Pontiac G8/Holden Commodore Confirmed

[turbo200]

RWD Pontiac G8 all but Confirmed

Link to Original Article @ LeftLaneNews

Pontiac Grand Prix/G8 rendering courtesy of C&G Design Guild Member Frank Budzyn (NOS2006)

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," product development chief Bob Lutz told Australia's Drive today at the Detroit auto show, adding that the company could sell 50,000 G8s per year. "We are yet to officially announce it," he said."

Lutz let the cat out the bag, again. I love him. But I hope he understands what cosmetic changes to make [none at all, or a grille change that improves on the looks or at least keeps it as attractive as the current version]. I want to see a relevant grille change that points to Pontiac's future, not the same bubbly smooth twin kidney grille.

[ZL-1]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/gm-...rwd-pontiac-g8/

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," product development chief Bob Lutz told Australia's Drive today at the Detroit auto show, adding that the company could sell 50,000 G8s per year. "We are yet to officially announce it," he said."

Lutz let the cat out the bag, again. I love him. But I hope he understands what cosmetic changes to make [none at all, or a grille change that improves on the looks or at least keeps it as attractive as the current version]. I want to see a relevant grille change that points to Pontiac's future, not the same bubbly smooth twin kidney grille.

Interesting that the quote says Commodore SS = G8, which means V8 only.

EDIT (food for thought): Would it make sense to send a cheaper V6 version to the US as the NG G6?

Edited January 9, 2007 by ZL-1

[regfootball]

Interesting that the quote says Commodore SS = G8, which means V8 only.

EDIT (food for thought): Would it make sense to send a cheaper V6 version to the US as the NG G6?

we need both v8 and v6 here. and AWD too.

[Flybrian]

Fix parts of the interior, too.

[Carguy]

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2007/01/08/gm-...rwd-pontiac-g8/

"We are seriously planning to import a lot of Commodore SS sedans as Pontiac G8s," product development chief Bob Lutz told Australia's Drive today at the Detroit auto show, adding that the company could sell 50,000 G8s per year. "We are yet to officially announce it," he said."

Lutz let the cat out the bag, again. I love him. But I hope he understands what cosmetic changes to make [none at all, or a grille change that improves on the looks or at least keeps it as attractive as the current version]. I want to see a relevant grille change that points to Pontiac's future, not the same bubbly smooth twin kidney grille.

I could see a more DRAMATIC version of the twin kidney used on this new model!----HERES HOPEING!!

[ZL-1]

we need both v8 and v6 here. and AWD too.

So, should RWD/AWD V6 be called the G6, replacing the current FWd model? Edited January 9, 2007 by ZL-1

[red]

I hope they're not doing a badge job similar in vein to the previous GTO, if so, it appears GMNA has learned nothing.

Design is the ultimate seller. While nicely executed and clean-looking (with a nice interior to boot), this vehicle is stylistically dated and derivative - just like the previous GTO. GM needs to take time to inject some life into this design to make it a real Pontiac.

[turbo200]

i think it's derivative but not dated. I think it's more Pontiac than any Pontiac we have now; it's stealthy, aggressive, sporty. It's conservative by nature, but it's not the lines that make it that way, it's the shape and the friendly fascias; the lines are pure sports sedan, way sportier than the GTO could ever dream of being. GTO was dated upon arrival, but that's because it was based on a design from the mid 90's.

[Sixty8panther]

1. let's talk volume

2. AWD & a V6 will help with No. 1

3. Without No. 1 this car may halve a half life of the last GTO.

[Satty]

Ok, so if it sells its because its RWD but if it doesn't sell its because people do what the media tells them, so they ignore it because its domestic and RWD. Just want to make sure I have the story we'll be hearing in 5 years straight.

If they bring it here with just a slight nose job to add a Pontiac grill, it wont sell because, lets face it, the thing is bland and for a little more money you'll be able to get a CTS with the premium Cadillac badge. Keep the price realistic from the start (not like the GTO which needed huge incentives) and add a little styling flair and they'll be ok.

[Sixty8panther]

The 300C was offered wiht a v6 from the start.... which helped volume, and in the end

the charger and 300c proved that RWd does sell well if the car is marketed well.

I personally think a V6 in a 300, esp. the 2.7 is a waste of time since the HEMI offers

great fuel economy all things considered but some people can not have a V8, I think

it involves lack of testosterone/common sense in men &/or having your balls stored

in your wife's handbag!

