Another reason to dislike japanese car companies...

[GMman]

Some light reading...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6487322

[Cory Wolfe]

I love my Japanese built Millenia.

[Intrepidation]

Something needs to be done about these issues for sure, but I doubt the Bush administration will do anything..unless it involves oil or blowing something up.

[ocnblu]

This is a clear case of good v. evil, at least for me. I'm going to stick up for my country.

[CSpec]

This is a clear case of good v. evil, at least for me. I'm going to stick up for my country.

How are strangers in Detroit better than strangers in Japan? Food for thought.

[Intrepidation]

How are strangers in Detroit better than strangers in Japan? Food for thought.

The strangers in Detroit benefit our economy.

[ShadowDog]

Bush:

"I've f@#ked things up fo y'all. You need to fix it yerselves."

Big-3:

"...?!"

Edited January 14, 2007 by ShadowDog

[GMman]

How are strangers in Detroit better than strangers in Japan? Food for thought.

The strangers in japan are better for japan. They are working to make their country better.

The strangers here in America (at least some of them) seem to think that none of this matters.

If japan is cheating so that they have an unfair advantage over American car companies, that pisses me off. If our government doesn't help the domestic auto industry level the playing field, then they suck.

[Cory Wolfe]

I still love my Japanese built Millenia.

[ocnblu]

Thanks for the update.

[z28luvr01]

Soon, this country will consist of nothing but upper management, tradesmen, and real estate agents selling our land to foreign owned companies. For the President who actually has the balls to take action on this, I will personally add his head to Mount Rushmore.

[Camino LS6]

I think you know where I stand on this.

Any doubts, check my ebay listing for trade qualifications. :AH-HA_wink:

[GMman]

I still love my Japanese built Millenia.

To each his own, but you need to be thankful that you live in a country where you can afford to drive your millenia.

[CSpec]

To each his own, but you need to be thankful that you live in a country where you can afford to drive your millenia.

There lies the logical fallacy. Imports make everyone richer, except the small amount of workers who are displaced because they were uncompetitive in that specific industry.

[balthazar]

The number of displaced workers is still far greater than the number of foreign-company hires. I believe the figure is in the 100,000s. Without some sort of limits in place, entire (non-automotive) industries have completely vanished. This has --if at all-- only made a handful of people richer- not the average person nor the displaced worker.

How has imports made "everyone" (namely me) richer ??

[ZL-1]

I'd question why at least some people in Washington favour a strong dollar policy at all costs when the US has been running twin deficits for most of the last 2 or 3 decades... Isn't that unfair manupulation of currency markets as well? Shouldn't free currency markets reflect only trade deficits/surpluses and interest rate differencials?

[GMman]

If anyone here thinks that japanese car companies would not like to see GM and Ford go away, you're kidding yourself. toyota is very concerned about overtaking GM as the world's largest automaker. The point of the article I posted the link to is that japan is 'cheating' so that they have an unfair advantage. So what I see is japanese companies posting profits not because of a superior product but because of deceit.

I totally reject the notion that japanese companies "assembling" cars here makes very many Americans richer. They do provide jobs by doing that, but why don't they move their headquarters or base of operations to the USA? The profits are being sent back to japan. They want to portray themselves as 'American' by saying a car was assembled in the USA (usually of japanese made parts), but the bulk of the profits go right back to japan.

I'm not economist or statistician, but I bet GM and Ford have made more Americans "richer" than all the japanese car companies combined.

I like that competition from japanese car companies make American car companies better. I just don't like unfair and deceitful practices that hurt American companies. How can anybody defend that???

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, there's nothing wrong with Japan's government trying help out its corporations. It's our government that makes it so easy for them to make a profit, all while making it harder on our corporations. Not to mention the greedy UAW. Who are we blaming here? You can't blame the competitors themselves. I don't like the original thought behind this thread. Another reason to dislike Japanese car companies. Say what? Why do you even hate them in the first place? Holding some grudge against foreign cars and only buying certain vehicles because they're domestic, is no less retarded than buying vehicles because they aren't domestic. You should buy what you like, whether it's American, Japanese, German, etc. I question the reasoning behind some people's buying intentions.

[CARBIZ]

If I buy a $20 toaster that is made in China, I doubt our way of life will come crashing down. However, if I buy a $25k car that is assembled here, 3/4 of the parts are shipped from Japan, and most of the high value-added jobs (engineers, metalurgists, chemists, etc) are in Japan, and all of the profits and all of the patents and technology are in Japan - well, that is a far different matter in my mind.

Since Ford is in death throes and GM is barely out of the Chronic Care Ward, what would happen to our industrial/technological base if both GM and Ford went down or were bought out by foreign interests? We aren't talking about a few $120 shoes being made in Taiwan.

