GM and the Nazis

[heintz]

Interesting article in the January 7th edition if the San Francisco Chronicle. History is indeed a revelation.

Nazis rode to war on GM wheels.

And everyone makes mistakes!

[Cadillacfan]

Let us completely ignore Mercedes and VW though when it comes to bringing up Nazi ties. Need we remind this "journalist" that Volkswagen was an idea of Hitler and Mercedes gladly made vehicles for Germany during the war? No! Don't bring them up! They couldn't help it. GM is EVIL!!!!!

This is all after the fact. A lot of American companies were in Germany before and during WWII. Maybe the journalist also forgot that the true attrocities of the Nazi party (i.e. the holocaust) weren't revealed worldwide until near the end of the war when Allied forces marched into Europe.

BS article. Another GM hate piece. Poor journalism at its best.

[Dragon]

BMW made machines for the nazi's too. lets not forget Toyota, Komatsu, Nissan and Isuzu made trucks for the Japanese army, Mitsubishi and Kawasaki made missles.

$h! happens mistakes were made and hindsight is 20-20. Not to mention, GM's decision makers from back then are all dead or dying now.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Dragon

[AxelTheRed]

Not to mention that GM's factories in Germany were seized when the war started. They had no control over what was going on in those plants.

[Sixty8panther]

First off I guess the autor of this article wants VolkWagen to apologize AGAIN for its

role in WWII again, the KdF was after all the brainchild of Hitler and its development

was fueled with nazi propaganda.

Second: Henry Ford was a blatant anti-semetic & quite an ignorant guy. If anyone

of the big-three would have wanted to align himself politically & in terms of ideology

with the third reich it would be him.

Third: Even in 1944 we still only heard rumors of the holocaust and all the atrocities

commited by the Nazis, back in 1934 no one thought hitler was a REAL threat, let us

not forget that the money Hitler needed to build up the nazi party & the third reich

was loaned to him by JEWISH BANKERS who thought they'd make money on a crazy

but harmless lunatic & dictator. if anyone is to blame for WWII in europe it's them.

Fourth: Given the choice between Stalin & Hitler I'm glad we did not contribute to

that murdering, paranoid, criminal-turned tyrant's power. I alwayas find it interesting

how much we hear of the holocaust but the even more evil Stalin is barely spoken

about. how about Pol Pot?

Also let's not forget that Mitsubishi Zeros and other war machines made by the same

companies (Fugi Heavy indust: Subaru) that are now stuffing Camrys and Eclypses

down our throats were the first to ty to destroy & conquer the USA with the attack on

Pearl Harbor before Hitler ever made a move against us.

Why isn't Toyota & Honda trying to stop the genocide in Darfur right now?

What's the REAL political motivation behind this article????

[Satty]

Also let's not forget that Mitsubishi Zeros and other war machines made by the same

companies (Fugi Heavy indust: Subaru) that are now stuffing Camrys and Eclypses

down our throats were the first to ty to destroy & conquer the USA with the attack on

Pearl Harbor before Hitler ever made a move against us.

Why isn't Toyota & Honda trying to stop the genocide in Darfur right now?

Because their government isn't forcing them to. Do you really think that during WWII the Japanese government didn't force Mitsu, et al. to go into full scale war production?

[Sixty8panther]

One more thought:

$hit like this pisses me off so much for the fact taht the car hobby is

awsome in many ways but one of the best things abotu it is how it

brings people together. People of all races, religions, & of different

political, economic & social status enjoy cars and we are all on a

level playing field when the hobby is discussed.

I've sold car parts on ebay to places all over the world. once time

I sold K-car Imperial emblems to a guy in south Australia, Pontiac

emblems to France, Switzerland & Hungary, Impala emblems to a

girl in finland and buick parts to Saudi Arabia, a GM fanatic in Israel

bought a few Monte Carlo emblems off me while a guy in bahrain

needed parts for his Cadillac...

Cars are supposed to tear down walls not put up new ones.

Because their government isn't forcing them to. Do you really think that during WWII the Japanese government didn't force Mitsu, et al. to go into full scale war production?

Thanks capt. obvious.

And in the same way Opel had a gun to its head after 1938.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Sixty8panther

[carman21]

The SF Cron. hid stories on the holocaust and thought Hitler was by far the most effective leader of his day, notice the admiration these wack-job papers have for Castro and Chavez today. Chavez is a National Socialist(the Nazis were national socialists). Remember Hitler was elected by the people in a fair election,too.

