Buick Announces Pricing for All New 2006 Lucerne

[Flybrian]

I do have to laugh at the "superchargers should be in Buicks because it doesn't present a premium image." First off, to knock off a George Jones song, Buick was premium before premium was cool. Second, what about years of Mercedes Kompressor cars? Third, a supercharger certainly does deliver more power than many V8s, depending on the two applications, of course. I could waste any of those pathetic Ford fullsizers in a s/c 3800 II car, even if they have V8s. Better yet, put the 4.0l Aurora V8 next to the blown 3800 II in the two cars in my family next to each other. Very similar output ratings (250vs240hp/260vs280lb-ft) in extremely similar cars. My Aurora delivers its power in a smoother, more controlled fashion and the engine really comes alive in midrange RPMs, yet I can barely chirp the tires on regular asphalt. However, the Bonneville will lay rubber down gladly and frequently if you accelerate like you would in most other cars. More of its power is quick and down low. It'll waste me 0-60 no doubt and probably up to 80, but it isn't as smooth in its delivery. When the blower kicks in over the n/a engine - say from 50-70 - its very punchy in a good way and perhaps to the point where it would be disconcerting to someone who normally drives an old TL or ES and simply isn't used to so much available power that's so ready to go without coaxing. As far as economy goes, my father gets better mileage than me - about 25-27 for him vs. 19-20 for me, mainly because he's not running on all eight like I am. Two different beasts for sure, but I wouldn't say one is 'better' than the other; merely depends on your taste. I've grown to appreciate the smoothness of the Aurora, but there are many times when I miss that raw surge of torque that comes in the Bonnie. Those are the days I steal my dad's car for a spin. :) In the end, people who forsake one type of engine for the other based solely on magazine reviews are missing out. And you can't judge DOHC or OHV engines by driving only one application. I drove a 2002 Camry with a DOHC V6 for awhile and, ye-God, are you serious? Doesn't make ALL DOHC plants bad; just that one.

[caddycruiser]

What are we talking here ? Do you have some inside knowledge ? High engineering knowledge. Or is this just extreme - not a V8 hatred ?

Buick has been all about V6 and forced induction V6 for 30 years. Right behind the word V6 the word Buick comes to mind. Then move on to turbo or supercharged, Buick is first to come to mind. When someone says Buick, Chevy LT1 powered V8 is the last thing that comes to mind, its infact forgetable.

The Buick Supercharged and Turboed V6's were every part of refined and sophisticated, in fact they were handing out lessons, free of charge.

Currently the Buick based V6 is only one upgrade away in new refinement from the LS2.

Now for what the real problem with the SC and any forced induction as well as extreme high output engines is they need high octane gas, not a very good sales point with todays GAS FIASCO.

[post="19849"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

No, really, I swear on it. At least a year or two ago, when the image of certain GM brands was in the auto news, there was a whole topic on how, in Buick's attempt to move up a class and be beside the likes of Lexus, that they realized they needed more "image", part of that being highly refined, and often upsized engines that were exceedingly powerful WITHOUT the need for such things as superchargers. The point being, brands like Lexus and BMW ALWAYS have stuck to naturally-aspirated powerplants, just focusing on making them highly powerful and refined.

Buick has been all about V6 and forced induction V6 for 30 years. Right behind the word V6 the word Buick comes to mind. Then move on to turbo or supercharged, Buick is first to come to mind. When someone says Buick, Chevy LT1 powered V8 is the last thing that comes to mind, its infact forgetable.

The Buick Supercharged and Turboed V6's were every part of refined and sophisticated, in fact they were handing out lessons, free of charge.

Yes, that's partly true. For a very long time, Buick has been associated with the forced induction V6, whether that be turbo- or super-charged. BUT, and just like I explained above, it really was an image that they wanted to move away from--going from having stealthy cars like the Regal GS that looked rather humdrum but could smoke lots of other cars, to having bolder, flashier cars, with more chrome, more leather, more wood, more refinement, etc., etc., and WITHOUT the forced induction anymore. The Lacrosse (3.8L S/C to 3.6L OHC), to some extent, and now moreso the Lucerne (3.8L S/C to 4.8L V8 OHC), are perfect examples of this.

I'm NOT making it up, as if I had the time to find some of them, I'd dig up the articles where this was mentioned or discussed in detail and post them.

