Worldwide AIDS map

[the_yellow_dart]

Bigger version

I'm interested to see what Africa will do over the next 20 years. How can a country survive almost 50% of the population dying?

[Paolino]

I think Sicily should be higher--then again, they just prob did the average of the country as a whole. If anything, Sicily probably brought Italy up to its current level.

Africa doesn't surprise me, but what does surprise me is Egypt (and what's the country to the west of it?)

[aaaantoine]

Note the entire Middle Eastern region has the lowest AIDs rate. Muslim states are not so tolerant of sexual infidelity. Food for thought.

[sciguy_0504]

Note the entire Middle Eastern region has the lowest AIDs rate. Muslim states are not so tolerant of sexual infidelity. Food for thought.

How do you explain Osama's 50 brothers and sisters? Muslims can have up to 4 wives, I believe. There is not a lot of immigration/visitation to the Middle East (for obvious reasons, I guess), at least not on the scale of most other parts of the world. Homosexuality/bisexuality is not tolerated at all, either.

I know I'll get bashed for saying this but I have little sympathy for people with HIV/AIDS/STDS.

[Croc]

I know I'll get bashed for saying this but I have little sympathy for people with HIV/AIDS/STDS.

Same. I feel bad though for the people they spread it to.

[ocnblu]

Croc, look at your post again. Does it make any sense? People who get it, get it through behavior, unless they are in utero. Some people don't know they have it. Everyone needs to protect themselves.

[NOS2006]

I know I'll get bashed for saying this but I have little sympathy for people with HIV/AIDS/STDS.

Take rape into account. Does that change matters?

Then, after rape, take into account that many people who contract STDs don't realize it until months later, if ever at all. Then they have unprotected sex and spread it unknowingly.

[capriceman]

"Apathy is Lethal" was just more than just a Campaign.

[trinacriabob]

I think Sicily should be higher--then again, they just prob did the average of the country as a whole. If anything, Sicily probably brought Italy up to its current level.

Why do you say that? Just curious. I didn't realize that there would be much in the way of regional differences. The son of a Sicilian family my parents know died of it, but he and the people he hung around with were shooting up (nauseating to think about it) and that they were making suspicious trips up toward Milan...evidently to get their stuff. The family was, by relative standards, well-heeled.

So, from the map, it looks like Italy and Spain are the randiest countries in Western Europe.

Also, I am surprised Brazil is that low...

Edited January 10, 2007 by trinacriabob

[Cadillacfan]

Building off of OCNs post, we should be sympathetic towards the children in Africa with AIDS/HIV because their parents give it to the children then die leaving them as orphans. It's a huge problem and if you look at statistics, I'm sure you'll find that the majority of people with AIDS are children and adolescents.

Oh.. and I'm sure the numbers in China are highly skewed since the government is known to fudge with the numbers in order for it to appear that there is not much of a problem. Also, they probably only take the rankings of people in the cities by the coast. They most likely left out hundreds of millions of peasants who live inland.

[aaaantoine]

Building off of OCNs post, we should be sympathetic towards the children in Africa with AIDS/HIV because their parents give it to the children then die leaving them as orphans. It's a huge problem and if you look at statistics, I'm sure you'll find that the majority of people with AIDS are children and adolescents.

Agreed, but the chart says "Adult HIV Prevalance". I'm guessing that excludes minors.

[CARBIZ]

If, as the general theory goes, the HIV virus spread out of Africa to Europe in the 1950's, thence to North America in the '70s, it is interesting to note that the Western world got educated and protected themselves early on in the game; otherwise, the picture here would be far, far worse by now. Africa is still in a state of denial. In some villages, aid workers (no pun intended), who are often women, are beaten and accosted for trying to promote condom use. What is happening in Africa is so out of control that there is no hiding what is happening.

The Middle East is another matter. Given the state of political affairs in Pakistan and other Islamic states, very few people would admit to having HIV or AIDS, due to the "shame" and fear of what it could mean. Consequently, many death certificates read different causes of death. I have worked with two Pakistani persons and they have told me that sodomy is fairly rampant in Pakistan because, after all, the women are supposed to be virgins at marriage. Brazil is another country that is quite the dichotomy, really. Roman Catholic on the outside, but all Carnival on the inside. They have a reasonably enlightened respect of the virus and managed to nip it in the bud, so to speak early on, too.

There is another school of thought that is tracing the effects of - get ready for this, acid rain on HIV conversion rates. Yes, acid rain. The theory is based largely on a study of Senegalese prositutes who were all negative, yet had sex with thousands of clients. The theory goes that acid rain leaches selenium out of the soil and a selenium-deficient diet increases the likelihood of contracting the virus when exposed to it. Understand that the virus is very hard to contract - even infected fluid sprayed onto an open cut is unlikely to result in transmission of the virus.

I lost many friends to the disease in the late '80s. That was a truly horrific time. People who contracted it in the mid-80s or earlier were mostly dead within 2-5 years. There were no hopeful treatments until the early '90s. NOw, one of my friends has been asymptomatic for 20 years and is still healthy without taking an medications. In the West, AIDS (not to be confused with the mere possession of the HIV virus) is thought to be a chronic disorder, on the scale of diabetes - provided, of course, you can afford the drug treatments. There are many people who have been on the "cocktail" for 5 years or more and who are perfectly healthy.