[Satty]

I'd like to state that the article is stupid in about nine different ways.

[Sixty8panther]

I'd like to state that the article is stupid in about nine different ways.

elaborate please....

[Intrepidation]

Who gives a $h!? It happened 70 years ago. Every country and company makes mistakes. Europe, Russia, America, Japan, China. No one is perfect so get over it. Stop lamenting the past and get on with your lives.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Satty]

Mostly things that have already been pointed out in this thread and the othre thread about this article, and the VW Vortex thread which is linked to in the other article.

No company is going to turn down millions of dollars from their government. If they did, it may eliminate them from competing for government contracts and getting government favors in the future,bad business.

Put yourself in the position of the guy who headed Opel. A murderous tyrant takes over your country's government and wants what you've got. You do whatever the hell he says and dont let the highest of highs at GM know exactly whats going on because they might pull the plug and you wind up dead.

Basically, whoever wrote it just looked for something to write about to get his name out, cause a stir. Without looking at all of the circumstances of a situation, essentially finding out why things happened the way they did, you cannot write a complete, fair article.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Business is business....

No one can see the future.

I'm sure this article was developed for one purpose though; to try and take another knotch out of GM sales/position. And this author sounds like one of the best conspiracy theorists in the business. (He's even better than me, and that's a compliment)

If we can buy cars from Toyota after what Japan did, and cars from MB & VW after what happened there then we shouldn't have any problem buying GM vehicles after learning of this...

Too bad that probably won't be the case for MANY shallow americans. And it's pretty sad that our people hate our own companies so much that they have to sit and dig up stuff like this to put a dent in their success and credibility. What's next from the media??? "GM kills babies" ???

[Mr.Krinkle]

worth the time to read.

Ah, so GM alone wins the title "Hitler's Carmaker", not DaimlerChrysler or BMW, even though the Nazi regime actually held a considerable shareholding in both companies, and not Volkswagen, even though that one was actually started from scratch by the Nazi government.

All three of course also built vehicles, weapons, and material for the German war machine right up to 1945, which of course stands in stark contrast to the massive contribution made by General Motors to the Allied war effort, as the largest manufacturer in the free world at the time.

Plus, although GM's head, Alfred Sloan might have not been willing to walk away from millions of dollars in business from a country the U.S. was at peace with until 1941, at least he didn't publicly support and encourage Nazi ideology like other prominant Americans- such as Joseph P. Kennedy, Henry Ford, and Charles Lindberg.

Besides, if one doesn't wish to support "Hitler's Carmaker", what alternatives are there to GM? VW, DaimlerChrysler, and BMW would all have to be rejected out of hand, and the Japanese automakers don't exactly have much to stand on either. Toyota is an offshoot of the once-massive Toyoda concern, which was a huge manufacturer of military goods during the 1930's and 40's; Mitsubishi impressed American and British servicemen into slave labor in their factories and built the planes that attacked Pearl Harbor; Subaru was a major Japanese defense contractor; Suzuki was a major diversified manufacturer with military contracts during the Impereial expansion era, and Isuzu and Mazda are controlled by GM and Ford respectively.

I guess that leaves Honda (not founded until after the war), and Hyundai (which is South Korean) as the only automakers one can shop without showing support for a regime that was toppled 61 years ago.

...found that somewhere. makes sense to me.

if you want anymore of Edwins books: http://www.grandconspiracy.com/shop.php?k=...&mode=Books

evidentally ibm is in on it, too http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0213,black,33412,1.html

This is not breaking news nor is it worthy of anyones time to read. If its an attack on the auto industry well then

Japan and Germany should both have write ups. I heard Hitler wore nikes and used Crest toothpaste to brush his teeth.

Nah, but if you ever wondered how come the Nazis were dressed so snazzily read up on Hugo Boss.

Pure garbage plain and simple.

Toyoda Boshoku was merged into Toyota Motor Corporation during World War II and then spun off again after the war. “I didn’t make automotive parts during the war. I made airplane parts.” Says Ohno. He spent a year making brass pipes used to cool oil in airplanes. He was made Section Manager of final assembly in the main automobile factory in February 1945.

http://www.gembapantarei.com/2006/03/gemba...16_grandpa.html

who gives a $h!?

mitsubishi, too

A realistic and more pertinent comparison is that Mitsubishi became in imperial Japan what the Krupp steel and armaments corporation was to Germany: a fascist war machine. But whereas Krupp chief Alfried Krupp and 10 directors received three to 12 years imprisonment each in the 1947 Nuremberg trials for enslaving thousands, Mitsubishi has never even been fined.

