Toyota Padding sales?

[toesuf94]

Just arrived at the Ft. Lauderdale airport and I was stunned when I walked out onto the Emerald Isle lot of the National Rental Car Company...2007 Toyota Camlees and Toyota Avalons where my Impala's and Grand Prix's used to sit. How can Toyota spare such a hot commodity to the rental fleets? Interestingly, the Avalons were over next to the last few Buick Lucernes on the lot. Has anyone else on the boards here noticed this? The Camlee was joined by the Corolla S and many Avalons...(thankfully I was able to locate a G6 GT Coupe over in the corner so that I did not have to endure the Toyota POS's.

I know that these cars are just arriving on this lot because this is the third trip in a month to this same lot. Just curious if this is a trend all over or just a regional deal...love to hear from all of you out there to see if the cars are showing up all over the country - as this would verify my 'padding of the sales' idea.

P.S. - I hate Toyota...whenever I see one of them on the road I get angry - I do not do anything - not a vigilante...I just want to slap the owners some times.

[enzl]

Just arrived at the Ft. Lauderdale airport and I was stunned when I walked out onto the Emerald Isle lot of the National Rental Car Company...2007 Toyota Camlees and Toyota Avalons where my Impala's and Grand Prix's used to sit. How can Toyota spare such a hot commodity to the rental fleets? Interestingly, the Avalons were over next to the last few Buick Lucernes on the lot. Has anyone else on the boards here noticed this? The Camlee was joined by the Corolla S and many Avalons...(thankfully I was able to locate a G6 GT Coupe over in the corner so that I did not have to endure the Toyota POS's.

I know that these cars are just arriving on this lot because this is the third trip in a month to this same lot. Just curious if this is a trend all over or just a regional deal...love to hear from all of you out there to see if the cars are showing up all over the country - as this would verify my 'padding of the sales' idea.

P.S. - I hate Toyota...whenever I see one of them on the road I get angry - I do not do anything - not a vigilante...I just want to slap the owners some times.

By your logic, GM has been 'padding' it's sales for years, to the tune of 20-25% on average. Care to rethink your position?

Toyota is fleeting more than ever...which translates into approximately 5-10% across their carlines. Hyundai fleets 4 in 10 Sonatas....BFD

Here's an unsolicited suggestion: Use facts, not personal anecdotes...it makes your argument appear stronger. (Oh, and the idiotic Asian-speak destroys the rest of your minimal cred. I have a feeling many daily life events 'stun' you. Sorry to hear about that. Perhaps somebody should slap you occasionally?)

Edited December 28, 2006 by enzl

[Flybrian]

Fact is, you can rent anything if you really want to, but the number of import fleet cars is indeed stunning when you consider pundits always cite domestics as fleet-dump criminals. Sonata averages near 49-51% rental (not corporate) fleet. I remember a time when Mitsubishi dumped ~40-45% of its inventory into fleets. It showed, too. Badly.

I see more Avalons as rentals than LaCrosse/Lucerne rentals combined around here. Interestingly, the last time I rented, there were three Suzuki Forenzas next to two Altimas, a Murano, a G6, and a DTS in front of the neighborhood Enterprise.

[Satty]

I saw an Enterprise Fusion the other day, kinda made me sad. It was refrigerator white too, didn't look great since the chrome didn't stand out.

[toesuf94]

By your logic, GM has been 'padding' it's sales for years, to the tune of 20-25% on average. Care to rethink your position?

Toyota is fleeting more than ever...which translates into approximately 5-10% across their carlines. Hyundai fleets 4 in 10 Sonatas....BFD

Here's an unsolicited suggestion: Use facts, not personal anecdotes...it makes your argument appear stronger. (Oh, and the idiotic Asian-speak destroys the rest of your minimal cred. I have a feeling many daily life events 'stun' you. Sorry to hear about that. Perhaps somebody should slap you occasionally?)

I am sorry that I seemed to have pissed you off by some margin by the sound of your reply, so I hope that you shall forgive me. And I will drop the Camlee for ya, since it bothers you so.

Secondly, GM, Ford, DCX all dump a lot of slow selling items on rental fleets. Been that way for years. As such, why would there be 10-15 Camry's on a rental lot when they are supposedly selling all they can produce to retail customers? This is why I had asked folks out there if there were other people seeing this same Toyota infusion on other rental fleets. Fact: Everything that I read in the news and on the web is talking about how Toyota is trying to beat GM out of it's # 1 in sales by total number of vehicles sold in North America. Fact: they have already moved to # 2 ahead of Ford. Fact: Gm has moved away from fleet sales and is pushing retail sales, a move that has brought profits up and is helping GM gain strength in real sales at the cost to the total numbers of units moved. which leads to my Question: Has Toyota jumped into the void left by GM?