[Intrepidation]

Here we go again...people will start complain that it doesn't look like a Pontiac or it's a badge job, yadda yadda. Seriously, the Holden is a very handsome car, it doesn't look Japanese like the G6 does. Be thankful we're getting a RWD sports sedan period, and that isn't ugly the Grand Prix. Who can define what a real Pontiac looks like these days anyway? The G6? The G5? Or maybe the Torrent?! The only thing I consider to be a real Pontiac is the Solstice, and the GTO. This would belong in that catagory because it fulfills the majot requirements: RWD, handsome, not Japanese looking, and sporty.

[Satty]

The 2.7 is there for fleet/volume purposes only. I hope GM doesn't try something similar. Raise the base price by $600 and give it a good base V6. Dont pull a Chrysler and make ABS/ESP optional on the base car either. Those two things will do most of the work AWD will do for a lot less, putting minds at ease (well minds that aren't reg's) and not forcing them to shell out $2k for an AWD system that they'll rarely need.

[Satty]

not Japanese looking, and sporty.

Um, its a couple of lines away from being a Diamante.

[Intrepidation]

Um, its a couple of lines away from being a Diamante.

Uh huh...right...

[titan]

Interesting that the quote says Commodore SS = G8, which means V8 only.

EDIT (food for thought): Would it make sense to send a cheaper V6 version to the US as the NG G6?

IMO, it makes sense to leave the G6 a seperate car. That said, the G8 should have a V6, with a V8 option.

[Flybrian]

I'd like to see a 3.6l VVT V6 with 260hp as the base with two V8s (350hp & 400hp) available.

GT - 260hp

GTP - 350hp

GXP - 400hp

GXP G8 tops out at around $38k. You'll sell every one of them.

[CSpec]

I don't really like the Holdens, but this will do as a stopgap. V8 only is fine since production is limited, and you might as well sell all you can at a higher pricepoint.

[ZL-1]

IMO, it makes sense to leave the G6 a seperate car. That said, the G8 should have a V6, with a V8 option.

Both cars are fairly close size-wise and the only thing the Commodore doesn't offer is a 4-cylinder. That could be covered by a smaller RWD car.

Pontiac doesn't need more that two sedans IMO.

[Northstar]

I think they should be all V8s. I'm sure the Charger with the Hemi sells about what they're targeting this for anyways, so it wouldn't make sense to sell cheaper versions if you can sell all of them with the V8 that you can produce.

[CSpec]

so it wouldn't make sense to sell cheaper versions if you can sell all of them with the V8 that you can produce.

Yes, exactly. It's the same thing as the Japanese voluntary export quotas of the 80s: volume was restricted, so they added toys and filled the quota with more expensive cars (higher profit). This actually ended up helping the Japanese producers in the long run, and it can help Pontiac here.

[BigPontiac]

Hopefully they give it a real name instead of the stupid "G8" moniker. Start the shift back to real names with the shift back to rear wheel drive.

Interesting how the Cadillac Escalade didn't get "alphabetized" during it's redesign...

Pick a way, names or numbers...not both. Consistency is a marvelous thing...it would almost imply a plan.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I hope they're not doing a badge job similar in vein to the previous GTO, if so, it appears GMNA has learned nothing.

Design is the ultimate seller. While nicely executed and clean-looking (with a nice interior to boot), this vehicle is stylistically dated and derivative - just like the previous GTO. GM needs to take time to inject some life into this design to make it a real Pontiac.

X2

If it's just a Commodore SS with an arrowhead in the grille, then it'll "fail" just like the GTO did.

(The quotes are because I don't think the GTO failed, but many do)

As far as volume, why not just the V8? Pontiac has already stated numerous times that 1) it is not a volume division (In the same way as Chevrolet or Cadillac) and it has stated that the G6 will be the big volume car in the future. 2) V8 only builds exclusitivity and limits imports, which will keep the UAW happy. It's also RWD, so it might not sell as well in the north.

Not to mention, Pontiac will also have the new Delta sized car to pick up volume as well.

[hyperv6]

I agree stop complaining about the styling as this is a damn fine car and will appeal to more than just Pontiac buyers. I have grown so tired of this looks like Pontiav ans this does not! It is time for Pontiac to find a new way to get more people into the show rooms and a sedan of this styling will do fine.

Second Volume is not a issue anymore as this is not a high volume car. Pontiac only plans on 30,000 a year and can move that up to 50,000 if they get a good price point on this car. Volum is for Chevy, Profit per unit is for Buick and Pontiac now.

