Letter to GM from Edmonds.com president

[BuddyP]

Got this from a buddy of mine that works at GM. This was sent to GM exec's and they forwarded it to the employee's...

"Just hapened to get this in a E-mail today that was sent to a GM exec and forwarded around the company.

01/18/2007 01:09 PM

Hi Guys:

You probably heard that Michelle Krebs has joined our editorial team. (We are launching a new site that we will be announcing at the Chicago Auto Show that Michelle will be heading up…)

Anyway, she was on the West Coast this week and by happenstance was seated next to a Honda exec on her trip home. Michelle passed along his comments and I thought you might be interested in the following:

“He said Honda execs (including from Japan) were blown away by GM's new products, especially the Outlook, Acadia and Enclave. They are worried as hell. (Look at the consideration of the new Pilot vs. the Outlook in our data and they should be) He says even the next Pilot doesn't measure up to the current Outlook. Said no one in the industry is doing surfaces the way GM is and he's jealous because the Japanese refuse to even try.”

Obviously, consumer opinions are the ones that matter, but industry attention doesn’t hurt. J

Regards,

Jeremy P. Anwyl

President

Edmunds.com CarSpace.com InsideLine.com"

Edited January 25, 2007 by BuddyP

[Northstar]

Wow, so Honda has said themselves that the Outlook is better than the new Pilot? Impressive stuff!

[AAS]

Nice... very nice... almost surreal! In my [GM biased] opinion, the Lambdas really are awesome, and it's nice to see that reinforced by "the industry."

[GXT]

Why is the president of Edmunds sending emails to GM execs?

What does she mean by "surfaces"?

[BuddyP]

Why is the president of Edmunds sending emails to GM execs?

What does she mean by "surfaces"?

I have an idea Edmonds stays fairly close contact with the manufacturers... but not sure other than that.

Surfaces is the exterior sheetmetal work. The untrained eye may not pick up on the flow of the sheetmelal but there are manufacturing limits to what can be done with it, and that depens on whether a peice of metal needs 1, 2 or 3 stages of stamping. Of couse the more stages, the more expensive to produce. That's about the best that I can explain it.

[Dragon]

Why is the president of Edmunds sending emails to GM execs?

What does she mean by "surfaces"?

I'm assuming she mean A-surfaces (appearance), mainly sheet metal, but plastic too.

Call me cynical, but I have a hard time buying this. Not because it isn't possible that Honda is scared of GM's new product. But that a Honda exec would actually tell somebody, especially an American reporter, or that the first we'd here about it is through a friend of a GM worker who had it forwarded to him from Execs who were told by the reporter, and not through the reporter's website itself.

If its true, great, but until there is some kind of verification, meh.

[siegen]

“He said Honda execs (including from Japan) were blown away by GM's new products, especially the Outlook, Acadia and Enclave. They are worried as hell. (Look at the consideration of the new Pilot vs. the Outlook in our data and they should be) He says even the next Pilot doesn't measure up to the current Outlook. Said no one in the industry is doing surfaces the way GM is and he's jealous because the Japanese refuse to even try.”

lolol

I can't believe some of you believe this.

[toesuf94]

If it is true - great! If not - who cares. I really could care less what Honda has to say when it comes to the automotive market, as find their products unexciting and do nothing to attract me to their showrooms.

I for one, cannot WAIT to buy my wife one of the new crossovers. As soon as her lease is up - there will be one in our driveway.

[Drew Dowdell]

While I can believe Honda was surprised by the Outlook and now concerned about the upcoming Pilot, I doubt that this situation actually happened.

[Sixty8panther]

I'll take this with a grain of salt.

It would be cool if that conversation actually happened, but i'm not so sure.

Either way GM is finally in a renaisance of sorts!

[Chevyguy2001]

This is just like a guy i work with said he saw a japanese kid driving a Supercharged Cobalt SS.....I told him You will never see that happen.

[Cory Wolfe]

Call me cynical, but I have a hard time buying this. Not because it isn't possible that Honda is scared of GM's new product. But that a Honda exec would actually tell somebody, especially an American reporter, or that the first we'd here about it is through a friend of a GM worker who had it forwarded to him from Execs who were told by the reporter, and not through the reporter's website itself.

If its true, great, but until there is some kind of verification, meh.