Think about who then owns the technology. How would Japan's Universities and R&D centers benefit from the total collapse of Detroit-based manufacturers?

The great thing about our democracies is that we have freedom of choice. I can choose to buy a T-shirt made in Canada or made in Brazil, just like I can choose what make of vehicle I drive, but with that choice also comes a little responsiblity. If I don't give a damn about my neighbor having a job, that is my perogative, too.

We are getting soft and fat in the West. I am beginning to get more cynical with age and believe we are getting what we deserve, if we are too stupid to see there are dire consequences of loving all things imported.

[Intrepidation]

As you guys know already, I have no problems with the thought of buying a foreign car, or any car, if it's a car I desire. The problem I have is the manipulation of the profits Japan Inc. does, plus the fact that they set limitations on what domestics can import into their lands while they can sell whatever they want over here. The government has a lot ot be blamed about too, what with their total obliviousness to soaring health care costs, and their refusal to level the playing field as far as trade goes. Just you watch: if our trade regulations were as strict as Japan's, there'd be a lot less Toyotas on the street. Of course if Japan and these other markets had open trade like we do then I wouldn't have a problem either. And to to top it off, our incompetent government, led by a man who can't speak or spell, and backed up by a man who mistakes people for small birds, doesn't give a $h!. They have yet to work on health care issues or trade issues or anything that actually matters. All they care about is oil and blowing $h! up in the middle east under the guise of "anti-terrorism".

Edited January 15, 2007 by Dodgefan

[CSpec]

The number of displaced workers is still far greater than the number of foreign-company hires. I believe the figure is in the 100,000s. Without some sort of limits in place, entire (non-automotive) industries have completely vanished. This has --if at all-- only made a handful of people richer- not the average person nor the displaced worker.

How has imports made "everyone" (namely me) richer ??

Does anyone miss those vanquished industries? They disappeared because they were uncompetitive with foreign competition, meaning the imported goods were cheaper. We have more goods at a lower price today than ever, and after some grumbling for a little by the displaced workers while in frictional unemployment, the country was made better off. Does anyone care that almost no clothing is made in the US anymore? It makes everyone better off, because we get the clothing at a lower price. Does anyone bemoan the loss of textile jobs anymore?

Remember when steel jobs were going fast in the 80s? The government instituted protectionist policies to save those jobs, but studies showed that for every job that was "saved", 3 other American jobs were lost. These policies are all shortsighted and exist only to delay the unpleasantness of frictional unemployment.

[balthazar]

>>"Does anyone miss those vanquished industries?"<<

I sure as &#036;h&#33; do.

>>"They disappeared because they were uncompetitive with foreign competition, meaning the imported goods were cheaper."<<

Losing an industry because another country's labor pool works 12-hr days, 7-days a week for 20-cents an hour is not exactly being uncompetitive- it's having your retail knees knocked out from under you with slave labor. There is no competition for that unless you advocate the US adopt 3rd world labor practices. And why anyone would want to support those industries' practices over a dollar, I have no idea.

>>"We have more goods at a lower price today than ever, and after some grumbling for a little by the displaced workers while in frictional unemployment, the country was made better off."<<

Please tell me you're being facetious. For a lot of people (tho perhaps not enough), price is far from the only criteria for evaluating being "better off". For many people, the abhorrant quality is something too huge to overlook in order to save 2 bucks. Work on your own car? Use Chinese tools to 'save a buck or two'? Yeah- I've made that mistake, too. 3 broken pieces in a 3-yr old Husky (chinese) metric ratchet set. 0 broken pieces in a 20+ yr old MAC (US) SAE ratchet set. Never again.

>>"Does anyone care that almost no clothing is made in the US anymore?"<<

I do. I've sifted thru the bagged socks in Target until I found a brand marked 'Made in USA'. You haven't, I'm guessing. Further guessing- I'll bet you've poured numerous used crankcase drainings straight into the storm sewer, haven't you? Why bother with taking it somewhere to be recycled when there's so many storm sewers around making life "better", right? What you can't see can't hurt you (or anyone else).

>>"It makes everyone better off, because we get the clothing at a lower price."<<

Have you looked at the quality of clothing recently, esp over time? Worse and worse and worse garbage. You think you saved $5 by buying that $10 t-shirt vs. a $15 t-shirt? Not when you have to buy 7 $10 shirts vs. 4 $15 ones.

I used to get shirts that would last me for years and years, now the sizing is always off, the material is worse quality (tho the tag claims the makeup is the same), the thread has greatly reduced longevity- WTF? Thank God there aren't more components in shirts (well... add buttons- which I've had break in 2 in recent years). Who the hell thinks this is "better"?

Edited January 16, 2007 by balthazar

[Intrepidation]

>>"Does anyone miss those vanquished industries?"<<

I sure as &#036;h&#33; do.