The facts: Japan began invading China's north-eastern territory of Manchuria in 1931. It captured the national capital, then Nanking, in 1937, when in six weeks its soldiers slaughtered an estimated 300,000 Chinese, one of the worst single wartime atrocities in history. From the mid-1930s and especially after Pearl Harbor in 1941, Japan forced millions of Asian workers (and several thousand American and allied prisoners of war) to toil in slave-like conditions in mainland Japan and Asia.

another geraldo to detest and despise.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Mr.Krinkle

[A Horse With No Name]

One more thought:

$hit like this pisses me off so much for the fact taht the car hobby is

awsome in many ways but one of the best things abotu it is how it

brings people together. People of all races, religions, & of different

political, economic & social status enjoy cars and we are all on a

level playing field when the hobby is discussed.

I've sold car parts on ebay to places all over the world. once time

I sold K-car Imperial emblems to a guy in south Australia, Pontiac

emblems to France, Switzerland & Hungary, Impala emblems to a

girl in finland and buick parts to Saudi Arabia, a GM fanatic in Israel

bought a few Monte Carlo emblems off me while a guy in bahrain

needed parts for his Cadillac...

Cars are supposed to tear down walls not put up new ones.

Thanks capt. obvious.

And in the same way Opel had a gun to its head after 1938.

I like this approach to the hobby. Too many people talk $hit on the internet or in print and don't know what they are talking about.

Besides, no one has brought up the U.S. auto industry's role in building things like the B-24 liberator that put the Nazi's down forever.

Chris

[FAPTurbo]

This is written by the same piss-ant who wanted to challenge Wagoner to a debate in a Starbucks.

Screw him, he knows jack. Besides, most of his pictures consist of him wearing turtleneck shirts, so he shouldn't be listened to anyways.

Edited January 14, 2007 by Captainbooyah

[SS427]

Interesting article in the January 7th edition if the San Francisco Chronicle. History is indeed a revelation.

Nazis rode to war on GM wheels.

And everyone makes mistakes!

Well this makes sense Edwin Black is a writer for the New York Times (a newspaper with a stellar reputation for credibility NOT!) and this article is being printed in the San Fransisco Chronicle, this guy could have said George W. Bush financed Hitler and the Nazi's with our tax dollars and they would have printed it, the sad part is there is some fool out there that would believe it.

Edited January 17, 2007 by SS427

[SS427]

Who gives a $h!? It happened 70 years in the ago. Ever country and company makes mistakes. Europe, Russia, America, Japan, China. No one is perfect so get over it. Stop lamenting the past and get on with your lives.

Aahh, spoken like a true member of the youth of America, it does matter when clearly this gentleman is attempting a smear campaign on GM basically on the grounds that they happened to own Opel during the time Hitler ran Germany, but you are Dodgefan so that would not affect you right? Well what this guy is attempting to is like saying the Third Reich owns Daimler Chrysler (and that would include Dodge) right now and you guys are active participants in the Holocaust or didn't they teach you about that in what they pass off for school nowadays.

Edited January 17, 2007 by SS427

[Intrepidation]

Aahh, spoken like a true member of the youth of America, it does matter when clearly this gentleman is attempting a smear campaign on GM basically on the grounds that they happened to own Opel during the time Hitler ran Germany, but you are Dodgefan so that would not affect you right? Well what this guy is attempting to is like saying the Third Reich owns Daimler Chrysler (and that would include Dodge) right now and you guys are active participants in the Holocaust or didn't they teach you about that in what they pass off for school nowadays.

I know what the Holocaust is smartass. I know 5-6 million estimated Jews, gypseys and communists, and other assorted people who didn't fit Hitler's idea of the superior race will shot, gassed, and killed in other assorted and rather inhuman (especially to modern society) ways. Just like I know the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed far more innocent civilians than military. But what to do? Send a land invasion of Japan with an estimated 5 million troops and suffer heavy losses or test out an experimental weapon and avoid casualties to our own. So we drop one from the Enola Gay B-29 SuperFortress, drop a second one, Japan surrenders. But that's rambling about Japan and not the Third Reich. So guess what? I know plenty about WWII. Maybe if you removed your head from your own ass you'd understand that bringing this sort of thing up in the present, and trying to make a company or persons look bad because of what happened half a century ago is stupid. Holding grudges is stupid. Lamenting on past events is stupid (but let's not ever forget them). Making posts such as yours is stupid.