No idea why you took such offense to my original post as to suggest I needed slapped. So, instead of giving me a tutorial on how to write a post and to drop my cartoonish Asian pronouncment of Camry, why not answer some questions that actually address my post? In case you missed them: If Toyota is actually selling all they can make of the new Camry to RETAIL cleints, then why are they showing up in rental fleets? and Are others of you also seeing the Toyota Camry on rental fleets?

So, now that you can clearly see what my questions were without the fake Asian B.S., answer or address the questions. Otherwise ignore the post and move on.

[toesuf94]

Fact is, you can rent anything if you really want to, but the number of import fleet cars is indeed stunning when you consider pundits always cite domestics as fleet-dump criminals. Sonata averages near 49-51% rental (not corporate) fleet. I remember a time when Mitsubishi dumped ~40-45% of its inventory into fleets. It showed, too. Badly.

I see more Avalons as rentals than LaCrosse/Lucerne rentals combined around here. Interestingly, the last time I rented, there were three Suzuki Forenzas next to two Altimas, a Murano, a G6, and a DTS in front of the neighborhood Enterprise.

Yes, when I was in Pheonix last, I was stuck in an Altima. I hated that car from the moment I turned the key. The gas mileage was horrible for an 'economy car', the ride was bouncy and any stray wind really had you correcting the car. I felt like I was going to get killed in the thing. I was glad to get it back to the rental yard in one piece.

I guess my other question about these cars showing up en mass on fleets like this is resale value - a long Toyota tradition. Will this do for the Camry what it did to the Lesabre?

[Dsuupr]

In years past, when toyota ramped up their rental fleets, their cr reports lowered.

[Drew Dowdell]

By your logic, GM has been 'padding' it's sales for years, to the tune of 20-25% on average. Care to rethink your position?

Toyota is fleeting more than ever...which translates into approximately 5-10% across their carlines. Hyundai fleets 4 in 10 Sonatas....BFD

Here's an unsolicited suggestion: Use facts, not personal anecdotes...it makes your argument appear stronger. (Oh, and the idiotic Asian-speak destroys the rest of your minimal cred. I have a feeling many daily life events 'stun' you. Sorry to hear about that. Perhaps somebody should slap you occasionally?)

He did post this as a question. He asked the question if anyone else has noticed Camries being fleeted.

The point here is that GM admits that it fleets it's cars. Impala won Fleet COTY award twice in a row. We know this. We accept this.

Toyota on the other hand has been treating the new Camry as the second coming of Christ. With the Camry you get a police escort and a marching band procession with Richardo Montalban carrying the Motor Trend COTY trophy and telling you what a wise purchase you've made while you walk to your car. It's PR hype.

But if the car gets this much hype, why is it being fleeted.....apparently extensively?

[enzl]

He did post this as a question. He asked the question if anyone else has noticed Camries being fleeted.

The point here is that GM admits that it fleets it's cars. Impala won Fleet COTY award twice in a row. We know this. We accept this.

Toyota on the other hand has been treating the new Camry as the second coming of Christ. With the Camry you get a police escort and a marching band procession with Richardo Montalban carrying the Motor Trend COTY trophy and telling you what a wise purchase you've made while you walk to your car. It's PR hype.

But if the car gets this much hype, why is it being fleeted.....apparently extensively?

But I did answer him....

Approximately 10% of Toyota sales are fleet...that's still 50% less proportionately, on average, than GM.

Camrys are not sold instantaneously and production volume may dictate the sale, in volume, of parts of this volume. Generally, manufacturers will use fleet sales to regulate inventory, as well as for testing on specific supplier components, getting rid of poor option mixes or because a competitors withdrawal from the market (Ford Taurus, GM's cutback on fleet sales) creates less supply, thus higher fleet pricing for their product.

Just to be clear, this is a normal part of the business. I also suspect that the rental agencies have done research that indicates their customers may want Japanese vehicles available to them at the airport....There is nothing wrong with fleets, per se, it their overuse that damages residuals and destroys overall profitability.

If you're looking for cracks in Toyota's armour, this isn't the place. The new Tundra and the Texas plant will prove to be a problem, not a few Camrys in fleet use.

Toyota's marketing & PR should serve as a lesson to the Big 2.5. Perhaps a few lessons learned might help them. Criticizing the masses for following their message might appropriate, but why shouldn't Toyota crow about their accomplishments, even if we (as enthusiasts) know its BS?

[toesuf94]

I was not looking for any cracks in anyone's armor - and I freely admit that GM has fleets of cars in the rental arena...I even noted renting a Pontiac G6 GT...skipping over the Toyota offerings that were next to it in line. I was caught off guard by the Toyotas being offered en mass at a rental agency - when, as most of us note, that it is usually NOT the COTY you find at a rental yard. Usually you see a buick, or the Impala ( not a single one there by the way ) - I was just curious if others had noticed any Toyotas at rental agencies. That was the question that I had presented. I just find it unusual to find New Camrys on the lot when it is supposededly such a huge seller.