>>"They disappeared because they were uncompetitive with foreign competition, meaning the imported goods were cheaper."<<

Losing an industry because another country's labor pool works 12-hr days, 7-days a week for 20-cents an hour is not exactly being uncompetitive- it's having your retail knees knocked out from under you with slave labor. There is no competition for that unless you advocate the US adopt 3rd world labor practices. And why anyone would want to support those industries' practices over a dollar, I have no idea.

>>"We have more goods at a lower price today than ever, and after some grumbling for a little by the displaced workers while in frictional unemployment, the country was made better off."<<

Please tell me you're being facetious. For a lot of people (tho perhaps not enough), price is far from the only criteria for evaluating being "better off". For many people, the abhorrant quality is something too huge to overlook in order to save 2 bucks. Work on your own car? Use Chinese tools to 'save a buck or two'? Yeah- I've made that mistake, too. 3 broken pieces in a 3-yr old Husky (chinese) metric ratchet set. 0 broken pieces in a 20+ yr old MAC (US) SAE ratchet set. Never again.

>>"Does anyone care that almost no clothing is made in the US anymore?"<<

I do. I've sifted thru the bagged socks in Target until I found a brand marked 'Made in USA'. You haven't, I'm guessing. Further guessing- I'll bet you've poured numerous used crankcase drainings straight into the storm sewer, haven't you? Why bother with taking it somewhere to be recycled when there's so many storm sewers around making life "better", right? What you can't see can't hurt you (or anyone else).

>>"It makes everyone better off, because we get the clothing at a lower price."<<

Have you looked at the quality of clothing recently, esp over time? Worse and worse and worse garbage. You think you saved $5 by buying that $10 t-shirt vs. a $15 t-shirt? Not when you have to buy 7 $10 shirts vs. 4 $15 ones.

I used to get shirts that would last me for years and years, now the sizing is always off, the material is worse quality (tho the tag claims the makeup is the same), the thread has greatly reduced longevity- WTF? Thank God there aren't more components in shirts (well... add buttons- which I've had break in 2 in recent years). Who the hell thinks this is "better"?

Quoted for Truth.

[GMman]

Well, there's nothing wrong with Japan's government trying help out its corporations. It's our government that makes it so easy for them to make a profit, all while making it harder on our corporations. Not to mention the greedy UAW. Who are we blaming here? You can't blame the competitors themselves. I don't like the original thought behind this thread. Another reason to dislike Japanese car companies. Say what? Why do you even hate them in the first place? Holding some grudge against foreign cars and only buying certain vehicles because they're domestic, is no less retarded than buying vehicles because they aren't domestic. You should buy what you like, whether it's American, Japanese, German, etc. I question the reasoning behind some people's buying intentions.

just in case you didn't open the link and read it, here is a little bit:

The automakers have also sought support on trade, arguing that Japan has artificially weakened the yen, allowing Japanese automakers to price their vehicles more aggressively in the United States and offer more options. Last year, GM's chief economist told the House Ways and Means Committee that this alleged currency manipulation gave Japanese automakers a "subsidized" cost advantage of between $3,000 for a small car to $12,000 for a luxury SUV. Conversely, that cost advantage acts as a "tax" on U.S. cars sold in Japan, automakers say.

I'm not sure if you're missing the point on purpose or have your head shoved so far up your milliena's tailpipe that you can't understand what this article is talking about. What's retarded is not giving a &#036;h&#33; that American car companies are getting bent over by some japanese companies and for some reason this is being allowed to happen.

[daves87rs]

>>"Does anyone miss those vanquished industries?"<<

I sure as &#036;h&#33; do.

>>"They disappeared because they were uncompetitive with foreign competition, meaning the imported goods were cheaper."<<

Losing an industry because another country's labor pool works 12-hr days, 7-days a week for 20-cents an hour is not exactly being uncompetitive- it's having your retail knees knocked out from under you with slave labor. There is no competition for that unless you advocate the US adopt 3rd world labor practices. And why anyone would want to support those industries' practices over a dollar, I have no idea.

>>"We have more goods at a lower price today than ever, and after some grumbling for a little by the displaced workers while in frictional unemployment, the country was made better off."<<

Please tell me you're being facetious. For a lot of people (tho perhaps not enough), price is far from the only criteria for evaluating being "better off". For many people, the abhorrant quality is something too huge to overlook in order to save 2 bucks. Work on your own car? Use Chinese tools to 'save a buck or two'? Yeah- I've made that mistake, too. 3 broken pieces in a 3-yr old Husky (chinese) metric ratchet set. 0 broken pieces in a 20+ yr old MAC (US) SAE ratchet set. Never again.

