Toyota’s ultra-low-cost car threatens ‘big three’

[Variance]

Toyota’s ultra-low-cost car threatens ‘big three’

Toyota, the world’s second largest carmaker by sales, is working on a radically different approach to car design, development and manufacturing in an attempt to come up with an ultra-low-cost car, according to its president.

“The focus is on low-cost technology,” said Katsuaki Watanabe, in an interview with the Financial Times. “Everything from design to production methods will be radically changed and we are thinking of a really ultra-low-cost way of designing, using ultra-low-cost materials, even developing new materials if necessary.”

The move comes as Toyota is this year set to overtake General Motors as the world’s largest carmaker and follows last week’s news that the group recalled 500,000 vehicles in the US after a year of record recalls. Mr Watanabe conceded the need to re- double efforts to improve quality.

Edmunds Straightline

[sciguy_0504]

Triple or quadruple efforts to improve quality would be more like it.

[Robert Hall]

low-cost materials...hmmm...maybe styrofoam for interior trim and plywood or tinfoil for exterior panels?

[Drew Dowdell]

Toyota is going retro.... they're going to bring back the Trabant!

[Dragon]

hmm, wonder if this could hurt them in the end. get even more people on the road, increasing demand for gas, prices go up, people can't afford such nice cars because of the extra money they spend on gas, so they start buying cheaper cars.

[ZL-1]

Toyota is going retro.... they're going to bring back the Trabant!

In a way, yes: offer the most basic car for the money. It's like Renault and the Logan.

[Sixty8panther]

Great... a "CAMLLE for POOL PEOPLE"

The Trabant was the equivelant of a $5 BJ from a AIDS riddled

hooker... if you call that good "bang for the buck" then you've

never seen, or ridden in one. This will most likely be similar.

So they're spending money on developing new materials but this

is going to save them money....? Great logic.

[balthazar]

low-cost materials...hmmm...maybe styrofoam for interior trim and plywood or tinfoil for exterior panels?

Have you priced plywood lately?

This is nearly exactly what I proposed here last summer; the Minimalist Kar. Something without power tire valve caps & 58 airbags, a back-to-basics commuter small car that's economical and affordable- and sorry folks! without NNNAAVV.

IF toyota manages to bring this to market- it would do far more targeting of the koreans... but the way the media always sees it; everything new is only bad news for the domestics. More predictable dumbassedness.

[loki]

cardboard vehicles.. like the furniture? sounds like making a motorcycle on 4 wheels.

[haypops]

I think it was Plymouth that was working on this some years ago (post neon perhaps?) The color was to be included in the plastic exterior panels, no sheen, symmetrical doors and fenders so left and right would be interchangeable, etc.

Also isn't there a whole auto industry in South Africa based on old tooling for previous generation Peugeot's and other vehicles?

[siegen]

[DetroitNut90]

I thought Scion was supposed to fill this role?

[ToniCipriani]

Anyone remember that spyshot with duct-tape and cardboard, and it was identified to belong to Toyota? Maybe that was the production vehicle.

Edit: This was what I was talking about:

Edited January 23, 2007 by ToniCipriani

[Robert Hall]

Something like this makes sense for Toyota for developing countries....India, countries in Africa, rural China, etc..

[pow]

Cool. Maybe something like this...

Or...

Or...

The Model T... oyota. The world needs more iconic cars for all people... something that's reasonably priced but looks good everywhere... i.e. MINI and Prius.

[toyoguy]

IF toyota manages to bring this to market- it would do far more targeting of the koreans... but the way the media always sees it; everything new is only bad news for the domestics. More predictable dumbassedness.

No, Toyota said this months ago as reported by the WSJ. They are looking for ways to trim cost off production and believe there is a large percentage of waste.

[thegriffon]

In a way, yes: offer the most basic car for the money. It's like Renault and the Logan.

Toyota has been caught off-guard by the Logan's success. This is a knee-jerk reaction after Toyota initially said they had no interest selling such cheap cars. As for threatening the big three—GM do Brasil is already working on something and has some experience in the market requirements. If you're wondering how cheap the Logan is, it's very cheap. In Poland a B-segment Chevy Aveo or Skoda Fabia 1.2 L sedan costs aroiund 37 000 zl before incentives. A 1.4 l Astra Classic sedan sells for 47 000 zl, and a the larger 1.4 L Chevrolet Lacetti for just over 42 000 zl. The 1.4 L Dacia Logan, the same size as an Astra Classic? 28 000 zl, a little less than a 800cc Chevrolet Spark micro car. Toyota's cheapest sedan is the 1.4 L Corolla, no bigger than the Logan, which costs a whopping 59 500 zl, more than twice as much as the Logan, and their cheapest car is the Czech-made Aygo, for which a 1.0 L 3-door a little bigger than the 5-door Spark sells for 34 000 zl. In most markets Toyota doesn't even try to compete on price. They sell smaller cars for higher prices and the media pretends they don't. An A-segment Yaris sells for more than a near C-segment Opel Corsa.