Therein lies the danger: there is a whole generation of boys and girls who don't believe HIV will get them. Well, let me tell you guys (and gals) here that if I had a dime for every married man who was showing me pictures of his kids one moment, then playing footsies with me in the whirlpool at the Y 5 minutes later, I could retire. I was (am?) a looker in my day, and have always worked out, so I have been in my fair share of gyms, and I lived in a small, norther town for 11 years. AIDS is everyone's problem. My mother's best friend's husband, after 27 years of marriage, told his wife that he was gay and had been having anonymous sex.

You never know who you are sleeping with, literally.

And for those of you who are so damned unsympathetic to the plight of people with HIV: be careful, very careful. You may be happily married now, but you could very easily wind up divorced and banging some fox that you met in a bar and wind up with a surprise 3 months later.

[Croc]

Croc, look at your post again. Does it make any sense?

You're right...I worded that very poorly. I don't feel bad for people who have it who got it through risky behavior. I do feel bad for the people who get it, but not through risky behavior. I.e.: someone who sleeps around a lot and gets it...don't feel bad. Their spouse/partner who gets it from them but was not sleeping around...yea feel bad for them.

[ocnblu]

Agreed.

[The O.C.]

Does anyone else find it kind of "funny" that "AIDS" never appeared until just recently? (Like what, the early 80's?)

It's also interesting that NO ONE ever dies of "AIDS".......they die of things like pneumonia and other things supposedly "brought on" by the presence of the HIV infection.....

There are those out there (I'm not necessarily one....just inviting interesting conversation) that "AIDS" is a more-or-less fictional creation by the drug and medical companies to describe a general weakening of the immune system. Look at how much money current "AIDS" sufferers spend on drugs to keep them healthy. AND, they ARE staying healthy....most living long and fruitful lives.....spending god knows how much money each year on drugs and health care.....to the drug and medical companies.....

Why do you think the impovershed countries on the African continent have such high rates of "AIDS?" Do you think it's because of all the unprotected sex they are having?? Well, they've been doing that supposedly for centuries.....why just now would "AIDS" take such a toll?

Those poor people are dying because of malnutrition and disease. It's only natural that living conditions such as they ones they face would cause an eventual weakening of the immune system in those people.....look at the unsafe and unclean conditions they live in. Someone just decided to start calling it "AIDS."

Just an interesting thought.....had a friend that spelled out his "theory" some time ago....and while I don't know if I subscribe to it (I have friends that are "HIV positive") it does bring one to thinking......

Remember....no one "knew" about it before say 1980.......

[CARBIZ]

The actual virus was not found until 1984, I believe; however, the British have gone back through military records (now that they know what to look for!) and traced the virus through tissue samples to the late 1950s. It is believed that sailors stationed in Morroco (? its' late and I don't have time to look it up) brought it to England after visiting brothels there.

Having said that, there is also another train of thought that the SIV (Siminian version of HIV) had crossed the human-primate barrier before, but that it never spread because the general health of the human population had been better during earlier incursions.

For sure the entire thing is nutrional-based. There is a strong argument that if one was to completely purge oneself of toxins (or not eat anything that was not readily available 10,000 years ago, as one pharmacologist said to me), many of these modern "diseases" would go away on their own.

I am of the opinion that cancer and AIDS are cousins. THey are both break downs of the immunity system. A cure for AIDS may point to a cure for cancer and vice versa. In any event, so-called lifestyle choices are made every day. Whether one had a promiscuous past, or whether one chooses to eat buritos for breakfast, or smoke a pack a day, or not floss properly or drive too fast or drive a smog-spewing, gas guzzling SUV - we are all guilty of making bad calls in our lives.

For us old-timers who lived in the pre-AIDS time, the maelstrom of the disease in the late '80s took everyone by surprise. To the younger generation coming up who may be tired of the safe sex "propoganda," or who think it won't happen to them, or who believe a few pills will make it go away, think again.

What's the phrase: he who hath no sin can cast the first stone? [With apologies to the Good Book!]

[the_yellow_dart]

I'm kind of surprised that Russia is higher than most of Europe as well. Any theories behind that?

Edited January 10, 2007 by the_yellow_dart

[Paolino]

Why do you say that? Just curious. I didn't realize that there would be much in the way of regional differences. The son of a Sicilian family my parents know died of it, but he and the people he hung around with were shooting up (nauseating to think about it) and that they were making suspicious trips up toward Milan...evidently to get their stuff. The family was, by relative standards, well-heeled.

So, from the map, it looks like Italy and Spain are the randiest countries in Western Europe.

Also, I am surprised Brazil is that low...

In Sicilia the HIV rate is extremely high... there are machines for preservativi (condoms) EVERYWHERE... on the streets, in public bathrooms, etc. They're trying very hard to reduce the spreading.