[FAPTurbo]

This is just like a guy i work with said he saw a japanese kid driving a Supercharged Cobalt SS.....I told him You will never see that happen.

Weird. I see plenty of Asian people drive Cobalt SS's and (Neon) SRT-4's.

Hell, just yesterday some guy in a 1969 Camaro pulled up at my work, and he's from Taiwan.

...

As for this, 'letter,' I doubt this sort of thing occurred. The Pilot will be a very good vehicle. However, I'm sure Honda raised it's eyebrows when the Lambda's debuted, and realized it was in for some competition.

[Imaj]

The industry was suprised by the new Lambdas. Just shows that when GM can shock everyone and build the best vehicles ever! No one expected this! All thought GM was an ailing giant.

[BB_454]

The owner of Toyota of Lewisville son has a 68 Camaro. Their japanese I believe, the father also owns a new Z06 and a Ford GT along with a BMW 745li.

Edited January 25, 2007 by BB_454

[BuddyP]

lolol

I can't believe some of you believe this.

I don't know what to say really either, but all I can say that it was sent through the company via one of GM's best... let's just say it was sent by one who many on here have high respects for. There was more to the email that was interesting as well but was asked not to post anything else, hence the reason I didn't post who the email came from or who all it was CC'd to.

It came from a direct reliable source of mine. Not someones father who works at such and such. Take it for what it's worth

[NOS2006]

Yeah, "surface" is practically an engineering term defined by all visible pieces of all materials on products. A-Surface is what you see on the street everyday (the FRONT/FACE side of all materials) and B-Surface is when you take a fender or instrument panel off the vehicle and look at the BACK side of it.

Regardless, this is great to hear.

[I hope GMRULES again]

Not too sure myself if its true but if it is then that's great. I did hear a guy standing next to me at the auto show last week who was admiring the new malibu say it was so nice he would consider selling his Honda for one so I turned to him and said I think GM has found their Mojo and he said I think so too.

[NOS2006]

Not too sure myself if its true but if it is then that's great. I did hear a guy standing next to me at the auto show last week who was admiring the new malibu say it was so nice he would consider selling his Honda for one so I turned to him and said I think GM has found their Mojo and he said I think so too.

Ironically, like in Austin Powers, it looks like GM reached into a time before they cryogenically froze themselves and regained that mojo they had from way back when. (well, the movie is played out a bit differently, but you get the point..)

[haypops]

While this may bogus, it may not be. I remember a few years ago when Honda changed presidents there was an article in the media where it was reported that he commented that GM was the class of American vehicles. So there is a history of this sort of thing.

[RangerVT]

Hoax or not. I think we can all agree that GM has turned their act around in leaps and bounds with the new product releases. I would not be surprised if Honda and Toyota had their eyes opened up a bit more seeing the debuts in Detroit. I still think the Tundra was held up after seeing the new Silverado! Maybe we could be a little less skeptical and take Good News just as that, Good News for GM!

[Sixty8panther]

I've seen plenty of Asians driving Muscle Cars. My Friend Song is one of them.

[balthazar]

lolol I can't believe some of you believe this.

You're right- the very idea is laughable. Besides, honda is well know for ignoring it's competition.

[BuddyP]

The email is most deffinatly NOT a hoax... , it is an actual email that was sent out today. I can't tell you anything about the info put in the email though. Again... It came from what of GM's best.

[Cadillacfan]

I doubt this actually happened. I'll believe that the Pilot is inferior when I see it at the upcoming autoshow.

[mightymouse]

I got this at work also, with a string of congrats....

Edited January 26, 2007 by mightymouse

[big blue]

The owner of Toyota of Lewisville son has a 68 Camaro. Their japanese I believe, the father also owns a new Z06 and a Ford GT along with a BMW 745li.

Heh I never knew the owners had all those cars, much less were Japanese. I need to stop by there and become buddy buddy with them

[-Camaro-]

You're right- the very idea is laughable. Besides, honda is well know for ignoring it's competition.

Is that the new Pilot? It looks 90's compared to the outlook. lol Even if it's not the new one it still looks like 90s design.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Either way, this is cool.

But, I'm more concerned with what "The mighty Juggernaut" Toyota thinks.

[toyoguy]

Either way, this is cool.

But, I'm more concerned with what "The mighty Juggernaut" Toyota thinks.

