"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yes.

[ehaase]

At this time, the insiders have said that they have only heard of RWD sedans for Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Buick, so why continue the speculation?

[knightfan26917]

At this time, the insiders have said that they have only heard of RWD sedans for Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Buick, so why continue the speculation?

Key words in that phrase:

"have only heard of"


So...I'm not going to believe any of this until I actually see 'em in the Chevrolet/Pontiac/Buick dealerships....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

[Guest Josh]

Woah woah woah woah!!! KAPPA IS NOT BASED ON DELTA! Stop the presses. That's just what was written. Kappa is ALL NEW from the ground up. If people only knew what the "baby child" of Kappa the Solstice where to be.....they'd flip their lids at the General! The Solstice as we know it not is the the "original Kappa" at all. Think 'Vette......plus bad ass lines!

[turbo200]

Yes.

[post="24156"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

where was this confirmed? what will they be using to get power like that out of that engine? can we expect other improvements, NVH and mileage in particular?

[skepticman]

where was this confirmed? what will they be using to get power like that out of that engine? can we expect other improvements, NVH and mileage in particular?

[post="24710"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Here is a poster who claims to know someone who has driven the new engine.

"My friend just came back from testing for the new CTS. He says the new engine is over 300 HP with the new direct injection."

[91z4me]

where was this confirmed? what will they be using to get power like that out of that engine? can we expect other improvements, NVH and mileage in particular?

[post="24710"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Search for DI 3.6 There was a few articles that were posted mentioning it.

[turbo200]

that puts me back in the swing of things with regard to the CTS. Terrific, will make this car a class leader if everything comes to fruition.

[LosAngeles]

Woah woah woah woah!!! KAPPA IS NOT BASED ON DELTA!

[post="24677"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Not one piece EVER came from Delta? Let's be clear on this one, because things are written it about it claiming a piece of everything out there....

[turbo200]

Let's say a steering rack came from Delta and use on Kappa, hypothetically, that wouldn't make Kappa in any way shape or form based on Delta. Kappa is really more based on the Corvette and it's tubular structure. To shorten development time on Kappa, GM used a lot of off the shelf components for it, a rear axle from the CTS, brakes from somewhere else, etc etc...