>>"Does anyone care that almost no clothing is made in the US anymore?"<<

I do. I've sifted thru the bagged socks in Target until I found a brand marked 'Made in USA'. You haven't, I'm guessing. Further guessing- I'll bet you've poured numerous used crankcase drainings straight into the storm sewer, haven't you? Why bother with taking it somewhere to be recycled when there's so many storm sewers around making life "better", right? What you can't see can't hurt you (or anyone else).

>>"It makes everyone better off, because we get the clothing at a lower price."<<

Have you looked at the quality of clothing recently, esp over time? Worse and worse and worse garbage. You think you saved $5 by buying that $10 t-shirt vs. a $15 t-shirt? Not when you have to buy 7 $10 shirts vs. 4 $15 ones.

I used to get shirts that would last me for years and years, now the sizing is always off, the material is worse quality (tho the tag claims the makeup is the same), the thread has greatly reduced longevity- WTF? Thank God there aren't more components in shirts (well... add buttons- which I've had break in 2 in recent years). Who the hell thinks this is "better"?

Quoted for Truth-and well said.

We have to start caring-because no one else will..

[CSpec]

Quoted for Truth-and well said.

We have to start caring-because no one else will..

Hardly the truth, I will rebut in the morning.

[Intrepidation]

Hardly the truth, I will rebut in the morning.

So you believe it's OK to let them import and much as they want but the domestics can't do vise vera?

[Cory Wolfe]

just in case you didn't open the link and read it, here is a little bit:

The automakers have also sought support on trade, arguing that Japan has artificially weakened the yen, allowing Japanese automakers to price their vehicles more aggressively in the United States and offer more options. Last year, GM's chief economist told the House Ways and Means Committee that this alleged currency manipulation gave Japanese automakers a "subsidized" cost advantage of between $3,000 for a small car to $12,000 for a luxury SUV. Conversely, that cost advantage acts as a "tax" on U.S. cars sold in Japan, automakers say.

I'm not sure if you're missing the point on purpose or have your head shoved so far up your milliena's tailpipe that you can't understand what this article is talking about. What's retarded is not giving a &#036;h&#33; that American car companies are getting bent over by some japanese companies and for some reason this is being allowed to happen.

I read it and I get the point. Is it unfair? Yes, I'm not questioning that. However, to lay all the blame on the companies themselves? That in itself is manipulation of the truth. Then to dislike them after putting this undeserved blame on them? That's just pure idiocy. If you want to see the real culprit, look no further than the government. Who the hell do you think is letting all this happen? Who's not doing a damn thing about it? Exactly. It just happens to benefit Japanese companies while doing the opposite to Domestic companies. Japan's goverment is doing all it can to ensure its companies can do their best. Is their fault their country cares? Is their fault our country doesn't give a &#036;h&#33; about our companies? f@#k no. I'm sorry, but I'm not the one with my head shoved up my tailpipe.

[Variance]

Just to establish where we stand now: just looking up current values, the Yen has been on the rise and the US Dollar has been on the decline since early December '06.

Yen to the Dollar (Dec '06 to now): 114.98 to 120.36

Dollars to the Yen: .00867077 to .00830841

[Sixty8panther]

Are people f*~king stupid... do they pretend that the Sequoia, Armada, Tundra,

Lexus LS and Infiniti V8 cars and trucks do not exist or are they just &%#$ing

blind...??? How is it that at the end of every single one of these articles is the

same line of bull&#036;h&#33;:

"Detroit Automakers who focus on gas guzzling V8s and big porkish SUVs..."

The Media is f$#ing one of three things in this country:

1. sensationally incorrect

2. biased as a result of payoff$$$ or just our Anti-American culture

3. blatantly stupid

Most of the time it seems to be a combo. of all three.

[CARBIZ]

You are making the assumption that Japan operates under true capitalism and that Toyota, Honda, etc. compete against each other. I doubt that is the case. MITI has a lot of clout in Japan. Banks and corporations bow to its will. Iaccoca talks about this in his first book and there are other resources as well. MITI has been coordinating with the government and the Big Five to hammer the American market for decades now.

Why is it that Japan is the only closed market in the godamned WORLD?

Hell, we sell cars to Russia, China and Saudi F#$ing Arabia, but not to Japan.

ASK YOURSELVES WHY NOT????????????????????

[Sixty8panther]

Perhaps the problem is not that we dropped two-too many atom bombs

on Japan but that we did nto drop enough... but seriously, the Japanese

were at the top of their game in like 1974 even then they were not

great cars but they were CHEAP and economical cars. They have been

resting on their laurels and making absolute junk for the past 20 years

and more and more they offer a poor value and yet their snob-appeal

goes up steadily.

If the car game were a true level playing field GM would be well on their

way to earning their 60% of the marketshare in the USA while Ford &

chrysler would flip-flop since Ford's lineup is more stale & boring than

a plain bagel. (w/ the exception fo the Stang & GT)