They really are replacing the Bonneville and GP with this car and will have other lower priced RWD car in the future if approved. The V8 is all they need to worry about and only plan on selling this as a well optioned car so it is profitable. This is just going to be a premium mid range performance car and not a base taxi cab.

AWD will follow once they have it down under so we will just have to wait till they get it. Not a back breaker as it will sell in the minority.

I could see a V6 being added later and if gas prices climb. It would be the 300 HP V6 and would make a nice car just under the CTS.

As for the name I don't like the G8 number and I wish they would go with a new name altogehter. Any new car will carry the baggage good and bad of the cars form the past and will make it more difficult to market. A new name will keep the old time Pontiac people from comparing and complaining and it will bring new buyers in that will not compare a new Bonneville to the 83 Lemans base Bonneville that their father drove.

If they had to go with a number I wish it was something like XP400 as this was the name Pontiac used on several show cars. It give them their number but with some Pontiac heritage.

The bottom line this is a great car and if it is marketed well it should sell. Pontiacs largest problem has been marketing. Sell it as a high quality performance car as that is what it is.

Make it cool to own a Pontiac again. But this time do it with out the cheesey graphics and plastic bolt on that are so dated today. Their time has past and it is time for a new performance image.

The GTO failed in many more area's than just styling. Marketing, the dealers over pricing them, it was a high priced coupe and brought out just as the new Mustang entered the market. To only blaime styling it so short sighted.

Keep in mind GM wants this to sell well just as Holden does. Even though this is the best selling car in Austrailia it's sales are at it's lowest in years due to Japanize imports. The export of this car will increase Holdens production and keep them viable and more profitable. There is more than just Pontiac riding here Holden needs this to sell too.

Edited January 9, 2007 by hyperv6

[regfootball]

So, should RWD/AWD V6 be called the G6, replacing the current FWd model?

the g6 has 4 and 6 cylinder engines

the mazda 6 has four and 6 cylinder engines

s0, NO.

[regfootball]

The 2.7 is there for fleet/volume purposes only. I hope GM doesn't try something similar. Raise the base price by $600 and give it a good base V6. Dont pull a Chrysler and make ABS/ESP optional on the base car either. Those two things will do most of the work AWD will do for a lot less, putting minds at ease (well minds that aren't reg's) and not forcing them to shell out $2k for an AWD system that they'll rarely need.

sorry, you need the AWD. RWD alone doesn't cut it. It has nothing to do with easing my mind, it has everything to do with people in my climate NOT BUYING RWD only cars.

ESP is not a substitue for weight over drive wheels. No ESP will help a RWD car up an icy inclined driveway to get into your garage. People want to get their car into their garage. They want to move quickly away from stoplights in icy pavement. For buyers there is no electronic substitute for gravity on drive wheels. END OF DISCUSSION.

i.e. I, and zillions of others, do not put this car on my shopping list unless I can have AWD. Its the same thing with a Trailblazer. I have no interest in a trailblazer unless i can get AWD. Why do you suppose the bmw's, mercedes, G and M inifitis, Lexus GS/IS, etc. , cadillacs, all offer the AWD? Why does the 300 offer AWD?

you want Pontiac dealers to actually be able to sell cars, right?

People don't make car payments on cars unless they can drive them all year round.

Edited January 10, 2007 by regfootball

[regfootball]

I'd like to see a 3.6l VVT V6 with 260hp as the base with two V8s (350hp & 400hp) available.

GT - 260hp

GTP - 350hp

GXP - 400hp

GXP G8 tops out at around $38k. You'll sell every one of them.

what are your interior beefs? i mean, i know its missing about 14 dash vents compared to the last Bonneville, but man, the Commodore's interior is pretty hands down better than anything GM already offers.

This car needs to offer the 3.6 v6. either or both the 260hp version and the 300hp di version in additon to the v8's. The 300hp v6 would be all I need.

Edited January 10, 2007 by regfootball

[keyzi747]

They were hoping that the GTO would sell because it was rear drive with a v8. Guess what? It didn't sell, and guess what else? This new G8 is not going to sell either, and for the same same reason as the GTO. Though attractive cars, they're as bland as a bar of soap. Pontiac needs strong, in-your-face designs. Not someone else's design with Pontiac's signature grill.

Edited January 10, 2007 by keyzi747

[paulvdb]

Both cars are fairly close size-wise and the only thing the Commodore doesn't offer is a 4-cylinder. That could be covered by a smaller RWD car.