You'll see the new Highlander at Chicago.

[BatmanGTO]

I hate to be the downer in all of this but i think we need to get past the "race" card. especially when it comes to japan vs. U.S. auto makers. there is a fair amount of all ethnicities in all car companies so if seeing a person driving a car they "are not likely to drive" doesnt really mean anything. yes people with asian heritage drive american muscle just like "american" caucasians drive japanese cars..... people drive what they wish.

[Intrepidation]

Is that the new Pilot? It looks 90's compared to the outlook. lol Even if it's not the new one it still looks like 90s design.

That's the current Pilot.

[ZL-1]

Anyway, she was on the West Coast this week and by happenstance was seated next to a Honda exec on her trip home. Michelle passed along his comments and I thought you might be interested in the following:

“He said Honda execs (including from Japan) were blown away by GM's new products, especially the Outlook, Acadia and Enclave. They are worried as hell. (Look at the consideration of the new Pilot vs. the Outlook in our data and they should be) He says even the next Pilot doesn't measure up to the current Outlook. Said no one in the industry is doing surfaces the way GM is and he's jealous because the Japanese refuse to even try.”

I wouldn't make this comment to the person sitting next to me on an airplane.

[ponchoman49]

If only we could have Buicks that scared the Asian marques.

[Dragon]

If only we could have Buicks that scared the Asian marques.

they will be, and soon. If Honda is scared of the Outlook, the Enclave must have them shaking in their boots.

just need to let the boys at GM finish getting out the new line of Saturns

[GXT]

I wouldn't make this comment to the person sitting next to me on an airplane.

Nor should the president of a organization who reviews vehicles be sending "She said he said" emails to the execs of companies who manufacture the products they review. Certainly that would raise concerns of bias.

Plus they wouldn't out the reporter who heard the comments as that would hurt the reporter's chance of getting future information.

This has all the signs of a made up story that name drops in order to try to gain credibility.

If it is true, very poor of edmunds. If it is false, this speaks to the desperation or stupidity of GM.

[sciguy_0504]

While I find it hard to believe this actually happened word-for-word, I truely believe the industry thinks the Lambdas are damn good vehicles. Everything points to it, from reviews to news articles to consumer feedback. Is GM back? Not yet entirely but it's on the road there.

[ChevyNovs99]

I don't see where you guys are reading that these comments were made directly to the reporter. To me this is like when Motor Trend wrote about Piech's comments on the CTS, they were just overheard like this probably was.

[FAPTurbo]

If it is false, this speaks to the desperation or stupidity of GM.

I don't see GM being all that desperate at the moment...

[Camino LS6]

Nor should the president of a organization who reviews vehicles be sending "She said he said" emails to the execs of companies who manufacture the products they review. Certainly that would raise concerns of bias.

Plus they wouldn't out the reporter who heard the comments as that would hurt the reporter's chance of getting future information.

This has all the signs of a made up story that name drops in order to try to gain credibility.

If it is true, very poor of edmunds. If it is false, this speaks to the desperation or stupidity of GM.

Relax everyone. This has all the earmarks of a casual e-mail communication with candor not meant for public consumption. The story, while purely anecdotal, seems plausible enough for casual conversation. I could see an exec venting frustration with a perceived unwillingness on the part of his company to do something he sees as important making comments like this. Remember, this was not part of a published article just a casual e-mail. Also remember that it was sent around GM as an internal e-mail not issued in a press release.

GM is not stupid nor desperate, and Edmund's may have made an error in being so candid, but I see no grand conspiracy here.

[Dragon]

I don't see where you guys are reading that these comments were made directly to the reporter. To me this is like when Motor Trend wrote about Piech's comments on the CTS, they were just overheard like this probably was.

who else would he have said it too? The window? If he had been telling another exec, I think that exec would have been mentioned.

If it was not meant for public consumption, than I doubt the GM exec would have sent it to every employee. They had to have known at least a couple of people would mention it too their friends, seeing as how they've been stung by the early release of information before and all

[Mr.Krinkle]

This boils down to hearsay. Maybe the Honda exec was bs'ing and is now getting a good laugh back at the office. WHo knows?