I'm not ignorant about the past as you obviously suggest. I know quite well what happened, WWII, before and beyond. Don't go making assumptions about people and their posts unless you know what what you're talking about, which clearly, you don't.

Edited January 17, 2007 by Dodgefan

[Mr.Krinkle]

I know what the Holocaust is smartass. I know 5-6 million estimated Jews, gypseys and communists, and other assorted people who didn't fit Hitler's idea of the superior race will shot, gassed, and killed in other assorted and rather inhuman (especially to modern society) ways. Just like I know the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima killed far more innocent civilians than military. But what to do? Send a land invasion of Japan with an estimated 5 million troops and suffer heavy losses or test out an experimental weapon and avoid casualties to our own. So we drop one from the Enola Gay B-29 SuperFortress, drop a second one, Japan surrenders. But that's rambling about Japan and not the Third Reich. So guess what? I know plenty about WWII. Maybe if you removed your head from your own ass you'd understand that bringing this sort of thing up in the present, and trying to make a company or persons look bad because of what happened half a century ago is stupid. Holding grudges is stupid. Lamenting on past events is stupid (but let's not ever forget them). Making posts such as yours is stupid.

I'm not ignorant about the past as you obviously suggest. I know quite well what happened, WWII, before and beyond. Don't go making assumptions about people and their posts unless you know what what you're talking about, which clearly, you don't.

Actually it was about 6 million Jews and 5 million more gypsies, homosexuals, cripples and others.

Across Europe it was about 50 million total dead. The low estimates place stalins purges at somewhere from 20/30 million up to 70 million. No one really knows.

[Mr.Krinkle]

See what this guy started.

Hey he looks like someone...no no, without the beard, thats him

one dog goes one way, the other dog goes the other way and you got this guy in the middle here saying whaddya want from me.

[Intrepidation]

Actually it was about 6 million Jews and 5 million more gypsies, homosexuals, cripples and others.

Across Europe it was about 50 million total dead. The low estimates place stalins purges at somewhere from 20/30 million up to 70 million. No one really knows.

Yeah, it varies from source to source.

...estimates generally place the total number of Holocaust victims at 9 to 11 million, though some estimates have been as high as 26 million

Like you said, know one knows for sure.

[Sixty8panther]

Someday in the not so distant future I bet one of Pol-Pot's relatives

will start producing cars. They'll be cheap looking and inferior

knockoffs of a 1997 Honda Civic but with a ugly waterfall grill. The

logo/emblems will look like a Onion is eating a pencil sharpener &

doing #2 on a triangle.

They'll call it a "Slaughter FU-666" and this goofy looking prick will

trade in his 2017 Camry-Solara-TRIPPLE-CAM in one a beige one.

[Intrepidation]

Someday in the not so distant future I bet one of Pol-Pot's relatives

will start producing cars. They'll be cheap looking and inferior

knockoffs of a 1997 Honda Civic but with a ugly waterfall grill. The

logo/emblems will look like a Onion is eating a pencil sharpener &

doing #2 on a triangle.

They'll call it a "Slaughter FU-666" and this goofy looking prick will

trade in his 2017 Camry-Solara-TRIPPLE-CAM in one a beige one.

That...was random.

[Screaming Trees]

That...was random.

To say the least.

It was something...I'm not sure exactly what, but it was something. By the way what does an onion eating a pencil sharpener doing a #2 on a triangle look like

[Sixty8panther]

Stoopsbuick:

People like this need to get a life... Everytime the good wholesome heroic import lines do something wrong it's hush-hush. But if the evil General Motors people do something or might be somehow related to something that happened wrong well they're just the scum of the earth! Let's not forget that Mitsubishi built a decent percentage of the aircraft that were in the Pearl Harbor attack.. But that's okay..they were just "misunderstood" right? I am getting so sick of hearing how wonderful and ethical everyone but the American car manufactuers are and it needs to stop.

That's my point.

You know who Pol-Pot was right? Cambodian equivelant of Hiitler. A manipulative, evil, power-hungry mass-murderer.

but someday justy like the Japanese, Cambodia just might make a car that gets exported here to the USA, someone

will buy it and at the same time preach about how evil GM.

As far as my ridiculous desription it will be very similar to many of today's Chinese car manufacturer's logos.

Look around on Google.