Pontiac doesn't need more that two sedans IMO.

No - these cars are VERY different. The G6 is a large-medium size car and the G8 is a large car. The new G8 has 4 inches more shoulder room and 2 inches more rear leg room. The G6 is probably a Camry/Accord competitor (being FWD) which it should remain. The G8 has quite a different position being marketed solely as a large V8 sports sedan. The photos are quite deceptive re size. If you think 300C type sizing externally and larger internally then you probably get a feel for the G8 size.

Keep in mind also the GM do NOT want to sell too many of these. The Holden plant couldn't build enough to meet demand if they also sold the V6 version (SV6 in Australia). This is only intended to get US guys used to RWD V8 cars again and bridge the gap before new plant mods are underway in Canada .

I also don't get the arguments from guys on these forums around what they would rather see in this car - GM has how many RWD sedans with a 6L V8 in it? (a little more than zero last time I checked). Surely this car has to be better than what you currently have. I don't get the comparisons to CTS either - this is not a CTS sized vehicle, nor does any regular CTS come with LS2.

[MisterMe]

Interesting that the quote says Commodore SS = G8, which means V8 only.

EDIT (food for thought): Would it make sense to send a cheaper V6 version to the US as the NG G6?

The G started with the Pontiac G6, which was Generation 6 of the Grand Am. It then morphed into a size designation with the G5 as a new Pontiac-version of the Cobalt, a smaller car than the G6. The G3 is a Pontiac version of the Chevy Aveo and smaller than the G5. The Matiz G2 is smaller still. The G8 will be larger than the G6. Could it also be Generation 8 of the Grand Prix? Long story short: The number following the G has nothing to do with the number of cylinders in the engine.

[Camino LS6]

Lutz says 50k/year. I see two problems with that: Holden's production capacity and the UAW.

What does he know that we don't which would make 50K possible?

[ketch]

Lutz says 50k/year. I see two problems with that: Holden's production capacity and the UAW.

What does he know that we don't which would make 50K possible?

Exactly. Lutz had the same pie in the sky projections for the Monaro->GTO. I say build it here with Pontiac's own design language, share factories with Impala and Camaro. 50k a year? Who's he kidding? Commit to RWD, and do it here. Chrysler did, Ford will.

[gm4life]

These were my photoshops (not bad for my first time. Also I took easy angles!). I used my Bonneville SLE/GXP kidneys and changed a few other things. Tell me what you think, I believe V6's will be important I think the models will be something like thise.

SE

3.6L VVT or 3.9L VVT

5spd auto.

GT

5.3L AFM V8

6spd auto, or 6spd stick

GXP

6.0L AFM V8

6spd auto, or 6spd stick

PS: Wont there first year or so be produced in Elizabeth and then moved to Canada were the current GP is build? Because then a RWD Impala will be built alongside of it right? Oh and name wise... BONNEVILLE! (Grand Prix won't be bad either cept that was most always until '90 when a 4door came it was only 2door)

Edited January 10, 2007 by gm4life

[daves87rs]

If it is the G8, then we can say bye bye to the GP.

This wouldn't be a surprise, considering most people consider the current Grand Prix to a somewhat fast rental car...

And if it does come-it's not going to come in a bunch of models-that would be a waste of time.

There are only going to come in a limited amount (unless they are also built here), so GM better bring the best or don't bother wasting the time....

Just going to wait to see..

[daves87rs]

These were my photoshops (not bad for my first time. Also I took easy angles!). I used my Bonneville SLE/GXP kidneys and changed a few other things. Tell me what you think, I believe V6's will be important I think the models will be something like thise.

SE

3.6L VVT or 3.9L VVT

5spd auto.

GT

5.3L AFM V8

6spd auto, or 6spd stick

GXP

6.0L AFM V8

6spd auto, or 6spd stick

PS: Wont there first year or so be produced in Elizabeth and then moved to Canada were the current GP is build? Because then a RWD Impala will be built alongside of it right? Oh and name wise... BONNEVILLE! (Grand Prix won't be bad either cept that was most always until '90 when a 4door came it was only 2door)

I do say that does look quite good.

[Mach5GTP]

This is my biggest problem w/ this car: it has the "universal rear end" that SOOOOO many new cars have and have had for a couple years now. Look around and you'll notice it: the vaguely-triangular taillights, the trunklid that cuts inward slightly, the bumper that slopes up from its rear face to the taillight panel, with the flat space ahead of the trunklid. If I had the time I would gets pics of all the cars that have this same exact rear-end formula, I'm sure they number in the dozens.