Relax everyone. This has all the earmarks of a casual e-mail communication with candor not meant for public consumption. The story, while purely anecdotal, seems plausible enough for casual conversation. I could see an exec venting frustration with a perceived unwillingness on the part of his company to do something he sees as important making comments like this. Remember, this was not part of a published article just a casual e-mail. Also remember that it was sent around GM as an internal e-mail not issued in a press release.

GM is not stupid nor desperate, and Edmund's may have made an error in being so candid, but I see no grand conspiracy here.

I agree with this scenario and will add there is such a thing as friendly competetion. Not too long ago Lutz said he "likes the Tundra" The superbowl is coming up, lets see how many times the bears praise peyton manning. Or say how tough the other teams running game is or how good of a defense theyll be up against. No one is getting a poly.

[GXT]

GM is not stupid nor desperate, and Edmund's may have made an error in being so candid, but I see no grand conspiracy here.

No matter how good BuddyP says a friend of his says someone at his office says one of the GM exec says Jeremy Anwyl says Michelle Krebs's paraphrases some namelss Honda exec says GM's "surfaces" are, I just can't see Honda being "worried as hell" about the Acadia, Outlook, etc. Let alone say it in public.

I would like to know exactly what GM is doing to their "surfaces" that the Japanese are so in awe of but absolutely refuse even to try.

BuddyP, can you get the header information from the email? Perhaps there is some information in there that could trace it back.

[Camino LS6]

No matter how good BuddyP says a friend of his says someone at his office says one of the GM exec says Jeremy Anwyl says Michelle Krebs's paraphrases some namelss Honda exec says GM's "surfaces" are, I just can't see Honda being "worried as hell" about the Acadia, Outlook, etc. Let alone say it in public.

I would like to know exactly what GM is doing to their "surfaces" that the Japanese are so in awe of but absolutely refuse even to try.

BuddyP, can you get the header information from the email? Perhaps there is some information in there that could trace it back.

Go back and re-read the posts. The existence of the e-mail within GM is confirmed by members that work for GM. They cannot and should not reveal more than they have without risking their jobs. It would be pointless to do so anyway.

[Intrepidation]

No matter how good BuddyP says a friend of his says someone at his office says one of the GM exec says Jeremy Anwyl says Michelle Krebs's paraphrases some namelss Honda exec says GM's "surfaces" are, I just can't see Honda being "worried as hell" about the Acadia, Outlook, etc. Let alone say it in public.

I would like to know exactly what GM is doing to their "surfaces" that the Japanese are so in awe of but absolutely refuse even to try.

BuddyP, can you get the header information from the email? Perhaps there is some information in there that could trace it back.

Go back and re-read the posts. The existence of the e-mail within GM is confirmed by members that work for GM. They cannot and should not reveal more than they have without risking their jobs. It would be pointless to do so anyway.

It's just like at any job...some things are meant to stay within the company...release too many details and you're liable to get fired.

-----

It's common knowledge that most people perceive Japanese vehicles (namely Toyota and Honda) to be reliable, well built (although with the recent issues that Toyota is having, that is subject to change) cars that lack the striking design many American manufacturers put out. This is of course, subjective, but by and large most people think of them as bland. To compare with a few examples: there is the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry VS the Dodge Charger, Saturn Aura, and NG Malibu. In the SUV department there is the Toyota Sequoia VS the Tahoe and Expedition. In the compact SUV/CUV department there's the CR-V VS the Nitro. In the roadster department there is the S2000 VS the Sky and Solstice. Then there's cars the Japanese can't even compete with (meaning they don't have a vehicle in the segment) like the Viper, Corvette, Mustang, and Camaro. Many of them can be regarded as show stoppers...when's the last time a Japanese car stole the show?

As far as "refuse to try" maybe he meant that for so long, Honda (and Toyota) have sold their cars on quality and reliability that there's been no need to try designing an exciting car...but now that is changing as the quality gap closes. If the domestics are truly closing the quality gap as much they seem to be, than that nullifies Honda's (and Toyota's) biggest selling point, and combined with designs that most people find more exciting, Japan Inc. had better be worried.

[regfootball]

No matter how good BuddyP says a friend of his says someone at his office says one of the GM exec says Jeremy Anwyl says Michelle Krebs's paraphrases some namelss Honda exec says GM's "surfaces" are, I just can't see Honda being "worried as hell" about the Acadia, Outlook, etc. Let alone say it in public.

