Is it time to give up on the Iron Duke?

[occupant]

I found a 1992 Cadillac 4.9L PFI V8 to transplant into the $300 Celebrity I bought which just isn't going to run right. Water in the oil, oil in the water, backfiring when cold, damn near impossible to start even with starting fluid, and I'm thinking with a free 200hp engine, why bother messing with the stock motor? The first issue is getting the engine home from 10 miles away. The tailgate is jammed on the Suburban and it won't fit in the doors or through the window. So I'd either need the guy to bring it to me, or else rent a trailer. In either case I need to buy an engine crane, engine stand, jackstands, and a good solid floor jack.

I've done some checking around and I've been a member of a-body.net to see that it can be done. The biggest problems, in order, are as follows:

1) It'll take a lot of rewiring to get the motor to run in the car, since I have to change the 1989 Celebrity computer for a 1992 DeVille computer or else the PFI system will NOT work.

2) The transmission will bolt to the engine and the torque converter and flywheel are essentially the same. The problem here is some metal has to be removed from the back of the engine to allow the 125C transmission to fit completely. The transmission requires no modifications. The axles will still work. The steering will still work.

3) I may have to cut a portion of the Celebrity's engine cradle to allow clearance for accessory belts and pulleys for the power steering, AC compressor, and the water pump.

4) I will have to have motor mounts fabricated to attach the engine to the frame/cradle.

5) I am worried the 158,000 miles 125C transmission won't be powerful enough, and I'd have to go with a 4T60E transmission from a 1992 DeVille. Best scenario is the 125C will handle it for awhile. Good scenario is I find a cheap non-running 1992 DeVille with a good transmission, then I have to fabricate transmission mounts and get a set of V6/4T60 axles if they don't match up to the stock ones. Worst scenario is that I have to buy a used or rebuilt 4T60E and do the same fabrication.

6) I might need to replace the front struts, but I'm thinking the weight difference between the two engines is 70lbs, and might not be needed. If I have to put in a 4T60E, the difference becomes 100lbs, still not TOO much.

So what do you think? Drop in the V8, or fix the 4-cylinder? Otherwise I'm putting the V8 up for sale.

EDIT: it was gone, I missed it by 10 minutes. Suckage...

But I'm STILL going to try and find a 4.9 donor car and do this swap anyway. Why spend money on the 2.5 if I can put in a 4.9?

Edited January 14, 2007 by occupant

[loki]

sounds awesome....

[daves87rs]

Sweet! That would make it fun to drive..

[Intrepidation]

4.9 for sure, forget the 4-banger

[Bryan]

no offense, but that's alot of work and it sounds like alot of money, why not take the effort and money and get somethin else? or is this just a celebrity you're trying to have fun with?

[occupant]

Shouldn't be a lot of money. A lot of the parts needed for the conversion are GM stock parts for other vehicles. Grand Prixs, Fieros, Park Avenues, etc... If I can't find them in junkyards I can still buy new parts from a GM dealer. I also managed to locate and save to my computer, 15 pages of a swap article describing how a Cadillac 4.9 engine was dropped in a Citation. The motor and transmission mounts came from other GM vehicles and only one of them needed a hole drilled into it to accept the bracket and bolt onto the cradle. He used a 1988 Celebrity cradle in the Citation. Much of his wiring harness came from that '88. I'm already working with an '89 Celebrity, so I can use my own cradle provided it's still in good condition (Texas car, should be fine)

The grand total of parts he purchased (without the engine itself) was about $600. That's including coolant, oil, plugs, wires, belts, electric fans, everything! The most expensive thing he did was have custom-length CV axles made. Everything else came from a Celebrity parts car or the donor Cadillac.

That or I could put in a 3800NA or 3800SC motor, also not requiring a whole lot of modifications other than the wiring harness. The 3.8 engine was used in Ciera and Century A-bodies from 1985-1988, so there shouldn't be much that I can't get either at a junkyard or by ordering parts at NAPA or whatever for say, a 1988 Century with the 3.8. Even the computer harness will plug right in. The biggest "modification" I'd have to make to the car would be to swap the transmission gear indicator from PRND21 to PRN@D21 so I can tell what gear I'm in. It would be the easier swap to do, and knowing the Cadillac aluminum engine's reliability record, it might also be the more dependable swap.

My other option is to find a running 2.5L engine or fix the one in there. I have a new head, but it might be damaged. Won't know until I pull it off. I'll try and tackle that sometime this month. I want to have this car running and driving and inspected and tagged ASAP so I can stop driving the 9mpg Suburban everywhere when we don't need more than 6 seatbelts.

[Bryan]

the caddy engine would be awesome. the 3.8 would make it the way it really should be. and the 2.5 would be everything it never should have been. i thot those 3.8s were amongst the worst of the worst?

[occupant]

Tore down the top end of the motor a couple weeks back. Very gooey inside. I'll send it to the machine shop as soon as I have the $60 to pay for the resurfacing, cleaning, and valve job.