My other problem is the "name"- wasn't/isn't G8 a summit of the world's richest countries? WTF? Doesn't Infiniti have the G-names cornered already? It's just sad, such awesome car names from Pontiac are becoming history, literally.

I'm sure it'll be quite the mover in top-of-the-line trim. I just hope they take some time and spend some money to give it the little Pontiac details, like HUD, red dash lighting (driver-selectable colors anyone?)- maybe some old-school details like interior badging on the door panels and rear shelf. I'll probably get over my issues and want one eventually, like I did w/ the new GTO. What, it's not made anymore? CRAP!

[regfootball]

oh man someone please put a G6 GXP wing on the back of this thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

j/k

[hyperv6]

Lose the GTP as that name is going bye bye the top line is GXP.

BMW can sell RWD and AWD sports sedans and no one complains that they need FWD.

People in this class prefer RWD and know how to use it and are not afraid of it.

I am typing this in a near white out in the Lake Erie Snow Belt and know what real winter driving is about with RWD.

At this point everyone here has little to say of what Pontiac is doing is right and no one here can give a opinion of what will work.

So at this point I say let Lutz do what he wants and let the chips fall as they may. He may not hit them all out but he is right more times than wrong.

If he does nothing Pontiac dies, if he fails Pontiac dies and if this works and sells and Pontiac wins.

I don't see anyone here with any better ideas that GM can afford.

I think may will be suprised how a this sedan will out sell the GTO. There really is little market over 30K for coupes with no trunk and hard to reach back seats. Under 30K it is a easier sell.

Sedans sell at any price in any flavor.

[z28luvr01]

First off, Nice chop on the first page, NOS.

So with this news, where does this leave the "Pontiac mule" that was spotted in Australia a couple of weeks ago. IIRC, thegriffon said that car had different sheetmetal than the Commodore but looked less like a Pontiac than the Commodore would. Is that car still on? As a Pontiac?

Whatever it is, I'm very anxious to see the G8, as I'm readying a jump into something bigger with a stick in CY08. This and a CPO CTS are right now the top two contenders.

I'd say that if it is to slot in where the GP is, it'll need to offer a V6 to offer something in the GP's current price bracket. Flybrian's powertrain lineup would work very well IMO. Remember, this isn't a GTO where offering a non-V8 would tarnish the name at all. The G8 is a clean slate for Pontiac.

[jbartley]

well it sounds like this is going to be priced around 25k for the low end models which will do wonders for volume!

and i hope they give it an aggressive face. 90% of the ext/int is FINE! just MAKE THE FRONT AGGRESSIVE!

Edited January 10, 2007 by jbartley

[gm4life]

Thanks for the comment I am glad it wasn't that bad. Guys I think having a V6 and two V8's a big n lil one is KEY! Orginally the top dawg might only come over to our shores but when production is moved to Canada alongside the Impala I would assume a V6 would be optional right? Isn't the RWD Impala going to be assemblied in Canada too along side the G8/Grand Prix/Bonneville (whatever)? Or am I wrong in saying that orginal production will be in Elizabeth and then move to Canada? Is that right? Anyone know this for sure?

Thanks again, for the comments any help would be most apperciated.

[FunkyPig]

Lutz says 50k/year. I see two problems with that: Holden's production capacity and the UAW.

What does he know that we don't which would make 50K possible?

Sales of these cars in Australia have gone down a lot in recent years, and Holden has often played this down by implying they will make up the difference with increased exports. So 50k is very possible in my opinion.

Also... keep it V8 only initially, add V6 later if volume/market requires. V8 only will give it a nice muscle car image too.

Edited January 10, 2007 by FunkyPig

[Intrepidation]

This is my biggest problem w/ this car: it has the "universal rear end" that SOOOOO many new cars have and have had for a couple years now. Look around and you'll notice it: the vaguely-triangular taillights, the trunklid that cuts inward slightly, the bumper that slopes up from its rear face to the taillight panel, with the flat space ahead of the trunklid. If I had the time I would gets pics of all the cars that have this same exact rear-end formula, I'm sure they number in the dozens.

My other problem is the "name"- wasn't/isn't G8 a summit of the world's richest countries? WTF? Doesn't Infiniti have the G-names cornered already? It's just sad, such awesome car names from Pontiac are becoming history, literally.