I would like to know exactly what GM is doing to their "surfaces" that the Japanese are so in awe of but absolutely refuse even to try.

BuddyP, can you get the header information from the email? Perhaps there is some information in there that could trace it back.

The only thing I can think of in this regard, I will go back and mention how GM was proud when the HHr came out because of the complex stamping process used on the HHR fenders. I think it was something to the effect of multiple stamping and enormous expense and quality control process that was required to get the shape and level of consistency and quality of those pieces on the HHR. It apparently was to such an expense and effort that Gm would have never considered before but with Lutz being a disciple of design and quality they were able to convince the brass that it was needed to preserve the desirability of the car and design. fast forward to Outlook, again, if we have proof that GM is willing to go to expense and effort that had not been demonstrated before, to produce a fender for a fairly cost conscious product....maybe what this says to me now that others in the industry such as Honda are seeing that GM is willing to take the gloves off in terms of sweating details they previously would not go to effort on. And if it gets to the point where Honda etc. takes notice that GM is going to start to take the gloves off with all their products....that might be what has them worried. they may be worried that GM will no longer always dumb it down and give the hondas of the world a free ride to the top.

Edited January 26, 2007 by regfootball

[Intrepidation]

The only thing I can think of in this regard, I will go back and mention how GM was proud when the HHr came out because of the complex stamping process used on the HHR fenders. I think it was something to the effect of multiple stamping and enormous expense and quality control process that was required to get the shape and level of consistency and quality of those pieces on the HHR. It apparently was to such an expense and effort that Gm would have never considered before but with Lutz being a disciple of design and quality they were able to convince the brass that it was needed to preserve the desirability of the car and design. fast forward to Outlook, again, if we have proof that GM is willing to go to expense and effort that had not been demonstrated before, to produce a fender for a fairly cost conscious product....maybe what this says to me now that others in the industry such as Honda are seeing that GM is willing to take the gloves off in terms of sweating details they previously would not go to effort on. And if it gets to the point where Honda etc. takes notice that GM is going to start to take the gloves off with all their products....that might be what has them worried. they may be worried that GM will no longer always dumb it down and give the hondas of the world a free ride to the top.

Don't forget amount the subtle, yet expensive modifications GM is making to teh Zeta platform for the Camaro, so it will look identical to the concept.

[enzl]

Don't forget amount the subtle, yet expensive modifications GM is making to teh Zeta platform for the Camaro, so it will look identical to the concept.

Umm. It's a Camaro. GM should be putting that kind of exceptional effort to make it great.

Let's not have 'em break an arm patting themselves on the back, yet.

When marketshare rises, then they'll be worried. Until then, GM's renaissance is in it's infancy.

[BuddyP]

No matter how good BuddyP says a friend of his says someone at his office says one of the GM exec says Jeremy Anwyl says Michelle Krebs's paraphrases some namelss Honda exec says GM's "surfaces" are, I just can't see Honda being "worried as hell" about the Acadia, Outlook, etc. Let alone say it in public.

I would like to know exactly what GM is doing to their "surfaces" that the Japanese are so in awe of but absolutely refuse even to try.

BuddyP, can you get the header information from the email? Perhaps there is some information in there that could trace it back.

Like Camino said, I have the heading of the email and who it came from. There is more to the email and was asked not to post anything else. I have to respect my source... in other words, I don't want to bite that hand that feeds me. This is no "friend of a friend of a friend who heard that blah blah blah". The guy got the email, sent from a "upper" person at GM with a short last name (that's as far as I'll go) and sent it to me. All info I've posted on this site came true, I have yet to post any "rumors". I posted about a convertable Camaro already being complete at the time of the Camaro coupe release a year ago, I posted about a Silverado SS with "427" badges on it several months before it was released at SEMA. I posted about the silverado haveing body moldings within the fenders when camo's spy shots were just starting to pop up.

How much of the conversation with the Honda exec is true I can't tell you, I can only say that the email is real, and was also confirmed by another person in this topic on the 2nd page.

If I knew this post was going to create so much contraversy I wouldn't have even posted it.

[C.H.U.D.]

If I knew this post was going to create so much contraversy I wouldn't have even posted it.

There's nothing wrong with stirring the $h! a little if the subject has basis in reality.