[Intrepidation]

Cool. Maybe something like this...

The Atom is awseome.

So...low cost materials? Cheap Cheap cars? I got it...here's what it'll look like:

More recalls here we come!

[Robert Hall]

I'd love to drive an Atom... a week with one in the summer in eastern Ohio (location of my favorite back roads) would be quite the experience, I think...(have to watch out for the horsepoo, though).

[Guest YellowJacket894]

Is Toyota that desparate to become some ungodly world power? They're pathetic.

I just sit here and think of how sad it is. It's like Toyota's true number one mission is to become a legal monopoly from hell and this time our government can't stop it like they did with AT&T. Hope that all the recalls will make Toyota's image rust away like a '82 K-Car in a Nova Scotia junkyard.

I bet this car will make all recent DCX interiors seem as if they were pulled from a fleet of Rolls Royces.

The Trabant was the equivelant of a $5 BJ from a AIDS riddled hooker.

:rotflmao:

Nah. That's not it. Look at the grille. It's a pre-Toyota Subaru.

[Satty]

Chrysler CCV anyone?

I think that for $6k the CCV would be a pretty good commuter car or a good first car for a 16yo, if they could meet safety requirements.

[Sixty8panther]

Toyota’s ultra-low-cost car threatens ‘big three’

Gotta lovethat title by the way... now even an imaginary, hypothetical car that

might or MIGHT NOT come into existance years from now THREATENS detroit.

Disgusting how much Toyota Co$k the Media loves to swallow...

YJ894: I bet this car will make all recent DCX interiors seem as if they were pulled from a fleet of Rolls Royces.

That's an insult to DCX. post WWII R.R. are pieces of #$%^&*

[RBB]

I see they've already started reducing costs on the interior of the new Camry.

-RBB

Edited January 23, 2007 by RBB

[csaba1218]

Toyota is going retro.... they're going to bring back the Trabant!

Haha My thought exactly what a POS these were i lived in eastern europe for years and these things were everywhere they sound even worse than they look.

[Sixty8panther]

I see they've already started reducing costs on the interior of the new Camry.

-RBB

ZIIII!II!!!!11II!!I!11IINNNGGG!!!!

But don't you mean ther entire Toyota lineup?

[Flybrian]

A low-cost back-to-basics car makes absolutely zero sense in this country.

With cars outnumbering licensed drivers 1.2:1 combined with the overflowing market of ridiculously cheap, good-quality used automobiles, why buy some utilitarian junk? We don't need another Model T or Beetle because we are already on the road. You can't turn around without finding a reasonably-priced vehicle somewhere, especially one with the creature comforts and power demanded by most American drivers.

Take this mythical price figure of $5000 for a no-frills car.

1992 Olds Ninety-Eight - 46k - $2100

1999 Olds Alero - 68k - $3500

2003 Ford Taurus - 105k - $4999

1999 Dodge Ram Van - 64k - $4750

1998 Ford Ranger - 85k - $4200

1991 Mazda B2200 - 118k - $1995

1992 Ford Windstar - 114k - $1900

1994 Chrysler Concorde - 98k - $1895

1988 Toyota Celica GT 'vert - 156k - $1800

A five minute browse on Craigslist that renders sports cars, small cars, large cars, family cars, work cars. If the need for a warranty concerns you so, buy a Korean car with 10/100k. And of all those above, by the way, most have power windows, power mirrors, and a CD player. Some have more. All have a/c.

[Robert Hall]

A low-cost back-to-basics car makes absolutely zero sense in this country.

With cars outnumbering licensed drivers 1.2:1 combined with the overflowing market of ridiculously cheap, good-quality used automobiles, why buy some utilitarian junk? We don't need another Model T or Beetle because we are already on the road. You can't turn around without finding a reasonably-priced vehicle somewhere, especially one with the creature comforts and power demanded by most American drivers.

<snip>

The problem with those choices is those are all used cars with lots of mileage on most.... what Toyota is talking about is cheap, reliable new cars, not used cars..

The cheap new car is that market niche Hyundai used to gain traction in the US...

[FAPTurbo]

Plenty of people would have a crappy, new car... because, it's 'new.' A used car doesn't have that new car smell, and I guess people will crave that.

This is good for other parts of the world... but I doubt it'll do well in North America, simply because Yaris' and Scions plus vehicles like the Aveo, etc. are already pretty cheap.

If you can't afford small vehicles like the Aveo or Yaris already or used ones, how the hell will you be able to afford the price of gas and insurance?

[Flybrian]

That's also the thing. No car is expensive. Insurance is.