I'm sure it'll be quite the mover in top-of-the-line trim. I just hope they take some time and spend some money to give it the little Pontiac details, like HUD, red dash lighting (driver-selectable colors anyone?)- maybe some old-school details like interior badging on the door panels and rear shelf. I'll probably get over my issues and want one eventually, like I did w/ the new GTO. What, it's not made anymore? CRAP!

I'd rather have this:

Than this ugly "Pontiac" butt:

Seriously people, not only is the Holden better looking, but Pontiac's "style" as been hideous as of late (G6 GXP). I'll take this "bland" (which I don't think it is), handsome car over anything else in the Pontiac lineup (save the Solstice)

[Northstar]

Why couldn't they sell 50k/year. Won't this be imported after the 2007 contract talks in September? Also, I see no reason why this won't sell 50k/year. It has a much nicer interior than the Charger, more power than the Hemi (except the SRT-8 ), and it looks better (IMO). This is basically a poor-man's last-gen BMW M5 or CTS-V.

[turbo200]

Dodgefan, I think you're preaching to the choir, as most people would 10 times prefer to have the Commodore look to the Gran Prix.

Anyways, there is clearly a lot of confusion and speculation as to what this car will be. Logically, one can deduce that low volume is a requirement, and 50k on the high end is possible, that being the case, a V6 is most likely out of the question. Throw a V6 into the mix and you're looking at a car that could topple 300 volumes. A V8 only option would suit this car's stopgap status until the next G8/Gran Prix is ready. I am a fan of keeping the Gran Prix name alive, as I really don't think it's worthwhile to just discard names that have value, and this one has a lot of value. Grand Am was purely a rental car, but this name has some real meaning and image behind it. Pricing should be in the high twenties and no more than 31k for a basic but loaded model, with navigation as an option for $2000 more. It will be a hit, and complement the Pontiac lineup incredibly well.

[hunter]

I actually kinda like the rear of the Grand Prix GXP...but the G6 GXP is horrible

[ZL-1]

The number following the G has nothing to do with the number of cylinders in the engine.

I know it doesn't. I was just trying to introduce the issue of how many models does Pontiac need, and if what is currently called the G6 might be split between a smaller model and a larger Commodore-based model, from a perspective of differentiation from the FWD offerings from Chevy, Saturn, and both Japanese and European manufacturers. Edited January 10, 2007 by ZL-1

[Flybrian]

what are your interior beefs? i mean, i know its missing about 14 dash vents compared to the last Bonneville, but man, the Commodore's interior is pretty hands down better than anything GM already offers.

Hey. The last Bonneville only had twelve counting the rear vents. Get it straight!

*Better interior color combos. I know it looks especially bad just because its orange, but that much bright-cheap red, blue, or whatever would be equally bad. Break it up with stainless trim and two-toning of classier shades of red, blue, etc.

*Window switches are garbage. Relocate them to the door where they belong.

*Color-matched trim needs to flow onto the door panels. They look plain and empty without it.

*Dash binnicle is too Five-Hundredy. Don't know what can be done to that without changing everything around.

I know this is a foreign-market car and alot of my gripes have to do with it being easy-adaptable to the two markets where its mainly sold, but I for one would like to see a more dynamic, driver-oriented cockpit. In fact, all Pontiacs should have controls that wrap around the driver's seat (something very, very few cars do anymore) to give it that controlled, purposeful feel. Its also a boon for ergonomics. Even the current Grand Prix looks more driver-oriented and sporty than this dash due to its cant, especially if you take away the drilled pedals and scarring color scheme.

[usa1]

Great pictures, although from the front shot, it appears impossible to open the hood!

mark

[Dragon]

Dodgefan, I think you're preaching to the choir, as most people would 10 times prefer to have the Commodore look to the Gran Prix.

Anyways, there is clearly a lot of confusion and speculation as to what this car will be. Logically, one can deduce that low volume is a requirement, and 50k on the high end is possible, that being the case, a V6 is most likely out of the question. Throw a V6 into the mix and you're looking at a car that could topple 300 volumes. A V8 only option would suit this car's stopgap status until the next G8/Gran Prix is ready. I am a fan of keeping the Gran Prix name alive, as I really don't think it's worthwhile to just discard names that have value, and this one has a lot of value. Grand Am was purely a rental car, but this name has some real meaning and image behind it. Pricing should be in the high twenties and no more than 31k for a basic but loaded model, with navigation as an option for $2000 more. It will be a hit, and complement the Pontiac lineup incredibly well.

stopgap? I thought this WAS gonna be the next gen GP, not just a holdover.