"Ricardo Montebon carrying the COTY trophy ahead of you as you walk to your car"...hillarious

[evok]

I was caught off guard by the Toyotas being offered en mass at a rental agency - when, as most of us note, that it is usually NOT the COTY you find at a rental yard.

No, you made a limited observation and thought to extrapolate that as a wider fact. Which as enzl has already pointed out is not the case.

That was the question that I had presented. I just find it unusual to find New Camrys on the lot when it is supposededly such a huge seller.

Need I remind you, your post was riddled with "P.S. - I hate Toyota...whenever I see one of them on the road I get angry - I do not do anything - not a vigilante...I just want to slap the owners some times." and "The Camlee" and "I did not have to endure the Toyota POS's."

Which I might add poisoned your question to any intelligent reader.

Edited December 29, 2006 by evok

[enzl]

No, you made a limited observation and extrapolated that as a wider fact. Which as enzl has already pointed out is not the case.

Need I remind you, your post was riddled with "P.S. - I hate Toyota...whenever I see one of them on the road I get angry - I do not do anything - not a vigilante...I just want to slap the owners some times." and "The Camlee" and "I did not have to endure the Toyota POS's."

Which I might add poisoned your question to any intelligent reader.

Thanks for the D, but this guy still thinks we haven't answered his question. He didn't even realize that he threatened to 'slap' Toyota owners in his own post.

Don't people know that anecdotal stories aren't established fact?

I noticed Toyotas being serviced in our repair department...doesn't that mean they all breakdown?

Nice to hear from you again, evok.

[evok]

Thanks for the D, but this guy still thinks we haven't answered his question. He didn't even realize that he threatened to 'slap' Toyota owners in his own post.

Nice to hear from you again, evok.

No problem - I had a long one in the works yesterday but was like why bother. But I just had to this morning after his last reply to your definitive reply on fleet sales in the industry.

To back up your earlier post - App. 10% of Camry sales are to Fleet. That equates to 40,000 vehicles per year.

This compares to about 60,000 - 70,000 Grand Prix that are sold to fleet this year alone or about 70% of the total production.

So in summary - fleet is a natural part of the automotive business and is not detrimental as as long as it is not reliant upon fleet for sales.

Don't people know that anecdotal stories aren't established fact?

I noticed Toyotas being serviced in our repair department...doesn't that mean they all breakdown?

LOL I don't know - Following that same logic the Universe revolves around the Earth but we know Galileo was proven to be correct after the Church accused him of being a heretic.

Edited December 29, 2006 by evok

[SoCalCTS]

Thanks for the D, but this guy still thinks we haven't answered his question. He didn't even realize that he threatened to 'slap' Toyota owners in his own post.

Don't people know that anecdotal stories aren't established fact?

I noticed Toyotas being serviced in our repair department...doesn't that mean they all breakdown?

Nice to hear from you again, evok.

Enzl, Do you know the difference between "wanting to do something" and "threatening to do something?" I don't think you do. Maybe you need an Eng-Rish lesson! Lighten up!

Here is a fact for you: The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan have outscored the Toyota Camry in initial quality.

Edited December 30, 2006 by SoCalCTS

[Satty]

Here is a fact for you: The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan have outscored the Toyota Camry in initial quality.

Yet mine uses oil, has lights that have burnt out in less than 12000 miles, has had the radio replaced 3 times and has the most pain in the ass clutch ever.

[enzl]

Enzl, Do you know the difference between "wanting to do something" and "threatening to do something?" I don't think you do. Maybe you need an Eng-Rish lesson! Lighten up!

Here is a fact for you: The Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan have outscored the Toyota Camry in initial quality.

Semantics aside (and, if you find racist stereotypes or pretend violence a good source of humor, that's your sad business), if you bothered to read the whole thread, I merely expressed an opinion, just like he was expressing himself.

These boards are read by adults and kids, alike. I'm of the opinion that most people here are capable of mature behaivior. My kid doesn't need to read that crap and I wouldn't employ someone who I knew felt that way. Dropping anonymous posts in a racist manner is a cowardly act, IMHO. If that's being 'too serious' for you, I'm fine with that.

BTW_I'm not trying to shine Toyota on. I find the Camry disappointing, and we own both a Chevrolet and Toyota store (& Ford, for that matter.)

Edited December 30, 2006 by enzl

[toesuf94]

evok: Thank you for the numbers. I appreciate the facts. Seriously.

I was merely trying to be a smart ass when pronouncing the car's name that way - sorry to have offended so many. With this - I appologize to all C & Ger's for my initial posts where I had made a racial nod toward the pronouncing of the word Camry. It was a stupid thing to do and it will not happen again in any posts that I make. It was juvenile and wrong. I am truly sorry.