[razoredge]

Was that around the same time as someone at Buick was quoted as sayng something to the effect of no more boy racers. Or was that earlier like the 90's relating to the GN. I think they should be proud of the SC38. It has made a great performance luxury car engine. I know everyone is sick of hearing it but that LSS of ours has just been a treat. Its not a perfect car, its not a ultra performance car, its sprung softer than it should be for that, its even a little to soft for our country roads but thats your luxury car for ya. The engine is smooth, quite and strong. It can be really fast when pushed. The first time I went to pass someone I nearly ran into the back of them, that how much the power came on that I was clearly not used to. Well Fly gave a really good review of the SC38 compared to a way more expensive "upscale" engine. He is more qualified too becasue I have not drivin a N* yet, well a test drive in Intrigue. As far as Im concerned and will remain to be of the opinion that most of the BS about the 38 is perception, its behind in an overdue intake and head upgrade but its not "cheap" and its not "primitive" and its not "unrefined". People just need to realize there is something about the character of that engine that works. The 3.9 is falling short and it the "refined" engine, yet it cant get the performance. Ill still question whether the 3.6 could run with the SC38 but will admit that not using high test is a huge bonus and I did like my drive with the engine [3.6] very much, its just not a B U I C K engine. Its a Austrailian Holden engine. :( The others are Cadillac and Chevy engines. Everything is going down the tubes :unsure:

[Flybrian]

Yes, that's partly true.  For a very long time, Buick has been associated with the forced induction V6, whether that be turbo- or super-charged.  BUT, and just like I explained above, it really was an image that they wanted to move away from--going from having stealthy cars like the Regal GS that looked rather humdrum but could smoke lots of other cars, to having bolder, flashier cars, with more chrome, more leather, more wood, more refinement, etc., etc., and WITHOUT the forced induction anymore.  The Lacrosse (3.8L S/C to 3.6L OHC), to some extent, and now moreso the Lucerne (3.8L S/C to 4.8L V8 OHC), are perfect examples of this.

I'm NOT making it up, as if I had the time to find some of them, I'd dig up the articles where this was mentioned or discussed in detail and post them.

[post="19922"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Oh, I don't think anyone's questioning you on that. If anyone else, well, they're not well-versed because there WAS an article mentioning that forced induction was something in the past.

Does make it the 'right' thing to do, though. I loathe it because its in keeping with this pathetic, emasculating trend of 'following' the competition. "Lexus puts this wood/this engine/this design into its vehicles; lets do it too!" is not the way to build a competitive product and will only force you to again sell your cars well below the competition to move them. This works very well for the Koreans whose cars had no desireable attributes (still don't, IMO) except they looked and felt a whole lot like Japanese cars, but for thousands less with longer warranties.

This is not the way for Americans to sell cars.

Yes, Buick needs to be sophisticated as the current trend indicates. Not like Lexus or BMW; but like Buick was long ago. Remember - Buick was 'premium' long before Toyota and BMW even sold cars in this country. But I don't see the problem in keep a handful of stealthly models in the spirit of Regal GS. Imagine a whole line of contemporary, classy, well-performing Buicks with two or three sleepers that really kicked some ass. I'm talking about keep that cool sophistication, but putting some real ooomph into it. Nothing flashy like V-Series or GXP, but subdued...call it the Ultra trim.

It would do very well and would work wonders to putting even the performance imports in their place.

[caddycruiser]

Oh, I don't think anyone's questioning you on that. If anyone else, well, they're not well-versed because there WAS an article mentioning that forced induction was something in the past.

Does make it the 'right' thing to do, though. I loathe it because its in keeping with this pathetic, emasculating trend of 'following' the competition. "Lexus puts this wood/this engine/this design into its vehicles; lets do it too!" is not the way to build a competitive product and will only force you to again sell your cars well below the competition to move them. This works very well for the Koreans whose cars had no desireable attributes (still don't, IMO) except they looked and felt a whole lot like Japanese cars, but for thousands less with longer warranties.

This is not the way for Americans to sell cars.

Yes, Buick needs to be sophisticated as the current trend indicates. Not like Lexus or BMW; but like Buick was long ago. Remember - Buick was 'premium' long before Toyota and BMW even sold cars in this country. But I don't see the problem in keep a handful of stealthly models in the spirit of Regal GS. Imagine a whole line of contemporary, classy, well-performing Buicks with two or three sleepers that really kicked some ass. I'm talking about keep that cool sophistication, but putting some real ooomph into it. Nothing flashy like V-Series or GXP, but subdued...call it the Ultra trim.

It would do very well and would work wonders to putting even the performance imports in their place.

[post="19963"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

EXCELLENT point, and all the more reason to show how Buick, among other brands, really need to go out on their own and stop trying to emulate what everyone else is doing.

In all honesty, I've never driven a 3.8L S/C or a Northstar, just a few regular 3.8L's.

ACTUALLY, now that I think of it, there were two others with that motor I tooled around in--a '98 Olds LSS and a '99 Buick LeSabre Custom, both cars of clients that I do detailing work for occasionally. STRANGELY, from all of my experiences, the one that had the strongest, seat of the pants, feel was the '99 LeSabre--that thing just flies, and I never could figure out how or why, since it's just a regular LTD model with the base suspension and base axle ratio. Had someone following me last time I was going to drop at off at the owners house and I even accidentally chirped the tires and lost them in the dust without really trying. Also strangely, the Intrigue would have to be the one that seemed to dog the most and feel the slowest when up to speed--again, WEIRD, because it should be the sportiest of all.