[Robert Hall]

Plenty of people would have a crappy, new car... because, it's 'new.' A used car doesn't have that new car smell, and I guess people will crave that.

Right..that's quite understandable...I certainly wouldn't buy a used car with 100k miles when I could afford a cheap new car, that's just common sense. The only way I could trust a car with 100k miles to be reliable is if I put those miles on it myself..

[Bizz]

low-cost materials...hmmm...maybe styrofoam for interior trim and plywood or tinfoil for exterior panels?

obviously, it would be nothing like that. but, this announcement does explain where toyota engine development has been heading the past couple of years. toyota has been quietly developing a radically new type of engine architecture. this "new tech" family of engines will employ an "overhead aperature" (OHA) design utilizing "shove-sticks" to operate the aperatures that allow the air/fuel mixture and exhaust gases to pass through the combustion chamber. even though these engines are only in their preliminary testing stages, they promise to be smaller, be less expensive to produce, and produce more torque at lower rpms than the older, contemporary overhead cam (OHC) engines while delivering the same or better fuel efficiency.

[ZL-1]

Toyota has been caught off-guard by the Logan's success. This is a knee-jerk reaction after Toyota initially said they had no interest selling such cheap cars. As for threatening the big three—GM do Brasil is already working on something and has some experience in the market requirements. If you're wondering how cheap the Logan is, it's very cheap. In Poland a B-segment Chevy Aveo or Skoda Fabia 1.2 L sedan costs aroiund 37 000 zl before incentives. A 1.4 l Astra Classic sedan sells for 47 000 zl, and a the larger 1.4 L Chevrolet Lacetti for just over 42 000 zl. The 1.4 L Dacia Logan, the same size as an Astra Classic? 28 000 zl, a little less than a 800cc Chevrolet Spark micro car. Toyota's cheapest sedan is the 1.4 L Corolla, no bigger than the Logan, which costs a whopping 59 500 zl, more than twice as much as the Logan, and their cheapest car is the Czech-made Aygo, for which a 1.0 L 3-door a little bigger than the 5-door Spark sells for 34 000 zl. In most markets Toyota doesn't even try to compete on price. They sell smaller cars for higher prices and the media pretends they don't. An A-segment Yaris sells for more than a near C-segment Opel Corsa.

Renault deserves loads of respect for doing the Logan.

GM do Brasil has both the Chevrolet Celta and the Chevrolet Classic (which I believe is a previous-gen 3 body Corsa) right now. Will the successors to those two be sold globally?

[Intrepidation]

A low-cost back-to-basics car makes absolutely zero sense in this country.

With cars outnumbering licensed drivers 1.2:1 combined with the overflowing market of ridiculously cheap, good-quality used automobiles, why buy some utilitarian junk? We don't need another Model T or Beetle because we are already on the road. You can't turn around without finding a reasonably-priced vehicle somewhere, especially one with the creature comforts and power demanded by most American drivers.

Take this mythical price figure of $5000 for a no-frills car.

1992 Olds Ninety-Eight - 46k - $2100

1999 Olds Alero - 68k - $3500

2003 Ford Taurus - 105k - $4999

1999 Dodge Ram Van - 64k - $4750

1998 Ford Ranger - 85k - $4200

1991 Mazda B2200 - 118k - $1995

1992 Ford Windstar - 114k - $1900

1994 Chrysler Concorde - 98k - $1895

1988 Toyota Celica GT 'vert - 156k - $1800

A five minute browse on Craigslist that renders sports cars, small cars, large cars, family cars, work cars. If the need for a warranty concerns you so, buy a Korean car with 10/100k. And of all those above, by the way, most have power windows, power mirrors, and a CD player. Some have more. All have a/c.

2000 Dodge Intrepid.....$2100....

[Sixty8panther]

Excellent point Fly.

[Satty]

1992 Olds Ninety-Eight - 46k - $2100

1999 Olds Alero - 68k - $3500

2003 Ford Taurus - 105k - $4999

1999 Dodge Ram Van - 64k - $4750

1998 Ford Ranger - 85k - $4200

1991 Mazda B2200 - 118k - $1995

1992 Ford Windstar - 114k - $1900

1994 Chrysler Concorde - 98k - $1895

1988 Toyota Celica GT 'vert - 156k - $1800

Except the two Oldsmobiles, I wouldn't trust any of those to go too much longer without major work. Especially the Taurus, Windstar, Concorde and the Intrepid Dodgefan suggests because, frankly, transmissions are expensive to replace. The '92 Olds is, lets face it, a '92 Olds, not many people would buy one unless it was one of their last options. The Alero wouldn't be a bad buy. But if someone (anyone) brought a small, cheap commuter car (like the Smart, only less $$ or like the CCV with a little more of an interior) they could do very well, not only in big cities but also amongst that parents of younger people who buy their children cars when they turn 16. The kids may not like it, but the parents wouldn't be concerned with major repairs.