[Enzora]

You're right...I worded that very poorly. I don't feel bad for people who have it who got it through risky behavior. I do feel bad for the people who get it, but not through risky behavior. I.e.: someone who sleeps around a lot and gets it...don't feel bad. Their spouse/partner who gets it from them but was not sleeping around...yea feel bad for them.

Except that a lot of groups are at a much higher risk not due to the fact that they are more promiscuous than others, but because often the pool of potential mates is a lot smaller. I.E. inner city blacks and gays, compared to white heterosexuals in America. In other words, even if they're all equally promiscuous, a white heterosexual is statistically less likely to get AIDS than their counterparts in other demographics. Still, in any case, the need to act responsibly is important. Just some food for thought.

[Dsuupr]

Note the entire Middle Eastern region has the lowest AIDs rate. Muslim states are not so tolerant of sexual infidelity. Food for thought.

Like other issues, this is one that can be hidden either by the State itself, or the people. Places that tend to be extreme in anything tend to hide things that shame them.

[Sixty8panther]

Wow... Slovakia is in the green, litteraly.

I guess people in the home country know how to wear a raincoat!

------------

T1GHT WH!P$ car club is in full effect!

Edited January 10, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[the_yellow_dart]

Wow... Slovakia is in the green, litteraly.

I guess people in the home country know how to wear a raincoat!

------------

T1GHT WH!P$ car club is in full effect!

I don't think it really has anything to do with "raincoats". Eastern Europe is its' own birth control. The "architecture", the ugly people. I mean, I don't even think a Slovakian could get laid unless he drove some tight whip like a '68 Camaro or something...

:AH-HA_wink:

[ShadowDog]

I'm kind of surprised that Russia is higher than most of Europe as well. Any theories behind that?

Russia has an extremely high rate of prostitution, where the mafia and general underground are rampant. Why, even knowing personally what it was like, in 1995 we had dinner among a group of a couple dozen, well dressed, shaven-head mafia members who told the house band to stop playing their crap and more of what they usually liked. Not long after, women came, sat in laps, drank, smoked, laughed, etc. On my way up to my room, I held the elevator for one gentleman with a girl in each arm. I faced the door while he kissed them and said how much he loved them, then got out and rustled them off to his room.

I thought my story was unique when I told the others at the party after the next day. Nearly half of the entire group (14 of us) had a similar story. What we didn't know was that this was practically a nightly affair, and not only at this particular hotel, but all over Moskow.

It doesn't surprise me after just looking around at their night life and current state of the free-will economy where the rich got richer while the poor became poorer, and the democratic nature of the new-country was just great for criminal organizations, including prostitution rings which grew at astounding rates due to the amount of money being made, and when you put diseases next to money ...well, you get the picture.

Edited January 12, 2007 by ShadowDog

[Cadillacfan]

Agreed, but the chart says "Adult HIV Prevalance". I'm guessing that excludes minors.

No. I understand. The chart doesn't give a specific age range for adults though. AIDS in Africa has been around longer then most of us on this board and a lot of us are now considered adults. So I think that while a chunk of people on this chart could've recieved this through sexual intercourse, you can expect a lot more received it through childbirth.

Also.. again regarding the comment that sciguy had made declaring he had no sympathy to people with AIDS, I'm still in disagreement with that since the majority of people in Africa including adults clearly don't have the proper education nor the means to recieve information on how to prevent from getting AIDS. I think that blanket statement is still unfair in regards to people living in third world, or to be more politically correct, "developing" countries.

Though, he's still entitled to have that opinion.

[CARBIZ]

Eastern Europe has enjoyed a very low incidence of HIV infection because it once was a closed society, but lately the prostitution industry and porno industry has exploded in Romania and other countries. Someone paid $100 US dollars can live for a few weeks over there.

HIV is not something that you suddenly wake up with one day. Even with our modern techniques, it still requires 3 months of incubation before the tests will come back positive. Unless someone has a lot of sudden, wierd symptoms (recurrent "flu fever," night sweats, loss of energy, for examples), most people wouldn't bother to be tested for the virus - especially the poor who don't want to have to pay for the test.

The U.S. and Canada only got a handle on things at the outset because a lot of free, anonymous testing facilities were set up, often despite the strong opposition of some right-wing groups, and people were tested early on.

[Croc]

Except that a lot of groups are at a much higher risk not due to the fact that they are more promiscuous than others, but because often the pool of potential mates is a lot smaller. I.E. inner city blacks and gays, compared to white heterosexuals in America. In other words, even if they're all equally promiscuous, a white heterosexual is statistically less likely to get AIDS than their counterparts in other demographics. Still, in any case, the need to act responsibly is important. Just some food for thought.

...do you realize that all of that makes this grand assumption that all white heterosexual males pursue white heterosexual females? This is 2007. People don't just date the girl or guy next door and the potential mates are a lot bigger than just putting together two of the same general demographic.

Also, who cares about "equally promiscuous"? If you're promiscuous at all you're at risk. Sucks that some demographics have higher odds of contracting HIV through identical levels of promiscuity, but you sleep around one day you're bound to get f@#ked.

[aaaantoine]

you sleep around one day you're bound to get f@#ked.

Quoted out of context for the sake of humor.