I think I REALLY need to go drive a S/C model, anything....

[Flybrian]

I think I REALLY need to go drive a S/C model, anything....

[post="20000"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

You should, its a hoot. Though the 'best' combination of power/weight would be a '97-'03 GTP coupe, the 'best' sleeper is the Regal GS.

Funny story - while doing some post-accident engine servicing, the dealer forgot to replace the belt to the supercharger. It took my father and I a week to figure it out because we never noticed the lack of power in our normal driving.

[titan]

Oh, I don't think anyone's questioning you on that. If anyone else, well, they're not well-versed because there WAS an article mentioning that forced induction was something in the past.

Does make it the 'right' thing to do, though. I loathe it because its in keeping with this pathetic, emasculating trend of 'following' the competition. "Lexus puts this wood/this engine/this design into its vehicles; lets do it too!" is not the way to build a competitive product and will only force you to again sell your cars well below the competition to move them. This works very well for the Koreans whose cars had no desireable attributes (still don't, IMO) except they looked and felt a whole lot like Japanese cars, but for thousands less with longer warranties.

This is not the way for Americans to sell cars.

Yes, Buick needs to be sophisticated as the current trend indicates. Not like Lexus or BMW; but like Buick was long ago. Remember - Buick was 'premium' long before Toyota and BMW even sold cars in this country. But I don't see the problem in keep a handful of stealthly models in the spirit of Regal GS. Imagine a whole line of contemporary, classy, well-performing Buicks with two or three sleepers that really kicked some ass. I'm talking about keep that cool sophistication, but putting some real ooomph into it. Nothing flashy like V-Series or GXP, but subdued...call it the Ultra trim.

It would do very well and would work wonders to putting even the performance imports in their place.

[post="19963"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I agree. And the thought of an Ultra Series wish quiet power and cool sophistication would compliment Caddy's more outrageous, screaming V-Series (not impede it). I don't like the idea of Buick following BMW or Lexus. I'd love for them them to truly compete, atleast with Lexus, but in it's uniquely American way; instead of "me too" product...

[Drew Dowdell]

A friend of mine had a beautiful pearl white 98 Riviera S/C. Even in a car that big the 3800SC did really well. It felt equally as fast as my CTS overall. My CTS is faster on the top end of the speedometer, but the Riv felt like it could take me on the lower end. My biggest complaint was the suspension... going from a CTS to a Riv in curvy western PA was scary for someone who drives as hard as I do. They are two very different style of cars. The CTS is great for carving up mountains and gets impatient with around town driving or turnpike cruising. It doen't like to be driven softly at all. It can be tiring on the PA Turnpike because of the stiffer suspension and the poor quality of the road. The Riv is great for long distance, high speed driving because of the soft suspension and is suprisingly good at around town because of it's loads of low end torque. If I had the budget, I'd have a Riv for my daily driver/long distance cruiser and a CTS-v for my weekend fun car.

[jry]

ya know, the general should pull the stops for just once on these engine designs and see what happens. let them breath. a little more fire in the plugs. i made just a few minor mods to my 03 bonne's 3800 series 2. it is smoother, has more pep-across the board, the tires squeel like flybrians SC bonneville (i had one too). had to bump the octane grade to 89 though. i am still contemplating an exhaust change to see what happens. lets all wait until we can drive one of these. we may just be delighted with the product.

[Flybrian]

The CTS is great for carving up mountains and gets impatient with around town driving or turnpike cruising. It doen't like to be driven softly at all. It can be tiring on the PA Turnpike because of the stiffer suspension and the poor quality of the road.

The Riv is great for long distance, high speed driving because of the soft suspension and is suprisingly good at around town because of it's loads of low end torque.

[post="20215"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

That brings to mind another aspect of this BMW-envy society we live in today that I loathe - the constant, unfettered demand of tighter handling, stiffer springs, and a need to 'chuckable' or whatever contrite buzzword the rags invent this week.

Myself, I like a smoother-riding boulevard cruiser. Not something nausea-inducing, but something comfortable for freeway driving.

[Paolino]

That brings to mind another aspect of this BMW-envy society we live in today that I loathe - the constant, unfettered demand of tighter handling, stiffer springs, and a need to 'chuckable' or whatever contrite buzzword the rags invent this week.

Myself, I like a smoother-riding boulevard cruiser. Not something nausea-inducing, but something comfortable for freeway driving.

[post="20392"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

AMEN to that!