My first post, though riddled with said complaints merely asked if other C & Gers had also noticed the cars on rental lots. I was surprised at the numbers of the Camrys at the location that I was at. Now, if had been 30 Jeep Commanders on that same lot - I would not have been the least bit suprised.

[enzl]

evok: Thank you for the numbers. I appreciate the facts. Seriously.

I was merely trying to be a smart ass when pronouncing the car's name that way - sorry to have offended so many. With this - I appologize to all C & Ger's for my initial posts where I had made a racial nod toward the pronouncing of the word Camry. It was a stupid thing to do and it will not happen again in any posts that I make. It was juvenile and wrong. I am truly sorry.

My first post, though riddled with said complaints merely asked if other C & Gers had also noticed the cars on rental lots. I was surprised at the numbers of the Camrys at the location that I was at. Now, if had been 30 Jeep Commanders on that same lot - I would not have been the least bit suprised.

Appreciated.

And accepted.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Toyota is definitely selling more into fleet.

The other day I noticed 8 new Toyotas on an Enterprise lot next to my local CompUSA. They hadn't even been rented yet (They were still in a vacant lot adjacent to the office and still had stickers)

I'm sure they won't make the same mistake that the domestics did, but I'm sure they'll walk the fine line and fleet as much as they can.

[gm4life]

I have noticed the exact same thing. Many rental cars with the bar code tag in the back window and the "E" gives it aways. I saw TONS of new Camry's more than I did G6's and Impalas!

[hdmax]

Thanks for the D, but this guy still thinks we haven't answered his question. He didn't even realize that he threatened to 'slap' Toyota owners in his own post.

Don't people know that anecdotal stories aren't established fact?

I noticed Toyotas being serviced in our repair department...doesn't that mean they all breakdown?

Nice to hear from you again, evok.

I guess you need to either learn how to read, or at least learn how to comprehend. He said, he felt like slapping, nowhere in his post did he theaten to slap anyone. Lightin up for crying out loud!

[enzl]

I guess you need to either learn how to read, or at least learn how to comprehend. He said, he felt like slapping, nowhere in his post did he theaten to slap anyone. Lightin up for crying out loud!

Happy New Year to you, too!

Get to at least 100 posts, then I'll pick on you too!

BTW-The OP has forgiven me already, big fella. How about lightening up?

[carman21]

Toyota includes Scion sales into Toyota car sales, thats is about as logical as Buick including Pontiac & GMC sales.

Edited January 3, 2007 by carman21

[aaaantoine]

Toyota includes Scion sales into Toyota car sales, thats is about as logical as Buick including Pontiac & GMC sales.

I mostly agree, but this sort of number bending has some precedence I believe.

For instance, how did General Motors list GEO sales numbers?

[zete]

I wish companies would split out fleet into at least two bins: corporate fleet and rental fleet. At my firm we can buy cars from GM as part of their fleet purchase. This is really a special kind of personal purchase. A rental fleet purchase, on the other hand, is totally different.

So, if Kia is pushing ~50% of their cars into rental fleets that's bad. If GM's fleet is 50/50 corporate and rental, then the numbers aren't as bad as some folks think (i.e., 12.5% rental and 12.5% corporate).

As for why we're seeing Toyotas at rental agencies, they're just filling a void. GM is getting out and the rental companies need cars. I'm sure they're looking around to find who can give them the best price for a specific size of car. Ironically, Toyota can leverage fleet sales to surpass GM in sales in 2007 and no one would bat an eye in the press, though they'd kill GM if they tried to keep #1 in a similar way.

Either way, too many rental sales can be deadly to resale. GM seems to have learned their lesson, which is why they sell fewer cars to rental fleets and also ensure they're not stripper models anymore, which made the cars look worse than they should have.

[corvette_dude729]

I am glad there was an apology for the original post, however I think it is important that an issue be brought up now. Does the fact that just because someone drives a Toyota product mean that they are a complete douche bag? My dad has a Camry and a few people on this site have Toyotas(and are still GM fans). Am I saying I love Toyota and am trying to stick up for them? Absolutely not. I dislike them just as much as most of you guys. I just feel it is not right to dislike someone and "feel like slappping" them just because they drive a Toyota or any other car for that matter.

It is immature and needs to stop.

Edited January 6, 2007 by corvette_dude729

[CARBIZ]

People who buy Toyotas are not douchebags; they just don't know any better. They are sheeple who believe every printed word of the media and can't think for themselves. I don't mind losing sales to Mazda or Honda, because at least they try to build market leading and innovative products. Toyota used to be like that, but since they've discovered the magic formula of appealing to the masses, they don't care any more.

Toyota can pad its sales, lie about horsepower numbers and get away with it. Good for them. WE deserve it.