[z28luvr01]

obviously, it would be nothing like that. but, this announcement does explain where toyota engine development has been heading the past couple of years. toyota has been quietly developing a radically new type of engine architecture. this "new tech" family of engines will employ an "overhead aperature" (OHA) design utilizing "shove-sticks" to operate the aperatures that allow the air/fuel mixture and exhaust gases to pass through the combustion chamber. even though these engines are only in their preliminary testing stages, they promise to be smaller, be less expensive to produce, and produce more torque at lower rpms than the older, contemporary overhead cam (OHC) engines while delivering the same or better fuel efficiency.

sir, you are hilarious! Shove-sticks :rotflmao:

A low cost car that has all the creature comforts of my bicycle will get no interest from me. Assuming its reliabile, efficient, and crash-worthy, it will be an interesting option for people who view cars as a necessary evil, or those who use them just for commuting in the city or from home to the train station or what-have-you. Either of those groups would be inclined to spend as little on a car as possible.

[pow]

A low-cost back-to-basics car makes absolutely zero sense in this country.

With cars outnumbering licensed drivers 1.2:1 combined with the overflowing market of ridiculously cheap, good-quality used automobiles, why buy some utilitarian junk? We don't need another Model T or Beetle because we are already on the road. You can't turn around without finding a reasonably-priced vehicle somewhere, especially one with the creature comforts and power demanded by most American drivers.

Take this mythical price figure of $5000 for a no-frills car.

1992 Olds Ninety-Eight - 46k - $2100

1999 Olds Alero - 68k - $3500

2003 Ford Taurus - 105k - $4999

1999 Dodge Ram Van - 64k - $4750

1998 Ford Ranger - 85k - $4200

1991 Mazda B2200 - 118k - $1995

1992 Ford Windstar - 114k - $1900

1994 Chrysler Concorde - 98k - $1895

1988 Toyota Celica GT 'vert - 156k - $1800

A five minute browse on Craigslist that renders sports cars, small cars, large cars, family cars, work cars. If the need for a warranty concerns you so, buy a Korean car with 10/100k. And of all those above, by the way, most have power windows, power mirrors, and a CD player. Some have more. All have a/c.

Most youngsters (the people Toyota are targeting, I assume) wouldn't be caught dead in a Dodge Ram Van. New cars, regardless of how affordable they are, at least can have modern design and cool technology. I mean, yes, you could play your iPod via cassette adapter, but.... you know.

[FAPTurbo]

"shove-sticks

:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

[Robert Hall]

Except the two Oldsmobiles, I wouldn't trust any of those to go too much longer without major work. Especially the Taurus, Windstar, Concorde and the Intrepid Dodgefan suggests because, frankly, transmissions are expensive to replace. The '92 Olds is, lets face it, a '92 Olds, not many people would buy one unless it was one of their last options. The Alero wouldn't be a bad buy. But if someone (anyone) brought a small, cheap commuter car (like the Smart, only less $$ or like the CCV with a little more of an interior) they could do very well, not only in big cities but also amongst that parents of younger people who buy their children cars when they turn 16. The kids may not like it, but the parents wouldn't be concerned with major repairs.

Exactly... buying used cars with a lot of miles is buying someone elses problems, IMHO.. money pits..

[FAPTurbo]

Looking at this again, I think most people would realize they'd be better served with a used Civic.

[gm4life]

All Toyota is doing is talking. Talk. Talk. Talk. Is something anyone can do it is easy. Following through on the other hand isn't... Toyota said they would overtake GM in 2006 didn't happen now did it? Anyone here think they will do it in 2007? With the new products GM has coming out I doubt it. Now the only thing that worries me is the Tundra and Camry. &#036;h&#33; the Camry's interior doesn't even fit together and parts fall off like C&D said in there test drive. Giving the Toyota 5th BEHIND the Saturn Aura... HAHAHA, we all know C&D are forigen car humpers, right? So much for Toyota moving foward. Maybe one step foward and 2 steps back. Lets hope Toyota gets...

Well...

[Sixty8panther]

Don't be ridiculous... obviously Toyota will not be going to

OHV, that's pretty absurd. If anything they'll make a iron

block, flathead, 1bbl carb. inline 4 without an automatic

starter or front brakes.

Or maybe it will be similar to this:

[Paolino]

I thought Scion was supposed to fill this role?

Well, is Scion really filling any role?

[Robert Hall]

Well, is Scion really filling any role?

Scion is supposed to be cheap, young and hip, while Yaris and Corolla fill the cheap and utilitiarian roles...

[Paolino]

Scion is supposed to be cheap, young and hip, while Yaris and Corolla fill the cheap and utilitiarian roles...

I was being facetious.