I'm so sick of people driving like every road on the Earth is a freaking racetrack. Buick does a great job of being a "Boulevard Cruiser". They don't have the sportiness down, which I'm cool with--but they need it for competition because the world is obessed with knowing exactly how the car will handle on a 25mph exit ramp when they enter it at 90. <_<

[razoredge]

Thanks guys, the intermission from 38 bashing has warmed my bones. With Fly on the job I can sit back and relax, he puts everything together so much better. I must ask, you were all talking suspension, even though they perform well dont the BMW and say the CTS ride well too ? The soft ride is nice but at the same time on these pitchy somewhat rough country roads I have, the softness actually leads to moments of kaos. Nothing fearful but sometimes you wish the car would just settle down and get over it. This is all my GM cars from my 75/76 Delta 88's to the 99 "88" I had last year. Even the slightly stiffer 97 LSS suspension still allows tosses and dips and rises to cause a few aftershocks. The best GM suspension I currently have is the FE3/F41 I put in my 324,000 mile 90 Regency, its still a land yaht but more as I believe a luxury suspension should be. A good compromise. I do question many of the statements here about the NA SII in particular because that '99 I had really went well. They do take more throttle action but thats got something to do with engine management because the engines do pull strong and will also go like hell when put to or nearly to the floor. Somewhere in there, something is getting lost between the TPS, MAF, O2 sensors and the PCM and transmission kick down. I just cant believe an Intrigue wouldnt be pretty quick. My 91 Regal with the even older 170hp engine was extremely strong, hills did not faze it at all. Im afraid I cant say this for my 324,000 mile 165hp- 1990 Regency :) Its fine so long as its not in OD, but I know the SII is a whole nother animal. Im sure many, many, older and non performance crazed new cars buyers will be happy with the 38 and glad to have it if they are fimilar and didnt get bit in the arse by the plastic manifold fiasco on NA SII engines. This Lucerne may be a car that former Oldsmobile and Buick owners will find appealing. As for the Asian crowd Id like to say who cares but I guess we need to get their attention as well. I hope this Lucerne is a pleasure to drive and developes a high satisfaction rating. Edited September 27, 2005 by razoredge

[razoredge]

Paulie - Me do ramp at 90 in GM :angry:

[caddycruiser]

I just cant believe an Intrigue wouldnt be pretty quick.

[post="20433"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I'm telling you, there was a strange difference in the feel between the '99 Intrigue 3.8 and the '99 LeSabre 3.8--the LeSabre, somehow, seeming lighter and faster. A lot is probably due to the marshmallow feel of the Buick to begin with, so it just seems looser and easier rolling than the taut Intrigue. But, at the same time, the Buick also seemed to have more effectively spaced gear ratios too.

Don't get me wrong, the Intrigue is no slouch, and you certainly can do fairly quick launches in the car--it just still seems a bit slow, to me, overall.

Wouldn't keep me away from buying one, however--since the first time I rode and drove in "granny's" '99 Olds, I loved the thing, and even liked it better in some aspects than the '00 Chrysler 300M we had at one time. Taking that into consideration, a used Intrigue, most likely a '99 preferably with the newer 3.5L, has moved into the top spot of my "Cars to consider" list when buying time comes late next spring/early summer. Edited September 27, 2005 by caddycruiser

[caddycruiser]

Back to the Lucerne! http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[Paolino]

Paulie - Me do ramp at 90 in GM  :angry:

[post="20436"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

All except for you, Razor :P

[Paolino]

Back to the Lucerne! http://www.cheersandgears.com/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/AH-HA_wink.gif

[post="20474"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I really am happy that 1) there are an abudance of exterior colors, and 2), they are trying to at least introduce just a few more creative interior colors. It's only a matter of time before we see the Buick Flagship that comes out in a few years (fingers crossed), that will have some bold, exciting choices :)

[BuickEight]

I really am happy that 1) there are an abudance of exterior colors, and 2), they are trying to at least introduce just a few more creative interior colors.  It's only a matter of time before we see the Buick Flagship that comes out in a few years (fingers crossed), that will have some bold, exciting choices :)

[post="20490"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

It's as if they want to offer blue and burgandy interiors again.........but they just can't get themselves to do it. I guess a little blue is better than none. :( And if that tri-coat white is anything like the pearl white LeSabre I just saw, that Lucernce is going to be a damn sharp-looking car. :)

[CaddyXLR-V]

Paulie - Me do ramp at 90 in GM  :angry:

[post="20436"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

I did that in my Grand Prix. It actually held the road pretty good. Thats something I would never try that in my Malibu, it would have understeered into the wall.

[wildcat]

BuickEight: There's some shots of a gray Buick Lucerne, but did you see the photos of a white Lucerne on Buick's revamped website? As you predicted, it looks very nice!

[Drew Dowdell]

I was just in the 360 degree view on Buick.com. The press is going to pan this car for the blue/green LED displays. :-(